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Though I’m also a Musou player who’s been playing poo poo like Dynasty Warriors 5. ....Wait, are you saying this in a 'veteran' sense or a '5 is strategic' sense or a '5 is bad' sense?
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Jul 22, 2022 17:50
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Bloodly posted:Though I’m also a Musou player who’s been playing poo poo like Dynasty Warriors 5. Moreso the former. Im not saying I'm a full on veteran, but Dynasty Warriors 5 was released in 2005 so I’ve been playing Musou games for quite some time.
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Jul 22, 2022 18:01
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Honestly "uhhh what am I doing again' is not even something to make fun of. As if you never get into a trance mowing down armors with magic just to lose because it's a defense map and your stronghold got captured. Right?
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Jul 22, 2022 18:21
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IIRC if you do Caspar and Lindhart's paralogue Count Bergliz has some in-battle dialogue going "Dang son you're kinda kicking rear end, maybe I should reconsider my heir, particularly after your idiot brother lost Fort Merceus." Also while it's Houses and not Hopes, I really like his support with Bernie. In usual direct fashion he straight up kidnaps her because he figures this is the fastest way to get her out of her room, but he does it so he can show her a beautiful sunset vista he found and thought she might like since she doesn't get out much except for battles. And while Bernie is understandably not happy about the whole kidnapping thing, it does plant the seed that maybe there are things outside that are beautiful rather than frightening. Caspar is a good boy. I do like the "why call a fortress a maiden???" scene though, if only because Dorothea's VA absolutely nails the delivery of her response.
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Jul 22, 2022 18:55
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Allegra Clark is perfect.
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Jul 22, 2022 19:00
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Clawtopsy posted:Allegra Clark is perfect. 
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Jul 22, 2022 19:09
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It’s been years since 3 Houses came out and I still can’t believe that she does both Dorothea and Shamir
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Jul 22, 2022 19:10
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Alacron posted:It’s been years since 3 Houses came out and I still can’t believe that she does both Dorothea and Shamir I am learning this now for the first time and would never have guessed professional VAs rule
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Jul 22, 2022 19:21
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The only VA I recognized in 3 Houses when it came out was Caspar’s because he was also Kensuke in the new Eva dub, which I still think is hilarious. He just sounds short apparently edit: it should be noted that literally every VA in these games does a good job which means that the dub director must be a drat all-star because there are so many characters that batting 1.000 feels like a miracle edit2: the director is also the voice of Jeritza clearly this man is a genius DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 19:26
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Ainsley McTree posted:I am learning this now for the first time and would never have guessed Caspar and Lorenz are also voiced by the same person.
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Jul 22, 2022 19:47
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DC Murderverse posted:The only VA I recognized in 3 Houses when it came out was Caspar’s because he was also Kensuke in the new Eva dub, which I still think is hilarious. He just sounds short apparently If you're familiar with MMOs, he also voiced Garrosh Hellscream in WoW, which is how I learned of his work. Also he is apparently Dio in Jojo's. Which means this game snags both Dio's since Japanese Seteth is also Dio. Which is a loving riot because he's just doing his Dio voice but he's saying all these nice things and you just wait for him to snap but he never does. But yeah the dub is outright amazing and even me who is a weeb who almost always plays any game made in Japan in Japanese, I prefer the dub here. Eimi fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 20:35
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Holy poo poo, Claude is darker in Three Hopes than Three Houses. Literally dissolving the Alliance and reforming it as a federation him as King and conducting schemes behind the backs of everyone. You could easily frame the story as him being a villain if the perspectives were different.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:28
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jimmydalad posted:Holy poo poo, Claude is darker in Three Hopes than Three Houses. tbh I'm surprised it's framed as positively as it is. There's not even a nod to "this is temporary for war" with Claude just being like yeah Lorentz is probably going to be the next king have fun and everyone is just joking about we're all turning into mini-claudes how quaint haha
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Jul 22, 2022 21:36
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Claude also straight up stabs you in the back on SB if you don't recruit Byleth (and does beforehand on a more minor scale and gets burned) and is absolutely framed as though he will attempt to assassinate Rhea in the future on AG despite their ostensible alliance. Claude is hilariously villainous in this game.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:48
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You know, there’s something that can be said about how charismatic Claude is and how it pretty much helps him completely upturn the system of governance to allow him full authority. If I was being charitable, I’d say the lack of blowback is due to how good Claude is at being public facing and him riding off his victories against Almyra and the Empire. You have Claude and Edelgard being intelligent strategists while Dimitri is either angry boi or unga bunga in comparison.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:49
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Clawtopsy posted:Allegra Clark is perfect. Yes she is.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:54
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jimmydalad posted:Holy poo poo, Claude is darker in Three Hopes than Three Houses. Just gotta wait for the conclusion to the next mission too. Claude is cold and it's great seeing him actually be morally ambiguous for once.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:01
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I've seen a lot of people crying online about how OOC Claude is in Three Hopes, which is funny, because to me it feels like he's being the character he was always stated to be now that he isn't shackled and forced to fit into a recycled Silver Snow storyline. Extremely sorry that the fanfictions of Claude being a perfect kindly softhearted bottom didn't line up with the way he is in canon.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:03
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Clawtopsy posted:I've seen a lot of people crying online about how OOC Claude is in Three Hopes, which is funny, because to me it feels like he's being the character he was always stated to be now that he isn't shackled and forced to fit into a recycled Silver Snow storyline. Extremely sorry that the fanfictions of Claude being a perfect kindly softhearted bottom didn't line up with the way he is in canon. I honestly thought the story of Claude and the Golden Deer in Three Houses was an afterthought. You could’ve put anyone else in Claude’s position and it wouldn’t change significantly. Meanwhile, Three Hopes is Claude not being forced into SS story and it’s great.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:11
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Yeah Hopes finally lets Claude be the shifty ends-justify-the-means schemer Houses tried to build him up as even though he did nothing there but impotently complain about how vague Seteth was being and that the church kinda sucked. He doesn't give a poo poo about Fodlan's traditions or existing power structures and is willing to do whatever it takes to topple Rhea de-segregate Fodlan from her neighbors, even if it means functionally seizing dictatorial power via political coup in the Alliance, or playing both sides of the Kingdom-Empire war. Honestly I don't even care if he's way OOC from the way he is in Houses, he's way more interesting here so who cares.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:22
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Frankly his Hopes personality explains a lot about why he threw in with the Church in Houses: respect for Rhea as a fellow schemer.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:26
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Yeah Claude is great now because I was always upset in Houses that Yuri felt like the one who Claude was meant to be. Hopes Claude just told Yuri to hold his beer and it's great.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:56
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I'm glad that all of the house leaders have moral ambiguity now.
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Jul 22, 2022 23:31
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I haven’t played Claude’s stuff but from what’s being discussed it doesn’t sound like ambiguity? He just sounds like a bad guy
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Jul 22, 2022 23:53
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Claude is fun in three hopes. I think the worst I can say about how he is handled is that no one calls him out on that it is not a good idea to screw over a new ally when they are in the process of paying you juicy reparations.
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Jul 22, 2022 23:57
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Ainsley McTree posted:I am learning this now for the first time and would never have guessed I discovered that when Nausicaa had a star-studded English dub release (gosh, back in 2005?); most of the celebrities just did their own voice but Mark Hamill can't be recognized unless you know it's him.
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Jul 23, 2022 00:04
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CharlestheHammer posted:I haven’t played Claude’s stuff but from what’s being discussed it doesn’t sound like ambiguity? He just sounds like a bad guy He's the good guy and not even all that morally ambiguous in the end. Not anymoreso than Edie at least. Honestly, I feel like everyone that's like "Wow Claude's such an rear end in a top hat villain this game. What happened to him???" are from people that have just heard about it and not actually played the game. Like, Claude's got grand designs and does some more scheming but he's portrayed pretty much as positively as in the original game and even his shadier poo poo is clearly stuff that he struggles with and that his pals are helping to curb.
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Jul 23, 2022 00:21
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SyntheticPolygon posted:He's the good guy and not even all that morally ambiguous in the end. Not anymoreso than Edie at least. Well I don’t particularly care how he’s portrayed because I can just chalk that up to bad writing. I care about what he does. Honestly he would be better if the game just went in on him being bad, having a villainous character that’s not as Cackling as Dimtri and the church isn’t a bad thing.
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Jul 23, 2022 00:33
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Every house leader is the good guy on their own route. As antagonists they tend to go down a darker path.
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Jul 23, 2022 00:33
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CharlestheHammer posted:Well I don’t particularly care how he’s portrayed because I can just chalk that up to bad writing. I care about what he does. Honestly he would be better if the game just went in on him being bad, having a villainous character that’s not as Cackling as Dimtri and the church isn’t a bad thing. You don't know what he does though! You said you haven't played his stuff.
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Jul 23, 2022 00:36
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I don't think spoiler bars in the something awful forum thread are really going to give you a complete look on the story or characters of Fire Emblem Three Hopes.
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Jul 23, 2022 00:37
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Claude was always like this, it’s just now people can't argue "he was winking when he said he was planning to install himself as supreme ruler so that means he was just joking".
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Jul 23, 2022 00:39
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The game frames it in a positive light but it’s the power of perspective that you could make small changes in how it’s presented and have Claude look villainous. It’s shades of Edie where they clearly have plans and changes they want to make. They are shrewd enough to put their ideas into action and are willing to make sacrifices if needed. I’m not yet at the second half of Claude’s route but while there is the air of “hey, this guy is super guarded and suspicious and keeps making plans without telling anyone,” there is also the fact that his strategies and out of the box thinking keep the Alliance from being steamrolled by the Empire. Holst probably would’ve been able to hold back Shahid on his own cause lol lmao Shahid, but it was only the machinations of Claude that let the Alliance even have a chance against Bergliz and Ferdinand. I feel like the game has done a decent job of having others be suspicious, but ultimately put their trust in Claude because most of the time, his plans end up being successful. Heck, Count Gloucester made the contingency that Claude had to succeed in defending Derdiu or he’d gently caress off to the Empire. It also helps that Claude, in general, is a nice and cheery guy, even if his smile doesn’t reach his eyes at times. He clearly cares about Leicester and made the Federation because having roundtables every time they needed to make a military move was stupid and a waste of time to the point they were spending most of their time on the back foot. He’s more cunning, but not evil. He’s interesting and complex. I write all this and while I’m not as deep in Dimitri lore, I can’t help but be disappointed comparing him to other other two. It’s interesting how much he represents the old guard and the importance of crests and reliance on strength over other things. I just personally find it hard to like him over Edelgard or Claude.
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Jul 23, 2022 00:42
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CASPAR KNOW YOUR LIMITS.
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Jul 23, 2022 01:00
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Claude's actions in Hopes are a little morally ambiguous but he's still fundamentally a good person on his route. One of the major turning plot points of GW is when Claude seriously takes the first step down the villain road by using Randolph's army, at that point allied with Leicester, as human shields/bait to ensure that his forces are able to wipe out Catherine and the Knights of Seiros with few to no Leicester casualties. Everyone is horrified by this and takes Claude to task about it, and his response is "you know what, you're right, that was an rear end in a top hat move, I'm going to start involving everyone else in my plans and opening up more because I might be getting a little too ends-justify-the-means in my desire to reach my goals." Another major turning point in GW is a while after the Randolph betrayal, where Claude has Dimitri 100% absolutely dead to rights and has already cracked open Fhirdiad, but then receives a message that the slithers are stirring up serious trouble back in House Ordelia's territory. Instead of taking the opportunity to basically win the whole ball game, Claude drops everything, picks up sticks, and rushes home to protect Leicester because it's his job. Several characters comment about how even they're surprised that Claude would back out on the verge of ultimate victory simply to help a less powerful house like Ordelia. The "mini-Claudes" line isn't a damning declaration of how Claude has corrupted his friends into being dead-eyed schemers, it's a result of him letting all of his friends and allies in on the planning process and encouraging them to participate, which is basically the most ironclad way to ensure that Leicester isn't doing bastard rear end in a top hat things because all of the Deer are fundamentally good people. Basically GW is "Claude is now actually a grand planner and schemer, but his ties with his friends and allies anchor him and stop him from viewing people like chess pieces to be sacrificed when necessary".
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Jul 23, 2022 01:02
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Natural 20 posted:CASPAR In response to what?
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Jul 23, 2022 01:03
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Kanos posted:The "mini-Claudes" line isn't a damning declaration of how Claude has corrupted his friends into being dead-eyed schemers, it's a result of him letting all of his friends and allies in on the planning process and encouraging them to participate, which is basically the most ironclad way to ensure that Leicester isn't doing bastard rear end in a top hat things because all of the Deer are fundamentally good people. I realize, and I fully admit that it's a "bring your own biases" thing that's probably coloring my reading of it especially in 2022-- I'm just put off nowadays more than ever by the "talking to people is difficult and slow, we have an emergency and it takes too long to have a consensus, we need One Strong Person to Take Charge and Do What Needs To Be Done" kind of stuff, and even if you take the initial King Claude stuff as a first step down a road that he steps back from post-Randolph, it's not like he actually steps back on it-- the Alliance is still dissolved and isn't coming back any time soon. You can also handwave that as (GW Ending)"well the war's not even half over by the end of the game" but again, Claude doesn't seem to even have the slightest interest in running it back, just throwing another noble into the position if/when he feels like loving off it just rubbed me the wrong way right off the bat and stuck through to the end
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Jul 23, 2022 01:36
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I think it is uncool that Claude's plan for change involves dismantling demoncracy and instituting a monarchy with himself as ruler and I also think it is uncool that Edie's plan for change in the continent involves having an empire conquer and subsume neighboring nations. However, I think that ultimately it is good that both routes have these uncool elements because if one of them didn't and it was just the cool guys doing the right thing and creating the change we want to see in the world it would feel hella lame by comparison. So in the end I think Claude's dismantling of the Alliance is a positive for the story.
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Jul 23, 2022 01:52
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I realize, and I fully admit that it's a "bring your own biases" thing that's probably coloring my reading of it especially in 2022-- I'm just put off nowadays more than ever by the "talking to people is difficult and slow, we have an emergency and it takes too long to have a consensus, we need One Strong Person to Take Charge and Do What Needs To Be Done" kind of stuff, and even if you take the initial King Claude stuff as a first step down a road that he steps back from post-Randolph, it's not like he actually steps back on it-- the Alliance is still dissolved and isn't coming back any time soon. You can also handwave that as (GW Ending)"well the war's not even half over by the end of the game" but again, Claude doesn't seem to even have the slightest interest in running it back, just throwing another noble into the position if/when he feels like loving off The point of the spoiled thing you quoted is that Claude is effectively running roundtables again - the members of the noble houses who used to make up the council are all represented in the Deer, and he's also including commoners in this stuff as well. I'm not really convinced that trading out the Alliance governmental model for the Federation is a loss - at absolute worst it's a lateral move in terms of freedom and prosperity for the people under it. The Alliance government was not an egalitarian democracy, it was an entrenched oligarchy composed of a couple of specific rich and powerful noble families who can and did actively exclude the voices and participation of "lesser" houses in order to protect and safeguard their own influence and power. It's a great system if you're Gloucester or Ordelia or Riegan but not so much if you're a minor border noble or a peasant, and in fact having multiple houses of roughly equivalent power and influence means that it's much harder to hold any of those houses to account when one or more of them is doing poo poo things - Raphael's whole backstory is about his parents dying because of the negligence of Count Gloucester during the Gloucester-Riegan feud. At the end of the game the Alliance is still the Federation, but the Federation's king is an elected position and non-hereditary so it's still not Fearghus or the Empire. Claude and Lorenz even have a support where they accidentally invent actual popular democracy by talking about how the next king should be chosen by a general vote of the people rather than a noble council(which Lorenz is immediately reflexively opposed to, until he remembers that the people who live in Gloucester love his family, so he suddenly thinks it's a good idea). Kanos fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jul 23, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 01:56
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VW has Claude install Byleth as his very own god-King of Fodlan only to go back and become King of Almyra. Claude's original plan was to become supreme leader of Fodlan, and that wasn't going to happen via round table discussions. He's a powerhungry prince who believes that he would make a good king, whether of Almyra or Fodlan or both. He was never a supporter of the Alliance's political structure that limits him, he just had to work within it, and he's fairly often shown to just make decisions without caring for what the actual political direction of the alliance is- see his political games that stop the Alliance just siding with the Empire in CF, or his basically-unilateral disbanding of the Alliance to hand it over to the Kingdom in AM.
Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Jul 23, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 02:07
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