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https://twitter.com/ComputerLove_/status/1544535593039736832?s=20&t=SvOcbWu8Er9ZBUT7OoAxtA
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Jul 14, 2022 18:34
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 22:26 |
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imagine a brand new arcade where nothing is gross yet.
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Jul 14, 2022 20:57
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I mean it wasn’t a real arcade unless everything was sticky, there’s cigarette burns on every machine, and some old guy is trying to pick up a 10 year old boy by promising free games in his basement* *that may have just been my experience
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Jul 14, 2022 21:09
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Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:I mean it wasn’t a real arcade unless everything was sticky, there’s cigarette burns on every machine, and some old guy is trying to pick up a 10 year old boy by promising free games in his basement* Which games did he have? Seems like it's always Tron for some reason
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Jul 14, 2022 21:10
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 I’ve never heard of DataHand before. This is a completely bonkers thing.
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Jul 15, 2022 10:36
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Gonz posted:
You get a datahand, then you are commited to using only your hand.
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Jul 15, 2022 11:16
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Gonz posted:
It's insane and I could never learn it, but I'd I could then maybe it would gently caress up my hands less than normal keyboards or even ergonomic keyboards so. (The latter is often worse  )
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Jul 15, 2022 13:30
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most ergonomic keyboards are absolute garbage and worse for your body than using a plain qwerty keyboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqf6x4RfKDc
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Jul 15, 2022 13:42
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I tried a datahand in the 90s at a computer faire. It was weird and they were very expensive. There's been some people rolling their own with various projects for years. https://hackaday.com/2020/04/20/inputs-of-interest-the-differently-dexterous-datahand-directionalizes-digits/ That article features this lalboard and a typing demo: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMhOIgrdeE0 I'd need to have some pretty specific RSI to learn that but it's conceptually neat.
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Jul 15, 2022 13:53
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Rexxed posted:I tried a datahand in the 90s at a computer faire. It was weird and they were very expensive. There's been some people rolling their own with various projects for years. that looked like about 40wpm in that video.
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Jul 15, 2022 14:43
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Gonz posted:
quote:Some practice is required. However, eventual typing speedups are possible.[citation needed]
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Jul 15, 2022 15:07
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you gotta data-hand it to em.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:14
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You don't actually have to data hand it to them.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:51
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The data hand reminds me of chorded keyboards, which had an interesting parallel development to the QWERTY style keyboards for a while, yet have never really took off since they require a lot more work to learn, and you can't hunt and peck. Basically, one would press a combination of keys to create a character, the same way one can press different keys on a piano to make musical chords. The "Mother of all Demos" back in 1968 proposed that one hand would use the mouse, and the other a chorded keyboard, to avoid swapping.  Xerox Alto keyset, ca. 1973.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:05
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Because there are only ever 32 characters you ever need to type
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Jul 15, 2022 16:09
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Toph Bei Fong posted:The data hand reminds me of chorded keyboards, which had an interesting parallel development to the QWERTY style keyboards for a while, yet have never really took off since they require a lot more work to learn, and you can't hunt and peck. Basically, one would press a combination of keys to create a character, the same way one can press different keys on a piano to make musical chords. This is how stenographers work and why they have to go to school to practice for two years. Their chords don't type letters, they type sounds. When a stenographer reads back the transcription, they're not reading words, they're reading sounds.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:40
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Mantle posted:This is how stenographers work and why they have to go to school to practice for two years. Their chords don't type letters, they type sounds. When a stenographer reads back the transcription, they're not reading words, they're reading sounds. Phonemes. (You see a lot of "stenography is based on phonetics" but that would be stupid, it's based on phonemics, which I don't think is even a word  )
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Jul 15, 2022 16:44
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Gonz posted:
I remember reading about these in the (late) 90s and expecting everyone to switch over asap. My school still taught keyboarding on electric typewriters at the time.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:56
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Cojawfee posted:Because there are only ever 32 characters you ever need to type Referring to the Alto manual, the keyset was mapped to a different area of memory than the keyboard, so while you could presumably set it up to type characters (well, 32 of them), it seems more likely that individual keys and basic chords were assigned as commands like Copy/Paste. If you google for images of Alto keysets, you'll see plenty with little labels or pencil markings on the top indicating which key does which command. Imagine using one of these with Photoshop: you've got your mouse in your right hand, while your left hand is selecting your most common tools on the keyset. Yes, modern programs like Photoshop accomplish this with key bindings, but then you've got one hand operating a two-handed device, and it's especially bad if you're a split-keyboard weirdo like me. Unfortunately, Toph Bei Fong posted:never really took off since they require a lot more work to learn, and you can't hunt and peck God forbid anyone spend any time learning a tool they might spend hours a day using.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:00
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Pham Nuwen posted:God forbid anyone spend any time learning a tool they might spend hours a day using.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:11
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Yeah, a a dedicated Photoshop chord keyboard thingie would 100% end up as one of those things that in someone's head sounds like it would make perfect sense ("a dedicated device for the hotkeys that you use hundreds of times every day!") that ends up just taking desk space unused because the computer already comes with a keyboard that everyone has already learned to use properly. The gains brought by a dedicated device would be way too marginal to actually justify the effort of buying one and forcing yourself to actually use it over the regular keyboard that you'll end up reaching towards anyways.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:29
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Arsenic Lupin posted:God forbid anybody completely relearn a task they have committed to muscle memory for ... no apparent benefit (if not movement-disabled)? Most of us have been typing for years or decades, and asking us to learn a new input method better have a pretty hefty payoff. Like, learning to mouse had substantial rewards. Learning to 9key had rewards. Learning to use a keyset for the Xerox Alto had substantial rewards. Learning to use a chording keyboard? Not required by any device/OS, and wasn't a revolutionary improvement over just plain typing. I'm more or less in agreement with you here. That's basically the answer I've always given to Dvorak nerds: ah yeah sure let me put in the effort to learn all this poo poo which will completely gently caress me whenever I sit down at someone else's computer. At least with a split/ortholinear keyboard I can still type on a normal keyboard too. I think chording keyboards are neat, and it's easier for somebody to build one now than ever before, if they want one. Hell, I own a Twiddler 3 chording keyboard, although I've never become particularly proficient at it. My gripe is more vague and general, about how the entire computing world seems to have decided that a keyboard and a 2-button scrollwheel mouse are the only suitable inputs for a machine, and that all software must have a short and shallow learning curve. The software that breaks that rule is usually either very old (emacs) or very old and very specialized (all those custom terminal-based inventory systems at auto parts stores or whatever, where the experienced users absolutely loving fly... until corporate gets a bright idea and replaces them with lovely slow web interfaces). Anyway, I'll have a Baconator and a chocolate Frosty, please. barbecue at the folks posted:Yeah, a a dedicated Photoshop chord keyboard thingie would 100% end up as one of those things that in someone's head sounds like it would make perfect sense ("a dedicated device for the hotkeys that you use hundreds of times every day!") that ends up just taking desk space unused because the computer already comes with a keyboard that everyone has already learned to use properly. The gains brought by a dedicated device would be way too marginal to actually justify the effort of buying one and forcing yourself to actually use it over the regular keyboard that you'll end up reaching towards anyways. They're not chord keysets, but little programmable keypads are getting pretty popular. I think streamers were the first big users? I see them pretty frequently on Hackaday, like this one: https://hackaday.com/2022/06/11/odd-inputs-and-peculiar-peripherals-a-macropad-with-a-handy-layout-screen/
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Jul 15, 2022 17:32
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I know someone who committed to learning Dvorak and to her credit she now types faster than anyone else we know. Well. Except me. But she considers "impressive to anyone else" a pretty solid reason to switch! Though I think she went from 80 to 110, not like it was 40 to 200 or something you might expect from people trying to hype Dvorak
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Jul 15, 2022 17:46
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Pham Nuwen posted:
I'll take back some of what I said, I didn't know these are a thing and now I'm very interested! Thinking back on it, I used to work in a modern, computerized TV news studio and the directors relied on proprietary keypads with shortcuts for cameras, lights, the works. I think the problem isn't the idea of a separate device itself but that standardization brings its own rewards, mainly being able to buy a laptop from a store and getting instantly down to do whatever. You need to have some very specialized tasks (running an entire news show camera array, for example) to justify those extra devices and to justify developers putting in the hours to integrate them properly to the workflow.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:48
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Dr. Quarex posted:I know someone who committed to learning Dvorak and to her credit she now types faster than anyone else we know. Well. Except me. But she considers "impressive to anyone else" a pretty solid reason to switch! Though I think she went from 80 to 110, not like it was 40 to 200 or something you might expect from people trying to hype Dvorak I played with Dvorak a bit in uni and all the benefits were outweighed by getting screwed up by sitting at someone else's computer and by software that assumed the physical location of certain keys for shortcuts, like copy & paste. It could be different these days but I think the benefit is primarily ergonomic rather than speed.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:52
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I'm like the only person in my family that can no look type, and I'm also the fastest typer but it's a joke because I type terribly. Land of the touch typers the blind typer is king I guess.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:55
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Dr. Quarex posted:I know someone who committed to learning Dvorak and to her credit she now types faster than anyone else we know. Well. Except me. But she considers "impressive to anyone else" a pretty solid reason to switch! Though I think she went from 80 to 110, not like it was 40 to 200 or something you might expect from people trying to hype Dvorak I'm lucky I'm dumb enough that my brain is always slower than my fingers anyway. There have been very few times in my life that I had to type at super high speeds. I could type a sentence at 200 wpm and then spend a minute second guessing my grammar.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:55
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omfg LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7EBULRaOnA
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Jul 15, 2022 18:06
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That’s what I always lol about when I see “hackers” in movies, fingers flying and spewing out code. Here’s what coding actually looks like:
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Jul 15, 2022 18:07
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Dr. Quarex posted:I know someone who committed to learning Dvorak and to her credit she now types faster than anyone else we know. Well. Except me. But she considers "impressive to anyone else" a pretty solid reason to switch! Though I think she went from 80 to 110, not like it was 40 to 200 or something you might expect from people trying to hype Dvorak Sweevo posted:Nobody has ever used a dvorak keyboard to write anything except 10,000 word blog posts about how they use a dvorak keyboard
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Jul 15, 2022 18:09
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barbecue at the folks posted:I'll take back some of what I said, I didn't know these are a thing and now I'm very interested! It's incredibly easy to make something that acts like a keyboard or a mouse these days. Ten minutes with an Arduino and you're sending button presses as keys via USB. The hardest part is making a body for it, but 3d printing is at least making that more accessible. Now, the current parts crunch is making it a little harder to actually acquire the components, but otherwise we're in a pretty good time for custom input devices, despite my earlier doom-and-glooming about how lovely the mainstream hardware/software industry is. I think it's a combination of:
Back in the 80s, computers were simple as hell to interface with... just speak RS232 and you're off. Computers are a hell of a lot more complicated now, but the basic USB HID devices are now so standardized that libraries can abstract it away until the programmer is just saying "if pin 5 is low, send the string '42069 lol' to the host" and now you've got a little keypad to help automate your posting
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Jul 15, 2022 18:23
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Pham Nuwen posted:
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Jul 15, 2022 18:24
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I bet one could use one of those colored-light sampling key-pads that DJs use. (What's the name? My Googling isn't giving me a clear result.) I always wondered how musicians could manage a 5x5 or bigger array of sounds and know where they were, given that you have multiple sets of samples. KAOSS pad? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaoss_Pad
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Jul 15, 2022 18:29
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my obligatory post every few years on this topic: https://www.ergocanada.com/products/other/ergodex_dx1_input_system.html i still have it
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Jul 15, 2022 18:37
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Data Graham posted:That’s what I always lol about when I see “hackers” in movies, fingers flying and spewing out code. Here’s what coding actually looks like: I finally got around to watching the hour long look back of the film Hackers on the blu-ray the other day, and man it did more to reinforce my love of that stupid movie than I thought possible. So many shots that are waaaaay more complicated than I gave credit for, and it was great to hear Emmanuel Goldstein talk about it in such a positive light (I knew he worked on it but was always under the impression he hated the final product). They used the obvious trick of using a single keystroke to activate animations, but it just looks great. If anyone has the disc, I definitely recommend watching that extra.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:46
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No, more like an Ableton pad? Maybe they're just "pads".
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Jul 15, 2022 18:53
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Dr. Quarex posted:I know someone who committed to learning Dvorak and to her credit she now types faster than anyone else we know. Well. Except me. But she considers "impressive to anyone else" a pretty solid reason to switch! Though I think she went from 80 to 110, not like it was 40 to 200 or something you might expect from people trying to hype Dvorak Unless you're literally taking dictation, what's even the point of chasing wpm past... I don't know, 60? Other than bragging rights, I suppose. Even 50 is blazing fast compared to most non-computer touchers.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:13
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Arsenic Lupin posted:No, more like an Ableton pad? Maybe they're just "pads". Midi pads
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Jul 15, 2022 19:56
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Toph Bei Fong posted:The data hand reminds me of chorded keyboards, which had an interesting parallel development to the QWERTY style keyboards for a while, yet have never really took off since they require a lot more work to learn, and you can't hunt and peck. Basically, one would press a combination of keys to create a character, the same way one can press different keys on a piano to make musical chords. https://hackaday.com/2022/06/26/odd-inputs-and-peculiar-peripherals-chorded-keyset-recreates-engelbarts-vision/ There’s also a design for a Raspberry Pi Pico powered chorded keyboard based on the MicroWriter/CyKey, though again I have to wait on some parts to build mine. I have a lot of weird little keyboard cluttering my house. https://hackaday.com/2022/05/06/pico-chording-keyboard-is-simultaneously-vintage-and-new/
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Jul 15, 2022 19:57
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 22:26 |
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Midi pads
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Jul 15, 2022 20:03
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