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I can see RU claiming that the deals were seperate and it had no obligation to secure any routes but its own almost instantly if it actual hit the port proper. otherwise its probably part of the weird what are you going to do about it powerplay. what im saying is escort every grain ship with a US destroyer. after all, what are they going to do about it?
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Jul 23, 2022 20:34
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Nenonen posted:You are talking about moral responsibility. But this was a question of contractual responsibility - Germany as a NATO member has promised to participate in the defense of all other member nations. Ukraine is not a member, therefore Germany has no responsibility to defend her or to help her. Yet Germany has helped. It's plain wrong to mix those two matters up. Germany has an obligation to prevent genocide, just like any other member of the United Nations. For historical reasons, one would expect Germany to honor this, quite legal, responsibility to the fullest possible extent. Now, I realize that this obligation does not necessarily predicate an armed intervention and that the very same history I just mentioned makes it very fair that Germany has a complicated view of military aid and intervention. But when it comes to international law - this is a very real obligation. There are other obligations than article five. The fact that numerous countries are shirking such obligations, in lieu of this war and past ones, does not void the responsibility of Germany. I'm happy that Germany is helping, and I'm generally in the camp that considers much of the shade thrown at Germany in that regard hyperbolic and unreasonable. Nevertheless, Germany does have a legal responsibility to help. As does the rest of the UN. It is a travesty that this is not happening, and I'm deeply saddened that the world, including the west, has not reacted more strongly in defense of Ukraine. But the nuclear deterrent has prevented the proper response. The rest of my thoughts on our responsibilities I'll have to keep to myself because it is very much clancychat.
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Jul 23, 2022 20:38
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I feel like people would dunk on Germany less if they didn't do stuff like voice how totally they are in support of Ukraine and are helping them while constantly taking actions that hurt Ukraine for the German leadership's selfish desires. Who cares about moral vs contractual, it's still going to make people shout at you for being lovely. Saying that it's fine for them to piss on a country that the EU has been wooing for the past decade just because it's convenient since they don't have a contract with them really doesn't make Germany look better. This is why I talk about constant own-goals on the part of the German leadership.
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Jul 23, 2022 20:43
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Kchama posted:I feel like people would dunk on Germany less if they didn't do stuff like voice how totally they are in support of Ukraine and are helping them while constantly taking actions that hurt Ukraine for the German leadership's selfish desires. Who cares about moral vs contractual, it's still going to make people shout at you for being lovely. Also, it's obviously in Germany's own strategic interest to be in full emergency mode as far as finding new energy supplies goes, but then you get poo poo like the nuke plants still being shut down (and coal plants being kept on lol), and it's hard not to think that there's a significant portion of the German government and business elite that are just hoping things go back to the way they were, and that might mean they're willing to sell out the Ukrainians if the Russians offer a good enough deal.
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Jul 23, 2022 20:53
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The most hilarious part is that germans expect Putin to honor whatever soul-selling deal they think to make while he is on a roll breaking them left and right
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Jul 23, 2022 21:05
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Antigravitas posted:Lmao, this is some pathetic poo poo. People fall for this? You use nuclear for baseload. The amount of adjustable you need is demand - baseload - intermittent. So when intermittent is not enough to serve demand, increasing baseload capacity reduces demand for peakers. What exactly is so hard about this? The reason building just lots of nuclear isn't a good solution for replacing peakers is that nuclear is very capital intensive, while gas peaker plants have very low capital costs (and much higher running costs). So when you don't expect to need the plant all the time, nuclear makes absolutely no economic sense. But in this case, the plants already loving exist.
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Jul 23, 2022 22:55
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Antigravitas posted:The idea that you could replace gas peaker plants with nuclear is utterly asinine. If it were useful, France would have done so. France does this all the time. Load-following is very normal. Maybe stop reflexively defending the greenwashing party in the least science-based way possible? The threads you tried to dismiss are packed with links to news and industry sources that support the conclusions. Wildly lashing out against anyone criticizing Scholz is not persuasive. Kaal fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jul 24, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 23:59
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I'm pretty certain the issue has little to do with electricity, and more to do with the fact that gas is used in industrial processes in such a way that reactivating nuclear power plants does nothing to solve.
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Jul 24, 2022 00:07
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Kchama posted:I'm pretty certain the issue has little to do with electricity, and more to do with the fact that gas is used in industrial processes in such a way that reactivating nuclear power plants does nothing to solve. It’s this. I’ll give some days for conversations surrounding German energy policy to improve or peter out, but at the current rate I’m deliberating making that the next line item on the list of topics of where the thread has exhausted itself. Probably restricting it to nuclear energetics in Germany, but I have time to decided on that.
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Jul 24, 2022 00:10
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Kchama posted:I'm pretty certain the issue has little to do with electricity, and more to do with the fact that gas is used in industrial processes in such a way that reactivating nuclear power plants does nothing to solve. Germany uses plenty of Russian gas to produce electricity. Replacing that gas with nuclear power would reduce the need for Russian gas by an estimated 25%.
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Jul 24, 2022 00:12
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Kchama posted:I'm pretty certain the issue has little to do with electricity, and more to do with the fact that gas is used in industrial processes in such a way that reactivating nuclear power plants does nothing to solve. Out of curiosity, do you know what percentage of German natural gas use goes to industrial processes? I tried to find a number and came up empty.
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Jul 24, 2022 00:37
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OK, there are industrial applications. Got it. I don't think even the most wild eyed crazy haired optimistic projections are saying nuclear will cut oil to zero and is the most perfectest solution that everyone should hug and kiss on the mouth. Oil will still be needed. Got it. Nuclear is one tool in the box that can make a difference, and that tool is being purposefully and specifically dismantled and thrown out. That sucks and is dumb. THAT is worth getting worked up about, so maybe engage with that point instead of the other one?
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Jul 24, 2022 00:46
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Kaal posted:Germany uses plenty of Russian gas to produce electricity. Replacing that gas with nuclear power would reduce the need for Russian gas by an estimated 25%. Replacing that gas isn’t a major problem. The current problems of Germany that have difficult solutions are: 1) Replacing gas that is used in manufacturing as a chemical reagent 2) Replacing gas that is burnt in furnaces to produce residential or industrial heating Historically, there’s a fair amount of spare electrical capacity in the EU, and Germany is one of the largest net exporters of electricity in the union. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_and_heat_statistics#Import_and_export_of_electricity If you look at Germany’s gross electrical power mix, only 15% of electricity came from natural gas last year. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterprises/Energy/Production/Tables/gross-electricity-production.html cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jul 24, 2022 |
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Jul 24, 2022 01:01
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bird food bathtub posted:OK, there are industrial applications. It has nothing to do with the gas (not oil) issue, though. That's the problem. Restarting the nuclear reactors will do very little to fix it, so it's not really a relevant thing to bang on about endlessly in this thread. The real issue is that Germany chose to import from Russia because it was cheap, when there was no need to go out of the EU. Also Cinci basically answered all the other questions.
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Jul 24, 2022 01:10
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Replacing that gas isn’t a major problem. The current problems of Germany that have difficult solutions are: As has been discussed several times before in this thread and elsewhere, this is just a commitment to burning coal, gas, and wood. Obviously if you burn enough coal, gas, and wood, you can power through anything. No one is contesting that. That violates EU climate requirements, which is why Scholz and Habeck are being hammered on it this week when it came out that they had been misrepresenting the technocrats. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-22/scholz-opens-door-for-extending-nuclear-power-in-germany (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 24, 2022 01:24
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Chalks posted:What the hell is even happening here? Is Putin trying to humiliate Erdogan? Intentionally aggravating the west? Ever seen “Mars Attacks!”? I wonder if they’re going for a similar diplomatic technique. Ynglaur posted:If the US were attacked, would they contribute to our defense? Poland would. Italy would. Heck, Estonia would. there was a time when that soundbite was the entirety of my knowledge of modern Polish statesmanship
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Jul 24, 2022 01:38
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bird food bathtub posted:OK, there are industrial applications. Sure, but that’s irrelevant for this thread. Agronox posted:Out of curiosity, do you know what percentage of German natural gas use goes to industrial processes? I tried to find a number and came up empty. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterprises/Energy/Use/Tables/liquefied-gas.html https://www-genesis.destatis.de/genesis/online?language=en&sequenz=tabelleErgebnis&selectionname=43341-0001#abreadcrumb Going by these two, the majority.
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Jul 24, 2022 01:39
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Sure, but that’s irrelevant for this thread. If you're going off top plate numbers like that, then you'll want to remember that most of this is turning into CHP electricity, not fertilizer. A lot of that could be run off coal or any energy source, just like cars don't actually require gasoline so much as that is the norm.
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Jul 24, 2022 01:43
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Kaal posted:As has been discussed several times before in this thread and elsewhere, this is just a commitment to burning coal, gas, and wood. Obviously if you burn enough coal, gas, and wood, you can power through anything. No one is contesting that. That violates EU climate requirements, which is why Scholz and Habeck are being hammered on it this week when it came out that they had been misrepresenting the technocrats. Kaal posted:If you're going off top plate numbers like that, then you'll want to remember that most of this is turning into CHP electricity, not fertilizer. A lot of that could be run off coal or any energy source, just like cars don't actually require gasoline so much as that is the norm. Don't post about German energetics any more in this thread like that. Edit: To avoid ambiguity, I’m taking an issue with lack of sources in your posts and the inexplicable pivot to “well akshualli Scholz bad” when the topic is “which parts of German gas energy ecosystem are difficult-to-impossible to replace on a short notice”. Yes, his administration can still make bad choices and promulgate the use of natural gas, or gaslight the lawmakers about status of the nuclear fuel availability - but that has neither something to do with the conversation we tried to have, nor with this thread. D&D energy thread is a much better fit for expressing general frustration with German energy industry. As far as this thread is concerned, the only relevant parts of it right now is 1) how much money Russia makes through Germany on energy exports 2) how the upcoming winter energy crunch will propagate into popular and governmental opinion on support of the sanctions regime against Russia. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jul 24, 2022 |
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Jul 24, 2022 01:49
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Head of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, Kirill Budanov "I support Moldova’s desire to get rid of the occupying troops on their territory. We, as a state and as a special service, will do everything to help the Moldovan state get rid of the invaders on its land" https://odessa-journal.com/budanov-announced-ukraines-readiness-to-help-moldova-expel-russian-occupiers-from-transnistria/
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Jul 24, 2022 01:54
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A buddy and I were drinking at a bar when we got into a long conversation about him going on a Birthright tour of Israel. Seemed like a great opportunity for him, and I said as much. I go to hang a piss when he siddles up to the other urinal. A beer and a dart go together like a piss and a fart, so I did. "What is it with Germans and gas. Like, what the gently caress, dude?!" Now y'all feel as bad as I do after listening to DE gas-chat.
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Jul 24, 2022 01:58
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:That is an absolutely different kind of person. A person who may be turned into an orc like human from industrial warfare.
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Jul 24, 2022 02:19
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IronicDongz posted:the sort of rhetoric where people call russian soldiers 'orcs' is loving weird, fwiw This isn't localized to Russia. Wars like this turn people into orcs. Watching your entire class get annihilated in the Somme will make you an anthropoid. Orc is just the closest example that I have heard. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 24, 2022 02:43
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Soldiers are still human beings and dehumanizing them does no one any favors.
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Jul 24, 2022 02:56
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:This isn't localized to Russia. Wars like this turn people into orcs. Watching your entire class get annihilated in the Somme will make you an anthropoid. Orc is just the closest example that I have heard. Stop justifying slurs.
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Jul 24, 2022 02:57
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Another dawn is breaking in Kyiv, and it's still Ukrainian.   
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Jul 24, 2022 03:32
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1551043081532743680 ...and here...we...go! Time to gut check the russian morale. Will they defend/fight as hard as the Ukrainians? Edit: Guess who's the first who wants to jump ship? Actually, you probably guessed right: https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1550929994980933632 OAquinas fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jul 24, 2022 |
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Jul 24, 2022 04:18
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IronicDongz posted:the sort of rhetoric where people call russian soldiers 'orcs' is loving weird, fwiw Won’t someone spare a thought for the literal marauders and pillagers from Mordor
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Jul 24, 2022 04:32
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IronicDongz posted:the sort of rhetoric where people call russian soldiers 'orcs' is loving weird, fwiw it's much more something russians use to self-refer than anything else
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Jul 24, 2022 04:37
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Herstory Begins Now posted:it's much more something russians use to self-refer than anything else No, it's not. Non-Russians are not calling Russians 'orcs' out of respect for what Russians want to be called. It's just racism.
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Jul 24, 2022 05:18
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Kchama posted:No, it's not. Non-Russians are not calling Russians 'orcs' out of respect for what Russians want to be called. It's just racism. Well, any Russians who supports the war should be dragged from their houses and executed. Unfortunately many must die until they figure out a government that doesn't commit genocide. Calling them orcs is irrelevant. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 24, 2022 05:32
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Tsyni posted:Well, any Russians who supports the war should be dragged from their houses and executed. Buddy...
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Jul 24, 2022 05:35
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Kchama posted:No, it's not. Non-Russians are not calling Russians 'orcs' out of respect for what Russians want to be called. It's just racism. Racism against who? ‘Russki’? Orcs are the army, do you think Ukrainians care if someone is Bashkir or Ingush or ‘Russian’ (I assume you mean people from St. Petersburg or Moscow?) I assure you they just care if you have 3 stolen Rokus and Z is on your BMP, those are Orcs. Has it spread to supporters who have a Z on their Lada? Yes. Can you be racist against Putin Stans? Asking the real questions here
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Jul 24, 2022 06:15
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Kchama posted:No, it's not. Non-Russians are not calling Russians 'orcs' out of respect for what Russians want to be called. It's just racism. it's absolutely a thing among russians dude and has been for like 20 years
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Jul 24, 2022 06:29
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Herstory Begins Now posted:it's absolutely a thing among russians dude and has been for like 20 years I think Americans should be sensitive to the fact that a group calling themselves a certain slur doesn't make it ok for anyone outside of that group calling them that.
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Jul 24, 2022 06:36
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And at once bilbo baggins came across the russians (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 24, 2022 06:40
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its not racist, its just cringe imo.
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Jul 24, 2022 06:40
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BabyFur Denny posted:I think Americans should be sensitive to the fact that a group calling themselves a certain slur doesn't make it ok for anyone outside of that group calling them that. who tf is even calling them orcs that you're referring to. And it's merely stupid, it's not a slur.
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Jul 24, 2022 06:48
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Describing an ongoing high-intensity war in the terms of a popular fantasy novel suggests to me that the war is about as real or grave to the speaker as a fantasy novel. Separately from that, you can definitely be racist towards a freshly invented or perceived category; this is the typical way it occurs to my understanding. It's not really the hill I prefer to die on but there's a million ways to express disgust for the grand Russian imperial project that don't imply anything inherent to its people, who are as innately capable of monstrous acts as you or I.
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Jul 24, 2022 06:50
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Yeah there's only one thread on these forums where it is a regularly used term and it isn't this one, the gbs one, or the vfw one. If someone has issues with the term, take it up with the thread actually using it regularly On the note of the term being used fondly by Russians, this dude wrote a good series of posts examining it's use in Russian media and culture. tldr is that it's used aspirationally to embrace the roll of being the bad guys https://www.eliotborenstein.net/soviet-self-hatred/njmrdivc10ffjo8rdx1asvwg8z8ftv Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Jul 24, 2022 |
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Jul 24, 2022 06:54
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