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You could probably recut this episode to be less infuriating if you could make it look like they never put Danny on the controls, he was just hanging out in his anger corner (or up in Phoenix) because Ed put him on time out but the thing still blew up because the remaining guy was trying to do his dumb spreadsheets and operate the comms at the same time or it blew up because Ed or someone else forgot to bring the special space wrench because he was preoccupied fighting with Danny or it blew up because it turned out Helios repurposed a discount oil rig and didn't have the staff to verify whether it would work or it blew up because there's a goddamned sandworm they're drilling into, the spice must flow
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Jul 22, 2022 16:13
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"You have to walk without rhythm to not attract the sand worms " "I guess Ed can just walk normally"
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Jul 22, 2022 16:15
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How many astronauts did each mission start with and how many are left? edit: This show has a panel at SDCC tomorrow at 2:45 p.m. (assuming this is Pacific time) Spacebump fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 16:21
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ahtp0sjA5U
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Jul 22, 2022 17:14
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Sivart13 posted:You could probably recut this episode to be less infuriating if you could make it look like they never put Danny on the controls, he was just hanging out in his anger corner (or up in Phoenix) because Ed put him on time out Honestly the biggest mistake was having Ed know that he was popping pills, because there are just too many glaring questions that raises: Why wasn't he searched and all his pills confiscated? Why wasn't the drug cabinet secured properly? Why isn't he either confined to quarters or under constant observation by the doctor? Why is he still being given apparently important tasks if he's such an insubordinate, doped-up mess? This show has had a lot of forced dramatic moments, but by and large it's been at least somewhat believable or tolerable by TV fiction standards. But this one was a bit too much of a piss-take by the writers. I mean, if Ed just thought he was too much of a pussy who couldn't handle the pressure or whatever, then it would have worked ok: by Ed's dumbass toxic masculinity logic, he would have been giving Danny a chance to show he's a man, just like when he goaded Gordo before their test flight in season 2. But it doesn't make a lick of sense if Ed knows he's tripping balls, and everyone else on the crew knows it too now, Jesus. Spacebump posted:How many astronauts did each mission start with and how many are left? The NASA mission started with 6. Two died in the incident with the Soviet ship, so they're down to 4: Danielle, Will, Kelly, and the Russian defector guy who's name I've forgotten The Soviets started with 5. They lost one guy in that incident, so they were down to 4, but who knows how many they've just lost in the drilling disaster (the cosmonaut the show was focusing on getting caught in the debris at the end there might have been Alexei, I think). I have no idea how many the HELIOS people have in total. On the Phoenix itself there could be dozens. But on the surface there seems to be six of them: Ed, Danny, Nick, the short-haired woman (Louisa?), the doctor guy and the older guy. Again, who knows how many of them were lost in the latest disaster (obviously not Ed and Danny).
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Jul 22, 2022 17:31
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Drunk in Space posted:Ed's dumbass toxic masculinity logic Drunk in Space posted:On the Phoenix itself there could be dozens.
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Jul 22, 2022 17:45
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Ugh agree this was a poor episode. It felt like an episode they needed to fill out the series, so much of it just didn't need to happen. Aleida didn't need to spend half an episode suspecting someone else to realise it was Margo. Jimmy didn't need to spend half an episode getting all pally with Nasa only for his friends to steal a statue. The Ed/Danny plotline is getting tired and putting Danny in charge of a critical part of the mission was such an obviously bad idea it feels contrived. I'm going to go against the grain and say I don't hate what's happening with Ellen, but at the same time the rest of the episode is just dragging that down. The saving grace is that, outside of the shot of them eating their food sadly, we didn't see much of the Nasa astronauts. That means they're probably going to get a big part of the next episode (mounting a rescue mission). I think we're going to look back after the next one and say they could have probably compressed it together and dropped a few plots, and nothing of value was lost. The overall quality of the season is still up there though.
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Jul 22, 2022 18:05
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Drunk in Space posted:Honestly the biggest mistake was having Ed know that he was popping pills, because there are just too many glaring questions that raises: Why wasn't he searched and all his pills confiscated? Why wasn't the drug cabinet secured properly? Why isn't he either confined to quarters or under constant observation by the doctor? Why is he still being given apparently important tasks if he's such an insubordinate, doped-up mess? This show has had a lot of forced dramatic moments, but by and large it's been at least somewhat believable or tolerable by TV fiction standards. But this one was a bit too much of a piss-take by the writers. I mean, if Ed just thought he was too much of a pussy who couldn't handle the pressure or whatever, then it would have worked ok: by Ed's dumbass toxic masculinity logic, he would have been giving Danny a chance to show he's a man, just like when he goaded Gordo before their test flight in season 2. But it doesn't make a lick of sense if Ed knows he's tripping balls, and everyone else on the crew knows it too now, Jesus. Everyone on that team just seems incredibly incompetent. I guess Ed attempted to handle it by putting Danny on what should be the easiest job, comms. But then guatamala hiker guy decides he just has to run some numbers during a really important and stressful drilling operation. Then, instead of Danny saying "hey something's happening and I can't handle it" he just turns the radios off. If Danny can't handle listening to a radio and flipping a switch, how the gently caress did he put his space suit on during an emergency? I guess they realized they needed people to help drag the injured people back to the habs, which means Danny has to be out there. Plus, they probably want Ed and Danny in a hab alone so Ed can go sickhouse on him for being so incompetent, and the only way to do that is for Danny to magically compose himself enough to put a space suit on and be out there helping Ed in.
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Jul 22, 2022 18:10
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Drunk in Space posted:The NASA mission started with 6. Two died in the incident with the Soviet ship, so they're down to 4: Danielle, Will, Kelly, and the Russian defector guy who's name I've forgotten This really drives home what a catastrophe the Mars missions have been, almost entirely due to human error. The Russian ship malfunctions due to the choice of making a dangerous burn to get ahead in the race resulting in three casualties (nearly a third of their combined crews). Next, Dani makes the decision to land during a dust storm in order to beat HELIOS to the surface and destroys the Sojourner's engines in the process. Then Speedball Danny shuts off comms at a crucial moment in the drilling mission leading to an explosion and god knows how many deaths/casualties. Are we sure we are sending our best?? So many unforced errors. Space is hard enough without all of this human folly. Also, the FAM wiki says that the crew of the Phoenix numbers "more than 15". I thought I heard 16 in an earlier episode.
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Jul 22, 2022 18:12
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Really want to know if the water/potential life is ruined now I'm going to be bummed when this season ends. This show is so much fun.
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Jul 22, 2022 18:35
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I'm not getting the Kelly "lifeforms in the water" subplot. Even if they find it, in the short term the need for water eclipses any other considerations I'd think. This can't be the only water on the planet with life in it.
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Jul 22, 2022 18:45
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Laughing Zealot posted:I'm not getting the Kelly "lifeforms in the water" subplot. Even if they find it, in the short term the need for water eclipses any other considerations I'd think. This can't be the only water on the planet with life in it. Even if there is no use for the life, the discovery would be the biggest in human history.
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Jul 22, 2022 18:46
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I think the Danny gently caress up sequence would have worked if Ed has confronted him in private as he should have. Then hiker dude wouldn’t be so negligent for stepping away for a moment and putting Danny in charge of comms - he’d still know Danny is a toy-murderer but not that he’s abusing drugs.
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Jul 22, 2022 18:57
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Spacebump posted:Even if there is no use for the life, the discovery would be the biggest in human history. Yeah I'm probably just not really a fan of her characterization of being the only one on the planet capable of vetting life/no life in the water. Although thinking about it's somewhat a missed opportunity not having the Polaris mission refocusing on that goal to be the first after missing out on the landing, but that would cast the Musk character in far too good a light I guess. Weird how Molly has just disappeared.
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Jul 22, 2022 19:20
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"You think I haven't seen a writer on 'go pills' before? You're a loving mess. And now you're stomping on my show." - RDM to Nichole Beattie
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Jul 22, 2022 19:28
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Well I'm a bad TV watcher because I missed this: what exactly is the problem with the statue? Those guys think there was some sort of coverup of the reactor problem in some way? Do they think the whole thing was fake?
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Jul 22, 2022 19:42
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Unkempt posted:Well I'm a bad TV watcher because I missed this: what exactly is the problem with the statue? Those guys think there was some sort of coverup of the reactor problem in some way? Do they think the whole thing was fake? That's basically the entire plot with his friends, they're conspiracy theorists who think the whole thing is a cover up (and it kinda was, since NASA doesn't want to admit there was a second reactor for making nuclear weapons material on the moon or some poo poo).
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Jul 22, 2022 19:43
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Unkempt posted:Well I'm a bad TV watcher because I missed this: what exactly is the problem with the statue? Those guys think there was some sort of coverup of the reactor problem in some way? Do they think the whole thing was fake? The gist of it is that the reactor meltdown was because they had a secret military reasons reactor on the moon that was not hooked up to the backup cooling loop that the main reactor had. The gunshot damaged the primary loop and NASA said that this almost caused a meltdown. Marine grunt guy's entire theory is based on the fact that he knew there was a backup loop for the reactor, so there was no way the base was in danger, because he didn't know about the other reactor. So they've spun the whole thing into a conspiracy that none of that stuff ever happened, and that Gordo and Tracy never made those DIY suits and never did whatever it was they did to stop the meltdown. Failson is being tricked into thinking his parents weren't heroes by some dipshit who thinks he is king of poo poo mountain with his inside info.
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Jul 22, 2022 19:55
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also who the gently caress calls sedatives "go pills." Wouldn't that be some kind of amphetamines?
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Jul 22, 2022 20:01
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blue squares posted:also who the gently caress calls sedatives "go pills." Wouldn't that be some kind of amphetamines? You have answered your own question, Danny is taking amphetamines.
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Jul 22, 2022 20:05
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Yes, he is taking handfuls of both dextroamphetamine and oxycodone. Ed acknowledges that Danny is taking a cocktail of drugs, saying something like "you are nodding out one minute and talking a mile a minute the next".
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Jul 22, 2022 20:50
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I'm sort of willing to give a pass on Ed's dumbass calls about Danny for two reasons. One, and this is the main one, Ed is and has always been a not very smart person with his emotions, and in a very hamfisted way this season has underlined time and again that Ed has conflicted feelings about and for Danny*. He's not objective, at all. Which in a sane work environment would mean that he'd remove himself from the decision making process and externalize it to Big Love or whoever is supposed to be second-in-command on Phoenix. Ed doesn't do this because of reason One. Reason two, and this still hinges on a lot of people making dumb decisions, but it seems somewhat plausible that there was never any much thought given to who would be the "police" on a space mission that lasts several years, and how that would work in practice. The Soviets might have had a gun or two on their ship in case of Martian bears, but I doubt Phoenix (tech-bro libertarians woo!) or Sojourner (NASA eggheads) would have even brought a taser. And the social dynamics of it, well we saw the general mood in the NASA base this episode where everyone has a grudge on someone else in the base, how exactly would it play out if Ed started putting people in house arrest? Who would enforce it? If Danny (in a scenario before the marsquake) got violent for his  , what then? Repeat the lunar experience with the captive cosmonaut?It's a stupid plotline that keeps getting dumber, though, there's no way around that  *This is obviously also grist for the mill for when Danny finally blurts out that I hosed YER WIFE, ED, and Ed will get emotional and do something very, very stupid Cojawfee posted:I don't even understand what we're supposed to feel for Ellen and Larry. Are conservatives supposed to empathize with them because they are Republicans and progressives supposed to empathize with them because they are gay? Ellen is just too lovely for me to care that something bad is happening to them. She joined the party that thinks she should not exist just because she likes lower taxes? She joined the party whose previous president watched his best friend die of AIDS and did nothing about it because the guy was gay and gays are icky. Her being outed would probably make things worse for gay people because it would generate some narrative that gay people are secretly infiltrating all of society to destroy christian values. I think Ellen is a Republican out of mostly emotional reasons. She's one of Nixon's women, and she got (some of) her career boosts from Tom, whose career in turn was carrying water for the Nixon and Reagan administrations. There's a scene in season 2 where Tom explains to Ellen that while he's a heartless careerist bastard on the outside, on the inside he really, really cares about space, and this is his way of participating, etc. Now since obviously this season's Ellen plotline is that Larry hosed her over viz Pam etc., Ellen "chose" to be a careerist for the wrong reasons from her perspective, and it's meant to be a tragedy I guess. Larry is just a careerist, though. The previous seasons have had a lot of "emotions driving people" - scenarios; Ed captured the cosmonaut because Ed is Ed and was going crazy on top of it, Danielle staged an international mutiny to shake hands with a cosmonaut (which turned out to be the deus ex machina that stopped the Cold War from going hot, in part!), Molly is blind because she couldn't let the goofy Dutch (?) boy die in the proton storm, Ed didn't nuke the Soviet shuttle on the far side of the Moon, etc. I'm sure I'm forgetting some other good ones too. But those for the most part were still compelling. They've not done a good job with the Danny-Ed dynamic this season, since Danny is coming apart at the seams and is a "villain", but Ed's hemming and hawing towards Danny is supposed to make Ed look like a good dude, somehow? I'm a little confused on this myself. And it seems like once the writers got Ellen into the White House, they can't really help themselves from working in the alt-history parallels to our time-line with DADT, and trying and IMO failing to tie this into Ellen's inner turmoil. This episode clearly shows she resents Larry, because he lives a double life and now it's going to gently caress them both, which implies to me that Ellen hasn't. That doesn't absolve her from being a lovely person towards other gay people!
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Jul 22, 2022 21:11
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I don't remember, did Larry tell Pam to stay away from Ellen last season or did she decide to do that on her own?
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Jul 22, 2022 21:27
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Rappaport posted:I think Ellen is a Republican out of mostly emotional reasons. She's one of Nixon's women, and she got (some of) her career boosts from Tom, whose career in turn was carrying water for the Nixon and Reagan administrations. There's a scene in season 2 where Tom explains to Ellen that while he's a heartless careerist bastard on the outside, on the inside he really, really cares about space, and this is his way of participating, etc. Now since obviously this season's Ellen plotline is that Larry hosed her over viz Pam etc., Ellen "chose" to be a careerist for the wrong reasons from her perspective, and it's meant to be a tragedy I guess. Larry is just a careerist, though. Right, and the show barely wades into her (or anyone else's) politics, save for those anti-tax hike campaign ads and her personal belief that DADT doesn't go far enough. She's the wealthy heiress to some sort of fortune which may also factor into her decision to be a pro-big business R.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:27
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TIP posted:You have answered your own question, Danny is taking amphetamines. Oh I thought he was only taking oxy
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Jul 22, 2022 21:29
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blue squares posted:Oh I thought he was only taking oxy Honestly the pill stealing scene was a little unclear to me too and I couldn't make out the labels. There was one part where it looked like a display on the case was showing that pills had been taken, like it has a weight sensor or something, and he looked at it and then opened the case again and started loving with more pills and for a second I thought he was swapping some tylenol or something into the bottles to cover his tracks but then he just started filling his pockets. What was with the display? Are they monitoring pills being removed or not? Seems like if they are and a bunch of controlled substances go missing it would alert the captain or something.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:39
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The space stuff has so far been good enough for me to overlook the boring drama but honestly it's getting close to where it's not gonna be worth it anymore. The ending was at least exciting, but as others have said having pill popping Danny in charge of anything important during that drilling mission was a dumb af way to get there. Honestly they should have spaced Danny a long time ago, I can't remember any show being so dragged down by a single character.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:03
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Also who the gently caress designed the space drill where the only control to stop the pressure from overloading it or whatever has to be done remotely? Especially when Ed is literally playing with some kind of throttle at the drill site. They should have put the "do not explode" button on there as well.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:19
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Panic! At The Tesco posted:Also who the gently caress designed the space drill where the only control to stop the pressure from overloading it or whatever has to be done remotely? Especially when Ed is literally playing with some kind of throttle at the drill site. They should have put the "do not explode" button on there as well. Turns out the private Space Agency isn't the best at designing things.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:25
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Panic! At The Tesco posted:Also who the gently caress designed the space drill where the only control to stop the pressure from overloading it or whatever has to be done remotely? Especially when Ed is literally playing with some kind of throttle at the drill site. They should have put the "do not explode" button on there as well. I guess Ben Affleck was wrong and Michael Bay was right, they should have brought drillers instead of astronauts.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:27
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blue squares posted:Oh I thought he was only taking oxy Its pretty trivial but I found it irritating that Danny's pupils constrict/dilate pretty much instantly after taking the two pills. Yeah, that’s how swallowing pills works.
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Jul 22, 2022 23:32
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine I believe it was this stuff.
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Jul 23, 2022 00:08
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Hold on to your butts, season 4 is on the launchpad 
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Jul 23, 2022 01:19
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Rappaport posted:Hold on to your butts, season 4 is on the launchpad What shennanigans will Danny get up to next? You did fent on the Europa mission?!? OH DANNY
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Jul 23, 2022 01:31
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Glad I'm not the only one bored and annoyed lately. The show's bread and butter (outrageous space catastrophes) is ruined by the continued existence of Danny (who isn't even on the receiving end of the disasters). I did shed a tear for Sergei.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:05
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Danny should make Ed gently caress him so he can see what the fuss is about.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:27
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I really wish this season had spent more time on the cool rear end space ships.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:34
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NASA is totally gonna get Oklahoma City'd
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Jul 23, 2022 02:40
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They never should have expanded the scope of the show to include the budget white house drama. The material isn't great and it's really pushing outside of the range of the actors they have doing it... looking at you Nate. Ellen should have gone to Mars and been the astronaut that comes out, keep the drama centered on established characters. Whatever is going on with failson/2015 Marty Mcfly should have been dropped. Why did the 90's garage band he hangs around with need a key card to steal a statue that is out in front of the building? Also, are we to believe that NASA doesn't have round the clock security? Deke Slayton wouldn't have put up with this poo poo.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:45
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the stevenses seem to have produced a family likely responsible for killing life on two planets
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Jul 23, 2022 02:49
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