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Big Bro has always sounded awkward. Oniisan is clearly superior
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Jul 27, 2022 18:41
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the sex ghost posted:Just change it to 'bruh'
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Jul 27, 2022 18:44
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ChaosArgate posted:No one bats an eye that localized Nanako calls MC her “big bro”, and I’d say for a translation that’s the objectively correct choice over having her say “onii-san” in English. i can go either way it's just one of those weird phrases where the majority of the time i see it is in translations of japanese stuff lol
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Jul 27, 2022 18:44
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translate "senpai" to Big Sophomore imo
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Jul 27, 2022 18:45
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Big Bro just sounds awkward and unnatural, and not something a native English speaker would use. Nanako got a pass because she's young and excited about having an older family member around. That screenshot (Persona 1?) would feel a lot more natural if Noriko just said sis(ter) or used her sister's name.
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Jul 27, 2022 18:46
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they're not actually sisters tho (unless u meant that and i misread)
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Jul 27, 2022 18:52
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it's 2022, they should have translated as MY QUEEN
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Jul 27, 2022 18:56
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I actually wasn't aware of that detail. Either way, big sis/et. al., sound really unnatural.
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Jul 27, 2022 18:57
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either way is defensible i think, it's translation there's no one-size-fits-all
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Jul 27, 2022 19:01
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As a single child, all of it sounds unnatural, so be whatever flavor of weird you want ya bunch of sibling-havers.
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Jul 27, 2022 20:03
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In the specific screenshot, it's a really weird thing to try and translate because they're not related but it's a kind of one-sided senpai kind of relationship, and calling her onee-san is a character quirk. In IS they talk about how she keeps hoping Anna will return to the team and follows her around, and still maintains her running shoes, etc. In english, "big bro" and "big sis" are not something you use to address, but you use to describe. "My big sis likes wisteria". As an older-sibling-haver, I just say his name. Neeksy fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jul 27, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 20:27
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Just call your older siblings Big Boss as a compromise.
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Jul 27, 2022 21:32
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The iconic line
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Jul 28, 2022 06:48
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Feels Villeneuve posted:less defensibly i think 90% of the uses of "big bro" and "big sis" I've seen in the last decade have been from jrpg/vn/anime translations, i think it comes off just as artificially as inserting the untranslated term lol It's not the most natural sounding phrase, but it does serve the job of conveying the correct information to a reader with zero knowledge of the source language... you know, like a translation?
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Jul 28, 2022 14:21
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RillAkBea posted:It's not the most natural sounding phrase, but it does serve the job of conveying the correct information to a reader with zero knowledge of the source language... you know, like a translation? i think it's justifiable either way and really it's something you can just pick up in context anyway. like the style guide for Yakuza at this point leaves "aniki" untranslated instead of doing the usual thing of making it "bro" or something, and even someone who doesn't look that word up probably can figure out what it means in the context of someone calling a fellow member of a gang that. i wish there were some kind of a word for those sorts of unusual phrases which seem to specifically show up in translations and nowhere else like "big bro/sis" because it's always at least a little bit funny
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Jul 28, 2022 14:24
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I feel like “transliterate it instead of translating it at all” is without question the wrong localization choice, actually
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Jul 28, 2022 23:54
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I think there can be arguments where a term should go untranslated because there just really isn't a working translation that gets it across. The sort of people playing Persona are going to know what senpai means generally, and I can't really think of a translation that would quite work. Oneesan/sama and oniisan/sama have a variety of ways they could be translated and still get the point across, so I'd rather see them attempt a translation.
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Jul 29, 2022 01:36
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idk if it even matters if it's "more accurate" i think it's frequently done just as a stylistic choice. you're always going to have to deal with that kinda stuff when translating and there's no real hard and fast rules about things which are always or never right
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Jul 29, 2022 01:50
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update on the epp patch group stuff, seems like everything's ended well  the programmer for the new patch made a big post (on reddit) basically decrying the harassment people have been tossing at the iwakura team, explaining their history with the first group and saying it was a dick move of them to ghost the first team, saying they're gonna add a special thanks to the first team in the read me (they originally didn't want to mention them to avoid the iwakura team getting hassled which, Welp), and that they're gonna upload their patch tools online for people to use too since there's that whole discussion about honorifics. plus iwakura responded to say thank you and is also considering passing over their teams tools and tl work to the new patch group as well! reddits format is kinda weird and i couldn't figure out how to have both the op and iwakura's reply show up but if you click the triple lined box next to "submitted by eiowita" then it pops out the post??
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Jul 29, 2022 02:33
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anyways im p neutral on the whole honorific discussion, but the onee sama bit is making me think of gunbuster
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Jul 29, 2022 02:34
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:The iconic line Does Makoto say anything to that?
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Jul 29, 2022 03:36
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AngryRobotsInc posted:I think there can be arguments where a term should go untranslated because there just really isn't a working translation that gets it across. The sort of people playing Persona are going to know what senpai means generally, and I can't really think of a translation that would quite work. Oneesan/sama and oniisan/sama have a variety of ways they could be translated and still get the point across, so I'd rather see them attempt a translation. As a personal preference I favor terms like that to stay untranslated if no direct equivalent exists in English, because it's a pretty integral part in understanding the relationship between characters (though just how important varies from title to title). Like you can translate Oniisan to Big Bro but it sounds really unnatural when used to address someone, while you'll always translate Okaasan to Mom because that's directly equivalent and you also have several alternatives if you want to differentiate between different ways of addressing or talking about mothers. It also avoids awkwardly having to wrangle conversations that directly deal with people's use of particular terms of address for the stories where that comes up. Like, it's often not a critical part of the story and translating everything doesn't necessarily ruin it, but for those who care (like me) retaining the subtleties of how people refer to each other adds a lot to the story. Atlus has in recent years gone with the hybrid solution where some is translated/changed and some is kept, knowing that their target audience is probably more familiar with Japanese honorifics and cultural terms than the average video game player, and that the power of the internet means that anyone who isn't familiar but wants to know is only a google search away from an explanation. And I think there's an argument to be made that letting people learn more about cultures outside of their own can only be a good thing. Anyone making a product makes an assumption about its target demographic and the knowledge and familiarity they have with things like what you're making, which informs how the product is made. Atlus knows its target audience is above average familiar with Japanese honorifics and culture, and expects that the rest will either care enough to look it up or just pick it up from context after a while. Anyone making a game in English assumes its audience understands the English language and whatever cultural references and peculiarities they put in, even when the audience is international and many only have rudimentary understanding of the language and culture. While it's less common these days, I've basically had to look up English words in dictionaries my entire gaming life because I wasn't familiar enough with the language to understand everything (or the words used were uncommon or esoteric). I guess it might seem strange to someone monolingual who only consumes content in their native language, but having to look up words and learn about cultures outside of your own in order to enjoy certain media made outside your own country is more the rule than the exception in large parts of the world. AG3 fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jul 29, 2022 |
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Jul 29, 2022 08:01
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The most important thing to consider when leaving Japanese terms untranslated is how cringe/funny it would be to do so.
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Jul 29, 2022 17:48
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Pwnstar posted:The most important thing to consider when leaving Japanese terms untranslated is how cringe/funny it would be to do so. That's a good keikaku
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Jul 29, 2022 18:21
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DemoneeHo posted:That's a good keikaku My kokoro wish is that developers do this more often
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Jul 29, 2022 18:40
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lol I started on Persona 5 Royal last night, its my first playthrough, and I am also playing Xenoblade 3. Both are 100+ hour long JRPGs. Is this a cry for help?
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Jul 29, 2022 19:06
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Elvis_Maximus posted:My kokoro wish is that developers do this more often
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Jul 29, 2022 19:08
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The school segments are nice as well, you get to learn about stuff like the Tanabata festival and some dudes from the Kamakura era or whatever. Seems a bit weird for a game that is originally marketed towards Japanese adults though, imagine an equivalent game set in America where you're asked about like Andrew Jackson or the 4th of July like it's some sort of obscure trivia.
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Jul 29, 2022 19:38
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Dawgstar posted:Does Makoto say anything to that? Makoto does later confront her search for her own justice with her wanting to be a cop, I thought the storyline was handled well enough
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Jul 29, 2022 19:52
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AG3 posted:you'll always translate Okaasan to Mom because that's directly equivalent There are one or two cases where it's not though.  As far as translate vs transliterate goes, I'm a translator by profession so seeing stuff like senpai and onee-sama in a "translation" makes my skin crawl.
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Jul 29, 2022 19:56
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I am of the mind that most things should be attempted translated except for the things that have no cultural or linguistic counterpart. There are just some social functions in the Japanese language that we just do not have and it's really awkward to try and transliterate all things.
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Jul 29, 2022 21:05
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i think it's 100% to do things based on aesthetic or stylistic concerns like "'big bro' sounds loving lame" (i dont want to cause a serious translation flamewar lol it's a creative art like any other so it's going to depend on taste)
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Jul 29, 2022 21:06
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The solution is to translate the honorifics into new, made-up nonsense words.
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Jul 29, 2022 21:48
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Neeksy posted:I am of the mind that most things should be attempted translated except for the things that have no cultural or linguistic counterpart. There are just some social functions in the Japanese language that we just do not have and it's really awkward to try and transliterate all things. I generally agree, but at the same time, disagreements over what does and does not have a cultural counterpart is how we get "nakama"
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Jul 29, 2022 21:51
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SubG posted:The solution is to translate the honorifics into new, made-up nonsense words. this sounds like a great way to accidentally find new slurs
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Jul 29, 2022 22:07
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Makoto does later confront her search for her own justice with her wanting to be a cop, I thought the storyline was handled well enough Clearly her best option is to team with Chie and Akihiko and roam the earth dealing justice and only trusting their fists.
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Jul 29, 2022 23:12
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The funny thing is that Atlus USA has shown that they're able to handle these things a lot better than they do in Persona, they just don't because of some combination of time and executive/audience wants.
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Jul 29, 2022 23:46
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Blockhouse posted:this sounds like a great way to accidentally find new slurs
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Jul 30, 2022 00:01
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Arist posted:I generally agree, but at the same time, disagreements over what does and does not have a cultural counterpart is how we get "nakama" All according to keikaku
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Jul 30, 2022 00:41
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| # ? May 23, 2024 11:18 |
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Arist posted:I generally agree, but at the same time, disagreements over what does and does not have a cultural counterpart is how we get "nakama" Nakama is honestly not that hard to translate. Something like senpai is harder because we just don't really do upperclassman/lowerclassman stuff, and honorifics have both linguistic and cultural function. Of course not -all- honorifics aren't translatable, but there are a few that just can't make the jump. "san" is pretty easy to just change to Mr. or Ms.
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Jul 30, 2022 00:45
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