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The Blazing Saddles Native American bit reminds me that future South Park creators’ movie Cannibal: the Musical had a tribe played by Japanese actors speaking Japanese. I wonder how poorly that movie aged.
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Jul 22, 2022 18:55
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Blood Nightmaster posted:That's like the worst part about it for me personally, like I haven't seen the movie in a while but I'm pretty sure you could literally cut out all of his scenes with no other edits and lose absolutely nothing plot-wise Look its really important that he lets her into her apartment when she loses her keys. Also this is the only thing wikipedia says he does during the movie lol
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Jul 22, 2022 18:55
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The weird thing is that the Bundys actually do support and love each other, and it doesn't feel forced. It's like Malcolm in the Middle where the family isn't perfect, the parents aren't wise, the kids act like real kids, and I distinctly remember a scene where they go to a huge family reunion on the dad's side, who all hate and despise the mom. To the point her MIL tricks her and locks her in a food pantry while the rest of the family poses for pictures. When her hell-raising troublemaking sons find out, and hear her crying, they don't say a single word, just all march out to the party. "What are you going to do?" "We don't know. We never know." And proceed to wreck the poo poo out of the party. There's no Moral Lesson, there's no Special Episode, it, like the Bundys, showed a non perfect family loving up, but they still cared about each other. Compared to poo poo like Seventh Heaven. Although it, like the Cosbys, makes you wonder how many other Perfect TV Families were really with a monster as the moral Good Guy. Quick thing about the incest: the first time I ever heard that word was with Flowers in the Attic. I wonder how many people had no idea wtf it was until that book became a loving insane bestseller. Oh, and one of the sequel prequels is worse: we have the grandparents, Malcolm and Olivia, in their early marriage. Malcolm only married her because she was not beautiful and was smart; that said he abuses the poo poo out of her emotionally, physically, and is furious when they have two sons, and the doctors say she can't give him a daughter. Then along comes family: Malcolm's dad has remarried a 20 year old and has a baby with her, Chris, and brings his new family to the ancestral home. Stepmom is raped by Malcolm--his dad walks in, sees this, and heart attacks to death. Leaving a pregnant stepmom, who gets locked in the attic until she gives birth, so Malcolm and Olivia can pass the baby off as theirs. Stepmom is kicked the gently caress out with her toddler Chris and told never to mention any of this, once she gives birth to a daughter, who the couple names Corrine. So yeah, it's not half uncle marrying half niece; they are literally half siblings about 2 years apart in age and raised apart. The entire incest thing gets a lot more GOT when you get to that part.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:01
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People say they couldn’t make Blazing Saddles today due to the actors being dead and also that it would be plagiarism, but they could easily just remake it like they did with The Producers in 2005. YOUR JOKES ARE FACTUALLY INCORRECT.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:26
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Dr Christmas posted:People say they couldn’t make Blazing Saddles today due to the actors being dead and also that it would be plagiarism, but they could easily just remake it like they did with The Producers in 2005. There's probably a few jokes they couldn't get away with, but what isn't that true of?
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Jul 22, 2022 21:27
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Married With Children can get problematic with Al's and Marcy's relationship. He always wins the insult battle and he humiliates her far more than she humiliates him. That said, everybody triumphed over Marcy. The show was pretty progressive overall in that it hated everybody equally. Nobody on the show had any redeeming factors except their loyalty to each other. Except for Buck. He didn't care for any of them. A couple of weeks ago, I sped through Full House Reviewed. I watched a handful of episodes growing up and was familiar enough with the characters. It wasn't surprising that the plots were bad. The show never tackled anything heavy enough to get very offensive but I'm still bit surprised at how awful it was.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:30
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I don’t think he’d want to make the same film today. He’d make it for today about today’s issues and probably be called a woke sellout
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Jul 22, 2022 21:33
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Dr Christmas posted:People say they couldn’t make Blazing Saddles today due to the actors being dead and also that it would be plagiarism, but they could easily just remake it like they did with The Producers in 2005.  that was a film adaptation of the stage musical adaptation, not a remake.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:33
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Dr Christmas posted:People say they couldn’t make Blazing Saddles today due to the actors being dead and also that it would be plagiarism, but they could easily just remake it like they did with The Producers in 2005. They actually did remake Blazing Saddles as an animal cartoon that just came out in theaters.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:36
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A major difference is that at that time in the 70s there was a certain vibe of "let's explicitly use these tropes and call out unspeakable things in order to subvert them", but I think it kinda eventually became the lazy "well we're just mocking everyone" approach, and to a certain extent people just got tired of it. Like it's not kneejerk sensitivity, it's "I've heard the N-word enough times that I don't need to hear it used for ironic purposes." (And yeah there's the issue of folks doing it "ironically" but not really, etc.) While there's stuff that was never acceptable there's also stuff where just, tastes change.
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Jul 22, 2022 21:44
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Maxwell Lord posted:A major difference is that at that time in the 70s there was a certain vibe of "let's explicitly use these tropes and call out unspeakable things in order to subvert them", but I think it kinda eventually became the lazy "well we're just mocking everyone" approach, and to a certain extent people just got tired of it. Like it's not kneejerk sensitivity, it's "I've heard the N-word enough times that I don't need to hear it used for ironic purposes." (And yeah there's the issue of folks doing it "ironically" but not really, etc.) I think also Mel Brooks has this philosophy -- he's explicitly said it about Hitler, but I imagine he extends the principle to other things as well -- that you can rob them of their power by making them laughable. So like the N-word gets dropped a lot in the movie but almost exclusively by complete and total buffoons that are easily tricked by a black man taking himself hostage. I don't think he'd do that same thing today, but I think there's also a Mel Brooks specific thing to it in addition to the 70s vibe
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Jul 22, 2022 21:58
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I mean, a movie recently came out where Hitler was a child's imaginary best friend and he was a giant idiot.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:27
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I was thinking more about using racial slurs like in blazing saddles. You wouldn't see that so much these days
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Jul 22, 2022 23:00
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christmas boots posted:I was thinking more about using racial slurs like in blazing saddles. this is the only thing people ever mean when they say "you couldn't make blazing saddles today," they don't care about the social commentary or whatever. they want to say the n word a lot and that's it
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Jul 22, 2022 23:12
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muscles like this! posted:They actually did remake Blazing Saddles as an animal cartoon that just came out in theaters. And by all accounts it's a few orders of magnitude more racist than anything in the original and none of it is political
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Jul 22, 2022 23:45
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RC and Moon Pie posted:Married With Children can get problematic with Al's and Marcy's relationship. He always wins the insult battle and he humiliates her far more than she humiliates him. That said, everybody triumphed over Marcy. It 'helps' that Marcy is by far the worst person on the show. She'd probably be a TERF if the show was made these days. Though she did get some victories over Al, all the same. The ethos of the show is that Al only wins when he is morally in the right- which is rare. When he put effort into being a better person, everything started to turn around for him. He treated people better and they treated him better in turn. Opportunities came his way- but one of those was the chance to cheat on his wife. And the one consistent thing about Al is that, deep down, he genuinely loves Peggy and refuses to leave her. So when faced with the reality that he could be a better person or he could continue being with his family "What do I have to prove? I'm married with children." The heart of the show really shines through the muck.
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Jul 23, 2022 01:26
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christmas boots posted:I was thinking more about using racial slurs like in blazing saddles. You wouldn't see that so much these days You seen Django Unchained?
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Jul 23, 2022 01:36
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Push El Burrito posted:You seen Django Unchained? Hateful eight was probably worse. I think even real confederates would have thought it was a bit much.
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Jul 23, 2022 01:41
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Django Unchained seems like a counterpoint to the stupid Blazing Saddles gripe, but Django Unchained came out ten years ago. Holy poo poo, ten years. Does that even count as “today” after the Trump-era time warp? (I do believe they could have made Django Unchained today.)
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Jul 23, 2022 01:51
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Cleretic posted:I've been watching a lot of Youtube video essays on old TV for some reason (look, Jose and Matt Baume are very good), and Married with Children is the one that threw me for a goddamn loop, since I'd never actually watched it; I'm not sure if it just didn't air in Australia or if by the time I was paying attention it was gone from anywhere worth watching, but it just wasn't around for me. jose pointed out a clip that i was really glad he did. it was from the episode where Al and NO MA'AM take over jerry springer's show, and marcy appears towards the end. she and al have this back and forth about feminism (which Al does a pretty terrible job arguing against) and then marcy hits him with the following line "all we (women) want is equal rights", to which the reaction from the audience is completely silent. i remember watching that even as a kid, who was cheering for al in almost every episode, and still thinking to myself "wait, what's wrong with what marcy said? isn't that a GOOD thing to try to strive towards?  "RC and Moon Pie posted:
sort of....the show went after all characters, but in terms of topics, it mainly focused on feminism being the punching bag. despite the show's reputation for being "politically incorrect", i can hardly recall any instances of the show being openly racist. the closest thing i could think of being something like Griff getting the death penalty cause he was the butt of a prank that went incredibly sideways
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Jul 23, 2022 02:28
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The main type of feminism that was the punching bag was Well Like I said, Marcy would totally be a TERF these days. At least TERF adjacent. Mind Al would argue against any feminism (poorly) but that's his whole shtick. One thing MwC 100% nailed though is that All Cops Are Bastards, and if you are a cop, you are that before you're a person.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:36
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Push El Burrito posted:You seen Django Unchained? Ambitious Spider posted:Hateful eight was probably worse. I think even real confederates would have thought it was a bit much. Bringing up Tarantino movies feels like cheating.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:41
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Thomamelas posted:
anecdotal evidence, but literally every woman i've dated, both younger and older than me had zero problems calling me "daddy" in bed. the reverse was not true, however, at least for the women that were younger than me. what does this imply about society? your guess is as good as mine
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Jul 23, 2022 03:09
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To quote Clive Barker: "Some boys never grew to be daddies, however many children they sired."
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Jul 23, 2022 03:21
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Mr Interweb posted:anecdotal evidence, but literally every woman i've dated, both younger and older than me had zero problems calling me "daddy" in bed. the reverse was not true, however, at least for the women that were younger than me. If you're calling your female partners Daddy, that may cause some conflict with their internalized gender roles. Next time offer to let them peg you and they may be more comfortable.
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Jul 23, 2022 04:09
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christmas boots posted:I was thinking more about using racial slurs like in blazing saddles. You wouldn't see that so much these days I hear Quentin Tarantino has a pass for the n-word that lets him use it as much as he wants.
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Jul 23, 2022 05:14
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Cleretic posted:Married with Children is the one that threw me for a goddamn loop, since I'd never actually watched it; I'm not sure if it just didn't air in Australia or if by the time I was paying attention it was gone from anywhere worth watching, but it just wasn't around for me.
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Jul 23, 2022 05:51
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I hear Quentin Tarantino has a pass for the n-word that lets him use it as much as he wants. It was in the briefcase.
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Jul 23, 2022 05:56
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oh i also remembered that they had episodes with gay and trans characters that were shockingly sympathetic for the early 90s
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Jul 23, 2022 06:08
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Mr Interweb posted:oh i also remembered that they had episodes with gay and trans characters that were shockingly sympathetic for the early 90s A lot of older sitcoms had surprisingly progressive takes on that kind of thing, like Edith Bunker defending her late lesbian cousin's will from Archie (he wanted an antique thing that she'd willed to her partner and was planning on blackmailing her to make it happen) and when he tried to bring up the idea of God's will and judgement, Edith just replied with "Yeah, but HE'S God. You're not."
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Jul 23, 2022 07:02
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BioEnchanted posted:A lot of older sitcoms had surprisingly progressive takes on that kind of thing, like Edith Bunker defending her late lesbian cousin's will from Archie (he wanted an antique thing that she'd willed to her partner and was planning on blackmailing her to make it happen) and when he tried to bring up the idea of God's will and judgement, Edith just replied with "Yeah, but HE'S God. You're not." Look into Carol O'Connor and it becomes a lot less surprising for that show in particular.
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Jul 23, 2022 07:46
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Mr Interweb posted:anecdotal evidence, but literally every woman i've dated, both younger and older than me had zero problems calling me "daddy" in bed. the reverse was not true, however, at least for the women that were younger than me. I remember when Boardwalk Empire first aired one of the characters called her lover daddy all the time. TVIV found that really creppy and weird. The show kind of portrayed it that way to. 10 years later it's more less mainstream almost vanilla. Stuff changes fast
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Jul 23, 2022 08:49
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I bet it'd be a lot harder at the time to get those kinda themes and portrayals into shows with a 'wholesome' brand. Reminds me of how The Addams Family had basically the healthiest and most clearly sexually active marriage of any TV show at the time.
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Jul 23, 2022 09:11
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Married With Children did an episode about buying a bra and it drove conservatives into a frothing rage
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Jul 23, 2022 09:17
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:Married With Children did an episode about buying a bra and it drove conservatives into a frothing rage And then was the episode where the Bundys and the Rhoades went to a cabin and all the women got their periods at the same time. And the one where Marcy & Steve found out they were being taped having sex at a local motel. THAT one was never aired in the original run. These were in the same season as the bra episode. As for All in the Family, the first episode (which was also the third pilot), CBS aired a disclaimer, “The program you are about to see is All In The Family. It seeks to throw a humorous spotlight on our frailties, prejudices, and concerns. By making them a source of laughter, we hope to show – in a mature fashion – just how absurd they are.” It amazed Norman Lear and O'Connor that people made a conservative hero out of Archie.
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Jul 23, 2022 12:44
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Mister Kingdom posted:
Nowadays that wouldn't even bat an eye, there'd be at least one executive producer pushing for it behind the scenes.
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Jul 23, 2022 14:09
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I think what liberal writers miss in their satirical portrayals of conservatives is a belief that it is at all possible for them to feel shame. Racists and bigots don’t care that Archie Bunker is consistently shown to be a fool and the butt of every joke, they love him because there’s someone on TV who is racist and bigoted like them.
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Jul 23, 2022 14:43
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shame is just converted to anger so quickly in their brains that they don't even register it
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Jul 23, 2022 15:02
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The same thing happened with Stephen Colbert. Part of it may be that conservatives also have a fundamentally different understanding of comedy as well. They liked Colbert because they perceived him as exaggerating reasonable beliefs for effect or “being silly” in a nonspecific way rather than attempting to ridicule those beliefs. And they liked hearing someone say things they agreed with. Irony is a poor tool to get people to think or change their minds.
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Jul 23, 2022 17:03
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I’d say that Colbert and All in the Family were generally playing to like-minded liberals, anyway. The satire wasn’t really intended to get conservatives to reconsider their beliefs, even if it did play into the liberal fantasy that conservatives could change if they got owned hard enough.
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Jul 23, 2022 17:08
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