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AnEdgelord posted:Egrimm would be mortals but Tamurkhan is an interesting question. During the titular Throne of Tamurkhan campaign book hes a mortal who leads mortals, even if hes been mutated into a parasitic worm that can possess people. Right at the end though he ascended to Daemonhood and summoned a massive army of Nurgle Daemons to replace his mortal army. I mean that's essentially a Daemon Prince, same as Azazel. I think Warriors would be better. I don't mind if the mono-god factions are more or less reserved for their Greater Daemon LLs. AnEdgelord posted:There is a potential Kurgan lord from that was in the Tamurkhan campaign book as well called Sayl the Faithless Unless they decide to do another Norsca and expand on the Kurgan as fantasy Turks/Huns/Scythians (which would be really cool), they are essentially synonymous with Warriors of Chaos. I think it'd be weird if they turn them into Norscans. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jul 19, 2022 |
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Jul 19, 2022 19:45
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Or hear me out, a Tamurkhan campaign that's tightly narrative like the WH3 tutorial 
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Jul 19, 2022 19:53
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Welp finally decided to nab this, any general tips for coming from 2 to this that may be helpful? Isn't there an unlockable bear rider dude I should go for in my first campaign or did I misread something?
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Jul 19, 2022 20:04
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As a first campaign I'd recommend one of the Cathay lords imo. Kislev (which includes the aforementioned bear rider Kostaltyn) is pretty hectic and can be difficult to manage, even coming off Warhammer 2.
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Jul 19, 2022 20:06
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sexpig by night posted:Welp finally decided to nab this, any general tips for coming from 2 to this that may be helpful? Isn't there an unlockable bear rider dude I should go for in my first campaign or did I misread something? i went with Skarbrand for my first campaign and had a blast. He has a melee infantry focused army that will shred anyone easily in a straight-up fight. Not to mention that Skarbrand himself is a loving monster that can solo whole armies once hes built up enough On the campaign level, his faction is very easy and the cities can make a surprising amount of money if you build them up for economy, not that you ever really need to do that since you can just send Skarbrand anywhere to sack and pillage into the green The prologue campaign is also surprisingly fun and has an interesting enough story to carry it for the 3-8 hours it takes to complete it
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Jul 19, 2022 20:14
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God this big dumb game is so loving neat. 
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Jul 19, 2022 20:20
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At this point i feel they're just gonna leave a lot of races to gimmicks for the MP balance and just let players use mods to fix poo poo. You're not gonna balance VC's, skaven, and the new chaos around races like dawi and TK's. I know i'll never use vanilla balancing because they done too many races dirty and let's face it, empire overhaul, rune scrap upgrade system, and mixus lord packs are mandatory. An empire game where i'm not confederating with every elector count that's their own unique LL?? A dawi game without slayer heroes, thunder barges, and multiple types of slayer units?? It sucks that vanilla will never be viable but eh it's not like i play MP haha, go create your OP faction that you want in MP i'll just mod those that fall behind damnit.
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Jul 19, 2022 20:27
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hello arghy
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Jul 19, 2022 20:29
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Gonkish posted:God this big dumb game is so loving neat.  It's incredibly fun, and the faction design is only getting more creative and interesting.
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Jul 19, 2022 20:30
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Third World Reagan posted:hello arghy
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Jul 19, 2022 20:38
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im glad that mods exist and ppl like them but ive put in hundreds of hours in all three games without mods and im looking forward to several more hundreds of hours the thought that the games are unplayable unless modded seems strange to me. Maybe those overhauls will seem more enticing once ive gotten several thousand hours 
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Jul 19, 2022 20:39
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I've played 550 hours of Warhams 2, and the only mods I've used were the "no great power" mod removing the great power opinion penalty, the "change start position" mod for more varied starts, and the region trading mod for clearing up ugly borders. And the turn time destroyer mod before CA made ME significantly faster. None of these mods mess with unit balance, and I enjoyed the game a lot.
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Jul 19, 2022 20:45
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DaysBefore posted:As a first campaign I'd recommend one of the Cathay lords imo. Kislev (which includes the aforementioned bear rider Kostaltyn) is pretty hectic and can be difficult to manage, even coming off Warhammer 2. ScootsMcSkirt posted:im glad that mods exist and ppl like them but ive put in hundreds of hours in all three games without mods and im looking forward to several more hundreds of hours  "a Dwarf Thane cannot fight Sniktch and two Skaven Assassin heroes and win"
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Jul 19, 2022 20:47
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ScootsMcSkirt posted:im glad that mods exist and ppl like them but ive put in hundreds of hours in all three games without mods and im looking forward to several more hundreds of hours same, I respect a lot of the hard work modders have done, they clearly have a lot of fans and I'm glad those people can enjoy the game with mods, it's a win win to me. That said I've never used a mod in 1 or 2 and doubt I will in 3 and have had a perfectly lovely utter waste of weeks of my life dumped into those games.
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Jul 19, 2022 20:48
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Norsca should get the Barbarian from HeroQuest who leads a neutral/order subfaction with fewer monsters and more LOINCLOTHS
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Jul 19, 2022 20:53
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Man, I know technically now the game has much bigger faction diversity, but I really miss how different the factions were in Warhammer 1. When VC had the strongest magic but no range, When Elves had really strong central HQ but could not colonize (only outposts). When Norsca could only colonize coastal provinces and use them as beachhead to launch deep raids. Technically there is a much larger faction variety now, but in reality they will all play the same. Ranged is king. Distract units while you shoot them to death, and maybe use a spell or two. That's it. What's interesting is that it seems that this is what most players of WHF want, not deep mechanics or anything. In fact, they start to complain about anything that distracts from open plain battles where you mash monsters against monsters. Everything is blending together, everything is becoming the same, while the only different thing is unit models.
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Jul 19, 2022 21:07
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Savy Saracen salad posted:What's interesting is that it seems that this is what most players of WHF want, not deep mechanics or anything. In fact, they start to complain about anything that distracts from open plain battles where you mash monsters against monsters. Everything is blending together, everything is becoming the same, while the only different thing is unit models. I’m not sure I agree. Sure, there’s now more overlap between certain specific factions, but the gap for what’s *possible* has expanded. Your Dark Elves/High Elves/Wood Elves are definitely playing to the same theme but any one Elf faction is a very different experience than Kislev or the Vampire Coast. As far as complaining about distracting from open field battles, that’s a vocal minority IMO. Some people want MP, some people autobattle everything, some truly insane people even want a mix of battles.
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Jul 19, 2022 21:19
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Savy Saracen salad posted:Man, I know technically now the game has much bigger faction diversity, but I really miss how different the factions were in Warhammer 1. When VC had the strongest magic but no range, When Elves had really strong central HQ but could not colonize (only outposts). When Norsca could only colonize coastal provinces and use them as beachhead to launch deep raids. Technically there is a much larger faction variety now, but in reality they will all play the same. Ranged is king. Distract units while you shoot them to death, and maybe use a spell or two. That's it. Most of that difference was varying degrees of coping with how awful the factions were(compared to now!), especially as they started crashing into better overall design from WH2 on. And all the things you said are still true? VC still have no range and are getting a heavy rebalancing. Wood Elves have strong central HQs, outposts only and can teleport between giant trees to encourage them to do things instead of hiding at their start point and farming Mil Alliance for amber(but it's still an option.) Norsca's differences make it the worst campaign faction by far, pathetically weak and clunky. There's faction overlap for sure but there's 20+ factions with relatively good balance and most of them have distinct flavor and function. And looking back at WH1 faction and roster options or WH2 release rosters and having a hearty god drat laugh. People were excited to play Skaven with "they're like Empire but their front line is insanely lovely and their campaign mechanics are terrible and self-destructive." Greenskins were a reasonable rush faction but joined Norsca and Beastmen in the bottom 3 of actual map mechanics, including winning gems like an awful tech tree you weren't allowed to use until you made an off-niche building.
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Jul 19, 2022 21:26
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Lol that they named the Fimir NPC after the Irish word for Peat. A unit caps mod solves most of these toolbox faction issues. Chaos was always imba on paper, points requirements in the table top kept things mostly sane. I'm happy to see as much of the tabletop make it into the game as possible, this is WHFB now. That WH1 races aren't being left behind is a good thing.
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Jul 19, 2022 21:30
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I mean I agree that playing the armour piercing ranged meta is boring and lame imo, but you can just not recruit those units. Even outside of the unit cap mods - and I do recommend those myself - playing in a suboptimal but more fun and cool way is always a personal choice.
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Jul 19, 2022 21:34
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I've definitely done fun gimmick runs. Malus gets a lot of grief as dull but I ran a cavalry heavy army on him and never used demon mode because a button for guaranteed growth and PO made VH a breeze. quote:What's interesting is that it seems that this is what most players of WHF want, not deep mechanics or anything. In fact, they start to complain about anything that distracts from open plain battles where you mash monsters against monsters. Everything is blending together, everything is becoming the same, while the only different thing is unit models. The primary complaint people had was that WH3 headlined a campaign where all the extra steps felt bad and clunky. I think players are up for strategic depth: WH2 Imrik, Snikch, Skarsnik are some of the better campaigns if you really want to think and get challenged. People aren't big fans of campaigns like Arkhan and Khatep, where the handicaps are so severe they're overwhelming. People can appreciate holding out as Kislev, having every AI in the map go insane suicidal and rush you for 100+ turns is a bit much. Even Belegar can feel pretty bad despite having the same pitch as Skarsnik since his gimmick is so crushing it makes you abuse cheesing fights with Ghosts. That's in my opinion though, I preferred the dangerous pace and need for smart moves Skarsnik gave me... Belegar just weighed down my budget and gave me super SEMs to make up for it. Dumb poo poo that makes factions different at the cost of efficiency with no balancing positives like "Norsca has a terrible economy and limited settlement options and 5 turn global recruitment" doesn't make them interesting and more varied unless you think the more handicapped a faction is the more interesting it is, which sure, a challenge is nice now and then, but that's not really a good identity. "Ah, this faction is Bad, unlike Well Made factions!" Factions will run together somewhat when all are raised to a level of minimum competency. It's up to CA from there to make them shine and they mostly do a good job, my only gripe being I think sometimes they get too easy but even that adds faction variety. Want a relaxing stomp? Taurox and Skarbrand got you covered. The easy modes have their place. Honestly, the faction variety is impressive overall. Very few LLs have the same game even in the same faction.
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Jul 19, 2022 21:47
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My desire is someone, not me, to go ahead and update game 3 with cost based army caps mod from game 2.
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Jul 19, 2022 21:51
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ChickenHeart posted:Norsca should get the Barbarian from HeroQuest who leads a neutral/order subfaction with fewer monsters and more LOINCLOTHS Honestly this would be cool as poo poo -- something like Drycha in that you're completely at odds with the rest of your faction. Human and animal units only, and both Chaos and Order hate the poo poo out of you at first so you have a few different choices: A) beat up Chaos enough that the order factions realize you're actually one of the good guys and open up diplomatic relations B) Go after Chaos on your own without Order's help, even raiding their settlements to finance your own private war against Chaos C) Abandon Norsca entirely and colonize Lustria/Southlands/Cathay/whatever, until Chaos or other Norscans hunt you down for being a traitor Hire me as the Ideas Guy, CA
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Jul 19, 2022 22:24
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Third World Reagan posted:My desire is someone, not me, to go ahead and update game 3 with cost based army caps mod from game 2. Is it lua based? Because Ive got 2 days off.....
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Jul 19, 2022 22:25
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Dandywalken posted:Is it lua based? Because Ive got 2 days off.....  https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1723390103 I assume it is.
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Jul 19, 2022 22:26
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There's a ton of good mods but none of them are exactly necessary. The only ones I truly miss when it isn't working is the skip intro movies one, and the respec button. Beyond that, it's just tweaks to taste. I'm basically running vanilla+. I loving hope these changes translate to Chaos having a bigger presence on the map. I want to be loving SCARED of Chaos, dammit.
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Jul 19, 2022 22:56
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The problem with balance is you got these do it all units like silverin guard, grave guard, and WE spearmen mostly because of a tiny roster but every one of those factions has a huge loving repertoire of other units and spells to fall back on. It's dumb as hell that longbeards don't have silver shields or magic attacks. It's a weak argument saying, 'oh they got guns shoot things!' mother fucker that's like saying VC's got blood knights they don't need infantry! It's all about variety and i've never seen forcing a faction into such a niche especially on the campaign. I remember the dark days of beastmen where poo poo was all bestigors and minos because their roster was garbage. Unit variety ensures that on turn 100 you're not gonna quit because you're fighting the same battle over and over again because it's the only thing that works. The streamers agree with me, they got countless videos about how almost the entire dawi roster isn't used. The only other faction pigeon holed like this is pirate coast but even then they have tools. Imagine trying to play a campaign where you only get to use 3-4 units on the roster because the rest are just a waste of unit cards. If there weren't mods i'd have stopped playing so drat long ago.
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Jul 19, 2022 23:07
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Arghy posted:The problem with balance is you got these do it all units like silverin guard, grave guard, and WE spearmen mostly because of a tiny roster but every one of those factions has a huge loving repertoire of other units and spells to fall back on. It's dumb as hell that longbeards don't have silver shields or magic attacks. It's a weak argument saying, 'oh they got guns shoot things!' mother fucker that's like saying VC's got blood knights they don't need infantry! It's all about variety and i've never seen forcing a faction into such a niche especially on the campaign. I remember the dark days of beastmen where poo poo was all bestigors and minos because their roster was garbage. Unit variety ensures that on turn 100 you're not gonna quit because you're fighting the same battle over and over again because it's the only thing that works. You could also play as someone other than Dwarves.
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Jul 19, 2022 23:09
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Arghy posted:The problem with balance is you got these do it all units like silverin guard, grave guard, and WE spearmen mostly because of a tiny roster but every one of those factions has a huge loving repertoire of other units and spells to fall back on. It's dumb as hell that longbeards don't have silver shields or magic attacks. It's a weak argument saying, 'oh they got guns shoot things!' mother fucker that's like saying VC's got blood knights they don't need infantry! It's all about variety and i've never seen forcing a faction into such a niche especially on the campaign. I remember the dark days of beastmen where poo poo was all bestigors and minos because their roster was garbage. Unit variety ensures that on turn 100 you're not gonna quit because you're fighting the same battle over and over again because it's the only thing that works. arghy i love you and never want you to stop posting also 'the streamers agree with me' isn't exactly the ringing endorsement you might hope it is
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Jul 19, 2022 23:09
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Magic attack is nice, but isn't needed on a team with lots of AP. Physical resist isn't as amazing as some people think.
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Jul 19, 2022 23:17
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Arghy, this is for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmAnFMb1aoo
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Jul 19, 2022 23:21
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i just started a Thorek campaign. Im not very far but its pretty fun trying to chase down relics and build up cool items to give to my angry dwarves. I had Gotrek and Felix, but they seemed kinda useless? They couldnt level up and after 30 turns they just disappear. Also, they were pretty bad in combat, poor Felix would turn tail and run whenever the battle started to get difficult. Do you lose all the troops/items they have on them when they leave? Arghy, what are the 3-4 units worth using? Would like to know before I start to build up my provinces too much. Been leaning on quarrelers, grudge-throwers, and dwarf warriors so far
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Jul 19, 2022 23:24
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"Dwarves have only one way to play and that is guns" - a long time Dawi shitposter who has NEVER played an Ungrim campaign, apparently. Look, you guys are mistaking PLAYING MOST EFFICIENTLY for ONLY WAY TO WIN. You can use 95% of the roster on VH/Normal and do whatever you want. Even if you go full Legend and do Legend/VH you can use 90% of the roster. What really changes is how hard it is, how much compensation you need to do on the campaign layer(where even on VH seasoned players win the game by the halfway mark and focus on accelerating their campaign goals for the official win), and how much time individual battles take. Nothing stops you from playing a slow Dwarf melee army, a Slayer heavy army, mixing and flanking, a Dawi Royal Air Force meme, a hero mash, mixing all of the above, or more aggressive and short ranged flanking fire lines, or stealth actions with rangers and spawning ahead of your army for sneaky poo poo, or mass bombing miners. Really the Dawi weakness here is their roster is a bit small, but you've made it dramatically smaller by brainwashing yourself into ARTILLERY BOX NO ITEMS FINAL DESTINATION.
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Jul 19, 2022 23:32
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Third World Reagan posted:Magic attack is nice, but isn't needed on a team with lots of AP. Physical resist isn't as amazing as some people think. Eh, it depends on the amount. Once you get over 50% it's legitimately a serious reduction in incoming damage. Incorporeal units, even with the reduction, are an extreme pain to deal with if you don't have magic weapons. On the other hand, Daemons and their 20% isn't a huge deal - I think I saw it compared to being roughly 27 armor in terms of damage reduction, which isn't nothing but is certainly still a value that can be reasonably dealt with even if you can't pierce it.
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Jul 19, 2022 23:40
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Arghy posted:The problem with balance is you got these do it all units like silverin guard, grave guard, and WE spearmen mostly because of a tiny roster but every one of those factions has a huge loving repertoire of other units and spells to fall back on. It's dumb as hell that longbeards don't have silver shields or magic attacks. It's a weak argument saying, 'oh they got guns shoot things!' mother fucker that's like saying VC's got blood knights they don't need infantry! It's all about variety and i've never seen forcing a faction into such a niche especially on the campaign. I remember the dark days of beastmen where poo poo was all bestigors and minos because their roster was garbage. Unit variety ensures that on turn 100 you're not gonna quit because you're fighting the same battle over and over again because it's the only thing that works. What the gently caress are you talking about? The Dawi have plenty of viable units, both for SP and MP. If you're going to complain about their roster, Longbeards aren't where to start - their biggest problem is that they lean so hard into Slayers.
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Jul 19, 2022 23:44
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Lord Koth posted:Eh, it depends on the amount. Once you get over 50% it's legitimately a serious reduction in incoming damage. Incorporeal units, even with the reduction, are an extreme pain to deal with if you don't have magic weapons. On the other hand, Daemons and their 20% isn't a huge deal - I think I saw it compared to being roughly 27 armor in terms of damage reduction, which isn't nothing but is certainly still a value that can be reasonably dealt with even if you can't pierce it. Yeah the 20% resist for demons is whatever. Savage orcs (at least in SFO) also get physical resist at around that level and it's not really very important, but ghost units even with the reduced amount of it can be a real pain in the rear end if you don't have magic damage, genuinely worried for the dwarfs vs the vamps at the moment if they go ghost heavy in particular because of the gigantic AP damage. Some sort of unit that can do magic damage reliably would be a good add I think, you could even give it to a unit that isn't really very good at the moment like longbeards or great weapon rangers. (longbeards are fine but I think they sit in an awkward middle ground between regular infantry and stuff like ironbreakers or hammerers, not a lot of use in campaign for slightly elite infantry.) OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 19, 2022 |
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Jul 19, 2022 23:45
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ScootsMcSkirt posted:i just started a Thorek campaign. Im not very far but its pretty fun trying to chase down relics and build up cool items to give to my angry dwarves. I had Gotrek and Felix, but they seemed kinda useless? They couldnt level up and after 30 turns they just disappear. Also, they were pretty bad in combat, poor Felix would turn tail and run whenever the battle started to get difficult. Do you lose all the troops/items they have on them when they leave? Late game dawi army is 4 units of ironbreakers/longbeards, 4 artillery pieces, 2 weapons teams, 2 gyros, 3 heroes(one of each type), and 4 ranged units. You huddle in a corner and hope you kill the problematic units before they get to you because all your melee units do not trade upwards. If your ranged units can't shoot then you're dead because everything will beat your units. Third World Reagan posted:Arghy, this is for you That's for MP on campaign you can increase the resist AND add missile resist. We can't judge too much especially since it's beta but giving elite dawi infantry magic attack costs literally nothing and is lore appropriate. A better argument is why not give slayers, ironbreakers, and hammerers magic attacks? What dynamic would it break to give them that.
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Jul 19, 2022 23:47
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Arghy posted:The problem with balance is you got these do it all units like silverin guard, grave guard, and WE spearmen mostly because of a tiny roster but every one of those factions has a huge loving repertoire of other units and spells to fall back on. It's dumb as hell that longbeards don't have silver shields or magic attacks. It's a weak argument saying, 'oh they got guns shoot things!' mother fucker that's like saying VC's got blood knights they don't need infantry! It's all about variety and i've never seen forcing a faction into such a niche especially on the campaign. I remember the dark days of beastmen where poo poo was all bestigors and minos because their roster was garbage. Unit variety ensures that on turn 100 you're not gonna quit because you're fighting the same battle over and over again because it's the only thing that works. OK. I had a quick glance on google for dwarf multiplayer less than two years ago (so in range of the latest patches). Example 1: Ungrim, Thane, Runesmith, 2 Miners with Blasting Charges, 3 longbeards, RoR dwarf warriors, 2 slayers, Slayer RoR, 2 Irondrakes, flame cannon. 10 different unit types (8 if we ignore RoR). Example 2 had in addition to the previous Thorgrim, Felix, Trollhammer torpedos, normal miners. Example 3 went wide - in addition to the previous it had a Runelord, dwarf warriors, giant slayers, quarrelers, thunderers. 19 unit types in three battles. I skipped the next one - too old - but the one after that had cannon, rangers with axes, the ranger RoR, and cannon. The one after that had Grombrindal, longbeards with great weapons, and gyrocopters. And the one after that had a standard lord, two engineers, warriors with greatweaponss, gyrobombers, and the gyrobomber RoR (unless I've switched the copters and the bombers in which case the last two were the other way round). Empirically therefore there is a huge range of multiplayer-viable dwarf units. I did need to go deep to find something with hammerers and ironbreakers admittedly. Most of the dwarf roster is viable in multiplayer. And in singleplayer the red line can make most things work. As for singleplayer, it depends what difficulty setting you are on - the AI always trades upwards in melee. This isn't a problem with the Dawi roster - it's a problem with the very hard melee difficulty setting in TWW2 (which is one of the fixes in 3). You do realise that you can lower that while keeping the campaign difficulty high?
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Jul 20, 2022 00:10
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gonna need a reason to give it to them in the first place lore sure, but lore is an awful reason if lore was the reason, empire swordsmen would have way higher stats lore is a reason to sell toys to manchildren
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Jul 20, 2022 00:10
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In other, non-dwarf news, is the new daemon lord making the Disco Elysium smirk in the unit cart in this image, or am I just imagine things? 
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Jul 20, 2022 00:11
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