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moths posted:People's tastes aren't really that nebulous or unfathomable though. You only need to suggest the correct one (out of maybe three) new game in a genre to have a winning success rate. You know how video games all have relatively clear genres that should be easy to recommend, based on your argument? And how we just got done talking about how Steam's recommendations are almost always either free association randomness because something shares a very broad tag with what you play or "we know you like shooters, have you heard of this little game called 'Call of Duty'?"? Algorithmic curation is harder than you think it is, it just sounds easy because human-driven curation is comparatively easy if someone has good opinions.
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Jul 27, 2022 16:09
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Maybe you shouldn't have looked at toaster ovens while high one night, then Amazon wouldn't have the mistaken idea that your entire life is revolving around purchasing a Toaster Oven and you should check out these toaster ovens that other people have purchased recently
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Jul 27, 2022 16:09
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Kurieg posted:Throatsinging George is an outlier and should be ignored. I will never ignore Mongolian throat singing
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Jul 27, 2022 16:13
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Cessna posted:Still sad about Tengger Cavalry. Same. Nine Treasures is real good, have you checked them out?
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Jul 27, 2022 16:14
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Mors Rattus posted:Same. Nine Treasures is real good, have you checked them out? No, I will! I saw Tengger Cavalry a few times live, they put on a great show. They went out of their way to spend time with the crowd before, during, and after the performance. 
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Jul 27, 2022 16:23
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I'm a big fan of Soyol Erdene, who are kinda like the Mongolian Beatles
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Jul 27, 2022 16:29
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Dexo posted:Maybe you shouldn't have looked at toaster ovens while high one night, then Amazon wouldn't have the mistaken idea that your entire life is revolving around purchasing a Toaster Oven and you should check out these toaster ovens that other people have purchased recently
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Jul 27, 2022 16:31
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Halloween Jack posted:I've had a run of bad luck in the past couple years, and I can assure you that if you have the misfortune to buy a dishwasher, refrigerator, dryer, or vacuum cleaner while sober, those companies will relentlessly email you like you're a maniacal billionaire who buys a new refrigerator every day. Thankfully no one is emailing to ask if I have more pets I want to cremate. i just used the self-checkout at a local store and it asked me if i wanted more offers by email and already had my email helpfully filled out - because i'm already a member of their loyalty program and have their associated credit card. gently caress offffff companies. i used to work for them, even!
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Jul 27, 2022 16:34
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moths posted:People's tastes aren't really that nebulous or unfathomable though. You only need to suggest the correct one (out of maybe three) new game in a genre to have a winning success rate. That's solving a problem by raising another question that's just as hard and not necessarily the same. This is peak "why are all the specialists in this topic working on this? I can solve it in an afternoon!"-STEM guy reasoning.
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Jul 27, 2022 16:39
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Lurks With Wolves posted:You know how video games all have relatively clear genres that should be easy to recommend, based on your argument? And how we just got done talking about how Steam's recommendations are almost always either free association randomness because something shares a very broad tag with what you play or "we know you like shooters, have you heard of this little game called 'Call of Duty'?"? Algorithmic curation is harder than you think it is, it just sounds easy because human-driven curation is comparatively easy if someone has good opinions. If you compare Spotify's custom categories with actual genres, it's basically two different universes of organization. Only the nerdiest music enthusiasts would recognize the sorts of categories that's used with the differences, while obvious upon listening, would never be used by a casual listener. In comparison to the categories Steam uses, since they're user defined they're basically too broad to be useful in doing the fine honing that would be expected of an ai
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Jul 27, 2022 17:05
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Halloween Jack posted:I've had a run of bad luck in the past couple years, and I can assure you that if you have the misfortune to buy a dishwasher, refrigerator, dryer, or vacuum cleaner while sober, those companies will relentlessly email you like you're a maniacal billionaire who buys a new refrigerator every day. Thankfully no one is emailing to ask if I have more pets I want to cremate. Lucky you, after dealing with my dad's cremation I got emails from the place that handled it for a couple of months after about other plans and such  This was of course after I'd already filled out the stupid "How did we do" survey they sent me. It was extremely funny waking up some mornings to clear out my emails to see "Have you considered cremation plans?". Yes I did already thanks!
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Jul 27, 2022 17:11
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Lurks With Wolves posted:You know how video games all have relatively clear genres that should be easy to recommend, based on your argument? I realize this is sarcastic, but yes. If you look at what's selling, it all still roughly breaks down into FPS, 3rd person, sports, puzzle, and whatever. Is there ever more than six of any particular genre getting released at the same time? "People with similar habits played X the longest" isn't some kind of next gen AI super-STEM breakthrough. Especially when X is one of four choices. The biggest hiccup is that Steam can't use data from outside itself.
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Jul 27, 2022 17:12
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moths posted:I realize this is sarcastic, but yes. If you look at what's selling, it all still roughly breaks down into FPS, 3rd person, sports, puzzle, and whatever. How would you handle the difference in playtime between stuff like 100+hour RPGs and >2 hour indie games, would the first be considered more liked just by being longer? Or stuff like idle games or MMOs where you have to queue to log in because of a global shortage of servers? You also can't just try to sell the latest games, because a lot of the market can only afford to buy games at a discount, so you have to keep track of older games as well. Which is something that suddenly blows up the possible games by many orders of magnitude. Can Steam do a whole lot better? Yes. Is it a trivial problem? Hell No.
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Jul 27, 2022 17:23
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Hel posted:How would you handle the difference in playtime between stuff like 100+hour RPGs and >2 hour indie games, would the first be considered more liked just by being longer? Or stuff like idle games or MMOs where you have to queue to log in because of a global shortage of servers? You also can't just try to sell the latest games, because a lot of the market can only afford to buy games at a discount, so you have to keep track of older games as well. Which is something that suddenly blows up the possible games by many orders of magnitude. Why would you? If someone plays a two hour indie platformer, compare its playtime with other indie platformers. And you don't need to curate the back catalog because word of mouth, streamers, forums, communities etc already do that. It's just kinda weird to see everybody defend a lovely algorithm's performance against the unsolvable problem of "suggesting a videogame."
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Jul 27, 2022 17:34
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Improbable Lobster posted:Recommendations have gotten so much worse everywhere, it's hilarious how bad these company's algorithmic poo poo is while they put all of their eggs in that basket The Editor's Choice has gotten consistently terrible. For example, the editor's choice for Ethiopian cookbooks is an entirely different cuisine.
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Jul 27, 2022 17:37
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Halloween Jack posted:I've had a run of bad luck in the past couple years, and I can assure you that if you have the misfortune to buy a dishwasher, refrigerator, dryer, or vacuum cleaner while sober, those companies will relentlessly email you like you're a maniacal billionaire who buys a new refrigerator every day. Thankfully no one is emailing to ask if I have more pets I want to cremate. I used my Gmail address for all my nWoD/CoD work correspondence for like 10 years, I get nothing but ads for goth clubs and vampire fang dentistry.
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Jul 27, 2022 17:40
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moths posted:Why would you? If someone plays a two hour indie platformer, compare its playtime with other indie platformers. First: teach the robot what indie means, what platformers mean, and what is and isn’t the back catalog, and now you have to teach it the similarities between components of all those things and differences so that it is not, for example, going to see you played Hollow Knight and decide based solely on that you also want to play Braid.
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Jul 27, 2022 19:01
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The modern grey alien was very much inspired by the cover of Whitley Strieber's Communion, which isn't actually accurate to the beings he claimed he encountered, but it's so chilling looking that it entered the public zeitgeist for decades. Very late to the conversation, but I've always favored the idea that the grey aliens are just barn owls folk mistook for something else  
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Jul 27, 2022 19:27
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moths posted:It's just kinda weird to see everybody defend a lovely algorithm's performance against the unsolvable problem of "suggesting a videogame." The algorithm isn't lovely, it's "good enough". The work is done at this point, so as long as it's making them any money it's worth leaving up. Improvements would require proof that the return would be worth it.
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Jul 27, 2022 19:56
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moths posted:People's tastes aren't really that nebulous or unfathomable though. You only need to suggest the correct one (out of maybe three) new game in a genre to have a winning success rate. Turns out that doesn't actually work because people don't actually fit into the neat lil demographic boxes that companies put us in. It's not about giving people recommendations they'll buy, it's about trying to figure out which advertising demographic they can sell you in. Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jul 27, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 20:54
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moths posted:I realize this is sarcastic, but yes. If you look at what's selling, it all still roughly breaks down into FPS, 3rd person, sports, puzzle, and whatever. If I like fighting games or something and just want to know what a new popular one is, Steam already does that. It just recommended me Multiversus, as an example, because I have a bunch of hours in fighting games in my library. I assume people are talking about why it might be a tough problem to solve for Steam to do something more involved than that.
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Jul 27, 2022 21:15
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Dawgstar posted:With me Amazon likes to play "would you like more Transformers" (which is valid) or "how many toaster ovens do you need?" What about a Toaster Oven Transformer? They could be called Preheat or Broiler or EZ.
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Jul 27, 2022 22:24
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Nickoten posted:. I assume people are talking about why it might be a tough problem to solve for Steam to do something more involved than that. I ...think you might be right. I'm reading a lot of posts as "market research doesn't exist!" and that's probably not what's actually being said.
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Jul 27, 2022 22:59
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Toph Bei Fong posted:Very late to the conversation, but I've always favored the idea that the grey aliens are just barn owls folk mistook for something else There are a lot of cryptids that are really clearly "saw an owl while it was dark/observer was in an altered state or just scared as hell," and it's kind of great. It makes me want to write a horror game where every problem is Just an Owl. (Still a problem! Just an owl. Maybe an owl with a knife.)
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Jul 28, 2022 00:02
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Halloween Jack posted:I've had a run of bad luck in the past couple years, and I can assure you that if you have the misfortune to buy a dishwasher, refrigerator, dryer, or vacuum cleaner while sober, those companies will relentlessly email you like you're a maniacal billionaire who buys a new refrigerator every day. Thankfully no one is emailing to ask if I have more pets I want to cremate. "You bought a car from us six months ago, are you ready to ditch that hunk of garbage? Seriously, whoever sold you something so terrible should be fired, come buy a new one!"
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Jul 28, 2022 00:03
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Antivehicular posted:There are a lot of cryptids that are really clearly "saw an owl while it was dark/observer was in an altered state or just scared as hell," and it's kind of great. It makes me want to write a horror game where every problem is Just an Owl. (Still a problem! Just an owl. Maybe an owl with a knife.) Bigfoot is just 37 owls stacked up in a ghillie suit
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Jul 28, 2022 00:30
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Antivehicular posted:There are a lot of cryptids that are really clearly "saw an owl while it was dark/observer was in an altered state or just scared as hell," and it's kind of great. It makes me want to write a horror game where every problem is Just an Owl. (Still a problem! Just an owl. Maybe an owl with a knife.) Hell just an Owl would be pretty scary. They have beaks and claws, they'll gently caress you up. Just make the Owl progressively bigger.
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Jul 28, 2022 00:40
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joylessdivision posted:Hell just an Owl would be pretty scary. They have beaks and claws, they'll gently caress you up. Just make the Owl progressively bigger. An owl the size of... A bear???
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Jul 28, 2022 01:27
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Kestral posted:An owl the size of... A bear??? I don't think that'd be a beast any more.
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Jul 28, 2022 01:50
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Antivehicular posted:There are a lot of cryptids that are really clearly "saw an owl while it was dark/observer was in an altered state or just scared as hell," and it's kind of great. It makes me want to write a horror game where every problem is Just an Owl. (Still a problem! Just an owl. Maybe an owl with a knife.)
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Jul 28, 2022 01:55
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Antivehicular posted:There are a lot of cryptids that are really clearly "saw an owl while it was dark/observer was in an altered state or just scared as hell," and it's kind of great. It makes me want to write a horror game where every problem is Just an Owl. (Still a problem! Just an owl. Maybe an owl with a knife.) On the other hand, consider: the owls are not what they seem.
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Jul 28, 2022 02:13
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SkyeAuroline posted:On the other hand, consider: the owls are not what they seem. The owls are exactly what they seem. Problem is, that isn't an owl.
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Jul 28, 2022 03:38
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yes yes, we've all played mouse guard.
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Jul 28, 2022 04:26
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Antivehicular posted:There are a lot of cryptids that are really clearly "saw an owl while it was dark/observer was in an altered state or just scared as hell," and it's kind of great. It makes me want to write a horror game where every problem is Just an Owl. (Still a problem! Just an owl. Maybe an owl with a knife.)  It's Wod though. Even if that's arguably the best book WW ever did.
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Jul 28, 2022 04:37
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Xiahou Dun posted:
I'd argue for the Horror Recognition Guide instead.
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Jul 28, 2022 04:46
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MonsieurChoc posted:I'd argue for the Horror Recognition Guide instead. The best story in which involves the Strix anyway!
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Jul 28, 2022 04:48
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MonsieurChoc posted:I'd argue for the Horror Recognition Guide instead. Fair point. I don't count that one because it isn't a game book anymore, it is literally just a collection of short stories. But not everyone uses my internal categories that I make up on the spot, so I see that.
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Jul 28, 2022 04:59
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SkyeAuroline posted:On the other hand, consider: the owls are not what they seem. Where they come from there is always music playing. And sometimes your arms bend backwards.
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Jul 28, 2022 05:11
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joylessdivision posted:Hell just an Owl would be pretty scary. They have beaks and claws, they'll gently caress you up. Just make the Owl progressively bigger. Barn Owls are also a very particular kind of terrifying, especially if they feel threatened and are trying to scare you off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGjoknxwbtw&t=19s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU8eirvzQIg
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Jul 28, 2022 05:13
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SkyeAuroline posted:On the other hand, consider: the owls are not what they seem. Maybe they found a man in a smiling bag.
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