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I forget if it was here or the resume thread, but i saw people talking about scheduling a meeting with their boss to give notice. At my last job, I just sent an email. What's the common etiquette nowadays?
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Jul 22, 2022 23:43
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Magnetic North posted:I forget if it was here or the resume thread, but i saw people talking about scheduling a meeting with their boss to give notice. At my last job, I just sent an email. What's the common etiquette nowadays? I do both. Email for paperwork, meeting for respect. If I actually respect them the meeting is before the email.
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Jul 22, 2022 23:44
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Jordan7hm posted:I do both. Email for paperwork, meeting for respect.
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Jul 23, 2022 01:31
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Don't forget that, despite modern day expectations, emails do not have to arrive! So if you would only quit by mail, your resignation might never arrive and/or your boss could claim this anyway.
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Jul 23, 2022 04:40
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This is why the safe play is to also take a giant poo poo on your manager’s desk.
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Jul 23, 2022 06:48
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Adhemar posted:This is why the safe play is to also take a giant poo poo on your manager’s desk. Man, how am I supposed to do this in the new normal with remote work? All those RTO boomers were right.  Thank you all. That is essentially what I thought. I don't especially have much to add to the thread success stories, because 1: I don't wish to share too many details 2: for reasons very specific to this opportunity (not simply a lack of confidence) I didn't feel I had tons of room to negotiate though I did make a counter offer and got the middleground so I got something and 3: part of me does not feel this process was a success anyway because it was way way longer than I wanted it to, partly because I negotiated a previous offer and it fell the hook. I know this is actually a benefit in the long run because it means they suck but it meant multiple months of additional stress looking when I just wanted the search to be over. Also, I should have started looking 10 months ago when I realized that I was pretty severely underpaid. I stayed loyal to my coworkers and I cost myself money in the short term. Obviously that shortfall will be made up in the coming months, but it is scary to think that with the possibility of upcoming economic tightness, it's possible I could have completely screwed myself if one of these hadn't panned out sooner. Hell, becoming the low seniority person means it's possible that this will still go wrong later on though there is little to be done about that now. As I've said before, don't be like your stupid uncle Magnetic North. Don't ask for a raise; just leave. If do you ask for one and they say you have to wait, just leave. If you still wait and get one and it's inadequate, well you made the same mistake as I did.
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Jul 23, 2022 10:01
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Gonna take that to heart: I've been at the same company for almost 7 years. It's about 5x longer than I ever worked for any one place in my life. I know I'm underpaid (senior in a tech job) and the company's values are basically diametrically opposite to mine. Its time to leave, and the only thing that was keeping me in place (lots of PTO for an US based company, due to seniority) has not been that great in reality. Right now I'm about to take the rest of my vacation and start looking once it's over. Don't be like the old gbut, kids. The first disappointing review, or the first inadequate raise should tell you to start moving. I'm a couple of years too late, but better late then never. I'm actually looking forward to exercising the stuff I learned in this thread.
gbut fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jul 23, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 13:25
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SEKCobra posted:Don't forget that, despite modern day expectations, emails do not have to arrive! So if you would only quit by mail, your resignation might never arrive and/or your boss could claim this anyway. If you're not on an employment contract, who gives a poo poo.
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Jul 23, 2022 18:27
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Inept posted:If you're not on an employment contract, who gives a poo poo. As was discussed earlier not giving notice can make you not eligible for rehire, and a company disclosing that on a reference check is not slander and not really actionable in court (it's the truth). Plus chances are your industry is smaller than you think, not giving notice can gently caress you over if an opportunity comes around again at the old company, or if your boss(es) end up somewhere where you cross paths again. Putting in proper notice takes like almost no effort and not doing so can mess you up.
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Jul 23, 2022 19:14
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Inept posted:who gives a poo poo. covered this. you. on your bosses desk.
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Jul 23, 2022 23:29
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Got the job offer today. Had been quiet on desired salary or current salary throughout the entire interview process. They pressed me on the matter several times, but I kept my mouth shut. Today they offered a salary number. I said I had imagined something a bit higher - about 8k higher. They countered with the original offer + 3k. I asked for the offer + 4k. She said that might be difficult, but she would hear with whomever would have final say and that I'd receive a written offer later. The offer received was the + 3k she had proposed originally. In total, the offer is a comfortable step up from what I have now - and above the current market rate (though the data set is small), and I really want to work at that place. So in theory I should be really happy. But somehow I'm a bit miffed that they couldn't meet me at 1k more, which has taken some of the joy out of it. But I'm going to accept anyway, because rationally I know that the offer is good. I just wish I was happier about it. Stupid brain.
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Jul 26, 2022 19:56
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You got a significant pay increase and a market-to-above-market salary while letting them feel like they won. Well played.
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Jul 26, 2022 20:16
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uncle blog posted:Got the job offer today. Had been quiet on desired salary or current salary throughout the entire interview process. They pressed me on the matter several times, but I kept my mouth shut. Today they offered a salary number. I said I had imagined something a bit higher - about 8k higher. They countered with the original offer + 3k. I asked for the offer + 4k. She said that might be difficult, but she would hear with whomever would have final say and that I'd receive a written offer later. The offer received was the + 3k she had proposed originally. In total, the offer is a comfortable step up from what I have now - and above the current market rate (though the data set is small), and I really want to work at that place. So in theory I should be really happy. But somehow I'm a bit miffed that they couldn't meet me at 1k more, which has taken some of the joy out of it. But I'm going to accept anyway, because rationally I know that the offer is good. I just wish I was happier about it. Stupid brain. This is a good example of "You probably would have been happier if they landed at the same (or even lower!) number had they started lower and negotiated up more." fallacy but I think you get that. The real situation is: You Did A Good Job Getting The Increase You Did. As an FYI, when someone asks for a small increase like $1k, unless it's falling to a round number that is basically tipping your hand that you will accept the current offer. I usually give it anyway, because $1k is nothing and it's nice to start with a "Ok, you got me, you drive a hard bargain" tone but if the manager is in a situation where those $1k budget items actually have an impact you're basically saying it's ok if you don't budge.
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Jul 26, 2022 20:18
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uncle blog posted:So in theory I should be really happy. But somehow I'm a bit miffed that they couldn't meet me at 1k more, which has taken some of the joy out of it. But I'm going to accept anyway, because rationally I know that the offer is good. I just wish I was happier about it. Stupid brain. Congrats! That's still something! I feel you on the disappointment, though. I just got offered a short-term remote contract (W-2) to return to my previous job, which I had to leave because I moved out of state and the company has a really poor stance on full-time remote work. I had a number in mind to make up for the loss of my PTO and vested 401k, and their offer actually exceeded it. Even though my previous boss was on the email, I was told it was the max offer, AND that it was an extremely competitive, non-location-adjusted rate for the area I left, I asked for 6% more anyway just to see what would happen. My boss very nicely told me no! I couldn't not try, though. What if she had said yes? The disappointment was strong but it wore off after a few days.
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Jul 26, 2022 20:18
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I was asked by the company I’m leaving what they could do to make me stay and I’m debating responding with my offer letter and saying “more than thiis”
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Jul 26, 2022 20:26
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Pillowpants posted:I was asked by the company I’m leaving what they could do to make me stay and I’m debating responding with my offer letter and saying “more than thiis” I wouldn't do that. Just go, enjoy the new role (hopefully), and let them stew.
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Jul 26, 2022 20:30
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Lockback posted:This is a good example of "You probably would have been happier if they landed at the same (or even lower!) number had they started lower and negotiated up more." fallacy Thanks guys, this is basically what I needed to hear. I considered sending a response tomorrow saying something along the lines of "I would strongly appreciate and consider it a gesture of good faith if we could meet at [1k more]", but I think I'll probably drop it. At this point I risk getting even more disappointed if I get rejected. All I need now is a friend or two to get back from vacation so I can buy them a few rounds of beer to celebrate, that will get me back in the right mind set.
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Jul 26, 2022 20:31
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I'd maybe say "I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm happy with this new direction."?
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Jul 26, 2022 20:39
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Pillowpants posted:I was asked by the company I’m leaving what they could do to make me stay and I’m debating responding with my offer letter and saying “more than thiis” It was very satisfying, but it didn't actually help anything. uncle blog posted:Yeah, this is totally it!
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Jul 26, 2022 20:44
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Arquinsiel posted:Is ~60 a month really that much as a percentage of your take home or can you sit back and congratulate yourself on knowing when you've won for the time you work there and be happier?
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Jul 26, 2022 21:03
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You already won dogg, they came up by 3k
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Jul 26, 2022 22:27
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You already won dogg, they came up by 3k 
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Jul 27, 2022 02:30
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I can totally confirm the wanting to negotiate up more part, at the end it was getting real hard for me to appreciate offers that were actually really decent, just because I had people offer me a stack more cash before. In the end I am happy with the offer I took, because the benefits and circumstances are a good fit for what I wanted, while places that offered me 5k more just had lovely working conditions. Also getting more cash after the first "no i want more"+response is almost impossible as far as I can tell. If you asked for more and they came back with less, it seems to me that usually is their final offer. Might be able to increase some soft stuff ir one time things, but from my experience they will try and match your ask within their budget and pay schemes and whatnot.
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Jul 27, 2022 07:10
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The end number is all that matters, how you got there really doesn't.
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Jul 27, 2022 16:22
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What’s a reasonable time to wait an offer but not actually an offer? Two and a half weeks since “we’d like you to join the team”. Do I chalk this up to summer out of office time or bureaucracy? HR says comp is xx+ (but not a true offer) and I say that range is fine with me. I hadn’t seen the full benefits laid out and generally I’ll ask for specific amount or changes after hearing the whole verbal offer. I haven’t missed the window to ask about a signing bonus have I? And how does one bring that up as an option? Edited down for clarity.** timepenguin fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Jul 28, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 23:15
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I wouldn’t wait to get something in writing to negotiate. What did you say when they “wanted to make sure $XXX was good”? That would have been the time to negotiate specifics, including signing bonus, verbally. Also, I hope this isn’t the only company you’re talking to because I wouldn’t hold my breath on them coming through.
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Jul 28, 2022 03:13
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timepenguin posted:What’s a reasonable time to wait an offer but not actually an offer? Two and a half weeks since “we’d like you to join the team”. Do I chalk this up to summer out of office time or bureaucracy? That is a long time to wait for specifics, especially with no word since. I would just call and ask if they are waiting on you or maybe something got lost in the mail.
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Jul 28, 2022 08:57
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Yeah, you probably need to reach out and get the ball rolling. I am guessing they might be freezing up new hire activity.
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Jul 28, 2022 13:57
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timepenguin posted:What’s a reasonable time to wait Ideally, the recruiter says “we’ll let you know by X”. If they don’t and you are paying attention, you should say something like, “when should I expect to hear back from you about next steps?” If nobody remembers to do this at the end of an interview segment, you should write/call as soon as possible and say, “I thought that interview went very well. Do you know when you’ll have a decision to share with me?” If the deadline they gave you expires, wait a day and then say something like, “hi, have you had time to review interview feedback? Is there anything else you need from me? I’m excited about this job!” If the recruiter doesn’t reply to that within a few days, I’d try contacting other people in the org (hiring manager) to ask what’s up. Some companies take a very long time to put an offer together, but they should know that and be able to give you a time estimate. Also, even if the company says, it will take us two months to review feedback, if you need them to be faster (another offer, your current job is miserable, etc) you should immediately write the recruiter to ask for faster movement.
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Jul 28, 2022 14:09
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Adhemar posted:I wouldn’t wait to get something in writing to negotiate. What did you say when they “wanted to make sure $XXX was good”? That would have been the time to negotiate specifics, including signing bonus, verbally. Well, they did say xxx+, which to me was a little broader of a net and I said more or less said "yeah, sounds in range" and that was it. SEKCobra posted:That is a long time to wait for specifics, especially with no word since. I would just call and ask if they are waiting on you or maybe something got lost in the mail. Lockback posted:Yeah, you probably need to reach out and get the ball rolling. I am guessing they might be freezing up new hire activity. Mniot posted:Ideally, the recruiter says “we’ll let you know by X”. If they don’t and you are paying attention, you should say something like, “when should I expect to hear back from you about next steps?” Some more context around the timing: 3 Mondays ago - "Excited at the opportunity for you to join, HR will reach out about specifics." End of that week - Hey HM, uhh hadn't heard from HR. 2 Mondays ago - HR called and mentioned ~salary etc. (see above) They were going to get back with an update Wed. End of Wed - "Hey approval someone was on vacay, hoping they are back tomorrow..." Past Monday - Any update on timeline trying to sort some things out on my side? "Summer vacays... might have an update Wed" Wed - ... I know some organizations can take a while to put together offers, but in my experience, the ball is already rolling on approvals if HM is ready to go. However, I am almost thinking something along the lines of new hire slowdowns/freeze - quarterly results coming soon so they could be adjusting 2nd half budget. Additionally, I know there was a reorg earlier this year and actually, the original HM isn't the true HM but a new person under a VP I interviewed with so there could be some holdup there. I have yet to speak to the would-be boss but I'd rather have something in writing so I'm the one to make the decision and not them if the new guy doesn't jive. Either way, it's getting on 3 weeks without a true verbal offer or something in writing so not holding my breath.
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Jul 28, 2022 16:43
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things do tend to move slowly in July and August because of vacations
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Jul 28, 2022 16:47
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I'm looking in tech and my feeling is that things are moving fast despite having to juggle things around because people are on vacation. But it's the US, notorious "no vacation for you" land.
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Jul 28, 2022 19:38
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What’s the thread consensus for proper etiquette/strategy when you have multiple offers in the pipeline? Given an offer with an accept-by date, is it generally ok to accept then send a Dear John letter if something better comes along, or is better to ask for an extension on the offer expiration? At-will state, like most
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Jul 31, 2022 19:17
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Not a Children posted:What’s the thread consensus for proper etiquette/strategy when you have multiple offers in the pipeline? Given an offer with an accept-by date, is it generally ok to accept then send a Dear John letter if something better comes along, or is better to ask for an extension on the offer expiration? Ask for time to consider the offer.
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Jul 31, 2022 19:27
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Yeah, it's ok to say "I am considering other offers and will need more time." Accepting and bailing isn't the end of the world but isn't good and can kill your chances with that manager/company in the future, and the world is smaller than you think.
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Jul 31, 2022 19:39
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If a company isn’t willing to give you time to consider your options then don’t feel bad about accepting and then reneging later when you get a better one. That’s what happens when you try to pressure people into something that’s not in their best interests.
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Aug 1, 2022 01:14
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qhat posted:If a company isn’t willing to give you time to consider your options then don’t feel bad about accepting and then reneging later when you get a better one. That’s what happens when you try to pressure people into something that’s not in their best interests. Accenture did this to me right out of school. I've never regretted either accepting their exploding offer or telling them that I was no longer able to continue with the role (days later and prior to starting).
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Aug 1, 2022 01:34
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Hey thread, looking for some advice about what to do about a job offer I received. Currently, I'm just working a part-time retail position at $16.50 an hour and am not enjoying it too much. Last year, I was hired seasonally at a company selling Christmas decorations at $18 an hour and the option to come back this year was floated at the end of the season. I received an email not too long ago extending that offer to work with them again, and I would prefer to go back there compared to my job now. However, I know just getting rehired at that $18/hr rate would be selling myself short knowing I'm their ideal candidate already. Just getting an increase to ~$19.50 to match inflation seems like the bare minimum, so where should I start with my numbers? A couple of things to consider: 1) When I was first hired there, I discussed my wages with a more senior employee and found out he was only making $16/hr. He went to our boss and got a match to my hourly wage, and I assume he's still at the company. How much does an employer knowing I'll openly discuss wages hurt my chances in negotiation? Honestly, knowing now that he is a huge crypto bro I probably wouldn't bother doing it again for him, but our boss seemed nice enough too that he might just bump his wage if he hires me at a higher rate. 2) I'd like my schedule to let me work from home a couple of days a week, and I know they were the type to prefer people in the office since they initially floated the idea of that last year and reneged on it. Do I have to limit my initial ask if I'm also asking for that accommodation too? Maybe monkeypox gets bad enough that they have to make me a fully remote employee no matter what, but I wouldn't want to bet on that and agree to be in the office every day just on the premise that I could get a little bit more money if I don't ask.
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Aug 2, 2022 15:14
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I would open with telling them how you’re excited to work there again. Everyone like an ego stroking. Then suggest a higher wage ($21? I don’t have a great idea about what number to name, but I’d open higher than your minimum so that when they talk you down you’re still happy. ) I think you are better off picking either negotiating for remote or for more money. Once they say “not so many days remote” or “not so much cash” you can float the other thing as a way of making up the difference.
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Aug 2, 2022 15:47
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Name the number you'd want for working there without any remote and add to it. When they negotiate, ask for remote.
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Aug 2, 2022 17:04
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