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Plenty of companies will give more info than y'all believe, apparently. Some will just say dates and eligible/non eligible, some will say whether you voluntarily left, were fired, or laid off, and smaller ones especially will feel free to say exactly why you were let go and what their personal opinion of your work is. Assuming that "99/100" or whatever only give the bare minimum info is simply not true.
Parallelwoody fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jul 16, 2022 |
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Jul 16, 2022 19:07
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Sundae posted:Yeah, but almost certainly nope. At bare minimum, the follow-up post claiming to be his wife is fake. It's interesting how reddit has become the world's unofficial but universally understood go-to site for writing and reading creative fiction.
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Jul 16, 2022 19:53
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My most recent background check involved the verification company asking “would you rehire this person?”; I think it can be assumed to be part of all rigorous checks going forward. That being said, there is definitely litigation risk for anyone who answers “no” to that question so in most cases I wouldn’t expect it to be a problem. E: I am willing to believe that many small business owners do not know this and are quite willing to talk poo poo about ex employees. This is unwise.
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Jul 18, 2022 14:48
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There is almost no litigation risk to answering "no", which is why that question exists. Talking poo poo can have litigation consequences since you have damages and if you lie (and people lie a lot) then that's slander. Saying "This person is not eligible for rehire" is a true statement which is an absolute defense of slander.
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Jul 18, 2022 15:07
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Background Check is back and I was given the all clear this morning. I start new job on 8/1
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Jul 19, 2022 22:10
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Pillowpants posted:Background Check is back and I was given the all clear this morning. 
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Jul 19, 2022 22:28
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Jul 19, 2022 22:39
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Pillowpants posted:Background Check is back and I was given the all clear this morning. 
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Jul 19, 2022 23:26
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Pillowpants posted:Background Check is back and I was given the all clear this morning. Congrats! Glad your saga has come to a satisfactory conclusion
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Jul 19, 2022 23:41
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Pillowpants posted:Background Check is back and I was given the all clear this morning. 
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Jul 19, 2022 23:44
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Pillowpants posted:Background Check is back and I was given the all clear this morning. Congratulations! In other good news, I'll have a new opportunity to practice what I've been taught here!
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Jul 20, 2022 00:44
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Pillowpants posted:Background Check is back and I was given the all clear this morning. 
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Jul 20, 2022 22:03
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Old company asked what they could do to get me to stay, heh.
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Jul 21, 2022 02:33
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Pillowpants posted:Old company asked what they could do to get me to stay, heh. Nothing. Goodbye.
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Jul 21, 2022 09:17
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Pillowpants posted:Old company asked what they could do to get me to stay, heh. The stuff I've heard and read all says to never even entertain a counteroffer. Simply say that the decision is final.
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Jul 21, 2022 09:34
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Pillowpants posted:Old company asked what they could do to get me to stay, heh. Feels good man.
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Jul 21, 2022 10:56
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Magnetic North posted:The stuff I've heard and read all says to never even entertain a counteroffer. Simply say that the decision is final. That feels like bad advice. Why would you start out from a position of non-negotiation? You should keep in mind why you decided to leave. If it's "I hate my boss" then a 25% raise isn't a good counteroffer. But knowing that such an offer is possible is valuable information all the same IMO. You could even re-open negotiation with your new company: "my current employer just made a counteroffer of $x. I'm still really excited to come work for you so do you think you can match this?" I think a lot of this thread is of the opinion that your current job must have treated you like crap for you to be looking to leave. Even if the culture was fine, they didn't give you a raise or promotion when you deserved it. Therefore, gently caress 'em and don't look back. I'm not arguing for loyalty, but I think your new job will also not give you a raise or promotion you deserve. Therefore, if the only reason you want to change jobs is money and your old job is suddenly offering more, why not consider it? Again, common anti-counter wisdom is that now you've shown disloyalty and you'll be replaced immediately with someone cheaper. But that's true already -- if someone offered to do your job for 80% pay you'd be out on your rear end no matter how loyal you are.
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Jul 21, 2022 12:14
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I disagree with the above, the company wouldn't be suddenly offering you more money, it would be an admission of taking the piss out of the value of your services. Everyone wants more money, everyone's boss doesn't want to pay more. Fact of life, sunrise sunset etc. If you are worth more money but your boss doesn't want to pay it cause they don't think you have the minerals to just leave then gently caress them. Going back to them and saying "well somebody thinks I'm worth it" with a better offer in hand hoping they will match or beat it just seems like folly. All of the points about not accepting a counter are true unless you are already easily replaceable.
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Jul 21, 2022 13:08
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There’s also the practical matter that if you negotiate a raise even in the best of times there’s all the more incentive to start looking for your cheaper replacement. Counteroffers should only be accepted under the circumstance that there is an understanding that your role will be recontextualized by the new pay/responsibilities Example: buddy of mine was making $115k at a company that he worked and excelled at for 5 years. He figured his time there had run its course, so he started looking. Got an offer for $150k, put in his notice. His boss and the CEO freaked out and took concrete action. They offered him $170k and a director role. He accepted with the understanding that he would be calling shots in terms of design and hiring (which he had a strong role in anyway but was compensated far less because that’s what companies do if you let them).
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Jul 21, 2022 13:11
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deported to Canada posted:I disagree with the above, the company wouldn't be suddenly offering you more money, it would be an admission of taking the piss out of the value of your services. In a corporate setting, your boss usually wants to pay you more too. It makes her job much easier. The naysayer is usually much higher up in the organization.
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Jul 21, 2022 13:30
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deported to Canada posted:
I have never worked anywhere where anyone below the C-Suite had the power to unilaterally and quickly grant raises. That trope is not realistic, your boss doesn't really get any direct benefit from your lower salary and frequently has few levers to use to increase it dramatically. You having a counter offer can make that possible. While I think generally it's better not to take a counter, there are definitely reasons to consider it in certain situations. I think pp had enough going on that it probably doesn't make sense but I've seen it work out positively enough times that I think your kind of thinking based on a misunderstanding of how front line management works in today's world is why people think people's bosses are "holding out on them." Not a Children posted:There’s also the practical matter that if you negotiate a raise even in the best of times there’s all the more incentive to start looking for your cheaper replacement. Counteroffers should only be accepted under the circumstance that there is an understanding that your role will be recontextualized by the new pay/responsibilities I agree with the second part but I think "your boss starts looking for a cheaper replacement" is also outdated. People are expensive to replace, and expensive to train, and you just showed your replacement market rate is already higher. What it does do is kill your political capital in most situations making further moves a lot more difficult. It's probably best used to take another step rather than just a straight pay raise like you mentioned, especially if the place is smaller.
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Jul 21, 2022 13:44
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Mniot posted:That feels like bad advice. Why would you start out from a position of non-negotiation? There are definitely companies that exist where it's known that the only way to get a raise is to get an offer somewhere else. In those jobs, you likely won't get put on the disloyal/too expensive/chop first list, but at the same time... why the hell would you keep working there? That means they know other places are paying better/market rates and they're just holding out and being cheap. Might as well move onto somewhere that might not be so drat cheap. (And yeah I've worked for a company like this before and did the whole counteroffer-to-get-a-raise thing. I didn't know any better because it was my first non-part-time office job, but I sure as hell know better now.)
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Jul 21, 2022 14:29
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Lockback posted:I agree with the second part but I think "your boss starts looking for a cheaper replacement" is also outdated. People are expensive to replace, and expensive to train, and you just showed your replacement market rate is already higher. But think of the savings now that they aren't paying you anymore 
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Jul 21, 2022 14:32
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Lol I've practically begged directs to get a counter so I can go wave it at HR or they can go get paid somewhere else because I know they're worth more but can't do anything without the leverage. However, some managers love their illusion of power, mistake themselves for owners or have compensation tied to staff salaries. So, caveat worker.
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Jul 21, 2022 14:50
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We've been over it many times already in this thread so I won't belabor it further, but I think Lockback is mistaken about this. His perspective may be skewed because he's been blessed with a career path where he doesn't realize how normal it is for corporations to agree to an about-to-depart employee's ask just as a temporary measure, because it's better/cheaper for the company to part ways with the employee on a timetable of their choosing. In many industries the job market is super tight right now, so the timetable for "we've worked out a cheaper replacement for you now so we're letting you go, here's a box to clean out your things" may turn out to be more like a couple years than the traditional 3-6 months. But the smart move is almost always to go work for the company that just demonstrated it actually values you at the higher salary. It definitely is valid and important to understand that when you ask your boss for a raise, you're asking the C-suite for a raise, and they do not give a poo poo about you. It will be strictly a cold business value decision (with inadequate information at that, because few people are dumb enough to expose the C-suite to reality) and your boss has nothing to do with it. The logic of "I like and trust my boss so I'll stay if they make promises etc." is wildly errant even if your boss is genuinely great. If your employer you just gave notice to actually genuinely values you and wants to keep you around long term, it will be immediately obvious, because something very much like this will happen: Not a Children posted:Example: buddy of mine was making $115k at a company that he worked and excelled at for 5 years. He figured his time there had run its course, so he started looking. Got an offer for $150k, put in his notice. His boss and the CEO freaked out and took concrete action. They offered him $170k and a director role. He accepted with the understanding that he would be calling shots in terms of design and hiring (which he had a strong role in anyway but was compensated far less because that’s what companies do if you let them). But it's rare.
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Jul 21, 2022 15:06
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I think it's totally fine to accept a counteroffer provided you are cognizant of the risks, if there are compelling other reasons to do so.
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Jul 21, 2022 15:33
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I think it's totally fine to accept a counteroffer provided you are cognizant of the risks, if there are compelling other reasons to do so. I think this is the best advice, I think its mostly not optimal but also not super crazy that it might be a good move at the time. I also don't see harm in getting a counter that you have no intention of taking, it gives you another data point on market.
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Jul 21, 2022 15:41
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Oops, something came up and I forgot I posted here, sorry  leper khan posted:What's your BATNA exactly?  as I haven't interviewed to get an offer elsewhere so far. I like the job and the new team so I don't necessarily want to bail to get the last couple % I might get elsewhere (not to mention I still have unvested shares).Suppose I had an offer for 20% more as the overall market seems to indicate, then just ask for a promotion and show that offer? Arquinsiel posted:This requires an examination as to why they can't. Whatever the answer to that is will probably be why you get told no. Hiring freeze/pause, like google's. We have money, and our area achieved 111% of the target YTD. So it's probably just to make wall street happy as the stonk's been in the shitter just like everyone's.
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Jul 21, 2022 15:46
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If you leave on good terms, some organizations love a good boomerang story when you come back after ~2 years.
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Jul 21, 2022 15:48
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mobby_6kl posted:Suppose I had an offer for 20% more as the overall market seems to indicate, then just ask for a promotion and show that offer? A note on doing this, only do this if you are 100% willing to take the offer if they don't match. Having a bluff called basically cements you as a guy who doesn't need any further compensation. Democratic Pirate posted:If you leave on good terms, some organizations love a good boomerang story when you come back after ~2 years. Also very true
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Jul 21, 2022 15:53
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Lockback posted:I think this is the best advice, I think its mostly not optimal but also not super crazy that it might be a good move at the time. I also don't see harm in getting a counter that you have no intention of taking, it gives you another data point on market. Definitely agree with this. In pillowpants' particular case though he was asked "what would it take to keep you?" So if he asks for $X and they agree to it he can't then back out without being the bad guy (even though it's likely they're forgetting to mention they intend to pay him only temporarily). That's different from them offering $X and you saying no. He can always say "I can't share the details of my new compensation package even indirectly, but I'll listen if you want to make an offer" or he can just name a number high enough that he would be willing to accept it and bear the risks. And a promotion, if that's a theoretical possibility in the org structure. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jul 21, 2022 |
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Jul 21, 2022 16:20
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I'm actually glad my boss decided not to make me an offer, because I would have seriously considered it, although I doubt he would ever have matched anyway.
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Jul 21, 2022 19:12
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Eric the Mauve posted:He can just name a number high enough that he would be willing to accept it and bear the risks. I recently did this and they couldn’t get there. I think it’s perfectly reasonable, but I work (almost past tense) for a huge company with a very well established “dive and save” process. I have a friend who has successfully done it twice now and still hasn’t been replaced.
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Jul 21, 2022 21:53
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I think I might have spiked one of my upcoming negotiations by acknowledging that I'm not in a high cost-of-living area in the preliminary interview, but the other person was the one who told me what the ranges are, and they seemed all right to me, so maybe it's not as bad as it could be?
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Jul 22, 2022 00:53
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Eric the Mauve posted:
Quoting for truth. I wish I had seen this advice three years ago when I started pushing for a raise. My manager was (I believed) genuinely supportive and sent me down the track of having my position re-evaluated with HR, but when the time came to have it signed off by the C-suite they didn't want a bar of it. My manager would have known that the whole time. I appreciated her support but would have rather heard that the more practical solution was finding another job.
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Jul 22, 2022 10:29
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mobby_6kl posted:Hiring freeze/pause, like google's. We have money, and our area achieved 111% of the target YTD. So it's probably just to make wall street happy as the stonk's been in the shitter just like everyone's. Absurd Alhazred posted:I think I might have spiked one of my upcoming negotiations by acknowledging that I'm not in a high cost-of-living area in the preliminary interview, but the other person was the one who told me what the ranges are, and they seemed all right to me, so maybe it's not as bad as it could be?
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Jul 22, 2022 12:30
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Arquinsiel posted:Is the cost of living range big enough to be a significant percentage for the role? If you're 100% remote I can see it mattering, but if its butts in seat then I think the seat's CoL probably affects things more. It is remote, alas.
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Jul 22, 2022 15:58
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If the offer is still good by they'd pay you more if you were in a higher CoL area then consider it to be equivalent to the 25% premium you'd charge for making you get up before 9AM.
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Jul 22, 2022 16:01
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Eric the Mauve posted:Definitely agree with this. If you’ve been following my story here at all you’ll know I won’t take any sort of counter. I hired a temp in December 2020 after my employee quit to move up somewhere else. The idea was to FIL lthe gap before girl someone else. 5 months later, they offer the temp my loving job and move me down a notch (everybody involved in this was pushed out of the company later that year) so I’ve been reporting to a person I hired to report to me, for 14 months. She accepted it because she needed a job and honesty she’s awesome, and treated me as an equal the entire time - even got me a raise this year despite them telling me I wouldn’t get one. The reason it took me so long to find a role is 2 fold. The one shared here is that I have a bankruptcy on my record and it prevented me from moving to a few roles, but the reality is that I interviewed at 35 places, had 14 offers (besides the one rescinded) and they all couldn’t meet what I wanted. My wife is a SAHM and one of my kids is autistic so I needed the insurance to be good. This new company is literally helping the world and my base pay is a 50k bump…. And I’m probably taking the person who took my job with me because she hates the company too.
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Jul 22, 2022 17:21
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Good for you and your fam, goon. Sounds like a well earned achievement after some very hard work.
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Jul 22, 2022 23:14
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