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I admit to being at least passingly curious about Monero, as it is actually anonymous and I do think there is a case to be made that a digital equivalent of cash could be a good thing for liberty (and of course plenty or arguments that it would be bad). Unfortunately though it appears Monero and every other “privacy coin” are proof of work coins and are therefore terrible for the planet.
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Jul 17, 2022 19:25
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When Matt Damon started advertising crypto on tv, it was so obvious that they were running out of the "natural" bag-holders.
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Jul 17, 2022 19:29
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buttcoin
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Jul 17, 2022 19:34
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coolusername posted:Coinbase reddit is starting to get posts and comments about not being able to withdraw from it, and the coinbase auto response bot is claiming it’s a technical issue they’re working on, mixed in with other redditors claiming it’s all astroturf FUD. This has some links to some of the public transactions Coinbase Co. is doing. I can't imagine what's going on behind the scenes. They are absolutely going to go "bankrupt" and are pulling out every bit of cash as possible before they pull a Voyager/Celsius/rando-exchange move.
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Jul 17, 2022 19:52
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gbut posted:When Matt Damon started advertising crypto on tv, it was so obvious that they were running out of the "natural" bag-holders. lol too true. crypto sped ran the economy but also reached the maximum rubes per square scam so fast it imploded right as they tried to roll it out to the public.
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Jul 17, 2022 20:18
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PITY BONER posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/vyjsj2/how_does_coinbase_ceo_buy_a_133m_mansion_if_the/ig3bov4/ The comments on this is astounding at the lack of empathy that the bag holders have between eachother. "Anyone who got fooled by the exact same thing as me, but a bit later deserves to lose all their money, they should have known better, by the way HODL"
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Jul 17, 2022 20:18
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Tiger Millionaire posted:The comments on this is astounding at the lack of empathy that the bag holders have between eachother. "Anyone who got fooled by the exact same thing as me, but a bit later deserves to lose all their money, they should have known better, by the way HODL" Buttcoin is an anti crypto sub. I don't see anyone saying anything like that?
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Jul 17, 2022 20:29
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Koburn posted:Buttcoin is an anti crypto sub. I don't see anyone saying anything like that? Yeah lmao never mind me on this one, I wildly misinterpreted the posts, blame the EU heateave for melting my brain
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Jul 17, 2022 20:39
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AndreTheGiantBoned posted:But I repeat, why does bitcoin qualify as a ponzi? Ponzi requires a exponential flow of new capital, which is of course unsustainable. But bitcoin? I guess it can just linger as a niche stock for weirdos? It has to be a ponzi, or it fails. Bitcoin needs miners to run its hashing algorithm. It needs to reward those miners with something, and paying out actual cash requires both a cash reserve and centralised cash handling, so it pays out in fake tokens generated automatically by the algorithm. The tokens are worthless on their own, so the only way to claim that they have value and therefore you should be a miner is to claim that other people will buy them for more than the electricity cost it took to generate them. The only way that those people could possibly believe that buying in, and therefore paying the miners, is worth their money is to believe that they will be able to sell the coins on to someone else for more than they paid. And on, and on, and on. Eventually you run out of people who will pay more than the last person. This requires an exponential flow of new capital in order to keep the number going up and keep every next seller happy. If it does not require this exponential flow of new capital, then the buyers wouldn't buy from the miners, the miners wouldn't mine the coin, coins wouldn't be generated and the whole thing falls over. If I've gone wrong on any step of this please let me know. Why else would I buy the automatically-generated detritus of a miner?
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Jul 17, 2022 21:14
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https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/w0nb4j/first_gameplay_footage_of_yugas_metaverse/ I don't know to embed a video if it's hosted on Reddit, but this first footage of the BAYC NFT game is loving hilarious.
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Jul 17, 2022 21:23
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Booyah- posted:I'm not going to say Bitcoin isn't a distributed ponzi, but there are definitely enough bitcoin maxis out there who will buy bitcoin with no intention of ever selling it for fiat, which could keep the price fluctuating around some non-zero value. I really wonder how these maxis expect to realize their gains. Even if society collapses and your bitcoins become, somehow, the currency of the wasteland, you will have to spend them at that point.
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Jul 17, 2022 21:26
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Nessus posted:Didn't some Bloomberg commodity analyst say, "This is a commodity where 90% or more of it is held by religious fanatics who will never sell it." I wonder how much of that is folks who mined a couple thousand coins back when it was easy and then forgot their wallet
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Jul 17, 2022 21:40
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Somfin posted:It has to be a ponzi, or it fails. I think that the flaw in this argument is that there can be arbitrarily few miners. Mining is an arms race. There can be 10x, 100x less miners, and the system still works. If it is not worth it to mine, the number of miners decreases until it is profitable again. This is true until a certain point: I guess one can reach the point of collapse in which nobody is willing to mine anymore, but with the amount of true believers going around, there is nothing stopping Bitcoin from cristallizing, say, 2014 levels.
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Jul 17, 2022 21:56
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in a hypothetical world where the price plummets well below profitability for a bunch of industrial mining operations then mining capital would be dirt cheap forever given it can't do anything else shy of being scrapped for metals. look at old antminers and poo poo, totally worthless
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Jul 17, 2022 22:09
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it's really dumb though because they just make new currencies, mine a bunch up front until it becomes restrictive, then launch said currency and manipulate the market until it gets non productive, repeat. It's all a dumb rear end shell game from the start, saying it's even a commodity is a laugh.
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Jul 17, 2022 22:10
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Making money off bitcoin is like trying to make money off real dollars but with diablo immortals levels of multipliers working against you such that you will never make money.
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Jul 17, 2022 22:16
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https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1548752356304633863 Hey so we're shutting down our services in cooperation with a police investigation. *The closer you look, the further you see.*
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Jul 17, 2022 22:55
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LifeSunDeath posted:it's really dumb though because they just make new currencies, mine a bunch up front until it becomes restrictive, then launch said currency and manipulate the market until it gets non productive, repeat. It's all a dumb rear end shell game from the start, saying it's even a commodity is a laugh. What I predict is that once BTC and the major exchanges all crash, there will be smaller exchanges who deal strictly in penny-stocky-style shitcoins (and who each have their own shitcoins to turn fiat into). New money will flow in and out of the system and pumping and dumping through endless shitcoins, while the believers bounce from shitcoin to shitcoin, white paper to white paper, because they are just gambling addicts. It will be a constant game of guessing which ground floor to get on and ride up however many cents-to-dollars before the rug gets pulled. Even though this is actually very lucrative if you can time it right in the penny stock world, the DeFi world will consist of smaller exchanges resorting to freezing accounts and closing up over and over like a free money machine for the founders. There will also be even more blatant market manipulation, of course.
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Jul 17, 2022 23:00
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what do the white papers do? aren't they supposed to propose how their product is going to revolutionize and change the world?
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Jul 17, 2022 23:12
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ilmucche posted:what do the white papers do? aren't they supposed to propose how their product is going to revolutionize and change the world? Initially yes, that was the point. Now it means I know a buzzword, please invest in my crypto-currency.
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Jul 17, 2022 23:16
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AndreTheGiantBoned posted:I think that the flaw in this argument is that there can be arbitrarily few miners. Mining is an arms race. There can be 10x, 100x less miners, and the system still works. You still can't make any money unless the next person in line pays more than you paid.
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Jul 17, 2022 23:17
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PITY BONER posted:This is my opinion on the end stage of crypto as a whole, unless it gets entirely regulated off the map and is impossible to deal with at all in developed nations. I can't wait for AI driven scam exchanges constantly fake pumping and dumping in endless loops. AIs scamming each other while idiots sit by the sidelines thinking they're following real action. Everything is smoke and mirrors and running wild. Behind the curtain is no one, pumping and dumping nothing. We were all the sleeper and bitcoin has awakened.
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Jul 17, 2022 23:50
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LifeSunDeath posted:I can't wait for AI driven scam exchanges constantly fake pumping and dumping in endless loops. AIs scamming each other while idiots sit by the sidelines thinking they're following real action. Everything is smoke and mirrors and running wild. Behind the curtain is no one, pumping and dumping nothing. We were all the sleeper and bitcoin has awakened. Mark did nothing wrong
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Jul 17, 2022 23:52
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The perfect mark was inside of you the whole time.
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Jul 17, 2022 23:58
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Celsius redditors learn about the concept of ponzi clawbacks. quote:I’ll say this again and I’m sure I’ll get downvoted but people need to know the truth. Celsius WILL be sending this letters out. You HAVE to pay these funds back if a judge orders it. No boating accident is gonna save you from having your credit score rocked. I know this is hard to hear but do your research. This happens all the time.  quote:I pulled my fund weeks before the withdraw lock date. They were my funds when I put them in and they were my fund when I pulled them out.  quote:What if they sue you though or send to collection/ruin your credit. That’s my concern. quote:Then you have the opportunity to abuse creditors over the phone. Sounds great to me. quote:While they ruin your credit score quote:Id gladly declare bankruptcy…. they’d never get hands on my poo poo if I withdrew early. Prison? gently caress it, just gives me an excuse to hodl more. Do my time for a little while and I’ll come out of the joint in a rolls royce This is also, somehow, good for bitcoin.
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Jul 18, 2022 00:08
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Why do they have to pay their money back if they got it out before the bankruptcy?
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Jul 18, 2022 00:25
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ilmucche posted:Why do they have to pay their money back if they got it out before the bankruptcy? i'm just guessing here, but, probably because they stole it
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Jul 18, 2022 00:28
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ilmucche posted:Why do they have to pay their money back if they got it out before the bankruptcy? Tl;dr summary as I understand it: Ponzi schemes are fraud, early investors who make profit are profiting off later victims (even if they themselves didn’t know it was a fraud). You clawback the money from the early profiteers and redistribute to the bankrupted later victims to even it out. They’ll go after the bigger money winners, you’re probably fine if you’re only a little up, but the ones who hauled in big profits or may have had insider info have to cough it all back up.
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Jul 18, 2022 00:35
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ilmucche posted:Why do they have to pay their money back if they got it out before the bankruptcy? Because in a Ponzi scheme withdrawals are funded by taking the money from new investors to pay off current investors so the money you put in is already gone and the money you withdrew belonged to other people. It's not uncommon for judges to order you to pay back your early withdrawals so they can all be pooled together and everyone loses some rather than some lucky people getting made whole off other people's money and other people losing everything. The Madoff judge did that too though iirc he ended up only ordering people to pay back gains and not doing clawbacks from people who withdrew less than their initial investment but legally he could have made them return everything. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jul 18, 2022 |
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Jul 18, 2022 00:39
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coolusername posted:Tl;dr summary as I understand it: Ponzi schemes are fraud, early investors who make profit are profiting off later victims (even if they themselves didn’t know it was a fraud). You clawback the money from the early profiteers and redistribute to the bankrupted later victims to even it out. They’ll go after the bigger money winners, you’re probably fine if you’re only a little up, but the ones who hauled in big profits or may have had insider info have to cough it all back up. got it in one. That is how Ponzi schemes work
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Jul 18, 2022 00:39
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Call Your Grandma posted:buttcoin
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Jul 18, 2022 00:52
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Just got back from Starbucks. Buying a macchiato is so easy now in 2022, I just handed them the keys to my house, car, and safe deposit box, and all my bank account numbers, and a power of attorney over all my assets so they can complete a transaction in my name for $5.70
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Jul 18, 2022 00:57
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VitalSigns posted:Just got back from Starbucks. Buying a macchiato is so easy now in 2022, I just handed them the keys to my house, car, and safe deposit box, and all my bank account numbers, and a power of attorney over all my assets so they can complete a transaction in my name for $5.70 I would have paid cash. 
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Jul 18, 2022 01:01
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VitalSigns posted:Just got back from Starbucks. Buying a macchiato is so easy now in 2022, I just handed them the keys to my house, car, and safe deposit box, and all my bank account numbers, and a power of attorney over all my assets so they can complete a transaction in my name for $5.70 You forgot the gas fees 
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Jul 18, 2022 01:04
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LifeSunDeath posted:I can't wait for AI driven scam exchanges constantly fake pumping and dumping in endless loops. AIs scamming each other while idiots sit by the sidelines thinking they're following real action. Everything is smoke and mirrors and running wild. Behind the curtain is no one, pumping and dumping nothing. We were all the sleeper and bitcoin has awakened. Do you want The War Economy? Because that's how you get The War Economy.
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Jul 18, 2022 01:05
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Agents are GO! posted:Do you want The War Economy? Because that's how you get The War Economy. at that point we won't have a choice. AI will run a billion simulations of it turning on me before it turns on me, so that when it turns on me, I'm absolutely not able to see it coming or do anything about it.
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Jul 18, 2022 01:07
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PITY BONER posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/w0nb4j/first_gameplay_footage_of_yugas_metaverse/ I mean whats the loving gameplay? just another 3rd person shooter? lol at buttcoinerz saying their shooter #32904589048 is going to be the king killer game. Also I was going to gush about how this free game I got from Humble, Unsighted, is a great amazing game, but I'm also listening to NPR's Freakonomics and lol at the Eth creator letting the story of how his WoW build getting nerfed inspired him.
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Jul 18, 2022 01:19
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ilmucche posted:what do the white papers do? aren't they supposed to propose how their product is going to revolutionize and change the world? It's a buzzword on a buzzword. Drafts are written on that lovely yellow paper. The submitted copy is written on white paper.
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Jul 18, 2022 01:21
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holy crap at their explaination for smart contact stuff. "you breath into your phone and upload your college degree into your phone and get a trillion dollars."
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Jul 18, 2022 01:21
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re: ponzi scheme it is correct that in a ponzi scheme the estate often goes after net winners: the theory being that the payments are an intentional fraudulent transfer - it is presumed every payment made in a ponzi scheme is an intentional fraudulent transfer. i suspect that in celsius that would get limited to a subset of high-value winners as long as it stays in chapter 11 (and, anyone closely linked to the company_. if it collapses into a chapter 7 liquidation the trustee will go after a broader set of people who withdrew. i don't know the hole in celsius is big enough it's worth going after just people who got their principal back and making them share the loss too, but i would think that's a bridge too far in either event. i also don't recall exactly where the ponzi scheme presumption applies - it seems likely celsius was both (a) trying, and failing miserably, to turn a profit on the investments; and (b) the interest on withdrawing depositors was paid from later depositors. i don't know if that officially constitutes one or not of the top of my head. evilweasel fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jul 18, 2022 |
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Jul 18, 2022 02:00
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