|
Kosmo Gallion posted:What's the general opinion on Under The Dome? I read it when it first came out and enjoyed it. Then I read it again in 2012 or so and didn't enjoy it as much. The villains are cartoonishly evil with no greater scope. IIRC they even wear badges later in the book identifying them as bad guys. Plus that ending was pretty poor and comes out of nowhere despite the 400+ pages of build. I never really got into it because at one point I read ahead and found that main former military guy (whose name I can't recall) had been recommended to be the one in charge by Jack Reacher. Of the Lee Child novels. Not by "somebody who's like the real life Jack Reacher." By fictional character Jack Reacher. And whatever I was suspending my disbelief from pretty much got chain-sawed into rubble at that point. I know it's kind of dumb and that King probably just tossed that in there because he was a Lee Child fan, but after that I just lost all interest in finishing the book.
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 00:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 20:44 |
|
|
On the other hand, King oddly recycles names from other books just for shits and giggles sometimes, and as far as I can tell it really doesn't mean much at all. Like for instance, I was reading Doctor Sleep a while back for the first time, and as I recall the pediatrician character mentions that he has a patient named "Fredrica Bimmel" at one point, which happens to be the same name as one Buffalo Bill/Jame Gumb's victims in The Silence of the Lambs novel/film. Charlie Manx and Christmasland from NOS4A2 also get a shout-out in Doctor Sleep I think. I think he just does it for fun, for kicks. I don't mind it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 01:24
|
|
|
kaworu posted:On the other hand, King oddly recycles names from other books just for shits and giggles sometimes, and as far as I can tell it really doesn't mean much at all. Like for instance, I was reading Doctor Sleep a while back for the first time, and as I recall the pediatrician character mentions that he has a patient named "Fredrica Bimmel" at one point, which happens to be the same name as one Buffalo Bill/Jame Gumb's victims in The Silence of the Lambs novel/film. Charlie Manx and Christmasland from NOS4A2 also get a shout-out in Doctor Sleep I think. I think he just does it for fun, for kicks. I don't mind it. Oh, I get that. It's likely that on some other occasion, I'd have read that bit and just gone, "Huh. Cute, King. Cute." and moved on. Like you're driving down a freeway, run over a sharp thing and 99 times out of 100 you never notice or at worst you eventually need to get your tire fixed. But on that 100th time it causes a catastrophic blowout that sends your rear end into a 20-car pileup. Something about it just hit me the wrong way and totally crashed my interest in that book.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 01:40
|
|
|
Everyone posted:I never really got into it because at one point I read ahead and found that main former military guy (whose name I can't recall) had been recommended to be the one in charge by Jack Reacher. Of the Lee Child novels. Not by "somebody who's like the real life Jack Reacher." By fictional character Jack Reacher. And whatever I was suspending my disbelief from pretty much got chain-sawed into rubble at that point. I know it's kind of dumb and that King probably just tossed that in there because he was a Lee Child fan, but after that I just lost all interest in finishing the book. for sure. if reacher was in chesters mill when the dome came down big jim wouldve been completely hosed. in fact i would really like to read that version of the book
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 01:45
|
|
|
Kosmo Gallion posted:What's the general opinion on Under The Dome? I read it when it first came out and enjoyed it. Then I read it again in 2012 or so and didn't enjoy it as much. The villains are cartoonishly evil with no greater scope. IIRC they even wear badges later in the book identifying them as bad guys. Plus that ending was pretty poor and comes out of nowhere despite the 400+ pages of build. I just went through it for the first time a few months back and thought it was excellent. Certainly one of the best King novels I've ever read.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 01:50
|
|
|
scary ghost dog posted:for sure. if reacher was in chesters mill when the dome came down big jim wouldve been completely hosed. in fact i would really like to read that version of the book I suspect that version of the book would have been considerably shorter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 01:54
|
|
|
Everyone posted:I never really got into it because at one point I read ahead and found that main former military guy (whose name I can't recall) had been recommended to be the one in charge by Jack Reacher. Of the Lee Child novels. Not by "somebody who's like the real life Jack Reacher." By fictional character Jack Reacher. And whatever I was suspending my disbelief from pretty much got chain-sawed into rubble at that point. I know it's kind of dumb and that King probably just tossed that in there because he was a Lee Child fan, but after that I just lost all interest in finishing the book. I bought the audiobook and loved it. When it came out. Trying to listen to it after loving Trump and everything they do, I couldn't get through it anymore. It just made me sad and angry. I've never wanted to kill a villain in a book more. I actually didn't even notice the part you spoiled.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 14:26
|
|
|
Ariza posted:I bought the audiobook and loved it. When it came out. Trying to listen to it after loving Trump and everything they do, I couldn't get through it anymore. It just made me sad and angry. I've never wanted to kill a villain in a book more. I think I'd been on a bit of a Lee Child binge. Otherwise it's possible that I wouldn't have noticed it either. I know people said the book was kind of a shot at Bush/Cheney and it likely was. One interesting bit I learned a bit back. In 2005 George W. Bush read John M Barry's "The Great Influenza" about the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic. That book inspired him to push hard to get protocols in place to prepare for a modern pandemic even while the large majority of security people were more focused on terrorism. While Obama didn't really build on it, he left it in place and it proved its worth during the Swine Flu epidemic and the Ebola scare. The parts that Trump hadn't already dismantled prior to COVID, he pretty much ignored, so... thanks again, Donnie.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 18:03
|
|
|
Finally finished The Institute after leaving it for about half a year. Turned out to be a lot better after the stale part of describing daily life at the institute itself. Big Stranger Things vibes, not sure what came first but I wouldn’t be surprised if one influenced the other. Dove straight into The Stand and devouring it. Loved the introduction of Randall Flagg. Can’t wait how this will turn out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2022 22:33
|
|
|
About to start 11/22/63 after realizing it was a birthday gift from ten years ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 05:01
|
|
|
oldpainless posted:About to start 11/22/63 after realizing it was a birthday gift from ten years ago. It's quite good. Kind of slows down a bit in the middle but picks back up again
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 14:38
|
|
|
That slow middle is at least good at creating a powerful sense of dread.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 18:51
|
|
|
The slower middle works because King is really good at writing in that particular timeframe of 50s/60s America.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 19:52
|
|
|
Mostly read King's short stories outside of that recent lovecraftian novel of his and Misery, but drat reading The Stand and so far it really makes it seem like he's got a real grudge against women or something
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 03:26
|
|
|
Also reading this 1990 edition with stuff added in makes everything feel so discombobulated in time. Sometimes it feels like the 60s, 70s, 80s...
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 03:32
|
|
|
Listening to the audiobook for Insomnia for the first time. It’s actually kind of great, in a really creepy bizarre and off-kilter way. For one thing, the audiobook is narrated by old-school film actor Eli Wallach (probably best known for playing Tuco in “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly”) and he does a pretty good job, especially since an elderly-sounding guy is appropriate for the narration of this particular book. But then there’s also these weird musical interludes every 10-20 minutes throughout the audiobook, which I thought I might find irritating to the point of distraction but I actually kinda like so far, as they accentuate the surreal creepiness of certain scenes, for me. What’s really most interesting about listening to it is of course the topicality of abortion and women’s health - even seemingly elevated to the level of an interdimensional struggle for good and evil here. I’m only a third of the way through the book though, so I’m not completely sure where King is going with this yet. It’s interesting nevertheless, and feels oddly prescient so far. kaworu fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jul 31, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 14:04
|
|
|
I can remember very little about Insomnia - just a few bits that might be spoilers. I certainly can't remember anything like a fraction of its overall length - on a shelf dominated by thick SK hardbacks, Insomnia is a biggie. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 14:43
|
|
|
I'm actually more floored that shitweasels is that long. My brain must be protecting me, because I can't remember that much going on in the story that it needed to be so gigantic...
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 15:03
|
|
|
Halfway through The Stand right now and it feels like I’m just getting started. Absolutely love the character building and the way the book is structured and switches viewpoints. Not a big fan of the chapters becoming longer and longer though. I like to read from chapter to chapter and with them being 50+ pages it’s impossible not to have to lay it down somewhere half way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 16:13
|
|
|
Im on chapter 34 of the stand so far. Enjoying it other than the sometimes King gets weird about women and the oftentimes he gets weird about race (he's just so loving weird with black people esp). I love love all the grounded set up and build up, just how the plague spreads, how explicit the U.S. government/military is straight up loving evil, to the point where i loved all of it up to now that im actually dreading what comes after when it gets more "supernatural". I dont actually find Flagg compelling so far, he's cartoonish and silly and given how unmoored from time the book feels (it's like the 70s with 90s references shoved in), the guy feels more like a corny goofball than some insidious presence of pure evil. If anything id have preferred him not being a pov character if he was gonna just be stephen king presents the joker baaaybeee. I cant help but feel id have preferred him exclusively as a shadow lurking on the margins of other pov characters. Like i said im only like 25% thru this poo poo maybe. Enjoying most of it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 17:04
|
|
|
i will say, it feels like something written when the dude was 21 and not 31. even though I'm reading the 1990 update!!! all the moralizing, all the shaming, all the immature both-sidesing of black nationalists/leftist radicals. the weird chapter with the gay guy. it feels he still has like, a 17 year old's understanding of human beings and ideology. He feels like such a loving square, like somebody who hasn't really experienced the America he's trying to describe. The stuff that really works for me is the techno thriller Andromeda Strain poo poo. His portrayal of human beings can be hit and miss as gently caress. I hate to say it, but he makes Harold Lauder feel like a self-insert lol. I'm assuming that's part of the intent anyway, but King doesn't know the half of it. Again, I'm zipping through this book warts and all, really enjoying it. Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jul 31, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 17:12
|
|
|
I can’t really say too much without spoiling cause I’m not sure where you’re at narratively but Harold feels like a timeless stereotype of a specific kind of social outcast who’s very recognizable if you’ve ever seen or been close to being that person. Also King eventually writes a very overt self-inset character that is far, far less capable than Harold. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 17:57
|
|
|
If growing up in New England is as insular and old-timey as he writes it then its no wonder that 30 years ago he wrote with less social grace than was normal
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 18:35
|
|
|
Punkin Spunkin posted:Im on chapter 34 of the stand so far. Enjoying it other than the sometimes King gets weird about women and the oftentimes he gets weird about race (he's just so loving weird with black people esp). Punkin Spunkin posted:i will say, it feels like something written when the dude was 21 and not 31. even though I'm reading the 1990 update!!! all the moralizing, all the shaming, all the immature both-sidesing of black nationalists/leftist radicals. the weird chapter with the gay guy. it feels he still has like, a 17 year old's understanding of human beings and ideology. He feels like such a loving square, like somebody who hasn't really experienced the America he's trying to describe. The stuff that really works for me is the techno thriller Andromeda Strain poo poo. His portrayal of human beings can be hit and miss as gently caress. King and his books are 100% products of their times, which is, ironically, one of the things that gives them so much resonance. The Stand reads like a book from a 31 year old white man born in lower-class 1947 New England America because that's the life King knew. He was incredibly progressive for that time but had (and still has) equally incredible blind spots outside of blue-collar white men with substance abuse problems. Sometimes he does okay -- I think that Susan in Wizard and Glass is one of the better-written women in fantasy, especially compared to e.g. Robert Jordan's braid-tugging, skirt-pressing women -- but sometimes (especially in his cocaine days) he's loving bonkers, like with Detta Walker in The Drawing of the Three. There is no goddamn way that book would get past an editor to a publisher now with such a comic amount of stereotypes in it. But even then, some of Detta's chapters show King's skill at the craft; there's a run-on sentence that's like 3 pages long explaining Detta and what the Blue Plate means to her and her life, and it's a nuanced take that very few writers could pull off, even if it's wrong. I'd say the same thing about the Adrian Mellon chapter in It, which has some gay stereotypes but is also impossibly progressive for a book that came out in the 80's. My constant feeling with King is that his heart is in the right place even if he gets it wrong a lot of the time, which is more than I can say for, like, JK Rowling. Last Celebration posted:I can’t really say too much without spoiling cause I’m not sure where you’re at narratively but Harold feels like a timeless stereotype of a specific kind of social outcast who’s very recognizable if you’ve ever seen or been close to being that person. I'm happy to poo poo all over that new miniseries of The Stand, but one thing they absolutely got right was Harold. That kind of person has been around forever (Lovecraft was certainly one of them), but they generally weren't in the national consciousness until Columbine and the later spread of incel internet culture. The showrunners tried and failed in a lot of ways to bring a forty-year-old story from the 70's into the 2020s, but they nailed the kind of person Harold is. Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jul 31, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 18:35
|
|
|
oh yeah I get that he's a product of his times/environment and better than a lot of the white men in his era even if that aint really saying poo poo. it's just a major bummer, especially considering I'm reading the 1990 update. He decided to be like "Hmm, I'll throw in like, AIDS and mentioning the year '1997' but the rest of this is pretty chill".
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 18:54
|
|
|
titties posted:If growing up in New England is as insular and old-timey as he writes it then its no wonder that 30 years ago he wrote with less social grace than was normal
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 20:55
|
|
|
Last Celebration posted:I can’t really say too much without spoiling cause I’m not sure where you’re at narratively but Harold feels like a timeless stereotype of a specific kind of social outcast who’s very recognizable if you’ve ever seen or been close to being that person. enough so that he was the only part of the 2020 miniseries that wasn't a flaming sack of runny dogshit
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2022 21:33
|
|
|
Teach posted:I can remember very little about Insomnia - just a few bits that might be spoilers. I certainly can't remember anything like a fraction of its overall length - on a shelf dominated by thick SK hardbacks, Insomnia is a biggie. Insomnia is interesting… it’s very much connected to the latter part of the Dark Tower, with the Crimson King being prominently mentioned as an antagonist. Then there’s the connections to IT given that the novel is set in Derry in 1993 - Mike Hanlon has a cameo appearance for instance. Mostly I like that it’s mellow and extremely surreal and creepy. It seems a bit more in keeping with the Stephen King who wrote Hearts in Atlantis - subtle Dark Tower references and all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 05:21
|
|
|
I also enjoyed Insomnia. I think of it often now that I'm older and tend to wake up around 4am.
Canuckistan fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Aug 1, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 15:59
|
|
|
I should give it another go - I'm sure it's been 20 years since I read it. When I moved abroad to teach in 2000, the school library had one (1) King, and it was Hearts in Atlantis. I can't remember that there's anything awful in it, but it felt like an odd choice for a school library in a Muslim country!
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 16:03
|
|
|
Seriously tho way too many of the black characters in The Stand are like I LIKE JIVE, HEROIN, AND RACE WAR It's embarrassing, this is the 1990 edition. Like if ur gonna edit in the tmnt maybe clean up some of that poo poo too
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:12
|
|
|
kaworu posted:Listening to the audiobook for Insomnia for the first time. It’s actually kind of great, in a really creepy bizarre and off-kilter way. I read Insomnia when I was 16 or 17, which is to say old enough to know what abortion was and that a lot of people were pissed about it on one side or the other but not quite experienced enough to grasp the implications of what abortion represented with regards to bodily autonomy or gender equality or any of that. That Insomnia included such a significant focus on it, and domestic violence as well, always stuck with me. The story itself is very good, and felt like somewhat of a departure for King (at the time) in terms of the stakes, having older people as protagonists, etc. Probably need to revisit that one soon and see how ~20 years of intervening life experience changes the reading. Punkin Spunkin posted:Seriously tho way too many of the black characters in The Stand are like I LIKE JIVE, HEROIN, AND RACE WAR Not to defend King at all on his portrayals of minorities, but that is what the major discourse around Black people, crime, drugs, etc sounded like in the late 80s and early 90s - still sounds like that sometimes. The New Republic published Charles "Bell Curve" Murray in 94, so it isn't like King was saying anything that wasn't reflective of the mainstream news cycle, commentary, etc even on the liberal side of the aisle. Doesn't excuse it either though. He can obviously humanize characters who are involved in crime or abuse drugs (Larry, Eddie, any of the various alcoholic writer protags) when he wants to.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 21:27
|
|
|
Punkin Spunkin posted:Seriously tho way too many of the black characters in The Stand are like I LIKE JIVE, HEROIN, AND RACE WAR Were you old enough to be aware of what was going on around you in 1990? I agree with you completely in tyool 2022, but people and popular culture were way loving worse 32 years ago in that regard. If the update was in 2014 or something, I'd agree with you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 21:45
|
|
|
yeah, that's fair, I definitely wasn't old enough. It is important to realize though, that there were better white men in 1990 and he wasn't one of them, but there were plenty worse and his stuff is typical of the era (and like yall said, sometimes even the present), but still...grating as gently caress. Like, there's so much consideration in making the other characters fully-formed human beings and then you get to the black people and a lot of the women and it's like yiiiiikes. Like dude, why not just imagine what you'd write a "normal" white guy as, and just make him black? It wouldn't be truly doing the character justice, but lord knows it would be a billion times better than what we got, it's loaded with racist baggage. Don't get me started on his views on the 1960s student movement lmao. definitely still racing thru The Stand and enjoying it though. On Part Two now. Did he get better with that poo poo though? Like in his 2000s books? All the "moralizing" (I put it in quotes cuz it's all crooked, evil, and misguided dipshit white dude morals being pushed, ironically, for a book with DARK EVIL BAD SATAN MAN Randall Flagg) in The Stand is a bummer. I'm not that far, but it feels like it's cornily setting it up so that any character that is kinda flawed or selfish or did drugs or has some kinda mental illness will join the EVIL SIIIIDE and then there's the strong-spirited good people. Guess I was just surprised cuz I enjoyed Misery and his short stories and never really encountered this kinda bullshit (still haven't read "Dedication" oof) p.s. good adaptations of The Stand? What's the go to? the 1994 miniseries? Is the 2020 one any good? Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Aug 1, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 22:06
|
|
|
the 2020 adaptation sucks a lot
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 22:20
|
|
|
The '94 movie is cheesy and low budget and made-for-broadcast-TV, but it's actually pretty good all things considered. I'm fond of it because I spent literal months reading the book as a 12 year old and had no idea there was a movie until I stumbled upon a VHS copy during an out of town field trip. I immediately spent all of my lunch money on it. Also the whole thing's up on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUb-wx5PO3A Edit: It also features a million "hey it's that guy!" actors. Campion is played by the preacher from Deadwood. Joe Bob Briggs plays Hapscomb's cousin, the cop. Edit 2: Decided to look up 2020's version of Baby Can You Dig Your Man? They didn't even include "he's a righteous man!" Lester Shy fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Aug 1, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 22:33
|
|
|
Dr. Faustus posted:This is essential context. I prefer to give King the credit and courage for being willing to try. I mean compare King to Jim Butcher's Dresden Files. They're mostly set in Chicago and yet the only black person that gets speaking parts and appears even occasionally is from Russia. Like, really Jim? Chicago? And you can't imagine any black characters being from, I dunno, even the southern portion of Chicago? Not a single, solitary one?
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 23:11
|
|
|
As someone who was born and raised in southern Maine and lived there for like 90% of my life, and raised by parents almost the same age as Stephen King, his particular worldview and perspective on issues like race, gender, politics, etc are all extremely familiar and oddly comforting to me. I forget what book it was, but Stephen King also had the perfect hypothetical quote to sum up the particular flavor of racism that one tends to encounter in Maine - “Oh dear, did you see the paper this morning? I can’t imagine why anyone would want to kill that Dr. King, he was such a nice n****r!” A sort of naively misguided racism that’s not so much mean-spirited as it is misunderstood, but nevertheless absolutely present. Definitely a strong contrast to the type of vitriolic, malignant racism one might encounter in the American south, but racism nonetheless. Also I feel like it’s worth noting that statistically, Maine is (at least I think it still is following the 2020 census, it has been for quite some time) the whitest and least diverse state in the entire country, per capita. This is especially true in western/central Maine where King’s from. It’s pretty crazy actually, for instance at my (private) high school out of a student body of about 460 students, all but two students were white, and nobody was black. The public high schools were a little more diverse, but not by much.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 23:46
|
|
|
Punkin Spunkin posted:p.s. good adaptations of The Stand? What's the go to? the 1994 miniseries? Is the 2020 one any good? The 1994 one is far far better. Despite budget/s&p limitations and the boneheaded decision to make Flagg turn into the actual devil a couple of times, it holds up better than 2020's "Vegas is people loving on tables and chainsaw duels, also here's Ezra Miller as a keening, gibbering riff on Simple Jack" take.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 23:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 20:44 |
|
|
Blew my mind years later to learn that Tom Cullen in the '94 adaptation was played by the voice of Patrick Star.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2022 00:06
|
|
