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CBD Corndog
Jun 21, 2009



Rinkles posted:

It might be something specific in my set up, but I get bad lag on my secondary, nonVRR monitors when I'm running certain games on them. I haven't been able to determine the cause. It's not just getting used to high frame rate gaming.

You should check in the Windows settings for Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling and turn it off to see if it helps:


Its in the same spot in Windows 10, turning this off and rebooting my computer solved all stuttering and secondary monitor lag issues when under heavy GPU load and having a video on another monitor.

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Nice Van My Man
Jan 1, 2008

Thanks, sounds like mixing monitors can be unclear for a reason... hopefully I get that magic mix of drivers and software that make it work right.

I don't really plan to do anything with the 2nd monitor while gaming so as long as everything else works and I don't need to constantly disconnect it I should be fine.

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

The M27Q-X, Gigabyte's newest 1440p 240Hz monitor, is down to just $450 currently: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09VH8B1XW?tag=rtings-mn-p-amazon-20&ie=UTF8

It's a pretty good display and a better value at that price than any of the competition.

So just so I'm clear about how high refresh displays work, if my current system can only barely do 150 fps then a 240 hz display is mostly pointless right? I would have to be playing something that my system can comfortably output close to the listed hz in fps? Or is that completely misunderstanding something?

change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Did Gigabyte discontinue the original M27Q? I bought one for like $220 on sale but it doesn't seem to be available new anywhere, I only see the 165Hz P variant

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

TheDemon posted:

So just so I'm clear about how high refresh displays work, if my current system can only barely do 150 fps then a 240 hz display is mostly pointless right? I would have to be playing something that my system can comfortably output close to the listed hz in fps? Or is that completely misunderstanding something?

Correct. Especially with variable refresh rate enabled, the refresh rate would only go as high as your frame rate anyway.

change my name posted:

Did Gigabyte discontinue the original M27Q? I bought one for like $220 on sale but it doesn't seem to be available new anywhere, I only see the 165Hz P variant

It seems so. The P variant is replacing it, presumably because they were sick of people complaining about the BGR subpixels.

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009


Rinkles posted:

probably gonna disappear soon, but amazon has the x27q for $175

"treasure truck" deal

https://www.amazon.com/tt/webview
I bought my 3x for $230 in late March so too much time has passed to get a price adjustment. Rip my $170, equivalent to buy 2 get 1 free. :smith:

Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jul 13, 2022

CatelynIsAZombie
Nov 16, 2006

I can't wait to bomb DO-DON-GOES!

Rinkles posted:

probably gonna disappear soon, but amazon has the x27q for $175

"treasure truck" deal

https://www.amazon.com/tt/webview

This is a fun sale to miss lol.

Prices don't really seem to have come down during the prime sale on any 1080p 240hz+ monitors so idk really what I wanna do rn. I might just get something 1080p 144hz. (probably wouldve just got an x27q for $170 tho lol)

Edit: To clarify spending $170 on something lower res seems fine just to get a solution in place (I currently game on a 60hz monitor so anything's gonna be a huge improvement) though that's half the price of a "decent" 240hz 1080 or 165hz 1440 at the present time.

CatelynIsAZombie fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jul 13, 2022

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

TheDemon posted:

So just so I'm clear about how high refresh displays work, if my current system can only barely do 150 fps then a 240 hz display is mostly pointless right? I would have to be playing something that my system can comfortably output close to the listed hz in fps? Or is that completely misunderstanding something?

It would be mostly pointless compared to just buying a 144hz monitor and capping FPS at 140. If you don't already have a high refreshrate VRR monitor, buy one the next time there's a good deal. There's really no excuse to have a modern GPU but not a modern display, it's gamechanging.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

One thing to be aware of with the X27q is that it doesn't have an sRGB mode and it has an oversaturated color palette in all modes, but that can be fixed with calibration or with this: https://github.com/ledoge/novideo_srgb

I see they've updated that program to work with ICC profiles, which is great because it then turns into a driver-level way to implement those (hardware accelerated games/video ignore ICC profiles usually, but shouldn't with this). The ICC option will also correct lovely gamma curves.

If you're on AMD, there's a hidden driver setting you can use, described here: https://pcmonitors.info/articles/taming-the-wide-gamut-using-srgb-emulation/

Update: This rules. It's such a better way to use ICC profiles than Windows' awful color management app. Just about everyone with an nvidia card should use this gamut clamping tool unless you need a really high-level calibration for professional work (even then, it supports multiple gamuts and they say you can do a professional calibration on top of it). Download an ICC profile for your monitor from somewhere (rtings, Hardware Unboxed if you're a floatplane/patreon subscriber of theirs, etc), feed it to this tool, enable gamma correction, and you should get a near-perfectly clamped color gamut with an accurate white point and gamma curve that works with everything since it's driver-level.

I'm using it on my XB273U GX with a hardware unboxed ICC profile, and it's even better than the already-good built-in sRGB mode.

CatelynIsAZombie posted:

This is a fun sale to miss lol.

Prices don't really seem to have come down during the prime sale on any 1080p 240hz+ monitors so idk really what I wanna do rn. I might just get something 1080p 144hz. (probably wouldve just got an x27q for $170 tho lol)

Edit: To clarify spending $170 on something lower res seems fine just to get a solution in place (I currently game on a 60hz monitor so anything's gonna be a huge improvement) though that's half the price of a "decent" 240hz 1080 or 165hz 1440 at the present time.

Walmart has this 27" 1080p monitor on sale for $120, if you don't mind having a low-ish dpi: https://www.walmart.com/ip/MSI-Optix-G272-27-Full-HD-LED-Gaming-LCD-Monitor-16-9/905918032 (RTINGS review)

Could be a good, cheap stopgap. Just resell it later for a hundred bucks or so when you want to move on to something better

Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jul 14, 2022

Death On Toast
Aug 2, 2006
The better half of the Brothers Douche.

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Walmart has this 27" 1080p monitor on sale for $120, if you don't mind having a low-ish dpi: https://www.walmart.com/ip/MSI-Optix-G272-27-Full-HD-LED-Gaming-LCD-Monitor-16-9/905918032 (RTINGS review)

Could be a good, cheap stopgap. Just resell it later for a hundred bucks or so when you want to move on to something better

I have the G271 version of this which IIRC performs about the same. I bought it as an external display for my laptop, and it works really well in that role. Definitely a good value at $120. Just be aware that the stand is bad-- it sits low, only has tilt adjust, and has a large footprint, making it awkward to prop up on a hutch or stack of books. Definitely a good candidate for a monitor arm (maybe get a dual arm to do dual monitor when you eventually upgrade?)

NJ Deac
Apr 6, 2006

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

The main thing that worries me about the G8 is the "scanline" issue a lot of people have been posting about. It only seems to happen at very high refresh rates (so, above 165Hz), which seems to defeat the purpose of the G8 considering the higher refresh rate is its sole benefit over the Neo G7. There's a lot of variability in people's reports about the issue though, so maybe you'll get a good unit? I think I'd just stick with the 165Hz one and not worry about it, tbh. As far as I know, the Neo G7's only real issue is that it doesn't get anywhere near the advertised peak 2000 nits (neither does the Neo G8), but it still seems to get reasonably bright and has good local dimming.

My Neo G8 arrived today. Other than the higher refresh rate, it also has a considerably sturdier mounting mechanism than the Neo G7 (the screws actually thread into the display as opposed to just the circular halo mount thing), so it doesn't wobble as much on my desk arm. It also has a nice cable shield that the Neo G7 lacks, and I kinda dig the white color.

No scan line issues that I can perceive - I've run several different websites that are supposed to trigger the problem 100% of the time on the Neo G9, and don't see any issues. That's not to say they aren't there, but I'm not going to dig any deeper. Definitely going to send the Neo G7 back at this point since after all the discount codes and rebates it cost about the same as the Neo G8 (I found out today Microsoft will send me an extra $70 rebate from some kind of edge/bing rewards thing).

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

The Neo G7 gets a positive review from Hardware Unboxed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMcABSuKAK0

So I'm pretty sure I'm getting either this or the Neo G8. The G7 is $1100 on Amazon now. The Neo G8 is $1300 on Samsung's webstore with a further $208 discount through their no-verification-needed (I think?) education discount program. The main issue is that I really hate dealing with returns and I don't want to risk getting a defective unit with visible scanlines at 240hz. But you can just set a custom resolution with a refresh rate of 165Hz in the nvidia control panel to avoid the issue anyway, can't you? If NJ Deac can confirm this, then I guess I'm getting the Neo G8. At 4K 240hz, at least I can say it'll be the last gaming monitor I'd need to buy for a while.

xgalaxy
Jan 27, 2004
i write code

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

The Neo G7 gets a positive review from Hardware Unboxed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMcABSuKAK0

So I'm pretty sure I'm getting either this or the Neo G8. The G7 is $1100 on Amazon now. The Neo G8 is $1300 on Samsung's webstore with a further $208 discount through their no-verification-needed (I think?) education discount program. The main issue is that I really hate dealing with returns and I don't want to risk getting a defective unit with visible scanlines at 240hz. But you can just set a custom resolution with a refresh rate of 165Hz in the nvidia control panel to avoid the issue anyway, can't you? If NJ Deac can confirm this, then I guess I'm getting the Neo G8. At 4K 240hz, at least I can say it'll be the last gaming monitor I'd need to buy for a while.

Needs KVM for me to consider it. And preferably no curve.

NJ Deac
Apr 6, 2006

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

The Neo G7 gets a positive review from Hardware Unboxed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMcABSuKAK0

So I'm pretty sure I'm getting either this or the Neo G8. The G7 is $1100 on Amazon now. The Neo G8 is $1300 on Samsung's webstore with a further $208 discount through their no-verification-needed (I think?) education discount program. The main issue is that I really hate dealing with returns and I don't want to risk getting a defective unit with visible scanlines at 240hz. But you can just set a custom resolution with a refresh rate of 165Hz in the nvidia control panel to avoid the issue anyway, can't you? If NJ Deac can confirm this, then I guess I'm getting the Neo G8. At 4K 240hz, at least I can say it'll be the last gaming monitor I'd need to buy for a while.

Re: the price, when I went to check out on samsung.com, the Edge browser said "Want to apply this discount code?" and I hit yes and all of a sudden it was $130 cheaper than the $1299 advertised price. It further triggered a $70 cash back from MS that I'll apparently receive in October - sounds like you may be able to do better if the education discount holds up. 36 month no interest financing is nice too - I wouldn't recommend anyone buy on credit if they can't afford it out of pocket, but free money over 3 years? Sure, why not? I also got a pile of "samsung points" that are probably redeemable for something.

I actually played around a bit fiddling with custom resolutions/refresh rates on the Neo G7 (trying to force 150hz at 4k). I don't have much definitive information for you since my experience was odd. I tried both the Nvidia control panel and the "Custom Resolution Utility" (CRU) from monitortests.com to create a custom refresh rate below 165hz. The monitor would only allow for custom resolutions/refresh rates in HDMI 2.1 mode, and only when the display was set to "120hz" mode. Even then, it wouldn't accept any refresh rates at 4k over 145hz unless I fiddled with the timings in a way I wasn't fully comfortable with. It also got squirrely when I attempted to apply 10 bit color, probably because I had reached some kind of bandwidth limit. My guess is that DSC isn't turned on unless the monitor is in 165/240hz mode, and those modes use some kind of hardwired Display ID instead of the software-based EDID configuration that Nvidia control panel and CRU edit. I dunno - I'm a little out of my technical depth here. I gave up and decided to just live with the native refresh rate since the one game I was trying to optimize for didn't seem to care anyway.

That's all to say that I wouldn't bank on being able to easily run the display in a lower resolution - 165hz isn't an option in any of my display settings on this Neo G8, though I suspect it's reasonably likely there's a way to force the configuration if you are sufficiently dedicated. May just be a matter of the right firmware or Nvidia driver update coming along.

CatelynIsAZombie
Nov 16, 2006

I can't wait to bomb DO-DON-GOES!

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Update: This rules. It's such a better way to use ICC profiles than Windows' awful color management app. Just about everyone with an nvidia card should use this gamut clamping tool unless you need a really high-level calibration for professional work (even then, it supports multiple gamuts and they say you can do a professional calibration on top of it). Download an ICC profile for your monitor from somewhere (rtings, Hardware Unboxed if you're a floatplane/patreon subscriber of theirs, etc), feed it to this tool, enable gamma correction, and you should get a near-perfectly clamped color gamut with an accurate white point and gamma curve that works with everything since it's driver-level.

I'm using it on my XB273U GX with a hardware unboxed ICC profile, and it's even better than the already-good built-in sRGB mode.

Walmart has this 27" 1080p monitor on sale for $120, if you don't mind having a low-ish dpi: https://www.walmart.com/ip/MSI-Optix-G272-27-Full-HD-LED-Gaming-LCD-Monitor-16-9/905918032 (RTINGS review)

Could be a good, cheap stopgap. Just resell it later for a hundred bucks or so when you want to move on to something better

This was interesting when I checked yesterday price was at $150 for me but now they're all sold out anyway. Maybe there was some trick to seeing the full discount. (I am in the states so that shouldn't have been an issue)

So as far as what I've learned here and from other sources so far (a few comments on blurbusters come to mind). I'd sum things up regarding motion clarity as "higher refresh rate monitors have faster grey to grey transfer times and naturally create a higher quality lower blur experience. This like quality alone seems to be the biggest case for higher refresh rates in IPS panels and explains why people who "cannot see" a difference between very high refresh rates theoretically can like actually see meaningful differences in each panel's practical performance.

I probably won't pull the trigger for a few weeks here since stuffs coming up but right now at around $300 I'm considering the ASUS TUF Gaming VG259QM. I've seen people using the 27" version too but given my current desk situation this will be the same size as what I'm using and I've liked the reviews and discussions I've seen of people using it. Still stuck on a 970 gpu right now so I'm gonna have to wrestle with performance more in the 144hz range but given that the 30 series cards are getting discounted now I might end up with a modern GPU sooner than later.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

surprised samsung is sticking to such an extreme curve

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Oh, gently caress it. I'm buying the Neo G7. I trust Amazon marginally more than Samsung, and I highly doubt I'll ever get much use out of greater-than-165Hz refresh rates anyway. So I may as well go for the one that I know will work just fine.

I will need some monitor arms to make my intended dual-monitor setup work though. I know we've talked a lot about arms, but I've forgotten what the consensus ended up being on which are the best. I'd like to avoid a single dual-arm solution because I don't trust my current desk to handle two monitors' worth of weight on a single point very well. It obviously needs to hold a heavy 32" display steady, and the other display will be either a 24" or 27" display (probably in portrait mode, since having a landscaped flat panel next to a curved panel will look weird)

CatelynIsAZombie posted:

This was interesting when I checked yesterday price was at $150 for me but now they're all sold out anyway. Maybe there was some trick to seeing the full discount. (I am in the states so that shouldn't have been an issue)

So as far as what I've learned here and from other sources so far (a few comments on blurbusters come to mind). I'd sum things up regarding motion clarity as "higher refresh rate monitors have faster grey to grey transfer times and naturally create a higher quality lower blur experience. This like quality alone seems to be the biggest case for higher refresh rates in IPS panels and explains why people who "cannot see" a difference between very high refresh rates theoretically can like actually see meaningful differences in each panel's practical performance.

I probably won't pull the trigger for a few weeks here since stuffs coming up but right now at around $300 I'm considering the ASUS TUF Gaming VG259QM. I've seen people using the 27" version too but given my current desk situation this will be the same size as what I'm using and I've liked the reviews and discussions I've seen of people using it. Still stuck on a 970 gpu right now so I'm gonna have to wrestle with performance more in the 144hz range but given that the 30 series cards are getting discounted now I might end up with a modern GPU sooner than later.

There are actually two different types of display-induced motion blur that often happen at the same time. The first is persistence blur, which inherent to all "sample-and-hold" displays that update a frame and then keep it on the screen until the next frame (so all LCDs and OLEDs). It's more of an optical illusion that's caused by your eyes attempting to track movement that is technically stationary between each frame. Older displays that flickered (CRT, rear projection, plasma) never had this problem because your mind would fill in the blanks more smoothly, giving the illusion of there being more movement than there was in reality. Anyway, the more frames per second your eyes see, the less of an issue this problem is. The second cause of blur is response times, yeah. Slow response times mean pixels are updating more slowly, and it's possible for some pixels to be updated too slow for a given refresh rate, resulting in a fuzzy trail of slowly updating pixels behind moving objects. These are distinct issues though, and faster refresh rates may not necessarily result in faster response times, for instance.

Overall though, I'd say that it's easy to overblow both of these issues. You get into pretty strong diminishing returns for reducing persistence blur past 144Hz or so, and response times on most modern IPS panels are generally fine. If you're not an esports person looking to minmax input latency and reaction times (two other benefits of faster refresh rates/response times), then a mid-refresh panel at 144 - 170Hz will typically be just fine.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?
Here’s a video shilling LG’s OLEDs, showing how their superior pixel response times, compared to LCDs, have tangible benefits for gaming. FWIW, I played some 120fps PS5 games on a Samsung LCD (QLED Q70T) and the ghosting/blur was very noticeable. Much worse than on my monitor (M27Q).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy3cKwq6vEw

Also flashing lights warning

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

I'm not saying response times have no impact. I'm saying that the typical modern IPS monitor's response times are generally "good enough" and you aren't going to get much out of spending a ton of money chasing ever lower response times. Like, the M27Q's response times when compared to all the other recent IPS displays are pretty mediocre, but they're still good enough for your needs, for example.

(also, that video inadvertently shows the downside to having response times that are too fast—the call of duty ADS example is very clearly visually smoother on the LCD despite him trying to claim the opposite)

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I'm not saying response times have no impact. I'm saying that the typical modern IPS monitor's response times are generally "good enough" and you aren't going to get much out of spending a ton of money chasing ever lower response times. Like, the M27Q's response times when compared to all the other recent IPS displays are pretty mediocre, but they're still good enough for your needs, for example.

(also, that video inadvertently shows the downside to having response times that are too fast—the call of duty ADS example is very clearly visually smoother on the LCD despite him trying to claim the opposite)

Wasn’t meant to be a counter to what you wrote. Just an illustration, since I watched it just now to remind myself.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



Gigabyte AORUS FI32U is on sale for $650 at Amazon and B&H, if you want a 4K 32" gaming monitor.

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I will need some monitor arms to make my intended dual-monitor setup work though. I know we've talked a lot about arms, but I've forgotten what the consensus ended up being on which are the best. I'd like to avoid a single dual-arm solution because I don't trust my current desk to handle two monitors' worth of weight on a single point very well. It obviously needs to hold a heavy 32" display steady, and the other display will be either a 24" or 27" display (probably in portrait mode, since having a landscaped flat panel next to a curved panel will look weird)

I have 6x of the Amazon Basics monitor arms around the house (https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...5070409835&th=1) and they have done perfectly well by me for the last several years. Probably the heaviest monitor I'm having one hold is a 32" Alienware Ultrawide; seems to do just fine. (There is also a 27" 4k being used on another arm).

Tension is adjusted with an allen key; spring-based instead of gas-piston.

Not fancy, but seems durable enough at the price point. No complaints.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

I ended up buying the double arm anyway because it's just $110 as opposed to $200 for two single arms, and I'll just hope that my flimsy desk will hold until I replace it (it should be fine because I don't have anything else heavy on it. i'm just needlessly worried because it's old and lovely)

CatelynIsAZombie
Nov 16, 2006

I can't wait to bomb DO-DON-GOES!

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:



There are actually two different types of display-induced motion blur that often happen at the same time. The first is persistence blur, which inherent to all "sample-and-hold" displays that update a frame and then keep it on the screen until the next frame (so all LCDs and OLEDs).

Yeah I was conflating both types into basically the same concept, but I agree they are two independent phenomena. Is blurriness from sample and hold image handling most easily cleared up by higher framerate and nothing else on the hardware end? Just as long as there are more frames to see the eye is not spending as much time looking at the 'older' fixed image?

That certainly would explain a lot why at higher framerates BFI/ulmb style solutions aren't really necessary, though I assume they actually can kinda fix both problems since a lot of what people seem to consider them designed for is to remove ghosting on panels with slower g2g times.

But yeah I agree with the 144-170hz is "good enough" since the total % increase in frames gained is greater jumping from 60hz to 144 than from 144 to 240 or 240 to 360.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



I was not aware that panel lotteries were still a thing, but apparently they are. The HP X27q originally shipped with a LM270WQA-SSA2 panel, same as in Dell S2721DGF, where as the one I got (and which many others got through Amazon) is a BOE MV270QHM-NF1, same as in the LG 27GN800. Not sure how to feel about this since there's no clear indication which is better, but manufacturers have been pulling this poo poo for what at least 16 years now and it seems like it shouldn't be legal to bait and switch like this, at least not without changing the model name/number. Dell at least had revision numbers, though they were doing much shadier IPS to VA swaps.

Klungar
Feb 12, 2008

Klungo make bessst ever video game, 'Hero Klungo Sssavesss Teh World.'

eXXon posted:

I was not aware that panel lotteries were still a thing, but apparently they are. The HP X27q originally shipped with a LM270WQA-SSA2 panel, same as in Dell S2721DGF, where as the one I got (and which many others got through Amazon) is a BOE MV270QHM-NF1, same as in the LG 27GN800. Not sure how to feel about this since there's no clear indication which is better, but manufacturers have been pulling this poo poo for what at least 16 years now and it seems like it shouldn't be legal to bait and switch like this, at least not without changing the model name/number. Dell at least had revision numbers, though they were doing much shadier IPS to VA swaps.

How can one tell which one they have? I grabbed two and mine have different Manufacturing dates and different Revision codes, but not sure that is the distinguishing factor.

galenanorth
May 19, 2016

edit: nm

galenanorth fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jul 16, 2022

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



Klungar posted:

How can one tell which one they have? I grabbed two and mine have different Manufacturing dates and different Revision codes, but not sure that is the distinguishing factor.

There are instructions and some discussion in this reddit thread, amongst other places.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Monitor arm update: I sorta regret getting a dual-arm. I did not anticipate the dual-arms preventing me from pushing both monitors back as far as I wanted due to the presence of a wall behind my desk. If you have a wall behind your desk, it seems that you should really stick with two separate arms. Adjusting the mounting locations to be further apart will allow you to swing in each arm's "forearm" more without disrupting the other display's position.

Luckily the monitors are just a couple more inches forward than I would've liked so it's not a big deal for me, but one of my displays is just a 24" in portrait mode. Dual 27"+ landscaped monitors may need a bit more desk space to be able to fit side-by-side unless you have enough free space behind the desk to let the arms bend back.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



Did you use a side-mount clamp or a grommet with a hole? If the former, yeah; but if you're willing and able to drill the requisite hole in your desk for the latter, you do need to put closer to where you're sitting than you might think to prevent having the 'elbow' of the arm bang against a wall (or two, if you're right in a corner).

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Side-mount clamp. I moved the mounting location to the left which helped a bit, but then the Neo G7 sorta screwed everything up again when I replaced my 27" monitor with it. I thought I measured everything, but I still ended up with an inch or two of monitor overlapping — oops. I just need to rearrange my home office sooner than planned.

Anyway, Neo G7 initial impressions (90 minutes of use): I tested it out with Guardians of the Galaxy, and yep, it's a hell of a lot more impressive than my single-zone IPS. There's just something about how bright areas shine brightly without raising the black levels in the dark areas that make certain scenes seem so much more natural and realistic. I'm sure everyone has already gone through this with their OLED TVs, though this is my first time having any kind of real HDR hardware at all (I'm not counting my phone).

The ABL behavior on the windows desktop is unusual in HDR mode. I'm not entirely sure why there's an ABL at all. It's passively cooled, so maybe they were worried about heat? The issue though is that they don't even let HDR mode get as bright as SDR mode while on the windows desktop. It feels incorrectly tuned as a result. I'd like to just stay in HDR mode all the time so I don't have to worry about constantly switching display modes (and as a result, color profiles). It's not too dim to be usable by any stretch, but I'd like a bit more overhead for brightening up SDR videos. You can tell it's an ABL issue because if you have a large dark window open (like steam), the white areas of your screen get brighter. Just let it be as bright as SDR mode, and it'd be fine. To be clear though, the brightness levels seem good when viewing HDR content. It's just SDR content in HDR mode that's a little dim.

The curve: As a flat-panel user my whole life, I wasn't sure what to expect. When I was in-game, I didn't even notice it. It just disappeared for me. On the windows desktop, it does feel a little odd, but it doesn't really bother me at all. I'm sure I'll get used to it quickly.

So far, I've encountered no weird flickering or tone mapping issues, no scanlines, no other obvious defects I can think of. There is some small amount of backlight bleed visible on a black screen with local dimming turned off, but it's nowhere near as bad as the IPS glow on my last monitor. No black-level smearing either.

tl;dr: It seems pretty great to me. Fix up the ABL behavior, and maybe make the local dimming just a bit more aggressive, and it'd be about as good as an LCD can get.

Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jul 18, 2022

tehinternet
Feb 14, 2005

Semantically, "you" is both singular and plural, though syntactically it is always plural. It always takes a verb form that originally marked the word as plural.

Also, there is no plural when the context is an argument with an individual rather than a group. Somfin shouldn't put words in my mouth.

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I ended up buying the double arm anyway because it's just $110 as opposed to $200 for two single arms, and I'll just hope that my flimsy desk will hold until I replace it (it should be fine because I don't have anything else heavy on it. i'm just needlessly worried because it's old and lovely)

As a former computer janitor, I firmly support lovely desks that you’re okay drilling a grommet hole through. It’s so much more secure than clamping, even on lovely $80 Amazon desks

I have ~$2100 worth of monitors mounted on an $80 particle board desk, AMA :laffo:

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Yeah, I'm thinking that I'll probably end up taking a drill to my desk.

Another Neo G7 update: So the brightness issue with SDR content in HDR mode isn't entirely a brightness issue per se, but possibly an issue with the gamma curve and color saturation. The screen is just washed out. This is on top of odd ABL behavior. I've been looking around, and this thread on [H]ardForum (they're still around, apparently) has many users posting trip reports. Turning on "Contrast Enhancer" helps dramatically, but then white and black levels are crushed. Turning up the black equalizer helps a little, though there's still some dark-level crushing when doing so. So we are once again in a situation where we're waiting on Samsung for firmware updates to fix some glaring issues. Who could've seen that coming?

However, the LCD market is so sad right now that this is still best HDR experience you can get on one. Like I said, these issues are mainly just happening to SDR content in HDR mode. The HDR experience is still pretty awesome (even if the peak brightness is nowhere near what Samsung advertised).

Quaint Quail Quilt
Jun 19, 2006


Ask me about that time I told people mixing bleach and vinegar is okay
I researched the neo g7 and alienware's OLED panel and they both seem to be contenders.

I was leaning towards the Alienware until I saw that it has a worse response time than my current old monitor.
The most competitive game I play is rocket league, but ~7ms worse response might feel icky.
Playing that game on the Nintendo Switch is awful!
(Also ultra widescreen isn't something I've ever had and may not play nice with a few of my older games I play)

I've never played a PC quality game at 4k, my 3080 FE has a hard enough time hitting 144 at 1440 in some games, but it looks like proper HDR is getting closer to reality

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Quaint Quail Quilt posted:

I researched the neo g7 and alienware's OLED panel and they both seem to be contenders.

I was leaning towards the Alienware until I saw that it has a worse response time than my current old monitor.
The most competitive game I play is rocket league, but ~7ms worse response might feel icky.
Playing that game on the Nintendo Switch is awful!
(Also ultra widescreen isn't something I've ever had and may not play nice with a few of my older games I play)

I've never played a PC quality game at 4k, my 3080 FE has a hard enough time hitting 144 at 1440 in some games, but it looks like proper HDR is getting closer to reality

The Alienware QD-OLED does not have worse response times than any LCD. OLED response times are near-instantaneous. Make sure you're looking at reviews for the correct Alienware product: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/dell/alienware-aw3423dw



Or from Hardware Unboxed, which uses a different, much stricter and more accurate testing methodology (so response times from them will always be slower than the marketing claims):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YleSuwK8vR4



Motion should look crisp and smooth on the QD-OLED. And you can always use a 16:9 resolution in the few games that don't play nice with 21:9.

I like the Neo G7, but I got it because I wanted a 32" 4K display and I didn't want to wait the year or two it will take for Samsung to make a QD-OLED one happen. If you're concerned about driving a 4K monitor, then I'd just get the QD-OLED to be honest. It will have the better HDR experience, and it's not quite as quirky as the Neo QLED panels (though it's still a little quirky).

Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jul 18, 2022

fancyclown
Dec 10, 2012

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Update: This rules. It's such a better way to use ICC profiles than Windows' awful color management app. Just about everyone with an nvidia card should use this gamut clamping tool unless you need a really high-level calibration for professional work (even then, it supports multiple gamuts and they say you can do a professional calibration on top of it). Download an ICC profile for your monitor from somewhere (rtings, Hardware Unboxed if you're a floatplane/patreon subscriber of theirs, etc), feed it to this tool, enable gamma correction, and you should get a near-perfectly clamped color gamut with an accurate white point and gamma curve that works with everything since it's driver-level.

I'm using it on my XB273U GX with a hardware unboxed ICC profile, and it's even better than the already-good built-in sRGB mode.

So is this being saved in the registry or something? It loads after reboots? I just enabled it with an ICC from rtings :)

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

fancyclown posted:

So is this being saved in the registry or something? It loads after reboots? I just enabled it with an ICC from rtings :)

I'm not entirely sure where it's saved, but it persists after reboots, driver updates, basically everything, and the program only needs to be run to change your settings. I think it's changing something in your GPU driver settings.

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I'm not entirely sure where it's saved, but it persists after reboots, driver updates, basically everything, and the program only needs to be run to change your settings. I think it's changing something in your GPU driver settings.

If you have two monitors that are fairly different, that you've tuned to look similar, would this throw that off? Thanks doc.

I have an M32 and an xb270HU.

change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Has anyone messed around with the 240Hz M27Q X? It looks great for the price but I don't play any games that I could even hit 240Hz at 1440p on my 3070... I just tried Fortnite at high settings with far draw distance and it capped out at like 180 FPS (and I don't want to play on performance mode)

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Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

^^^^ There's no point to it if you're not going to be playing at higher frame rates. Stick with cheaper models with a lower refresh rate.

VelociBacon posted:

If you have two monitors that are fairly different, that you've tuned to look similar, would this throw that off? Thanks doc.

I have an M32 and an xb270HU.

It should in theory make them appear close to the same, assuming the calibration profiles you use were made correctly and there hasn't been much deviation from the calibrator's unit to yours. But you should disable any customizations you've done and pay heed to any OSD settings the calibrator used when making the profile.

edit: I DID just notice an odd quirk where after a reboot the calibration only applied to the left half of my screen with the right half being oversaturated. Turning it off and on again fixed it. So that was odd.

Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jul 18, 2022

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