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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:Nice rapsheet. gently caress off. Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:Man she's gonna take you for everything you have. I ran deep cover scams in EVE and pretended to be an alcoholic autistic nerds friend. It's the easiest way to get them to give you all their stuff, then you just keep pulling until they're dry. nice
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Jul 28, 2022 22:06
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WorkerThread posted:this is going to sound condescending, i guess, but i am genuinely curious. it seems clear that many people in this thread view how they participate in anything that's sheltered pedos and perpetuated abuse as a moral choice I clarified this from my lens I'll be straight with you, I really don't see a way around the argument that "how someone engages with a thing that sheltered pedos and structurally ignored abuse" is a moral topic when it comes to whether to continue self-selecting to participate in that thing, whatever it is
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Jul 28, 2022 22:06
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WorkerThread posted:this is going to sound condescending, i guess, but i am genuinely curious. it seems clear that many people in this thread view how they participate in this video game as a moral choice. do you make analogous decisions in your real life? like, never shopping on amazon, working for a company whose head has credible sexual harassment or discrimination claims, etc. video games are way lower stakes, i suppose where the consequences of sticking to your principles isn't as high. i don't mind being called a moron for still being in gsf, but the tension of constantly watching everything that has a tertiary relationship with your consumption habits (in this case, video gaming) seems very stressful Hello! Wouldn't it be funny if you posted that in front of a lunatic gold star lesbian separatist who only buys from ethical companies and raised her children without television or religious education to avoid indoctrination by the straight white British man. My food comes from a company who buys food from farms destined for landfill because of supermarket shenanigans. your move dipshit.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:06
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Bad Purchase posted:if i look at the post history of the people scolding goons for not leaving gsf after the mittens leaks, how many would i find that continued to participate on the SA forums after the lowtax leaks? This is a bad analogy because those leaks caused Lowtax to literally sell the forums and gently caress off and to answer your question - yeah, a lot of people did actually leave when the abuser stuff came out and then came back when the forums were sold to Jeffrey. Literally nothing has indicated that Mittani is leaving Goonswarm. He's just "stepping back" for a moment. He's not banned (Lowtax was banned). He hasn't guaranteed he wouldn't come back (Jeff guaranteed Lowtax wouldn't be back and would have no say in the forums going forward). Goonswarm hasn't denounced Mittani (SA absolutely denounced Lowtax's behavior and let the folks he abused speak their piece(s)) Also just for the sake of full disclosure, I was the one that said I faxed remdick.jpg to his law office waaay back when but I never actually did it because even 2008 me knew that was psychotic and a bridge too far but I absolutely liked making jokes about it because the concept was funny. Then it became something of a forum legend so I never disputed it but AFAIK, no one actually ever did that. Frank Frank fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jul 28, 2022 |
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Jul 28, 2022 22:10
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Potato Salad posted:I clarified this from my lens You better stop posting on SA then.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:11
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Bad Purchase posted:if i look at the post history of the people scolding goons for not leaving gsf after the mittens leaks, how many would i find that continued to participate on the SA forums after the lowtax leaks? Lowtax hasn't been relevant on the forums since well before I registered and the website responded to the allegations against him by telling him to gently caress off and very decisively severing ties with him.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:11
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People stopped giving money to Lowtax and donated what they had given him over the years to the fundraiser for his ex's the moment it all came to light. This whattaboutery is some shameful bullshit.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:13
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dragonshardz posted:Please just stop posting. Many users do not like, or want, you to post. i’ll see you in court
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Jul 28, 2022 22:13
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learnincurve posted:Hello! that would be funny, op. i agree with some of the above posters that my metaphor was bad, however. from my perspective as an extremely casual line member that never looks at the (gf) forums or listened to firesides, etc, maybe a more accurate metaphor is quitting your local soccer club because fifa is extremely abusive and corrupt. maybe the people in the eve thread, who play more seriously and built part of that organization, see it differently than i do
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Jul 28, 2022 22:16
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The whole pedo accusations thing on SA has gone on *well* after Lowtax, there's an active QCS thread accusing Jeffrey of ignoring the issue after yet another ADTRW explosion.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:17
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Yeah when the Lowtax stuff happened a lot of people stopped posting and hosed off to off sites and discords until the sale was negotiated. They definitely weren’t still dumping sales and ad revenue into his pockets through the SA Store and page views. It would be really easy for ~leadership~ to cut ties and  , but it seems the true purpose of ~~**ThE iMpErIuM~~** is to funnel a good percentage of its members towards revenue generating streams that enrich people who have been credibly accused of *gestures at the goldmined thread*...
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Jul 28, 2022 22:17
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Trying to draw parallels with what happened with Lowtax is, if you're a Mittani apologist, really fuckin stupid. It was pretty much the textbook 'how to sever the poisoned head of an organisation' approach and is the one we all wish GSF were copying.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:18
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WorkerThread posted:maybe the people in the eve thread, who play more seriously and built part of that organization, see it differently than i do That is likely a factor, yes. Frank Frank posted:This is a bad analogy because those leaks caused Lowtax to literally sell the forums and gently caress off and to answer your question - yeah, a lot of people did actually leave when the abuser stuff came out and then came back when the forums were sold to Jeffrey. Let's not forget the amnesties for people who Lowtax banned for calling him out, even if they didn't remain perfectly civil and professional in their response to allegations that had yet to be proven in a court of law. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jul 28, 2022 |
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Jul 28, 2022 22:18
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"Well I just take advantage of the broken system that enables abuse and even if everyone here has an issue with it I didn't participate with that but enjoy the perks of that system. I wasn't personally affected so I don't really see why people care, I sure don't and I want you all to know that. "
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Jul 28, 2022 22:22
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the reason i brought up lowtax is exactly as some have said -- many people did post a banme and left the forums over it. they didn't stick around and wait to see if things would change when the next guy took over. most people posting here probably didn't do that. i'm not gonna actually read your post history or look at reg dates with a microscope to call anyone out. i didn't leave the forums either, and i would leave gsf over this if i were still playing eve. but it's a fuzzy line to draw and i get why some people would say 'gently caress mittens' but not paint the entire organization under him as pedo enablers.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:22
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What's with all the FYGM whataboutism tonight? Whole lot of people with nothing to do right?
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Jul 28, 2022 22:26
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That Works posted:"Well I just take advantage of the broken system that enables abuse and even if everyone here has an issue with it I didn't participate with that but enjoy the perks of that system. I wasn't personally affected so I don't really see why people care, I sure don't and I want you all to know that. " hmm doesn't really seem like a fair characterization of what i'm saying
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Jul 28, 2022 22:26
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As an extremely casual member of this community who pays no attention to the places where people talk about the problems that keep happening, maybe a more accurate metaphor is faaaaaaaaaaaart
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Jul 28, 2022 22:26
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Vando posted:Trying to draw parallels with what happened with Lowtax is, if you're a Mittani apologist, really fuckin stupid. It was pretty much the textbook 'how to sever the poisoned head of an organisation' approach and is the one we all wish GSF were copying.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:27
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I'm pretty sure that almost nobody here is calling the rest of the org pedo enablers. Mittens was the enabler, people in leadership who fail to ensure a clean break with his legacy are pedo enabler apologists, line members are at worst selfish 'I see nothing' head in the sand types.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:28
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WorkerThread posted:hmm doesn't really seem like a fair characterization of what i'm saying Hey look if you wanna stay in the GSF and don't see a problem with it have fun and do that, but coming here to be all "well I don't see what the big deal is" sucks and you can eat the peanuts out of my poo poo.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:34
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WorkerThread posted:this is going to sound condescending, i guess, but i am genuinely curious. it seems clear that many people in this thread view how they participate in this video game as a moral choice. do you make analogous decisions in your real life? like, never shopping on amazon, working for a company whose head has credible sexual harassment or discrimination claims, etc. video games are way lower stakes, i suppose where the consequences of sticking to your principles isn't as high. i don't mind being called a moron for still being in gsf, but the tension of constantly watching everything that has a tertiary relationship with your consumption habits (in this case, video gaming) seems very stressful So the person working in an Amazon warehouse to (barely) afford food and shelter is analagous to you, the gamer? Implying that you're staying in the Imperium for similar pressure reasons? It is a game, idiot. There are literally no repercussions to your real life (unless you get on the wrong side of certain ex-waffe members of course) for deciding to do the right thing. A point you got so close to in your post but then entirely missed by suggesting that because the game stakes are so low, that somehow diminishes a moral action. I love your version of telling on yourself though- my default state of looking at GSF members is to assume that they genuinely think things are going to change (naive, but that's not the point). But you're happy to just out yourself as disbelieving that people can consistently act in a moral way both in and outside of a videogame? Bizzare.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:37
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Vando posted:Trying to draw parallels with what happened with Lowtax is, if you're a Mittani apologist, really fuckin stupid. It was pretty much the textbook 'how to sever the poisoned head of an organisation' approach and is the one we all wish GSF were copying. sure, in hindsight, i agree. but it wasn't obvious that was how it was gonna play out at the time. his account wasn't banned until what, like 9 months after he was ousted? and it took quite a while to transfer the company to jeffrey and get lowtax's name off the assets. i'm not optimistic that the mittani is gone forever or won't continue to profit somehow from the website or twitch account either, but i also wasn't convinced lowtax was gone forever and... well, turns out he pretty definitively is.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:39
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Bad Purchase posted:sure, in hindsight, i agree. but it wasn't obvious that was how it was gonna play out at the time. his account wasn't banned until what, like 9 months after he was ousted? and it took quite a while to transfer the company to jeffrey and get lowtax's name off the assets. Literally any time Lowtax tried to post after he sold the forums he was mocked/probed. The only reason he wasn't immediately banned is because the right to ban him was auctioned off. Go take a look at what happened to his Patreon when the news broke. Edit: Also this vvvvvvv
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Jul 28, 2022 22:42
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Bad Purchase posted:his account wasn't banned until what, like 9 months after he was ousted? and it took quite a while to transfer the company to jeffrey and get lowtax's name off the assets. you were so close when you wrote this bit
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Jul 28, 2022 22:42
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is mittani still posting on the goonfleet forums? i don't have access. that would definitely be pretty disgusting if he is and people aren't dogpiling him. edit: also it doesn't take 9 months to auction a ban, lol Bad Purchase fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 28, 2022 |
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Jul 28, 2022 22:43
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WorkerThread posted:that would be funny, op. i agree with some of the above posters that my metaphor was bad, however. from my perspective as an extremely casual line member that never looks at the (gf) forums or listened to firesides, etc, maybe a more accurate metaphor is quitting your local soccer club because fifa is extremely abusive and corrupt. maybe the people in the eve thread, who play more seriously and built part of that organization, see it differently than i do let's all take a minute to appreciate that your soccer club/fifa analogy is also extremely bad
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Jul 28, 2022 22:45
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Bad Purchase posted:is mittani still posting on the goonfleet forums? i don't have access. that would definitely be pretty disgusting if he is and people aren't dogpiling him. His account has been inactive since the day he stepped down.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:50
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pull up thread
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Jul 28, 2022 22:52
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Bad Purchase posted:is mittani still posting on the goonfleet forums? i don't have access. that would definitely be pretty disgusting if he is and people aren't dogpiling him. He is not.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:54
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learnincurve posted:What's with all the FYGM whataboutism tonight? nah, I figure it's like how the Ukraine threads get CSPAM/QCS posters thinking "I'm edgy and original" every couple weeks or so
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Jul 28, 2022 22:55
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Bad Purchase posted:i’ll see you in court I have already retained LEONARD J. KRABS, SPACE ATTORNEY AT SPACE LAW. Your move.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:57
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WorkerThread posted:nice I am a goosefleet recruiter. For a nominal fee of everything you have, I'll sponsor you into our nest . Please contract your ships to Tiets McGhee in game so I can arrange the logistics.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:57
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Bad Purchase posted:is mittani still posting on the goonfleet forums? i don't have access. that would definitely be pretty disgusting if he is and people aren't dogpiling him. No the mittani is "gone forever" (hasn't logged in for a few days) I don't think he ever posted on the forums anyway other than official posts. Someone else did the predicted timeline thing better but I think the gist was: Mittani leaves forever -> comes back in a few months/years just to chat about the good times -> is given a ceremonial positon in illum but definitely no leadership! -> some crisis happens, people mad at asher -> mittani "reluctantly" agrees to temporarily take control again -> oh look it's 2012 I'd love to be wrong and for him to never be heard from again but I just can't picture someone like that managing to completely sever themselves from efame
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Jul 28, 2022 22:58
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Vando posted:I'm pretty sure that almost nobody here is calling the rest of the org pedo enablers. Mittens was the enabler, people in leadership who fail to ensure a clean break with his legacy are pedo enabler apologists, line members are at worst selfish 'I see nothing' head in the sand types. Yes, I don't think anyone should be saying or implying that line members inherently did anything wrong, but defending bad leaders or just  ing without wanting reform is not a great look.I agree with the posts here that the Lowtax ousting (which was before I became a mod) ended up being a good example of what to do in a case like this. Cutting off revenue, forming alternate / fallback communities, audibly revolting against him, and ultimately forcing the sale.
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Jul 28, 2022 22:58
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Bad Purchase posted:the reason i brought up lowtax is exactly as some have said -- many people did post a banme and left the forums over it. they didn't stick around and wait to see if things would change when the next guy took over. most people posting here probably didn't do that. i'm not gonna actually read your post history or look at reg dates with a microscope to call anyone out. Most people posting here who were in GSF screamed and made noise until they were shot in the head for protesting.
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Jul 28, 2022 23:01
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WorkerThread posted:that would be funny, op. i agree with some of the above posters that my metaphor was bad, however. from my perspective as an extremely casual line member that never looks at the (gf) forums or listened to firesides, etc, maybe a more accurate metaphor is quitting your local soccer club because fifa is extremely abusive and corrupt. maybe the people in the eve thread, who play more seriously and built part of that organization, see it differently than i do Quitting your local soccer club that's entirely funded and outfitted and controlled and branded by fifa, because fifa is extremely abusive and corrupt, might be a tiny bit closer. Whatever subgroup you're a part of is still inextricable from the incredibly hateful thing at the top; that's what I was told when I joined, after all. One tribe, one culture, one Imperium. The corporations' individual cultures are subordinate to the alliance's. And if the alliance's culture is rotten then where does that leave you, when you're sticking around because you like the SRP machine and the GEZs and all the other benefits that the system has provided, because you're not one of the people who was wronged? Some people have to shop or eat at places they might find morally questionable because humans need certain things in order to live. How you choose to spend your leisure time is far more telling about your personal morality and what you consider important or not.
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Jul 28, 2022 23:04
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:I am a goosefleet recruiter. For a nominal fee of everything you have, I'll sponsor you into our nest . i think this guy is kind of what set the question in my mind. i love a good back and forth and don't mind generally aggressive language but you have a crossed a line into being abusive (the post i quoted above, not this one), even if that kind of stuff is normalized in eve. you're a toxic human being (based on your posts) and leaving gsf had no impact on that
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Jul 28, 2022 23:04
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dragonshardz posted:I have already retained LEONARD J. KRABS, SPACE ATTORNEY AT SPACE LAW. That would be my cue. What legal needings are needed here. https://evewho.com/character/91599460
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Jul 28, 2022 23:05
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Bad Purchase posted:the reason i brought up lowtax is exactly as some have said -- many people did post a banme and left the forums over it. they didn't stick around and wait to see if things would change when the next guy took over The time between the lowtax poo poo erupting and it being announced that a takeover was going to happen was less than 48 hours. Most of the goon communities I'm in were consolidating themselves offsite with discords etc and preparing to jump to communities elsewhere, that's a huge part of the reason why the takeover was agreed to in the first place. If the leadership of Imperium had acted even half as fast or effectively as SA mods/higher ups did then there's a good chance I'd still be in it. What they did instead was stonewall everyone in the hope that it would blow over, then purge and deny deny deny. Nthing the call that the Lowtax situation was a demonstration of how to handle that situation as best as possible, whereas the Imperium method was among the very worst.
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Jul 28, 2022 23:09
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