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Grevling posted:Also I don't know if it's a coincidence or something subconscious going on but I saw that tweet and then later picked up a book about drug use in Nazi Germany. Was it Blitzed: The Third Riech on Drugs? It’s a fun read, way more colorful than a typical history book. No idea how accurate it is though.
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Jul 21, 2022 06:47
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| # ? May 20, 2024 12:55 |
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reading Civil War history and digging up some tidbits: 1. John Singleton Mosby was already captured by Union troops shortly before the Second Battle of Bull Run... and then they let him go 2. George Pickett had an 18-year age gap with his wife, that he married just after Gettysburg
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Jul 21, 2022 07:42
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Pickett's charge.
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Jul 21, 2022 08:22
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Broadlybrowsing posted:Was it Blitzed: The Third Riech on Drugs? It’s a fun read, way more colorful than a typical history book. No idea how accurate it is though. Yeah, that's the one. Looks like some historians dislike it, maybe there's reason to be wary of trusting it completely. The part where both civilians and soldiers were using drugs on a pretty large scale rings true though.
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Jul 21, 2022 10:19
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Grevling posted:Yeah, that's the one. Looks like some historians dislike it, maybe there's reason to be wary of trusting it completely. The part where both civilians and soldiers were using drugs on a pretty large scale rings true though. The degree to which meth (or things that are close enough to meth as to effectively be meth) we're both available and widely used explains not only a lot of behavior during WW2 but also a lot of regular postwar family life. There was a whole class of uppers marketed directly to housewives for example, and it barely warrants a passing mention if acknowledged at all when talking about how people acted.
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Jul 21, 2022 14:20
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once you cross out of therapeutic range and into rec doses, that poo poo turns people into pretty powerful psychopaths; an entire civ and military populace methed out, with good reasons to fear going outside, going insane and paranoid in their own domiciles, while soldiers get cracked out and have any latent sadism reinforced with dopamine+ sounds like the kind of thing that could enable that entire conflict yeah
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Jul 21, 2022 14:35
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Richard Evans points out that Ohler distorts evidence and overestimates how prevalent use of amphetamines was, and in doing so minimizes the Nazis' culpability for their own crimes by insinuating that they were made worse by drug use, abuse, and withdrawal instead of being conscious choices. Some of this is also basic statistics that are easy to overstate when you don't provide the larger context for the figures. For example:quote:Ohler, who has diligently researched in the German federal archives and other relevant collections, presents a picture of an entire nation high on drugs. The use of methamphetamine was common, he argues, particularly in the form of “Pervitin”. The drug, he says, was manufactured in huge quantities: 35m tablets were, for example, ordered for the western campaign in 1940. This seems an impressive figure, until you recall that more than two and a quarter million troops were involved, making an average of around 15 tablets per soldier for the entire operation. Given the concentration on supplying tank crews with the drug, this means that the vast majority of troops didn’t take any at all. For a comparable historical phenomenon, however, it is really interesting to think about how we've internalized patterns of daily life that relied heavily on drugs, especially stimulants, to become norms in the first place. Doctors work incredibly long shifts because one very influential doctor was constantly high on cocaine so he could work 16 hours straight. The capitalist workday was originally only functional because workers were constantly chugging coffee and tea to maintain a caffeine high that allowed them to be productive for more than the 4-5 hours a day that a person can actually do solid work without stimulants, and then the workers would go get wasted after work likely in part so that the depressive effects of alcohol would help undo the lingering effects of the stimulants and the stimulant-enabled heavy workload. And so on. A lot of our daily rhythms today are built on historically-contingent norms that were constructed by widespread use and abuse of mood-altering chemicals. And then today we do things like try to cut caffeine out of our lives or forbid doctors from taking cocaine, but then still expect to work the same productive hours established as norms by people who were constantly artificially stimulated.
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Jul 21, 2022 14:48
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thank god WallStreet still has unfettered access to recreational drugs
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Jul 21, 2022 18:43
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Germans under the Third Reich may or may not have been hopped up on speed all the time, but Americans in the 50's definitely were
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Jul 21, 2022 18:48
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Copy paste from boomerbook "Meet Bullard a fearsome soldier — and the first Black American fighter pilot. As a Black man born in Georgia in 1895, Eugene Bullard had long felt the weight of American racism. But by the time he was a teenager, he escaped by fleeing to France and relished in the new freedoms he could enjoy. So when WWI broke out, he eagerly signed up to fight for the French Foreign Legion. Bullard became a fearsome soldier — and the first Black American fighter pilot. But when his fellow Americans joined the war, they refused to allow him into their ranks in the U.S. Army. Undeterred, Bullard continued fighting for his adopted country and even emblazoned his plane with the words, "Tout sang que coule est rouge," or "All blood runs red." While Bullard became a war hero in France, his accomplishments were completely ignored in America — until he told his story on TV."
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Jul 21, 2022 19:37
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Germans under the Third Reich may or may not have been hopped up on speed all the time, but Americans in the 50's definitely were Supposedly it was also very common for postwar Japanese workers to be high on meth constantly to increase productivity.
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Jul 21, 2022 19:40
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A whole country on meth really easily explains McCarthyism very succinctly.
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Jul 21, 2022 21:25
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Meth and leaded gasoline. It's kinda like how if civilization still exists in a couple hundred years and people read a history book about the collapse of the US empire in our time, there's a good chance the mainstream books don't mention that a good chunk of the US political and economic elite are ancient ghouls riddled with Alzheimers. Just some important background info you need to understand how the gently caress things went the way they did.
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Jul 21, 2022 21:52
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Leaded gasoline gets a lot of attention but it really is shocking just how many hosed up things were in the air and ground water back then. Like, it's not exactly good here nowadays but back then it was the loving wild west of dumping chemicals into the storm sewer and hoping no one noticed.
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Jul 21, 2022 23:38
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the disposal method for batteries in the 50s was chuck them into your fireplace and enjoy the pretty colors and cancer
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Jul 21, 2022 23:41
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Azathoth posted:Leaded gasoline gets a lot of attention but it really is shocking just how many hosed up things were in the air and ground water back then. Like, it's not exactly good here nowadays but back then it was the loving wild west of dumping chemicals into the storm sewer and hoping no one noticed. this was every beach in the US back in like the 50s 
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Jul 22, 2022 00:04
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Azathoth posted:Leaded gasoline gets a lot of attention but it really is shocking just how many hosed up things were in the air and ground water back then. Like, it's not exactly good here nowadays but back then it was the loving wild west of dumping chemicals into the storm sewer and hoping no one noticed. 
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Jul 22, 2022 03:35
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Disposing of household garbage can be a problem. Solution: shove it under your bed with a broom until it's safely out of view.
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Jul 22, 2022 04:24
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vyelkin posted:Richard Evans points out that Ohler distorts evidence and overestimates how prevalent use of amphetamines was, and in doing so minimizes the Nazis' culpability for their own crimes by insinuating that they were made worse by drug use, abuse, and withdrawal instead of being conscious choices. Some of this is also basic statistics that are easy to overstate when you don't provide the larger context for the figures. For example: IMO being hopped up on meth is NOT a valid excuse for war or genocide.
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Jul 22, 2022 05:14
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I like those old houses that had bathrooms built with a big labeled slot for used razorblades, but the slot just lead into a hole in the wall.
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Jul 22, 2022 05:14
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Slavvy posted:Disposing of household garbage can be a problem. This is the bedrock of decades of western economic "growth". For some reason the planet is becoming less hospitable to human life now.
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Jul 22, 2022 09:31
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Weka posted:IMO being hopped up on meth is NOT a valid excuse for war or genocide. agreed, but it's worth noting that meth makes you loving insane and reinforces just about every bad impulse you could have so like, prolific dopamine-based stimulant abuse absolutely correlates to bad behavior but it being possibly overblown isn't shocking either.
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Jul 22, 2022 09:46
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Meth makes some people like that but I know plenty of habitual meth users who are the diametric opposite of that. Hitler's drug use however.. wikipedia posted:Brom-Nervacit: bromide, Sodium diethylbarbiturate, Pyramidon, since August 1941 a spoonful of this tranquilizer almost every night, to counteract stimulation from methamphetamine and to allow sleep.[7] I'm the belladonna.
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Jul 22, 2022 10:41
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Hitler had Michael Jackson's doctor holy poo poo
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Jul 22, 2022 11:26
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Riot Bimbo posted:agreed, but it's worth noting that meth makes you loving insane and reinforces just about every bad impulse you could have so like, prolific dopamine-based stimulant abuse absolutely correlates to bad behavior I don't know if it was this thread or the MilHist thread but the "Nazis on Meth" book is pretty bad history, most people in the German army would have gotten 20 meth pills or nothing, and there is literally no evidence that lots of regular people were going out and buying meth off the shelves. If anyone in WWII were meth fiends it was the Finns; quote:Koivunen was a Finnish soldier, assigned to a ski patrol on 20 April 1944, along with several other Finnish soldiers. Three days into their mission, on 18 March, the group was attacked and surrounded by Soviet forces, from which they managed to escape.[2] Koivunen became fatigued after skiing for a long distance, but could not stop. He was also the sole carrier of army-issued Pervitin, or methamphetamine, a stimulant used to remain awake while on duty.[3] He took them all and had a short burst of energy, but then entered into a state of delirium, and lost consciousness. Koivunen remembered waking up the following morning, separated from his patrol and having no supplies.[4] In the following days, he escaped Soviet forces once again, was injured by a land mine which also set fire to a nearby Russian camp, and laid in a ditch for a week waiting for help.[4] Having skied more than 400 km (248.5 mi) he was found and admitted to a nearby hospital, where his heart rate was measured at 200 beats per minute, triple the average human heartbeat,[5] and weighing only 43 kg (94.8 lbs).[4] In the week Koivunen was gone, he subsisted only on pine buds and a single Siberian jay that he caught and ate raw. He ended up surviving and died peacefully at the age of 71.[4]
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Jul 22, 2022 11:30
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Nixon (muttering): Jesus Christ.
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Jul 22, 2022 11:45
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Azathoth posted:Leaded gasoline gets a lot of attention but it really is shocking just how many hosed up things were in the air and ground water back then. Like, it's not exactly good here nowadays but back then it was the loving wild west of dumping chemicals into the storm sewer and hoping no one noticed. GE used to be in a city in the northwest of Massachusetts called Pittsfield and when they up and left sometime in the 90s they found so much environmental devastation that it is only now even beginning to be addressed, and only on the actual GE site and not any of the downstream pollution of the superfund site they created. That poo poo has a long, long legacy that still harms people to this day, not to mention the economic devastation left in the wake of a giant facility like that leaving town.
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Jul 22, 2022 14:13
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MikeCrotch posted:I don't know if it was this thread or the MilHist thread but the "Nazis on Meth" book is pretty bad history, most people in the German army would have gotten 20 meth pills or nothing, and there is literally no evidence that lots of regular people were going out and buying meth off the shelves. Now in YouTube animation format: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfoMvgDY8hk
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Jul 22, 2022 14:34
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https://mobile.twitter.com/garius/status/1550397462355009536
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Jul 22, 2022 17:17
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we love it when america can be both the hero and the villain, don't we folks? we love it
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Jul 22, 2022 17:44
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Weka posted:Mutaflor: Emulsion of Escherichia coli-strains – enteric coated tablets for improvement of intestinal flora. They were prescribed to Hitler for flatulence in 1936, the first unorthodox drug treatment from Morell; bacteria cultured from human feces, see: "E. coli")[20] brb gotta take my poo poo pills and semen injections
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Jul 22, 2022 18:03
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Weka posted:Meth makes some people like that but I know plenty of habitual meth users who are the diametric opposite of that. Now do JFK!
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Jul 22, 2022 21:27
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wow hitler had the giga shits
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Jul 22, 2022 21:42
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Slavvy posted:Disposing of household garbage can be a problem. razor blade slots are emblematic of this for me 
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Jul 22, 2022 22:05
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ya that was what started the conversation. alright, we give it plenty of poo poo but build a better solution to that problem. can't put literal razorblades in the general waste or really anywhere else without creating unnecessary hazard. rough to even handle the waste basket or whatever, and expecting people to go dispose of them when suds up is poor safety design. the blades are small enough and used infrequently enough that if put in an intelligent place those little slots can solve the problem for decades, hear stories of people opening them up and finding a big pile of rust on the floor but no damage or anything else.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:17
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The Russians used a knife
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Jul 22, 2022 22:45
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CoolCab posted:ya that was what started the conversation. alright, we give it plenty of poo poo but build a better solution to that problem. can't put literal razorblades in the general waste or really anywhere else without creating unnecessary hazard. rough to even handle the waste basket or whatever, and expecting people to go dispose of them when suds up is poor safety design. the blades are small enough and used infrequently enough that if put in an intelligent place those little slots can solve the problem for decades, hear stories of people opening them up and finding a big pile of rust on the floor but no damage or anything else. The disposable blades are the root of the problem.
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Jul 22, 2022 23:11
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https://twitter.com/witte_sergei/status/1550537572807352320 article on Operation Bagration
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Jul 23, 2022 08:24
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Slavvy posted:The disposable blades are the root of the problem. the slot is a great solution that OCD people aren't ready to have a conversation about imagine in places without indoor plumbing, you mean the poop just goes into the ground?? the funny thing is the razor blades don't magically go away in the trash, they just sit and rust somewhere else. but hey at least its an extra layer of abstraction!
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Jul 23, 2022 08:31
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So, what, you think that before gilette's magic invention there was no such thing as shaving...?
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Jul 23, 2022 08:52
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