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Vagabong posted:homogenising factions can eliminate certain styles of play or challenges that some players might find interesting
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Jul 25, 2022 21:21
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Yeah, I never really noticed an issue personally and enjoyed playing Slaanesh, sorry to all who didn't 
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Jul 25, 2022 21:29
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I wish replenishment prioritized very damaged units. Your whole army taking 50% damage should require more replenishment than one of your dudes taking 90%. Especially since the latter case means you can't auto resolve a single unit of gnoblars without losing that unit.
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Jul 25, 2022 21:38
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 hooting, hollering
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Jul 25, 2022 21:49
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Anno posted:3K units only recruited that quickly if you didn’t move, right? Like moving your army would break the big mustering replenishment buff. Isn’t that just the same thing as taking two turns in a city? That is correct, mustering was a replenishment bonus that would de-active if you moved. but the game had a LOT of other ways to boost replenishment in the late game even without mustering. it worked nicely in the sense that early game that kind of low level strategic micro is important because you only have a few armies, but in the late game you have much more poo poo to keep track of so worrying about mustering would be rather fiddly.
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Jul 25, 2022 21:53
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Agean90 posted:once again 3 kingdoms solved this. Units were assigned to a lord, and when you recalled that lord the units would stick with him. This meant that you can quickly move sizable forces just by recalling and redeploying their assigned general. I really liked the that 3k system. For anyone who didn't play it, yeah the units were tied to the lord, and the type of units they could recruit was dependant on the general type (so, like you had a general that specialized in cav, infantry, artillery, ect that could get access to better quality units of a given type. For example only the strategist had access to artillery and the better ranged infantry, though said hero was lovely in combat, and they generally had bad melee infantry and no cavalry). A full army comprised of the general, 6 unit cards underneath said general, then 2 heroes that had 4 unit cards underneath each of them respectively, so a 'full' army was effectively 17 cards all said and done. If you reserved a hero their entire attachment leaves, and when you bring them out, as stated the entire unit comes with and musteres out in 3 turns. I would love for the system to make it in if they made a sequel in the 3k engine, and it would allow a lot more fluid ability to handle like Grimgors Immortulz and similar for any lord or hero that had a special retinue. Not to mention it would give you some interesting choices to make with army composition, and would make like the huntsmarshal campaign really interesting with dwarf and elf auxiliaries floating around under their respective heroes.
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Jul 25, 2022 22:03
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 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  Sigh. Always remember your back-up rats.
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Jul 25, 2022 22:06
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Doomykins posted:
Doomykins posted:hooting, hollering
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Jul 25, 2022 22:25
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Kill all rats
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Jul 25, 2022 22:37
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rats are a great snack, they have all those crunchy warpstone bits in the middle
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Jul 25, 2022 22:58
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Gort posted:Wouldn't that make ranged even more powerful? Ammo's free and replenishes 100% Also, dont sleep on flesh hounds of Khorne. They are basically faster, more fragile bloodcrushers but crucially only take 1 turn to recruit.
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Jul 25, 2022 23:20
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The orcs are eating my backup rats they'll rue this day. 
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Jul 25, 2022 23:34
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Doomykins posted:
Doomykins posted:
Lmao amazing
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Jul 25, 2022 23:49
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Gonna throw out that part of why I like Vampire Coast and to an extent Ogres so much is that you can much easily recruit new units from their ship/camp so it makes it way easier to just not care if you take some losses, along with raise dead. Not needing to do nothing for several turns while waiting for stuff to replenish/recruit is really nice. Really it's more that it's more fun to be doing something than not doing something, and spending turns not doing anything is boring. Actually thinking about it, it's part of why I like playing the Empire so much too, being able to grab Elector State troops to make up for casualties helps minimize how much time you spend recruiting and worrying about casualties.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:34
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DeathSandwich posted:I really liked the that 3k system. For anyone who didn't play it, yeah the units were tied to the lord, and the type of units they could recruit was dependant on the general type (so, like you had a general that specialized in cav, infantry, artillery, ect that could get access to better quality units of a given type. For example only the strategist had access to artillery and the better ranged infantry, though said hero was lovely in combat, and they generally had bad melee infantry and no cavalry). A full army comprised of the general, 6 unit cards underneath said general, then 2 heroes that had 4 unit cards underneath each of them respectively, so a 'full' army was effectively 17 cards all said and done. If you reserved a hero their entire attachment leaves, and when you bring them out, as stated the entire unit comes with and musteres out in 3 turns. Each general in an army could take 6 regiments, for a total of 18 regiments per stack as well as your 3 heroes. It was a pretty cool system, and your heroes even got combat bonus/malus depending on how much they liked the other heroes in the stack and how long they had served together.
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Jul 26, 2022 01:23
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How do I want to go about deploying my camps as the ogres, given that there’s a cap on how many I can have? It seems like quite an investment to lose if it becomes placed inconveniently.
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Jul 26, 2022 01:46
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Dr Christmas posted:How do I want to go about deploying my camps as the ogres, given that there’s a cap on how many I can have? It seems like quite an investment to lose if it becomes placed inconveniently. I usually place the first someplace relatively safe, it can defend itself but it'll be your primary source of recruitment buildings and you wanna make sure you don't lose it. After that I'll try and put them down in areas I plan on expanding either in the immediate future or if I've got spare capacity for them, putting one someplace that I plan on expanding in the far-off future. They're particularly handy in places with terrible climate to counter the penalty to replenishment. Edit: The Ogre economy, particularly if you're Greasus, is strong enough that it's not a big deal to disband a camp and build another one elsewhere, especially once you have the techs to start them with a good bit of population. If one isn't in a particularly useful location anymore just disband it and move it to where it'll be more helpful. ArchRanger fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 01:50
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ninjahedgehog posted:Each general in an army could take 6 regiments, for a total of 18 regiments per stack as well as your 3 heroes. It was a pretty cool system, and your heroes even got combat bonus/malus depending on how much they liked the other heroes in the stack and how long they had served together. Would work well for a Dogs of War army composed of different mercenary bands and their leaders
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Jul 26, 2022 02:47
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Grumio posted:Would work well for a Dogs of War army composed of different mercenary bands and their leaders Would work for everyone quite well and would even mimic tabeltop better what with unit leaders and the like. It's the one feature I really wanted them to take from 3K. I'm glad we got the better diplomacy, and various improvements and general engine updates, but god drat did 3Ks recruitment system and setup really kickass. Here's to hoping that Old World or 40k or Middle-Earth build off the 3K engine instead.
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Jul 26, 2022 03:27
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I cowarded out and played Katarina for my first campaign. Then stopped 10 turns in because I realized it's a new TWW game and I needed to go download the march stance turn 1 cost mod to keep the AI sack and run bullshit to a minimum.
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Jul 26, 2022 03:28
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I'd honestly like to see the game restructured so having to recover after big battles was more normalized(as in if you fight a 50% casualty battle that stack is out of it for a few turns to recover), but instead you're able to economically support more armies so you still have stuff to do while your main army is recruiting/replenishing. One of my main complaints about TWW is how you're basically pushed into fielding one or two main stacks until you're so stable you've effectively won the game because the kind of economy required to support multiple armies is also the kind of economy that makes the player close to invincible. This warps the game design in a couple of ways - replenishment is never "enough" unless it basically removes reasonable downtime for a stack, it's normal for factions with poor replenishment to constantly completely disband units and pop brand new ones out of the ether, generic lords are whatever because you want to use LLs to maximize the power of your few stacks, etc. Kanos fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 03:30
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Imagine if we had the 3K style but it was 1 lord 2 heroes. And you couldn't get a larger army until you got another hero. The start of the game would be incredibly fun. Also make it so heroes limit what type of troops you could recruit.
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Jul 26, 2022 03:34
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Third World Reagan posted:Imagine if we had the 3K style but it was 1 lord 2 heroes. IMO the generals should get recruitment for everything, and yeah, the heroes have limited pools based on what kind of hero they are. Imagine if like for greenskins, the black orc big boss was able to recruit more black orcs and boar boy biguns, but the goblin heroes got the doomdivers and arachnarocs. Built in army theming!
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Jul 26, 2022 03:50
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Make Tretch the only way in the game to get Warp Lightning Cannons
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Jul 26, 2022 04:00
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Kazzah posted:Make Tretch the only way in the game to get Warp Lightning Cannons
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Jul 26, 2022 04:01
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DeathSandwich posted:I cowarded out and played Katarina for my first campaign. It would be nice, honestly, if they got rid of the force march stance and gave you a boost to movement in home territory instead. It's very annoying playing whack a mole with enemy armies running around in force march avoiding my response armies which I cannot put into force march or else I can't actually fight the enemy. Even using the commandment that reduces enemy movement doesn't actually make them slower than your own armies.
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Jul 26, 2022 04:34
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OwlFancier posted:It would be nice, honestly, if they got rid of the force march stance and gave you a boost to movement in home territory instead. It's very annoying playing whack a mole with enemy armies running around in force march avoiding my response armies which I cannot put into force march or else I can't actually fight the enemy. I feel like I'm playing a completely different game to some of the rest of you - I don't think I've ever had a problem catching armies, esp with Kislev - they have a bunch of abilities that slow enemy armies on the map. The 'problem' I did have was that there were so many armies, coming from everywhere - but that is just Kislev and really helped the whole thematic 'bastion against chaos' thing. It did keep the game feeling really challenging even into the endgame which was nice (although locking down the mountain passes helped a lot)
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Jul 26, 2022 05:47
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DeathSandwich posted:I cowarded out and played Katarina for my first campaign. wtf, that mod exists???
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Jul 26, 2022 05:49
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Is there something that gives game 3 AI factions with a playable LL and advantage over those without? If there is, it feels like this doesn’t extend to previous games’ LLs in RoC, like Karl and Throt. I remember them saying that some of those advantages were removed during one of game 2’s patch notes. Sure enough, where once AI races participating in the Vortex race seemed to shrug off the Chaos armies and intervention armies from other racers, I began to notice them having their cities razed by Chaos and the rituals failed more often. I thought there might be some protections for certain armies that would be the objectives of some campaign, like those with Nagash’s books or pirates or special pirates in the Vampirate campaign. Then I’d see some fun counterexamples, like Wulfhart’s hunters die spontaneously, Throt being absorbed by Tretch while playing a Sisters of Twilight campaign, and Sarthoreal coming at me with less than half of an attrition-ravaged stack in my WoC campaign. I remember once seeing Teclis down to his last stronghold and then absorbing Tyrion’s map-spanning empire in an older ME game. If only that happened to Gelt had done that to Karl in my Norsca and WoC campaigns. People have surmised that there was a point before Warden and the Paunch where game 3 split from game 2. Are these systems still in place, or were they ever?
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Jul 26, 2022 06:08
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Alctel posted:I feel like I'm playing a completely different game to some of the rest of you - I don't think I've ever had a problem catching armies, esp with Kislev - they have a bunch of abilities that slow enemy armies on the map. I spent several turns chasing two daemon prince stacks around troll country because they were just playing keep away with my army. As far as I can tell they don't have a hero that can block movement and the reduction to enemy movement from the commandment as I said doesn't overcome the improvement from the enemy being in forced march. They would be slower if they weren't using that, but there's nothing stopping them from just going into forced march and keeping just ahead of your forces because you have almost identical move speeds at that point. I would be fine actually fighting the wankers but that is reliant on them actually trying to attack me instead of just running around the province trying to avoid me, or presumably making for a different village they want to attack instead. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 06:08
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Alctel posted:I feel like I'm playing a completely different game to some of the rest of you - I don't think I've ever had a problem catching armies, esp with Kislev - they have a bunch of abilities that slow enemy armies on the map. Between that, the attrition, and the rapid reserve stacks you can make it's pretty easy to defend your poo poo and then if you can force someone to run away, great, chase them down and burn their stuff while they run.
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Jul 26, 2022 06:14
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Dr Christmas posted:Is there something that gives game 3 AI factions with a playable LL and advantage over those without? If there is, it feels like this doesn’t extend to previous games’ LLs in RoC, like Karl and Throt. Yes, WH3 native factions benefit from the potential system and non-natives, even with LLs, do not. It's why Skrag rolls over the Empire every time, and why Throt does fuckall. There are mods to adjust this, if you like.
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Jul 26, 2022 06:22
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The attrition invocation is great for damaging enemies but it does not actually get rid of them, and when you are defending a wide front against many enemies it is necessary to be able to actually destroy enemy armies rather than having them simply run just slightly out of range and then come back next turn.
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Jul 26, 2022 06:27
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Dandywalken posted:wtf, that mod exists??? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2790119460&searchtext=force+march There's a version of this available for all three games and it's one of the only mods I ever use. I think if you use march stance, with the mod on, the break even point on distance travelled is if you force march 3 turns in a row or more it's faster than standard travel and is a movement loss otherwise. toasterwarrior posted:Yes, WH3 native factions benefit from the potential system and non-natives, even with LLs, do not. It's why Skrag rolls over the Empire every time, and why Throt does fuckall. There are mods to adjust this, if you like. I think the other thing that came into play was that the LL factions had better AI cheats than the minor subfactions, so they could spin up and push off enemy factions unless they were getting truly ganged up on (see, Huntsmarshal, Nakai, Most Beastmen) DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 06:47
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99pct of germs posted:i wish there was a system that let you preserve units by "dismissing" them to a global unit pool where they would replenish over a number of turns and could be re-recruited later on. I mean the older games 'solved' this problem by not tying units to a lord. So in this case you'd just be able to march your Greatswords back to your military settlement and just retrain them. There were 'issues' (which could easily be dealt with or removed even) such as defection, possible exp loss due to the retrain and the extra busy work of marching them back and forth, but getting to decouple troops from lords/generals is something I miss. Kanos posted:I'd honestly like to see the game restructured so having to recover after big battles was more normalized(as in if you fight a 50% casualty battle that stack is out of it for a few turns to recover), but instead you're able to economically support more armies so you still have stuff to do while your main army is recruiting/replenishing. Same with this. When I played Shogun 2 recently I was able to have a couple of big armies but I had the freedom to split them up if I had to (though unironically the map layout in that game meant I didn't really have to), whereas in this game/series I've basically just got an enormous unwieldy hammer that has to do a combination of whack a mole/point defense. It does make me wonder if that's part of the reason why doomstacks were so bad in TWW2, because you can only really have one or two armies early on while even little pissant two settlement AI can support 3 stacks on a higher difficulty. OwlFancier posted:I spent several turns chasing two daemon prince stacks around troll country because they were just playing keep away with my army. As far as I can tell they don't have a hero that can block movement and the reduction to enemy movement from the commandment as I said doesn't overcome the improvement from the enemy being in forced march. They would be slower if they weren't using that, but there's nothing stopping them from just going into forced march and keeping just ahead of your forces because you have almost identical move speeds at that point. Just remembered the only real campaign of TWW3 I finished. I was in Khorne's realm, the daemon prince stack there was hot garbage and was just constantly running away from me in Forced March, but was able to own the Khorne armies suiciding on it and then it just perfectly ran around me doing its forced march garbage and took the soul. I got around it by sitting on the point in Ambush stance, amazing gameplay. Chucat fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 08:22
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Chucat posted:I mean the older games 'solved' this problem by not tying units to a lord. So in this case you'd just be able to march your Greatswords back to your military settlement and just retrain them. There were 'issues' (which could easily be dealt with or removed even) such as defection, possible exp loss due to the retrain and the extra busy work of marching them back and forth, but getting to decouple troops from lords/generals is something I miss. This is yet another thing that 3K largely solved. Since a full 3K stack is 3 lords with 6 units each max, and the lords can be separated and moved around individually with their personal retinues, you get the benefits of both the old system(where you can send small detached units to scout or fight smaller incursions) and the new system(not having 500 baby stacks of 1-2 units scattering in all directions at all times). Upkeep in that game was also a lot more reasonable so having the equivalent of a strong province or two meant you could put a couple stacks in the field. As for doomstacks being a problem in TWW2, I think that could mostly be nailed down to supply lines penalties being enormously too harsh. You simply could not make chaff stacks in that game on higher difficulties because the scaling cost increase was set so high that it would literally ruin your economy, so every stack had to bring as much power as possible. TWW3 has thankfully at least tamped down on the supply lines penalties enormously.
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Jul 26, 2022 10:58
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DeathSandwich posted:I cowarded out and played Katarina for my first campaign. Interestingly I don't remember that being much of a problem in the Katarin campaign I played. Kislev has a commandment that reduces army movement range. Between that and using heroes (I believe ice witches) to stop armies, I found I was catching enemy armies pretty often if I wanted.
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Jul 26, 2022 12:51
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I still remember the days of single unit AI stacks running around my lands like cockroaches. I do not miss bieng able to detach units from lords.
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Jul 26, 2022 13:06
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Supply lines jumping from 2% to 15% was my single most hated change in TW2, it ruined so many swarm factions like Skarsnik and vampires could only get away with it because the skeletons were all free so they didn't mind if the lords and any support was 1000+ per turn in upkeep. They wanted to solve the problem of 1 main army being followed by 3+ lords soaking experience and acting as elite army thrashers or duelists, but it was the wrong way to do it.
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Jul 26, 2022 13:37
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Imagine enjoying Shogun 2 navies. Captain Oblivious posted:Honestly it’s not even a problem with Chaos necessarily. It’s mostly Nurgle. Most Chaos Gods have no real problem having variety in characterization for their champions. Sigvald and Azazel have a very different voice despite both being Slaanesh. Skarbrand Skulltaker and Valkia all have distinctly different shticks. Vilitch, Kairos, and the Scribes likewise. I really like the old Nurgle generic chaos lord because his vibe is so different from the rest. 
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Jul 26, 2022 13:42
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