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Pththya-lyi posted:"Armchair diagnoses fictional characters as autistic" is such an autistic trait it should be in the DSM Also "May be trans/gender-non comforming" but that would kinda be yikes to include.
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Jul 19, 2022 20:12
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Perestroika posted:Yeah, same here. Usually I just replay certain phrases in my head, but every now and then I find myself verbalizing them. I used to think it was just a variant of an ear worm, even though it's not always musical, nor have I physically ever heard them from anywhere but myself. It wasn't until I ended up in an unexpectedly stressful situation and then right afterwards noticed myself mentally and verbally cycling through all those phrases rapid-fire for a few minutes that I realized "hold on, that seems like it's a stim". In my case it stems from my school days. Most of the kids in my class were some form of ND so we ALL did it. We'd be doing whatever the gently caress we were doing that lesson and one of us would bust out with some dumb repetitive phrase that didn't mean anything to anyone except us and we would all just crack up.
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Jul 21, 2022 06:18
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You're talking about echolalia, and it's pretty common.
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Jul 21, 2022 07:31
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quote:You realize that coming in here with some anecdotes about how some neurodivergent/disabled strangers on the bus are weird to you isn’t a good look? Bro this is literally an AMA thread and I was just asking a question that piqued my curiosity. Others have responded in a way that is not so condescending. How about you learn some manners yourself. Bank fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Jul 21, 2022 21:04
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Was he listening to the Little Mermaid OST? Maybe you're reading too much into it.
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Jul 22, 2022 15:26
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You realize that coming in here with some anecdotes about how some neurodivergent/disabled strangers on the bus are weird to you isn’t a good look?
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Jul 22, 2022 16:37
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I dealt with all sorts of folks in my days in a social workplace, and I came to accept that it's not my place to know or understand what everyone's problem is, why they're doing certain things, etc.
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Jul 22, 2022 16:37
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Violet_Sky posted:Also "May be trans/gender-non comforming" but that would kinda be yikes to include. It's not enough to be a good diagnostic criterion (since there are loads of cis autistic people and neurotypical trans people in the world) but there are real studies showing trans people are significantly more likely to have autism or demonstrate autistic traits, compared to cis people. quote:In this study, we investigated three primary questions, and an additional exploratory question using five different, large-scale datasets. First, across all five datasets, transgender and gender-diverse individuals were 3.03 to 6.36 times as likely to be autistic than were cisgender individuals, after controlling for age and educational attainment. Second, transgender and gender-diverse individuals scored significantly higher on self-report measures of autistic traits, systemizing and sensory sensitivity and scored significantly lower on empathy traits compared to cisgender individuals. [...] IDK what the chances are the other way though, for "if someone is autistic they are X% more likely to be trans".
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Jul 22, 2022 19:19
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My controversial opinion is that the amount of people who are neurodiverse but undiagnosed or refuse to accept it will skew any statistics like that. I'm not trying to suggest that neurodiversity and trans identities are correlated, but that a person who is unwilling to accept diversity in their neeurology is probably also going to be unwilling to accept diversity in their experience of gender, at least to some extent. In a way, it's not that rates are higher in neurodiverse people, I think rates are under-reported in allistic people. Lot of people probably closeting themselves to fit in.
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Jul 22, 2022 20:17
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Bobby Deluxe posted:In a way, it's not that rates are higher in neurodiverse people, I think rates are under-reported in allistic people. Lot of people probably closeting themselves to fit in. I wonder what the breakdown is on the distribution of types of gender diversity among autistics vs allistics. My hunch is that a decent chunk of the increase among autistic people is in the gender non-conforming section, as that can come from just a general rejection of society's enforced gender roles. Feels like rejecting that sort of social construct is very much in our wheelhouse. I've never actually applied any gender diverse labels to myself but if I grew up now I probably would have. I did reject masculine societal expectations placed on me and had interests and fashion choices that regularly got me misgendered or accused of being gay. Now I'm old and my fashion is boring and I look generally like any dude because I got sick of being a target. I have actually thought about this a lot recently and considered identifying as gender non-conforming or non-binary but I don't really care about what pronouns people use for me and I think using those labels on myself would just lead to more confusion and uncomfortable conversations. If I was I was a teenager I would have had the energy for it.
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Jul 22, 2022 20:54
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TIP posted:I wonder what the breakdown is on the distribution of types of gender diversity among autistics vs allistics. I too rejected my assigned gender norms as a kid and shockingly my parents were okay with it. (Except of that one brief period of time my dad wanted me to wear skirts because I needed to grow up or something. It makes about as much sense as you think it does. Wearing skirts wouldn't have stopped me from being gay/trans anyway.) Eventually I grew to be okay with my assigned gender but as a kid I would have identified as genderqueer or some such had any positive representation been available to me. I know an autistic person who is a few years younger than me found through tumblr that they were NB but I think I was a bit too old for tumblr to have any real effect.
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Jul 22, 2022 22:27
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I have distinct memories of struggling to comprehend this “gender” stuff I was being told about as a kid. I knew that there were men/boys and women/girls, but I was unsatisfied with how the adults I spoke to about it defined them. Physical characteristics? Inconsistent. Behavior? Why would acting one way make you a boy or girl? Hobbies? My parents never put boundaries on what I was allowed to like as a “girl.” Eventually, I gave up and accepted the default. Those memories and more came back to me when I learned about non-binary genders as an adult. I wish I had known much earlier. My gender is ? and my pronouns are “whatever you think works for me.” I don’t plan on coming out of the closet for the vast majority of people I know any time soon, since I can stomach being labeled as cis by people… most of the time. It’s complicated. I generally believe that autistic people are probably not more likely to be trans/non-binary/GNC; however, we’re less attached to social norms that place us in binary gender roles. It’s hard to say without a study, but it’s not easy to study. 
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Jul 22, 2022 22:50
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TIP posted:If I was I was a teenager I would have had the energy for it. I also didn't know gender neutral was an option. I knew gay was now (mostly) allowed, I knew people could transition from one binary to the other (because of a shop my dad used to mock at the bottom of Westgate Road, by the goth shop), but neither of those felt right. I had no idea you could just opt out entirely, even though when I was at college I loved having long hair, and at uni I used to wear eyeliner and nail varnish because the town I moved to was a lot safer than where I grew up. But then I got a proper job and it was a thing that I just kind of stopped doing completely. Honestly if I hadn't lost the job because of RSI, there are a lot of things I wouldn't have questioned and I'd probably be a stressed out wreck, if not dead from a heart attack. Makes me wonder how many other autistic people are high-functioning enough to slip under the radar and never realise their true self. Now though, I'm old and tired, and just dragging myself out of bed to face another day is a huge effort, I don't have the strength left to fight over something like that. I can barely be arsed to shave let alone get a makeup routine down.
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Jul 22, 2022 23:38
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Yeah I'd be very surprised if the autistics are more likely to be trans thing is anything more than autistic people are more likely to not absorb the societal gender roles being forced on them and therefore more likely to recognise dysphoria and do something about it.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:19
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Neurodivergent people are more likely to marry and have kids with each other than they are neurotypicals and that makes some conditions comorbid that don't have any underlying biological connection. There could be something there too.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:28
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broken pixel posted:I generally believe that autistic people are probably not more likely to be trans/non-binary/GNC; however, we’re less attached to social norms that place us in binary gender roles. It’s hard to say without a study, but it’s not easy to study. This is where i think the corelation lies. Gender roles/identity never made sense to me and i experienced some dismorphia as a preeteen. OTOH I got male bits and i find female bodies more enticing than male ones but i don't identify as cis het. Thanks to the new language we use about this stuff i can confidently out myself as non-binary but my sexual identity is still a mix of cis, bi, and mostly but not entirely uninterested in being intimate with other people. So thats me and now that we have words to describe an identity i can see my reflection in, i'm back to the question of why do we even need these identities? They restrict and confine people to little boxes. They point out the differences between and obscure the similarities. I hate needing identities but it helps community building and thats the only way to fight bigots and chuds.
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Jul 23, 2022 19:07
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I think the flexibility has to come from allowing our (and others') identities to change over time.
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Jul 23, 2022 19:43
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I’ve always just felt like myself, hated being lumped in with “the girls” but also being mistaken for a boy made me pretty angry. My parents didn’t encourage any particular gender role either. My “Communications for Engineering” course I did at uni strongly encouraged using gender neutral language and I remember being very excited about that. So finding out that there is a name for how I feel and that there are plenty of other people who feel the same (in their own ways) was pretty cool and I wish I’d known about being non-binary earlier. Same as wishing I’d known earlier about being autistic I guess. Mostly it’s something I keep to myself because it’s not any one else’s business. I don’t really have dysmorphia since I like this body that I grew by myself but boobs can be pretty annoying and get in the way sometimes. I don’t have any desire to look femme or masc and I think that is separate for me anyway - I don’t feel like I have to broadcast or express that part of myself although I can understand why other people might want to.
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Jul 23, 2022 19:56
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This discussion makes me happy. I wasn't sure how my  post of "I'd probably identify as non-binary if I wasn't old" would be taken, seeing so many people post similar things that I really relate to is very nice. 
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Jul 23, 2022 20:49
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I tried and deleted two pots itt about gender identity and asd before you got yours out. Its hard to get over the learned reaction of "hey don't talk about that with people they wont get it". On top of that is the whole "guys don't talk about feelings" thing. DiHK fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 23, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 22:34
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DiHK posted:I tried and deleted two pots itt about gender identity and asd before you got yours out. Same.  It's a tricky topic, and as a cishet identifying guy I was really afraid of putting my foot directly in my mouth. Kinda reminds me of the #metoo movement, where I wanted to join the conversation to talk about my own experiences with being sexually harassed and assaulted but I was afraid some people would interpret it as, "Hey it's hard for straight white guys too!" I think some of the reticence maybe comes from my natural inclination to relate to people through personal anecdotes, a behavior that some people REALLY hate so I have learned to self-censor and really consider before I do it. TIP fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jul 23, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 22:55
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We are all autistic people who've spent years trying to navigate the minefield of allistic dominated communication platforms, it's understandable that we're all a bit "not sure I should post this, will people kick off?" I feel like a lot of my posts are huge infodumps, so I always worry after posting "Am I being an rear end in a top hat here?"
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Jul 23, 2022 23:43
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TIP posted:I think some of the reticence maybe comes from my natural inclination to relate to people through personal anecdotes, a behavior that some people REALLY hate so I have learned to self-censor and really consider before I do it. I do this a lot too because it's my way of showing that I'm paying attention to what's being said. I often give a caviat of "I'm saying this because I'm trying to relate to you" and if they still get mad, then I often stop giving them my time/attention. Gender talk: I relate to a lot of what's been said, but I still feel a significant amount of dysphoria only when I'm around other people. When I'm myself, my body (female) & gender (nonbinary/agender) are incidental at best.
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Jul 23, 2022 23:58
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SetsunaMeioh posted:I do this a lot too because it's my way of showing that I'm paying attention to what's being said. I often give a caviat of "I'm saying this because I'm trying to relate to you" and if they still get mad, then I often stop giving them my time/attention.
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Jul 24, 2022 00:00
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SetsunaMeioh posted:incidental at best. Exactly. Like it only matters in the context of other people where it gets misused to make assumptions. TIP posted:relate to people through personal anecdotes I do this. At some point I learned that an NT interpretation could be that I'm making it about myself. AND when people are trying to make it about themselves it's pretty obvious. SO when I do it do I come off as if I'm trying to make it about myself? This is a terrible mess. better to just not with other people. 
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Jul 24, 2022 01:43
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All of this about deleting stuff, info dumping, relating to people through stories... same to all of it. ADHD meds help me break down that wall, but sometimes, I get embarrassed after the fact, even if the reaction to what I said/did was good.
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Jul 24, 2022 02:59
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I feel like 'non-binary woman' is closest to how I feel. I definitely am not a man but 'woman' doesn't feel like it's quite me either.
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Jul 24, 2022 03:18
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HopperUK posted:I feel like 'non-binary woman' is closest to how I feel. I definitely am not a man but 'woman' doesn't feel like it's quite me either. I find it ironic that if you want to escape the binary you get labeled non-binary. "Are you a man or a woman?" "I don't believe in binaries." "Well I'll just mark down non-binary then." "Wait, that doesn't seem quite right..." "Look either you're binary or not, this should be an easy choice if you don't believe in binaries. 🙄" It's like a Monty Python skit or something.
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Jul 24, 2022 03:49
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HopperUK posted:I feel like 'non-binary woman' is closest to how I feel. I definitely am not a man but 'woman' doesn't feel like it's quite me either. If there was a way to just opt out of gender entirely and just be a they/them androgyne, I could definitely go for that.
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Jul 24, 2022 03:57
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Bobby Deluxe posted:My ideal would be Gozer from the end of Ghostbusters, maybe without so many bubbles. You can't tell the gender by looking, and also because I want the whole world to kneel before me. I mean I can't say I wouldn't want to look like that, but I *would* want the bubbles. They look great.
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Jul 24, 2022 21:35
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I was just catching up on the TVIV thread for the Orville and people were arguing that an episode was offensive because a character who's dating an emotionless robot pressured him to have a procedure that would give him emotions. They said this was offensive because the robot was neurodivergent and she was asking him to be normal. Holy hell that take is so loving offensive. I'm not going to say anything in that thread because the discussion is weeks old but it's so frustrating to see people "defend" you by claiming you're an emotionless robot. There is no form of neurodivergence that means you lack emotions, pretty sure the only living humans who lack emotions are literally braindead. Also, I'm very happy to treat my ADHD and if there was a pill I could take that eased my autism and made it easier for me to relate to NT people I'd happily try it. Especially if I was in a relationship with someone I really cared about and they asked me to try it for them because we'd been having issues in that area. Sorry for the random rant I just needed somewhere to vent my frustration after reading that discussion. It really wound me up despite the fact that I'm an emotionless robot.
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Jul 30, 2022 10:31
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TIP posted:Also, I'm very happy to treat my ADHD and if there was a pill I could take that eased my autism and made it easier for me to relate to NT people I'd happily try it. There is, it's called MDMA. Not something you can use every day though, to put it mildly. Edit: to clarify, with MDMA I found it effortless to understand how people felt, how they were reacting and would react to things I said or did, in a way that is totally out of reach for me sober. for fucks sake fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jul 30, 2022 |
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Jul 30, 2022 12:41
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TIP posted:I was just catching up on the TVIV thread for the Orville and people were arguing that an episode was offensive because a character who's dating an emotionless robot pressured him to have a procedure that would give him emotions. This is a common problem with writing robot or alien characters. A writer will take a typical human and subtract some quality we typically associate with humans -- such as the ability to experience romantic love or understand subtext -- and inadvertently create a character that resembles an autistic and/or asexual person. This video essay goes into some more detail about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZGRdxP_8Js&t=669s The solution is more autistic and asexual human characters, written by -- or at least in consultation with -- autistic and asexual people. Thankfully this is already starting to happen.
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Jul 30, 2022 16:24
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Pththya-lyi posted:This is a common problem with writing robot or alien characters. A writer will take a typical human and subtract some quality we typically associate with humans -- such as the ability to experience romantic love or understand subtext -- and inadvertently create a character that resembles an autistic and/or asexual person. I think the Orville does a surprisingly good job of making their robot character genuinely alien and not just a human minus some characteristics. I certainly don't relate to him. I think the actual problem is that people continue to have broad misconceptions about what it means to be autistic and don't realize how offensive it is to characterize us as emotionless or in some way less than human. More autistic representation written by autistic people could help somewhat to expand people's perceptions of what autism can be but I don't think it effectively teaches people what autism can't be. So when a robot comes on screen they'll still lean over to their date and whisper, "That's a autism."
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Jul 30, 2022 19:21
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This whole being thought of as emotionless really confuses me. I've had people say that I seemed that way my entire life, and unfortunately I tend to believe things people say about me, so I wondered for quite a while if that was what was wrong with me. I eventually came to the conclusion that I did have emotions, through a very complicated thought process that involved creating a story with an emotionless protagonist and deciding, after thinking up his personality and thought process, that this wasn't how I felt. Yes, I know that's weird. It makes complete sense to me though. What I don't get is where this autism = emontionless thing even comes from. I guess it's the whole "genius too busy for emotions" thing from pop culture? But that's shown to be a lie in every single case.
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Jul 30, 2022 20:29
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Cloacamazing! posted:This whole being thought of as emotionless really confuses me. I've had people say that I seemed that way my entire life, and unfortunately I tend to believe things people say about me, so I wondered for quite a while if that was what was wrong with me. I eventually came to the conclusion that I did have emotions, through a very complicated thought process that involved creating a story with an emotionless protagonist and deciding, after thinking up his personality and thought process, that this wasn't how I felt. It's because some people with autism don't show their emotions in expression and body language in a way that's easily read by neurotypical people. You know how folk say fish don't feel pain just because fish can't *express* pain? It's a bit like that. They can't see the emotion so they don't realise it's there. Not everybody thinks that of course, but that's part of the reason. And being unable to easily read emotions in *other* people, if they don't realise, can come off like you know the emotions are there but just don't care at all. It's a clusterfuck to be honest and there should be better representation and education.
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Jul 30, 2022 20:32
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Also many autistic people (including me, especially when I was young) can struggle with self-reflection and the ability to recognize their own emotions and know what they're feeling.
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Jul 30, 2022 20:51
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for fucks sake posted:There is, it's called MDMA. Not something you can use every day though, to put it mildly. the adhd thread talks about using guanfacine and other drugs for this fwiw, i haven't tried it but it seems to help some people
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Jul 30, 2022 22:09
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serious question, how many times do you re-read your posts, delete, edit, preview reply, scrap it, redo it, rethink it, feel weird, and then ask another question like this one? also hi, I tick a lot of the boxes over here and have had several people (both positively-and-compassionately and derisively-but-not-dishonestly) suggest I was on the spectrum and boy howdy is a lot of this thread sounding familiar.
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Jul 31, 2022 02:44
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Iridium posted:serious question, how many times do you re-read your posts, delete, edit, preview reply, scrap it, redo it, rethink it, feel weird, and then ask another question like this one? if you read further up on this page there's a whole discussion about this lol the answer is a lot
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Jul 31, 2022 02:52
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