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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


i am a moron posted:

Yup. Incidentally this ties into the another conversation happening in this thread and is why MBAs are such unrelenting douchebags. When your organization is completely subservient to shareholder value and arcane business processes, and you do fake-smart dumb poo poo like "apply LEAN management to credit card operations" you're going to have a bad time. Anyone with an MBA could regurgitate to you that the cost of hiring/retraining people is way more expensive than simply paying employees their due, but they're also too loving stupid to participate in or design systems that are anything but a capitalist meatgrinder.

edit: thanks, now this looks ridiculous. im leaving it.

Heh, whoops, I guess I'll repost it then. The threads are mostly on the same topic ATM which is why I double guessed myself.

Stuff I deleted above posted:

Let's be clear though that most of the time we're talking about upper management, VP or C level stuff.

Team managers are often powerless to do anything at all about this cycle and are just as frustrated by it. It's one of the reasons why I left management.

"Your whole division has a 3% nominal pay increase. If you want to give someone more than 3%, you have to give someone on your team less than 3%."

"You have to label your direct reports "Needs Improvement" "On Target" or "High Performer". If they are just "On Target" they can't get more than the nominal increase."

So, if I want to reward someone on my team more than baseline, I have to weaken the increase to everyone else. The only exception to that is if someone is getting a promotion, then more funds are allocated to do that. In order to get a promotion, you have to be High Performer for a few quarters with the right story behind it to justify it. Even then though, many positions don't have promotion paths beyond a certain point without going to either manager or architect (the non-management path and we only maintain like one per business line). So, once someone becomes a senior engineer, that's about it and there's virtually no way to give someone more than the nominal increase unless HR decides to re-evaluate market rates and a mass adjustment is approved.

Me: "This guy is really good and we'll be in a bad place if we lose him."
HR: "Well, he's already senior staff engineer and our data shows he's making a market rate."
Me: "He was clutch in getting these projects done this year that we really needed to do and everything went problem free, we need to keep him happy."
HR: "So he met expectations and did his job, our data shows he's making market rate so if you want to reward him more, allocate the funds for your direct reports so you can give him more.

Sigh, so I do what I can do and submit 4% for him and my other two people 2.5% (they've been there less than 6 months anyways.)

I get the report back after it goes through the CEO approvals and I see that my other two guys actually only got 2% and my high performer got 3%.

All of that on top of only being able to have a few high performers in a divisioin (shouldn't you want your whole team to be high performers?)

The stock market is a huge part of this. Number must go up this quarter, no matter what, especially if we promised it will go up to a specific level. The upper levels misjudged and can't hit the number while investing what they should in the workforce, well then it must come out of the workforce of course.

In general I even like where I work and am fairly well compensated (for at least my current knowledge level, if I don't get another bump in a year after I get my poo poo down, then there's a conversation to be had there.) They are bleeding people like mad in places though due to stuff like this.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jul 15, 2022

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wargames
Mar 16, 2008

official yospos cat censor

bull3964 posted:

I get the report back after it goes through the CEO approvals and I see that my other two guys actually only got 2% and my high performer got 3%.


with inflation the way it is a 3% bump is a slap in the face and would cause me to look else where, and guess what i did, then got a near 100% bump in pay.

Super-NintendoUser
Jan 16, 2004

COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES
Soiled Meat
When I was in management for a couple years they had a bunch of really nice management seminars. The best take away I had was identifying that people work differently than you do, resolve conflict differently, and approach problems differently. Being a good manager means you understand deal with people/tasks accordingly. The other thing was to learn to delegate, something engineers promoted to managers historical do poorly at.

One extremely valuable piece of advice I got from a friend that runs a much larger companies more important business division, "own the failures, share the victories". Meaning when something goes wrong, own it, and when your team does well, share it with them. I tried to apply this, and elevate my team. I hope it worked, and my team felt like I did that.

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

"I think if there’s one thing we can all agree on it’s that Penn State and Michigan both suck and are garbage and it’s hilarious Michigan fans are freaking out thinking this is their natty window when they can’t even beat a B12 team in the playoffs lmao"
you just reminded me of what may be actually decent advice:

https://www.manager-tools.com/manager-tools-basics

Good stuff for managers. You can listen to the podcasts, they also have training but I have 0 opinion on it as I've never used it.

Farking Bastage
Sep 22, 2007

Who dey think gonna beat dem Bengos!
The commission approved a 5% across the board increase thinking that would dissuade us from losing everyone to remote jobs. Our lead tech people are allowed to be remote, but no one else is. The people who made the loving rules aren't coming in, just us plebs. The parking lot under <government building> is maybe 20% occupied. We feel abandoned and shat upon.

Farking Bastage fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jul 15, 2022

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





Being a good manager is having your team take a love language test and applying it with a business eye except touch sorry you’re just gonna be miserable.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


GreenNight posted:

If anything you'll be protecting your land from southerners escaping the christofacist bloc.

Not to mention climate change heat and rising sea levels.

Farking Bastage posted:

Lemme tell ya something about internet access in the rural south. I have lived here ~10 miles from a state capital for over a decade. When I first moved in 5 meg DSL was all I could get. As a month ago, the best service I can manage to get is by using two bonded ATT Firstnet sims in a cradlepoint setup with an outdoor dome antenna. RSSI is barely -80. That's good for MAYBE 10 megs down and .5 up. Comcast won't even sniff at me without 200k for construction. I've gone through every possible avenue to get something decent for years. There subdivisions being built 5 miles away with FTTP, but this middle of nowhere rear end place I've found myself in is a black hole.

Starlink finally shipped this month and I'm seeing close to 100 with 30 up.

So, in my situation, starlink is a loving GODSEND.

America - where it's cheaper TO PUT SATELLITES INTO ORBIT than to loving pull cable. At least, so the telecoms claim.

Farking Bastage posted:

The commission approved a 5% across the board increase thinking that would dissuade us from losing everyone to remote jobs. Our lead tech people are allowed to be remote, but no one else is. The people who made the loving rules aren't coming in, just us plebs. The parking lot under <government building> is maybe 20% occupied. We feel abandoned and shat upon.

You reply with a chart showing inflation rates for the last year.
Not that it'll actually make a difference.

LochNessMonster
Feb 3, 2005

I need about three fitty


Farking Bastage posted:

We feel abandoned and shat upon.

That’s because you are. Only 1 thing you can do about it.

Diqnol
May 10, 2010

When I was hired, I was the 4th person on the team under our owner. That same day somebody their notice in. Until May, we were a 3 person team at which point we had New Hire. New Hire has had a slowish start but he’s getting there, just not there yet. Well, we lost another team member today for unspecified shady reasons, so back to a 3 man team again.

I’m already stressed to hell and this will increase my workload.

Piss, I say!

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


piss

Silly Newbie
Jul 25, 2007
How do I?

Darchangel posted:

Not to mention climate change heat and rising sea levels.

America - where it's cheaper TO PUT SATELLITES INTO ORBIT than to loving pull cable. At least, so the telecoms claim.

You reply with a chart showing inflation rates for the last year.
Not that it'll actually make a difference.

My company pulls cable for telecoms. This might actually be true, based on what we charge them and associated costs.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

guppy posted:

If you are at the point of sending your boss emails that say he doesn't know what he's talking about, he is not going to appreciate that, and the situation is not going to get better. If you're not already applying for new jobs, do it now.

It was less focused on him in particular and more of a "Nobody in this group seems to know what they are dealing with and it's clear nobody read any of the excerpts from the whitepaper that I linked y'all"
But yeah he def doesn't like being corrected and frequently sees fit to bring up his vast knowledge of Windows XP when he feels insecure about stuff.

Cyks
Mar 17, 2008

The trenches of IT can scar a muppet for life
Those of y’all who work in a smaller (50-100 employee business) how much do you pay for managed print services?

I went from a large enterprise with 1000s of printers where our cpp was less than a penny for b/w and my new job we are paying around $3000/mo for roughly 4000 print jobs over a dozen printers. A grand of that is for leasing 4 mfps but it still seems like a pretty high cost per page.

Cenodoxus
Mar 29, 2012

while [[ true ]] ; do
    pour()
done


Cyks posted:

Those of y’all who work in a smaller (50-100 employee business) how much do you pay for managed print services?

I went from a large enterprise with 1000s of printers where our cpp was less than a penny for b/w and my new job we are paying around $3000/mo for roughly 4000 print jobs over a dozen printers. A grand of that is for leasing 4 mfps but it still seems like a pretty high cost per page.

At that low of volume it's never going to look like a good deal on paper. You should also consider that printers are loving terrible - they're expensive, they break down in all sorts of fun ways, and parts and repairs are not cheap or easy. A managed print provider gets to handle most of that themselves, so for a small business with <100 employees that probably can't justify a dedicated printer person, it still comes in cheaper.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

Cyks posted:

Those of y’all who work in a smaller (50-100 employee business) how much do you pay for managed print services?

I went from a large enterprise with 1000s of printers where our cpp was less than a penny for b/w and my new job we are paying around $3000/mo for roughly 4000 print jobs over a dozen printers. A grand of that is for leasing 4 mfps but it still seems like a pretty high cost per page.

Managed print services aren't targeting small businesses so you're not likely to find anything reasonable.
Wait... are you talking about leasing on-site copiers or like managed print service software or what exactly? Because we had a Ricoh rep give us a decent deal on a single unit for the library admin office but we still had to spin up our own print server and whatnot.

Bonzo
Mar 11, 2004

Just like Mama used to make it!
I am crying watching this. Laughter and the fact that this is how working in enterprise software really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHW58D-_O64

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Bonzo posted:

I am crying watching this. Laughter and the fact that this is how working in enterprise software really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHW58D-_O64

I’m lollin because my 8 year old daughter was wearing the same O Mg joke shirt today :eng101:

Also because like 10 years ago I had to be in a promo video and case study for Cisco for their FlexPod thing with NetApp and it was so incredibly awkward. My company was an early adopter and we got a ton of free gear in return for being a reference. I cannot find any video or photos online anymore or I would link them because it was so hilarious. They would have us walk the data center floor then point at something and kneel down to examine it etc. Or just lean against the outside door of a cold aisle and cross our arms like it was an album cover. Sadly it seems to have been scrubbed from the internet.

I know this is just cool story bro / pics or it didn’t happen. I can at least find PDFs from the engagement if you look up Cisco FlexPod. But we had a whole professional film crew on-site for a week. Probably the most surreal event of my career.

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

"I think if there’s one thing we can all agree on it’s that Penn State and Michigan both suck and are garbage and it’s hilarious Michigan fans are freaking out thinking this is their natty window when they can’t even beat a B12 team in the playoffs lmao"
I totally believe it. I was recorded as part of several podcasts and hosted some kind of a customer interactive session during the pandemic about building chatbots that do operations stuff in Azure using Teams. Our bot worked but the demo was rear end and I sounded like a loving moron and the presentation was just poo poo. Luckily the company was sold so it’s all gone now

Hughmoris
Apr 21, 2007
Let's go to the abyss!

Bonzo posted:

I am crying watching this. Laughter and the fact that this is how working in enterprise software really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHW58D-_O64

I love that thousand yard stare.

That team has another great video to explain microservices.

Cenodoxus
Mar 29, 2012

while [[ true ]] ; do
    pour()
done


Bonzo posted:

I am crying watching this. Laughter and the fact that this is how working in enterprise software really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHW58D-_O64

Every tech presentation is either that or this:

https://twitter.com/_alanbsmith/status/1542557142137245697

uhhhhahhhhohahhh
Oct 9, 2012
Is it normal for US tech companies to do character references with people you worked with before? and background checks?

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

"I think if there’s one thing we can all agree on it’s that Penn State and Michigan both suck and are garbage and it’s hilarious Michigan fans are freaking out thinking this is their natty window when they can’t even beat a B12 team in the playoffs lmao"
background, yes. only places I still see doing reference checks are extremely janky companies that don't know "better". accepted wisdom is they are useless at best and a potential liability at worst

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

I dunno that I'd say it's accepted wisdom that reference checks are passe. As a (former, for now) people manager I still get calls when one of my old reports changes jobs. And they aren't just asking "did they work for you from X date to Y date".

AreWeDrunkYet
Jul 8, 2006

Reference checks happen, they're just not typical (at least in my experience). I always line a couple up just in case, but no one has ever said they got a call.

Background checks are standard if you're dealing with any restricted data. It mostly doesn't matter unless you have undisclosed felonies or are ignoring creditors.

AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jul 18, 2022

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


My job just does an e-mail reference check and maybe a call to one of them.

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

"I think if there’s one thing we can all agree on it’s that Penn State and Michigan both suck and are garbage and it’s hilarious Michigan fans are freaking out thinking this is their natty window when they can’t even beat a B12 team in the playoffs lmao"

Docjowles posted:

I dunno that I'd say it's accepted wisdom that reference checks are passe. As a (former, for now) people manager I still get calls when one of my old reports changes jobs. And they aren't just asking "did they work for you from X date to Y date".

I managed people for four years, I got one call once from an extremely garbage nonprofit startup doing some data stuff that my old report went to work for and the actual call was... questionable. Turns out the company sucked. I haven't even provided references in a decade for any position i've applied to/been offered.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
What are the implications of managing URL rewriting rules at the CDN level versus the reverse proxy/load balancer level?
Similarly, when should I opt for an HTTP redirect over server side URL rewriting?

Let’s use two examples:
- We need to redirect/rewrite example.com/app to example.com/app/
- we need to redirect/rewrite example.com/app/shoes/ to example.com/app/query_string&categorty=69420

Assume all internal content sends requests to the friendly URL.

For the second example I think it makes more sense to do a URL rewrite to preserve the friendly URL in the browser bar. We could do a redirect, but that means the user would see the ugly URL and you get links floating around in the wild that don’t correspond to your app design standards, which also limits your ability to change category numbers in the future without breaking existing links and loving your SEO.

For the first question, I think it makes more sense to do an HTTP redirect. Similarly, if you’re doing an HTTP redirect, it makes sense to do that at the CDN level, since the client needs to make a new HTTP request to the friendly URL anyways, and you don’t want the same request to do the CDN -> backend hop twice. Similarly, if app/ is what you’re using internally, it’s probably also what you want your customer to see.

That leaves the question of “where to do rewrites/redirects”, whether at the backend webserver (nginx/HAProxy/traefik/etc) or the CDN level. Again for redirects I think the highest level of abstraction makes the most sense.

For rewrites I’m not so sure. My inclination here is to offload the compute to the CDN where possible since they probably have more of it than you. This doesn’t matter much for the first example since you’re really trying to guard against typos. But for the second example you’re going to see the rewrite on every request to /app/shoes/, which is hopefully a high volume of requests. I guess at this point performance test the two and see if there’s a difference?

The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Jul 19, 2022

uhhhhahhhhohahhh
Oct 9, 2012
My previous job will only respond with the dates you worked there, so they wanted personal references as well. It's the HR for the US based parent company of the one I got hired by, which is still UK based, so don't know if I'll have anything to do with them afterwards.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


Cenodoxus posted:

Every tech presentation is either that or this:

https://twitter.com/_alanbsmith/status/1542557142137245697

So, our ticketing system is just JIRA, but it's named... Jarvis. Because Iron Man, of course.

uhhhhahhhhohahhh posted:

My previous job will only respond with the dates you worked there, so they wanted personal references as well. It's the HR for the US based parent company of the one I got hired by, which is still UK based, so don't know if I'll have anything to do with them afterwards.

As I understand it, it's illegal even in the US to ask or provide more than confirmation of employment/dates.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



I have heard that but I'm not aware of any laws to that effect. I think why some companies won't do more than that is they're worried about being blamed for giving a bad reference and being sued, even if it's frivolous it's a pain in the rear end.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




I'm here, enjoy work suckers ❤️

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

Is it really a vacation if you still have wifi or a cell signal?

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




Fair point.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





That looks awesome. Enjoy.

ChubbyThePhat
Dec 22, 2006

Who nico nico needs anyone else
drat that looks great. Enjoy not work.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





The Iron Rose posted:

What are the implications of managing URL rewriting rules at the CDN level versus the reverse proxy/load balancer level?

This is a really interesting question and I hope some people smarter than I take a crack at it.

I feel like I would lean more heavily into HTTP redirects at the CDN level, but I'm not sure if that's the only tool that I'd use. I'm not 100% sure on the SEO impacts you mentioned. Are they that significant? Is the double hop for internal users really that big of a deal, especially if it's going to a CDN? As a non-web person, I feel like URL rewrites obfuscate things that might make them harder to understand for the "average" tech later down the road. Maybe this isn't a concern? I also feel like I'd lean more towards HTTP redirects only again for troubleshooting/KISS reasons.

But again, not really an area I have expertise in (obviously, lol) and I'd love to hear more about it.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

The Iron Rose posted:

What are the implications of managing URL rewriting rules at the CDN level versus the reverse proxy/load balancer level?
Similarly, when should I opt for an HTTP redirect over server side URL rewriting?

Let use two examples:
- We need to redirect/rewrite example.com/app to example.com/app/
- we need to redirect/rewrite example.com/app/shoes/ to example.com/app/query_string&categorty=69420

Assume all internal content sends requests to the friendly URL.

For the second example I think it makes more sense to do a URL rewrite to preserve the friendly URL in the browser bar. We could do a redirect, but that means the user would see the ugly URL and you get links floating around in the wild that don’t correspond to your app design standards, which also limits your ability to change category numbers in the future without breaking existing links and loving yo your SEO.

For the first question, I think it makes more sense to do an HTTP redirect. Similarly, if you’re doing an HTTP redirect, it makes sense to do that at the CDN level, since the client needs to make a new HTTP request to the friendly URL anyways, and you don’t want the same request to do the CDN -> backend hop twice. Similarly, if app/ is what you’re using internally, it’s probably also what you want your customer to see.

That leaves the question of “where to do rewrites/redirects”, whether at the backend webserver (nginx/HAProxy/traefok/etc) or the CDN level. Again for redirects I think the highest level of abstraction makes the most sense.

For rewrites I’m not so sure. My inclination here is to offload the compute to the CDN where possible since they probably have more of it than you. This doesn’t matter much for the first example since you’re really trying to guard against typos. But for the second example you’re going to see the rewrite on every request to /app/shoes/, which is hopefully a high volume of requests. I guess at this point performance test the two and see if there’s a difference?

I think your logic for when to prefer rewrites and redirects is sound. In the "changing /butt to /butt/" case, the URL is actually wrong, and you want to inform the client of that. Whereas in the rewrite case you want the user to see a consistent, friendly URL and not know or care that your backend has shoes in category 69420.

I would lean toward doing the redirects/rewrites at origin unless load testing shows that is too burdensome. Keep in mind the CDN should be able to cache redirect responses, so the vast majority of requests that redirect from /butt to /butt/ will never hit origin. But the real reason I prefer doing this at origin is because most CDN's I've worked with are a pain in the rear end to configure. Akamai in particular was like clicking around a Windows 3.1 GUI. It was hard to even figure out the right way to write a config rule, and once you did, it could literally take hours for the change to roll out globally. Whereas at origin you can pvoision apache/nginx/whatever rules using the same tooling you use to deploy everything else in your environment. Then focus on making your pages as cacheable as possible so traffic to origin is still minimized.

If you're working with a more reasonable CDN vendor then this argument loses weight. I am jaded here because I keep landing in jobs that are tied to older CDNs that are extremely cumbersome to work with. Maybe deploying thousands of rewrite rules to, say, Cloudflare is a delight. I dunno.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


22 Eargesplitten posted:

I have heard that but I'm not aware of any laws to that effect. I think why some companies won't do more than that is they're worried about being blamed for giving a bad reference and being sued, even if it's frivolous it's a pain in the rear end.

Hmmmm. Texas says: Chapter 103 of the Texas Labor Code (https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/LA/htm/LA.103.htm) protects from defamation liability an employer who releases information about a current or former employee to a prospective new employer, unless "the information disclosed was known by that employer to be false at the time the disclosure was made or that the disclosure was made with malice or in reckless disregard for the truth or falsity of the information disclosed."

So they don't codify providing just the employment confirmation, but the Texas Workforce Commission page that came from does suggest just the facts, and no more than is requested, all while avoiding couching it in inflammatory terms such as "Joe was fired for doing drugs and we don't tolerate druggies."

Basically, you're correct, in other words.

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)
I'm getting paid to copy and paste information into an excel spreadsheet

Why did I get a cert again? 7 year old me could do this

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Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Welcome to IT.

Also, if you're the new person it doesn't matter if you went to school or got certs. Probably going to be a bit until you get given more responsibility. I'd try to find ways to automate as much as you can, even if you weren't asked to.

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