|
Zulily Zoetrope posted:Does it? Like Dimitri keeps saying that that's the case, but everyone from party members to random camp guests keep chiming in how cool they are with broad sweeping changes on the other routes. "The people who have issues with it" probably aren't going to be part of the king's immediate hand-picked war gang, no; doubly so if they were already in favor of his dad's attempts at being progressive The people who would be a problem are generally the people you're actively fighting in AG because they rebelled against the most milquetoast changes for the 3rd time this year (but you can't Just Replace Them because that would be Too Disruptive) tldr galagazombie posted:Dimitri should honestly just sell Edelgard western Fargeus for a huge sack of cash. They rebel and join the Empire on a biweekly basis anyhow, and are behind every block to reform and sinister conspiracy in the country. They’re more trouble than they’re worth. Make them Edelgards problem.
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 01:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 02:03 |
|
|
Honestly by the end of 3 hopes all the troublesome abusive nobles who opposed Dimitris dads Sweeping changes were revealed as having ties to slitherers and thoroughly purged. And with the exception of Lonato's house, which was gonna pass to Ashe who he knows is loyal, he openly states those traitor houses will be dismantled and their lands claimed by the crown (at least for now, with some implication thst he might offer some to mercedes for her contributions, or other loyal non land having people). He could totally do wider Sweeping changes post war. Especially if they end up keeping any of the Empire land. Ingrid has a single camp convo where she's like 'this land makes even the most fertile of Faerghus looks barren... if we could... no, I shouldn't be envious and say something like that',, since his secondary concern was 'how do I do reforms when I can't ensure my people are even fed'. Of course, all the endings are very non-final and we have nothing but guesses of what could come next.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 03:03
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:Honestly by the end of 3 hopes all the troublesome abusive nobles who opposed Dimitris dads Sweeping changes were revealed as having ties to slitherers and thoroughly purged. And with the exception of Lonato's house, which was gonna pass to Ashe who he knows is loyal, he openly states those traitor houses will be dismantled and their lands claimed by the crown (at least for now, with some implication thst he might offer some to mercedes for her contributions, or other loyal non land having people). he could! but he wont
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 03:27
|
|
|
The irony is that any changes Dimitri makes to society still have Edelgard to thank, since without her war giving him the excuse to purge anyone who isn't loyal to him he'd never be able to do anything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 03:33
|
|
|
Alacron posted:The irony is that any changes Dimitri makes to society still have Edelgard to thank, since without her war giving him the excuse to purge anyone who isn't loyal to him he'd never be able to do anything. I mean maybe, maybe not? If Edelgard never declares war who knows if the western lords decide to get uppity again anyway, particularly given the slithers are the ones pushing them to action. It's entirely possible even absent a war Cornelia would have tried to orchestrate a coup and pushed Dimitri into full boar-mode kill every last one of 'em.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 03:50
|
|
|
I mean fundamentally it's pointless to argue about what could have happened because at that point we're basically debating our headcanons and fanfictions. Which, I mean, if you want to do that that's ok. But It's not exactly riveting debate.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 03:52
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:I mean fundamentally it's pointless to argue about what could have happened because at that point we're basically debating our headcanons and fanfictions. You're just jealous you didn't come up with the idea of Rhea fighting the Shuffle Alliance.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 05:42
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:I mean fundamentally it's pointless to argue about what could have happened because at that point we're basically debating our headcanons and fanfictions. I feel like that’s just part of the Three Houses/Three Hopes experience.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 07:08
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:I mean fundamentally it's pointless to argue about what could have happened because at that point we're basically debating our headcanons and fanfictions. congratulations you are now the source of the title of a second fire emblem thread (i think)
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 08:09
|
|
|
I don’t think there’s anything in the game to suggest Dimitri would ever move past “gee golly wilikers I don’t want to upset the conservative factions” without a position of immense strength. In fact, quite the opposite.
Clawtopsy fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Jul 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 08:36
|
|
|
GW spoilers: I still feel like a massive rear end in a top hat killing Flèche.Clawtopsy posted:I don’t think there’s anything in the game to suggest Dimitri would ever move past “gee golly wilikers I don’t want to upset the conservative factions” without a position of immense strength. In fact, quite the opposite. I think one of Dimitri’s main flaws is his fear of rocking the boat and trying his best to keep the peace/keep the status quo (minus the whole feral boar phase). He doesn’t take up the crown when the Kingdom is clamouring him to as Rufus is doing a poo poo job but he didn’t want to because he thought it would split the Kingdom, which inevitably ends up happening anyways sooner or later. It’s possible the death of Lambert and the Tragedy of Duscur made him cautious to a fault and afraid of changing the status quo, even if he recognises the fact that the system is immensely hosed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 09:11
|
|
|
Clawtopsy posted:I don’t think there’s anything in the game to suggest Dimitri would ever move past “gee golly wilikers I don’t want to upset the conservative factions” without a position of immense strength. In fact, quite the opposite. I mean, there's the fact that he's actively working with Sylvain to try to revamp the military to be less reliant on crests (which, tbf, is Sylvain's idea). Also the fact that he is putting his full authority as king behind House Gautier's new approach of trying to ally with Sreng (also Sylvain's idea, kid has good ideas) Yuri inspires him to start public education reforms, and he ends their support putting together a system of universal basic income for children, so they can afford to go to school and not help on farms/in shops/etc. Though yeah, he says this will have to be delayed until the war stops draining their coffers. He's literally removed the conservative faction against him from power, and openly decides to end their houses and change where their lands will go (for now to the crown, later to those loyal to him who helped in the war, implied to be Mercedes as one of them.) He's already by the 2 year mark reformed the idea of knighthood and nobility so that commoners with talent have upward movement into his knights, including ones that (according to Ashe) never fight, but instead act as stewards and teachers and etc, with the title of 'knight' just being his way to justify the fact that a majority of his advisors are common born. The Petra/Dedue support (and other Dedue supports) reveal that he already has the plan in motion in a way it can't be stopped, to make Duscar an independent nation. In his Mercedes support he notes that much of what the church does to garner such love in the Kingdom (orphanages, homeless shelters, offering training for those displaced by war or famine) are things that the Kingdom should be providing instead. This comes along with him calling out in his other supports that the Church is a poisoned chalice, that he has to sip from in moderation, and hopefully one day he will be able to remove some of their power over Faerghus. Which is again, just him saying 'i'm gonna slowly change things', so less drastic than some of the above. The above is part of why he wants Garreg Mach retaken so bad in AG: he wants the church out of his territory, because they're gaining even more influence over his nation, and he doesn't trust that. He wants them to pack up and go home, not have the Archbishop wandering the capital streets healing the poor and making speeches about what she wants changed. I don't think there's anything in the game to suggest he wont make changes. It's just that most of them come from other people providing him good ideas and him going 'this is a great idea, you will be my advisor on this matter going forward, we will go towards the future together.' As opposed to Claude and Edelgard who have their own very distinct visions of everything that needs to change, and are putting in the blood to make that change this instant. Dimitri is not an ideas guy. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Jul 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 09:36
|
|
|
i mean, there's a reason nobody calls him brightitri
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 10:01
|
|
|
One of the more fascinating lines of throwaway dialogue is if you take Dimitri out on an expedition, he can talk about how Rhea taught him about crop rotation to bolster the long-term fertility of the Kingdom's agriculture. We hear a lot about how the Kingdom is kind of a shithole without lots of fertile land and one of the first things Dimitri says to Rhea when taking her in is "hey we just so we're straight I not only can't afford to pay your knights, I'm barely going to be able to feed them" so at first glance this seems great! But then you realize Rhea had this knowledge the whole time but withheld it from the nation that a) needs it the most, and b) is the most tied to the Central Church, so she could keep them reliant on the Church's charity. She only gave the knowledge out once the Kingdom's low crop yields directly became her problem.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 18:57
|
|
|
lmao I missed that That's definitely exactly how they wanted you to read it, too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 23:53
|
|
|
Sydin posted:One of the more fascinating lines of throwaway dialogue is if you take Dimitri out on an expedition, he can talk about how Rhea taught him about crop rotation to bolster the long-term fertility of the Kingdom's agriculture. We hear a lot about how the Kingdom is kind of a shithole without lots of fertile land and one of the first things Dimitri says to Rhea when taking her in is "hey we just so we're straight I not only can't afford to pay your knights, I'm barely going to be able to feed them" so at first glance this seems great! But then you realize Rhea had this knowledge the whole time but withheld it from the nation that a) needs it the most, and b) is the most tied to the Central Church, so she could keep them reliant on the Church's charity. She only gave the knowledge out once the Kingdom's low crop yields directly became her problem. That is lowkey one of the most hosed up things I have heard about Rhea.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 23:54
|
|
|
Rhea: literally starving the population of Fodlan into obedience for 1000 years. I guess this lines up with the Leonie Claude support back in Houses, and Rhea’s “ban mundane medicine so the Church has a healthcare monopoly”+”ban the tools of mass literacy to keep peasants illiterate” but wow. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jul 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 03:21
|
|
|
Shinji117 posted:Rhea: literally starving the population of Fodlan into obedience for 1000 years. Rhea has always been incredibly callous and evil, she's just callous and evil in a distant and disconnected way instead of the direct and in your face "laughing like a disney villain while trying to murder you/your friends with nukes" way like the Agarthans. Claude's insistence that Rhea needs to be killed is probably the only real way ahead for Fodlan, because even if Rhea would agree to surrender and make nice with Edelgard, there's no guarantee that she will continue making nice instead of worming her way back into power after Edelgard and her reformist followers are dead from old age.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 03:25
|
|
|
Kanos posted:Rhea has always been incredibly callous and evil, she's just callous and evil in a distant and disconnected way instead of the direct and in your face "laughing like a disney villain while trying to murder you/your friends with nukes" way like the Agarthans. Fortunately for Edelgard here, I doubt this is a universe where Rhea surrenders to her. It isn't brought up enough in SB (because Rhea is barely in the drat thing which is a tragedy) but because she's a Hresvelg this is incredibly personal for Rhea and to the death.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 04:29
|
|
|
Kanos posted:Rhea has always been incredibly callous and evil, she's just callous and evil in a distant and disconnected way instead of the direct and in your face "laughing like a disney villain while trying to murder you/your friends with nukes" way like the Agarthans. I think that ascribes more intent to Rhea than is entirely fair. Rhea seems less like she hates reform than that she thinks of stasis as the way to keep things good enough until mommy comes back and fixes everything. If Rhea could be convinced to stand down, and the reforms presented as Fait Accompli, then I don't think she'd have the drive to remove them. They'd just be another Thing For Mom To Deal With, for good or ill. The problem, of course, would be getting her to stand down in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 05:00
|
|
|
Metis of the Hallways posted:congratulations you are now the source of the title of a second fire emblem thread I take pride in my accomplishments.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 06:08
|
|
|
Kanos posted:worming her way back into power after Edelgard and her reformist followers are dead from old age. For Edelgard, this is like ~10 years or so(unless you get one of the endings where Lindhart/Hanneman/Lysithea manage to fix things for her). IMO, that's the main reason for the war. She doesn't have the time to try anything slower. She has to smash the system as fast as she can, and she has to do it so thoroughly that nobody will be able to put the pieces of it back together after she's gone. She goes to war because she has no choice, and she accepts the collateral damage from it as the cost of doing business because she doesn't have any other options. This is also the cause of Claude's pacing, really, because Claude's using Edelgard's war as the lever to force his changes. He becomes the king of the new Federation because the war has made it clear that they need leadership that's more responsive than the round table, and once he comes to terms with the Empire he uses that treaty as a means to take down the Church. Claude's moving fast here because Edelgard is setting the tempo. Dimitri, on the other hand, has both the time to make changes slowly and a very memorable example of what can happen when an attempt to change things fails. It makes sense that he'd take a slower pace, because he's witnessed the price of failure and he has the time to spare to be careful.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 07:02
|
|
|
Khizan posted:For Edelgard, this is like ~10 years or so(unless you get one of the endings where Lindhart/Hanneman/Lysithea manage to fix things for her). IMO, that's the main reason for the war. She doesn't have the time to try anything slower. She has to smash the system as fast as she can, and she has to do it so thoroughly that nobody will be able to put the pieces of it back together after she's gone. She goes to war because she has no choice, and she accepts the collateral damage from it as the cost of doing business because she doesn't have any other options. The endings mostly don't mention her dying young, so I think it's more a theoretical time limit than a practical one. Lysithea was the prototype. Edelgard is the finished product, with less in the way of side effects.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 09:19
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:I think that ascribes more intent to Rhea than is entirely fair. Rhea seems less like she hates reform than that she thinks of stasis as the way to keep things good enough until mommy comes back and fixes everything. If Rhea could be convinced to stand down, and the reforms presented as Fait Accompli, then I don't think she'd have the drive to remove them. They'd just be another Thing For Mom To Deal With, for good or ill. Rhea is absolutely acting with intent. She has spent a millenium deliberately maintaining Fodlan in a state of stasis for her own purposes. It seems pretty implausible that her response to that stasis being forcibly shattered and her being forced from power at the point of a sword would be "ahh, gottem, ggs, you have bested me", especially if mom hasn't come back yet. I'm pretty sure the only things that would stop Rhea from being the continent's biggest control freak are either being killed or having Sothis physically show up and say "hey, cut it out, dear".
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 09:59
|
|
|
quote:or having Sothis physically show up and say "hey, cut it out, dear". Even that might not do it, especially if she showed up as tiny. She has a certain image in her head, and if the reality didn't fit, she's as likely to destroy it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 12:36
|
|
|
important lore: byleth - has a good eye shez - has an eye for quality, friend
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 14:15
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:The endings mostly don't mention her dying young, so I think it's more a theoretical time limit than a practical one. Lysithea was the prototype. Edelgard is the finished product, with less in the way of side effects. Edelgard mentions it explicitly, but unlike Lysithea she always has Hanneman and Hubert on her side and in the know, and yes, probably has fewer side effects than Lysithea. I think it's fair to assume she finds a way. Probably one she shares with Lysithea in Golden Wildfire, given the alliance and that she tells Claude what's up with the slitherers. Bloodly posted:Even that might not do it, especially if she showed up as tiny. She has a certain image in her head, and if the reality didn't fit, she's as likely to destroy it. In Houses, she cedes Fódlan to Byleth if you're on a pro-Rhea route. Plus if you get her S-rank, she mentions that Sothis shows up and spoke to her and told her she hosed everything up, and that it totally made her change her ways and she becomes your co-ruler who doesn't suck, supposedly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 15:15
|
|
|
Very important question, does Hilda still chant her own name in battle at any point because that was excellent in Three Houses. I love the wink she does after her warrior special, but still a good "Hilda! Hilda! Hilda!" chant would be nice.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 19:50
|
|
|
Epi Lepi posted:Very important question, does Hilda still chant her own name in battle at any point because that was excellent in Three Houses. I love the wink she does after her warrior special, but still a good "Hilda! Hilda! Hilda!" chant would be nice. I haven't heard it yet and it is 100% the worst thing about the game, absolutely. I'm holding out hope that it will happen eventually, though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 19:54
|
|
|
Epi Lepi posted:Very important question, does Hilda still chant her own name in battle at any point because that was excellent in Three Houses. I love the wink she does after her warrior special, but still a good "Hilda! Hilda! Hilda!" chant would be nice. It has not happened yet in my Golden Deer run and it is, so far, the worst thing about this game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 19:57
|
|
|
Epi Lepi posted:Very important question, does Hilda still chant her own name in battle at any point because that was excellent in Three Houses. I love the wink she does after her warrior special, but still a good "Hilda! Hilda! Hilda!" chant would be nice. Hilda has some of the worst combat barks in game sadly. Using her is just constantly hearing Bwagh over and over again. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 20:07
|
|
|
Terrible news. I will say I wish there were a few choices for lines when you assign someone to attack. In my AG run Ashe saying "I'm a little nervous about this" every single time I told him to attack something started to drive me nuts, and now even early in GW I'm tiring of hearing Hilda say "slack off."
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 20:45
|
|
|
I heard Ignatz say "let me paint you a picture!" for his non-unique warrior special, and Byleth said "allow me to demonstrate" in a cutscene, those are the only two recurring quotes I remember from three houses well, those and "I am Ferdinand von Aegir!"
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 20:53
|
|
|
My one big complaint with the voice acting is that they really should have introduced the term "Agarthan" into the dialogue somehow. 'Those who slither in the dark' is just a really clunky phrase, it was ignorable in Houses where they were a lot more backgrounded but it gets really old in Hopes when they get brought up every ten minutes.Kanos posted:Rhea is absolutely acting with intent. She has spent a millenium deliberately maintaining Fodlan in a state of stasis for her own purposes. It seems pretty implausible that her response to that stasis being forcibly shattered and her being forced from power at the point of a sword would be "ahh, gottem, ggs, you have bested me", especially if mom hasn't come back yet. To be somewhat fair, the last time technology advanced out of her control it ended up with almost her entire species getting butchered and their still-living remains fashioned into weapons intended to be used to kill off those who remained. It is absolutely a hosed up and evil thing to do but you can sort of see how she came to her conclusions.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 21:08
|
|
|
Epi Lepi posted:Terrible news. I will say I wish there were a few choices for lines when you assign someone to attack. In my AG run Ashe saying "I'm a little nervous about this" every single time I told him to attack something started to drive me nuts, and now even early in GW I'm tiring of hearing Hilda say "slack off." "A TASTE MORE BITTER THAN THE BLACKEST COFFEE"
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 21:13
|
|
|
Sorry if this has been discussed earlier but I'm trying to stay out of the thread because of spoilers. Do the different routes use different maps or is it the same maps + battles but playing the other side?
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 21:44
|
|
|
Pierson posted:Sorry if this has been discussed earlier but I'm trying to stay out of the thread because of spoilers. Do the different routes use different maps or is it the same maps + battles but playing the other side? Different order but most of the routes hit the same maps eventually. There are a handful of unique ones however.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 21:45
|
|
|
finished Azure Gleam last night. it's uhhhh certainly a route! my second one after scarlet blaze felix was probably the most improved lion in my opinion, letting him have responsibilities and things helped quite a bit. (petra is most improved eagle, hapi is most improved anybody) gonna run through golden wildfire then put the game down and wait to see if DLC comes along as i know each route has two branches, so if it does the houses thing of "there's an extra story but also a bunch of poo poo added to regular playthroughs" then i figure i can do the alternate branch for each house with DLC perks
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 22:32
|
|
|
Gonna ask and I understand that it's probably not popular opinion but are Lions/Deer stories more interesting? I took a break from SB and I'm pretty sure I'm near the end and while I think the games good dumb fun I'm starting to feel kinda winded. This has been up to where I am the most *nothing* story I've ever seen. Chapters of 'we need to save this random dude' who is never really mentioned again, then it just feels like absolutely nothing has happened. Ferdie just killed his dad and I can barely care because like... I'm just not invested in that angle all that much. Combined with that is the fact the game has just dropped all attempts to really fight back. Balthus for some reason has like 80 ATK so he just does a normal punch and everything dies, my MC unit just starts cutting until everything is dead with her unique class and Lystenthia/Edlegard feel equally unstoppable to the point most missions are now just 'hey go do a thing' I know the older games were literal talking heads but it really doesn't help that the cutscenes feel like they drag on forever and it's just the gang standing in a field expositioning at each other. I find my attention drifting to discord or twitter just because the routes refusing to at least make the story interesting. Just man I wanna love the game and get wrapped up in a fun narrative but the characters feel so flat and they aren't doing anything it's hard to really invest in them. I finished all 3 routes of Three Houses and while I felt burnout at the finish line, I'm feeling it a lot faster here 
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 22:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 02:03 |
|
|
kvx687 posted:To be somewhat fair, the last time technology advanced out of her control it ended up with almost her entire species getting butchered and their still-living remains fashioned into weapons intended to be used to kill off those who remained. It is absolutely a hosed up and evil thing to do but you can sort of see how she came to her conclusions. But that isn't what happened. She and her people came to the planet and drove the people underground with all that fancy technology and then her people ruled so badly that people hailed Nemesis as a hero for fighting back.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 22:53
|
|