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Let’s not forget that while the Empire and Alliance have their own problems, there’s the whole bucket of worms that is the Kingdom and how resistant to change they are with an almost fanatical worship of crests. I don’t remember Dimitri ever expressing that change is needed now even with how crazy the kingdom is or is one of those wish-washy “these things take time”.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:09
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Finished AG and man, y'all weren't kidding that the ending is 30 seconds long lol. What the hell is up with that. jimmydalad posted:Let’s not forget that while the Empire and Alliance have their own problems, there’s the whole bucket of worms that is the Kingdom and how resistant to change they are with an almost fanatical worship of crests. I don’t remember Dimitri ever expressing that change is needed now even with how crazy the kingdom is or is one of those wish-washy “these things take time”. Dimitri repeatedly says in AG that change can't come while the Kingdom still can't even feed its populace and even if he agrees that the Church is iffy the Church is what gives him the right to rule and without them there'd be endless succession wars. On one hand he's sort of valid, but on the other he's the prototypical person of privilege telling the oppressed that they just need to be patient cause it's not the right time for change.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:16
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Epi Lepi posted:Finished AG and man, y'all weren't kidding that the ending is 30 seconds long lol. What the hell is up with that. I think there's also a certain amount of Dimitri saying "I would literally have to declare war on my own vassals to implement the reforms you're demanding" and Claude and Edelgard responding with "no worries, bro, we already declared war on your vassals so you don't have to; just put the loving spear down."
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Jul 23, 2022 02:18
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Seriously, it's all Ingrid's fault.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:25
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I think my favorite lore addition in Hopes is the bonus chapter chat between Claude and Edelgard. Edelgard straight up admits she hopes Dimitri gives her an excuse to dismantle the Kingdom, because it's the best way to keep Rhea from returning to power, while Claude is shocked she doesn't plan to kill Rhea, which would be so much easier and has always been his plan. Just the little dawning realization that he is both more ruthless and ambitious than Edelgard.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:32
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Claude is the best boy, now more than ever
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Jul 23, 2022 02:41
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I'm sorry, but he's really not. He's a pretty good boy, sure, but this is also the game that contains the best of all boys. Other boys may be smarter or cooler or more competent, but when it comes to raw unadulterated Being a Good Boy, I don't think anyone in any media quite measure up to Ferdinand von Aegir.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:46
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Ferdinand and Hubert really steal the show in 3 Hopes. It's tragic what happened to Billy, but it really is a performance that outshines 3 Houses by such an incredible margin.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:49
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On the one hand I really wish that Ferdinand and Dorothea's Hopes supports had something new going on instead of retreading the same origin story from another angle. On the other hand though, their Hopes A support is just perfect. 
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Jul 23, 2022 02:54
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Clawtopsy posted:Ferdinand and Hubert really steal the show in 3 Hopes. It's tragic what happened to Billy, but it really is a performance that outshines 3 Houses by such an incredible margin. Three Hopes really benefits from being able to skip the "I am seventeen years old and kind of obnoxious" phase of the story.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:58
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I suppose this is the place to ask- is there a good playthrough or lets play of this game? I love everything I've heard about the character writing but I bounced off it super hard. I don't really enjoy action games, sadly.
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Jul 23, 2022 03:20
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Mekkah just finished up his LP of Claude's route, the first video is kinda rambling because it's an archive of him streaming the Demo which is the first couple chapters, but after that it's quite digestible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn_s4K-Xr1Q
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Jul 23, 2022 03:26
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Mekkah is poo poo. Just use Linkmastr.
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Jul 23, 2022 03:37
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Just saw Bernadetta and Caspar's B support and yeah it does make sense that being raised by his dad would do a number on what he thinks is anything approaching normal.
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Jul 23, 2022 03:40
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Hopes is interesting because on one hand you could say that Dimitri's reticence to implement change in the kingdom in the face of the politics there is realistic, but Hopes shows that all the Lords had their hands tied, it's just that Edelgard and Claude do something about it. Edelgard clears out the Slitherers, way too easily but it lets them hammer home that she would've gone to war without them, while Claude gets frustrated with the roundtables til he maneuvers his close friends into positions where they can vote him absolute power. Dimitri complains that sure what Edelgard is doing is nice but he just can't change right now. And he doesn't change poo poo.
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Jul 23, 2022 04:51
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It's pretty clear that Dimitri actually is reforming the Kingdom, though. It just comes with a lot of recriminations from the Western lords that he's constantly fighting back against. They talk quite a lot about reform in AG, like adapting so that they aren't so reliant on crests and relics for their military prowess. It's not the same as Edelgard's 'cut the rot out' approach but it's not nothing.
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Jul 23, 2022 05:06
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Eimi posted:Hopes is interesting because on one hand you could say that Dimitri's reticence to implement change in the kingdom in the face of the politics there is realistic, but Hopes shows that all the Lords had their hands tied, it's just that Edelgard and Claude do something about it. Edelgard clears out the Slitherers, way too easily but it lets them hammer home that she would've gone to war without them, while Claude gets frustrated with the roundtables til he maneuvers his close friends into positions where they can vote him absolute power. Dimitri complains that sure what Edelgard is doing is nice but he just can't change right now. And he doesn't change poo poo. To be (somewhat) fair to Dimitri, Hopes also adds the context that one of the big reasons he's wary of radical reform is because his dad tried to push for similar modernization efforts/checks on the nobility and ended up sparking a counter-revolutionary movement that ultimately culminated in the Tragedy of Duscar, which is kinda the locus of his entire mental break. So it makes sense that he'd have some real hangups about doing the same thing over and would likewise be worried that Edelgard and Claude's plans could end up culminating in similarly brutal ends. Also near the end of GW Dimitri does end up being convinced by Claude to abandon Rhea and the Church to sure up his defensive line against the Empire, which shows he was only ever helping Rhea out of obligation and - if push came to shove between his kingdom and the church, he's picking the former. Sydin fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jul 23, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 05:11
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Dimitri should honestly just sell Edelgard western Fargeus for a huge sack of cash. They rebel and join the Empire on a biweekly basis anyhow, and are behind every block to reform and sinister conspiracy in the country. They’re more trouble than they’re worth. Make them Edelgards problem.
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Jul 23, 2022 05:17
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I have finished all three routes and now offer my judgments: GW is my favourite for giving Claude a route firmly led by his goals and ambitions that explores his flaws as much as his virtues. One thing I struggled with in 3H is that Claude is so good at keeping secrets that even the player never finds out who he really is until the end scroll of the game. In this, although he doesn't reveal his royal lineage to everyone, it's confronted that he keeps secrets from his allies, and he is forced to be more open about things like his Randolph scheme. You miss out a bit on his endless well of curiosity for the mysteries of Fodlan and Garreg Mach, but that's because without Byleth and with the academy closed he's just not as familiar with them. I really enjoyed what this game did for his character, and how it showed him constantly working to find a path forward for the alliance. SB is my second favourite. It has my favourite cast, I just love the Eagles, and in addition it's the only route with playable Manuela. I really enjoyed being able to see what an Edelgard without the Slitherers would do, but since ultimately that is mostly the same as 3H with fewer atrocities, it got a little boring. I think it also needs 3H the most to make sense, since you don't really get any context on why Edelgard is opposed to the Church so there's less emotional heft. AG is my third favourite -- NOT my least favourite! Just third! I like seeing a more stable and in control Dimitri, and the changed context of the Kingdom allows for the Faerghus childhood friends in particular to be explored from different angles, which I thought was great. As an Edelgard fan, I didn't like that you weren't really fighting her for a lot of it. I think that's boring, the thing I liked about 3H was the lords having these incredibly emotionally charged conflicts! But zombie Edelgard is just a nothing. I get that you kinda can't let Dimitri and Edelgard talk anything out because their inability to do so is a part of the conflict, but this was the most disappointing way of doing it. My personal favourite character from this game, in terms of getting better character development: Petra. We got a lot more from her about renegotiating her and Brigid's place in the power struggles of Fodlan, and I really enjoyed that. Favourite minor named NPCs: Fenja and Menja are like the pallet swap pegasus knight trios of FE4 and I love them for it. Can't believe they turn up in two routes, PLUS their lore is explained in a random support. Incredible.
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Jul 23, 2022 05:22
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Zwingley posted:I'm fairly convinced Hilda is as strong as Dimitri, she just pretends not to be so she won't chip a nail Ursine Catastrophe posted:In hindsight, Arval had a paralogue with a very missable NG+ requirement, are there ones for Rhea and Sothis buried somewhere? No. Only Arval gets a paralogue where you can play as them in the story, mainly because Shez and Arval experience a linked dream about a battle that Arval's precursor participated in (with Arval taking the place of said precursor for the battle they are dreaming about). Considering every paralogue requires that Shez be present in some form, I'm guessing they thought that Arval was the only one who made sense to get a paralogue where they could be playable. Eimi posted:Hopes is interesting because on one hand you could say that Dimitri's reticence to implement change in the kingdom in the face of the politics there is realistic, but Hopes shows that all the Lords had their hands tied, it's just that Edelgard and Claude do something about it. Edelgard clears out the Slitherers, way too easily but it lets them hammer home that she would've gone to war without them, while Claude gets frustrated with the roundtables til he maneuvers his close friends into positions where they can vote him absolute power. Dimitri complains that sure what Edelgard is doing is nice but he just can't change right now. And he doesn't change poo poo. Eh, I think Dimitri absolutely has a point about it. His way of going about change is slower than the other two, but with how radical Edelgard and Claude changes are, they have to be around and in power to ensure that those changes stick and will last beyond their lifetime. Dimitri by contrast implements changes more slowly, but this ensures they have a better chance to stick should something unforeseen happen to Fhaergus.
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Jul 23, 2022 05:29
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Folt The Bolt posted:More like she could be as strong as Dimitri if she actually decided to train to get stronger. As she is now, she definitely won't. Does he? The reforms his father was fighting for were much, much less ambitious than anything Edelgard or Claude is attempting and once the immediate war is over there's not really anything that suggests the nobility won't just pull a Duscar II: Dusc harder on him even with his gradual and slow reforms. Like one of the massive issues of AG is that Dimitri isn't even really successfully managing Ferghus while they're in what should be an absolute slam dunk position of 'being attacked by an outside long term enemy'. Zore fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jul 23, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 05:36
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I think the most interesting part of AG is just how much it contrasts AM. It's the route most preoccupied with the Slitherers and their manipulations. Like genuinely only something like 4 chapters are not focused on slitherer stuff. Even the Western Lord's and Lonato defecting to the Empire was influenced by them, to inspire more war between kingdom and empire, with Lonato's sudden charge into battle before the empire could support him being very much their manipulations too. The entire plot is Dimitri slowly rooting out the slitherers and their conspirators and killing his way across his own country and the empire to end them. In the path of doing so, he kills every single slitherer by the end - including it being the only path where we see Thales' corpse as he's reamed through with a relic, as compared to the other routes where its either 'theres no way he survived that explosion' or just not a kill at all. The entire war with the empire is tangential to this war with those who slither in the dark. Its not the thrust of what he cares about, its not core to his desires, and provides nothing that makes him feel good for continuing. The only reason the war goes on is because he keeps finding more slitherers in the empire, whenever his revenge seems even slightly finished. Its curious what this means for after the end. He has cleansed basically all the slitherers - Cornelia (Cleobulus), Kronya, Myson, Solon, and Thales are dead on screen. All of their conspirators in the Kingdom are dead. Almost all of their conspirators in the Empire are dead. The only place they might still have a power base is Ordelia territory, since we never see Lysithea on the route. But seeing as they are ending with close ties between claude and Dimitri and claude is at least vaguely aware of the slitherers (based on how he tells Dimitri to end the dark mage threat once and for all) i doubt that will last long. Its such a sharp contrast to AM where you never even learn the slitherers are a thing (though you still murder every single one of them on that route).
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Jul 23, 2022 06:48
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Folt The Bolt posted:Eh, I think Dimitri absolutely has a point about it. His way of going about change is slower than the other two, but with how radical Edelgard and Claude changes are, they have to be around and in power to ensure that those changes stick and will last beyond their lifetime. Dimitri by contrast implements changes more slowly, but this ensures they have a better chance to stick should something unforeseen happen to Fhaergus. Hard disagree with this. The only reason his changes have any chance of sticking around is that he is purged what feels a decent portion of the nobility in his realm. To make matters worse for him is that he still has to deal with Rhea.
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Jul 23, 2022 06:57
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I think the best part about Azure Gleam is how Dimitri volunteers the information that he's an idiot. Cornelia: "Edelgard knows the truth about Duscur!" Dimitri: "Only a fool would simply believe her. Yet I don't think she's lying. And then goes to proving it shortly after: Edelgard: "Thales is the one behind the tragedy, that evil guy over there who is currently attacking me with evil magic stuff. Care to do something about this or do I have to be the cooler lord in your route despite only getting one loving scene to do so?" (slightly paraphrased) Dimitri, later: "I'm not entirely sure if I should believe her story."
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Jul 23, 2022 07:35
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Kanos posted:Claude's actions in Hopes are a little morally ambiguous but he's still fundamentally a good person on his route. I really wish that was the case, because it would have made Claude a significantly more interesting character, but unfortunately the game makes it very clear after that he really thought he could Randolph and keep the Leicester army safe. He still made the decision that prioritized his army's safety over that of the imperial army, but even after the fact he's delusing himself about how cold that scheme was. One of the weaker points of Claude's route is that he doesn't really face any backlash from his army about this decision, and that nobody calls him out on it either.
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Jul 23, 2022 07:40
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Cloacamazing! posted:I really wish that was the case, because it would have made Claude a significantly more interesting character, but unfortunately the game makes it very clear after that he really thought he could Randolph and keep the Leicester army safe. He still made the decision that prioritized his army's safety over that of the imperial army, but even after the fact he's delusing himself about how cold that scheme was. One of the weaker points of Claude's route is that he doesn't really face any backlash from his army about this decision, and that nobody calls him out on it either. Sounds like Dimitri and his three houses route.
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Jul 23, 2022 07:50
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Cloacamazing! posted:I really wish that was the case, because it would have made Claude a significantly more interesting character, but unfortunately the game makes it very clear after that he really thought he could Randolph and keep the Leicester army safe. He still made the decision that prioritized his army's safety over that of the imperial army, but even after the fact he's delusing himself about how cold that scheme was. One of the weaker points of Claude's route is that he doesn't really face any backlash from his army about this decision, and that nobody calls him out on it either. Huh? Judith specifically calls him out on it, and other characters are in disbelief about what happened and aren't really sure if Claude actually did it intentionally or not. It's specifically the catalyst for them demanding that he let them in on the planning process.
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Jul 23, 2022 08:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3kklbbeqfs This is an older video that was released around the time of the demo, but it’s pretty cool.
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Jul 23, 2022 08:28
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Kanos posted:Huh? Judith specifically calls him out on it, and other characters are in disbelief about what happened and aren't really sure if Claude actually did it intentionally or not. It's specifically the catalyst for them demanding that he let them in on the planning process. They aren't really sure, but Claude says he didn't plan it. Unless he's putting on an act, but that would quickly go towards making him unredeemable.
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Jul 23, 2022 08:31
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Cloacamazing! posted:They aren't really sure, but Claude says he didn't plan it. Unless he's putting on an act, but that would quickly go towards making him unredeemable. He does make it clear that his plans priorities were in order: 1. Keeping everyone from the Federation alive. 2. Killing Catherine explicitly. 3. Killing as many knights of Seiros as possible And then finally at number 4 was 'help our imperial allies'. But you're right that no one really calls him out on the sacrifice of allies insomuch as they get offended at him thinking they need to be coddled and protected like that. The only two with strong moral objections are Judith and Marianne (and shez if you choose the option). Everyone else is mkre just mad that he doesn't trust them enough to use them more fully. Personally, I would have preferred if it was intentional. It makes sense tactically even if unsound morally. Randolph and his army is part of a foreign force that as recently as a few months ago was actively invading and trying to destroy their nation. They're allies for now, but even during the meeting Claude makes it clear that it's probably only gonna be an alliance until their mutual goal of no more church is done, (or that he doesn't trust it to exist past that at least). Using the chance to cripple the part of their army that is primed to invade right after a success against the church? It would fit his brilliant schemer shtick. Instead it's entirely voiced as 'I am concerned for my friends and want to keep them safe, and those I don't know personally are lower priority.' There's no genius tactical decision or 'perfectly rational' weighing of cost benefit, it was just him wanting to protect his people. Which is a lot more morally boring to me. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Jul 23, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 08:51
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Cloacamazing! posted:They aren't really sure, but Claude says he didn't plan it. Unless he's putting on an act, but that would quickly go towards making him unredeemable. Claude very deliberately planned the battle in a way that used his ostensible allies as human shields to preserve his own forces. He didn't rub his hands together and cackle and go "ha ha, all according to keikaku", but he absolutely intended to let them die to protect his own, to the point where Catherine is spitting curses at how cowardly the Federation is before you kill her.
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Jul 23, 2022 09:28
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Also, while Randolph is scripted to die, his NPC allies are not, and you can end the battle with a bunch of them alive if you hustle and send in some healers as soon as the door opens. Yet after the battle, Claude will report that not a single Imperial soldier made it out alive. Someone must have ensured no one would talk even after every single church unit was dead. 
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Jul 23, 2022 09:55
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So I decided to play Hercules Warriors again and I remember what caused me to not enjoy the game as much. Having to find the stupid heart containers and Golden Skulltulas.
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Jul 23, 2022 12:33
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jimmydalad posted:So I decided to play Hercules Warriors again and I remember what caused me to not enjoy the game as much. Having to find the stupid heart containers and Golden Skulltulas. On the plus side, Zeus and Hades are pretty overpowered and Megaera has a hell of a super.
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Jul 23, 2022 12:39
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Judge Tesla posted:On the plus side, Zeus and Hades are pretty overpowered and Megaera has a hell of a super. Ngl, would totally play a Musou game based off gods from mythology. I did mean Hyrule Warriors but autocorrect likes making me look stupid.
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Jul 23, 2022 13:42
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jimmydalad posted:Ngl, would totally play a Musou game based off gods from mythology. I did mean Hyrule Warriors but autocorrect likes making me look stupid. That's just Warriors Orochi 4
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Jul 23, 2022 18:18
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Gimme a Musou game based off of Supergiant's Hades where you can actually play as all the cthonic gods, tia.
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Jul 23, 2022 18:55
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The war against Kronos and Typhon would be an interesting period if you did want to go this way.
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Jul 23, 2022 21:46
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The problem is the game kind of treats doing things slowly as inherently more acceptable which I don’t understand why. The whole point of doing things slowly is you are out maneuvering the nobility. So to do it you need to trick them play them against each other. Just doing it slowly isn’t gonna make the nobility forget what your doing
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Jul 23, 2022 22:01
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Does it? Like Dimitri keeps saying that that's the case, but everyone from party members to random camp guests keep chiming in how cool they are with broad sweeping changes on the other routes.
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Jul 24, 2022 00:34
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