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I assume it will never happen because it's a huge pain in the rear end (so the only way it is happening is if it is automated) but man it would be amazing if tweets were all posted as screenshots or with a screenshot of the tweet. going through any thread over a year old is almost unreadable as so much of the discussion is around tweets and depending on the subject from like 50 to 90 percent of old tweets will be deleted or the accounts banned or whatever. I was reading the old USpol thread from the day of 1/6 and pretty much everything linked in there real time is now gone.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:24
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Not sure what’s the problem with creating a thread for a very valid and major issue, and letting all interested individuals participate in it. The problem is that you end up mainly with people who agree with one another one the issue, and there isn't much debate to be had. The point of a debate forum is at least in part to have debates. If your positions aren't at risk of being challenged or rebutted, what's the point of calling it a debate forum?
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Jul 31, 2022 20:24
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Majorian posted:See, to me it reads as one group of posters bringing up very valid points that challenge other posters' assumptions and declared values, and being told that actually no, they can't make those challenges outside of a quarantine thread. In other words, being discouraged from debating an issue. Yes, you're being discouraged from debating an issue in a thread where it's neither topical nor do the people you want to challenge have any desire to debate you because it's your pet issue you never shut up about. You can't force the topic of every thread to be about your personal crusade against the Democrats because you want to find liberals to yell at.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:24
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Majorian posted:The problem is that you end up mainly with people who agree with one another one the issue, and there isn't much debate to be had. The point of a debate forum is at least in part to have debates. If your positions aren't at risk of being challenged or rebutted, what's the point of calling it a debate forum? I’m happy to green light not just one, but whole 10 threads to cover the issue, should debating it in just a thread doesn’t count as a debate.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:26
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it's kinda funny that there are posters saying 'there are posters who just want to yell at others for not agreeing with em' and immediately follow that by complaining about their political beliefsGros Tarla posted:Why not elaborate on why? Joke answer: lol
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Jul 31, 2022 20:29
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perhaps we need a forum for discussing history
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Jul 31, 2022 20:32
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Harold Fjord posted:But that's just not wanting to read views on current events that you disagree with. That's just not true though, I disagree with the disreputabledog on everything he says but he typically tries to make a current or fresh point. I'm fine with people posting about new ways the Dems suck or some poo poo bill they did or didn't pass what is stifling to discussion is people wanting to relitigate 2008 dem majority didn't pass enough or trump is all Hilarious fault endlessly etc. This is why I feel the stale argument rule is good because otherwise news/events threada get bogged down in the same stupid slapfights.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:32
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Herstory Begins Now posted:perhaps we need a forum for discussing history I unironically tried this with a "Weekend Debate Club" topical thread, the idea was to get folks to dig deep into historical issues that are well-documented, the topic I chose was regarding Civil Rights as it was MLK Day weekend. It went okay but didn't get a lot of engagement.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:35
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honestly im kind of resigned to dnd being an awful place to post but i get really bent out of shape on the recent focus of aloofly debating whether or not queerphobia is cool and good that has been present as of late, but koos has made his position on that clear so what ya gonna do
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Jul 31, 2022 20:35
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Majorian posted:The problem is that you end up mainly with people who agree with one another one the issue, and there isn't much debate to be had. The point of a debate forum is at least in part to have debates. If your positions aren't at risk of being challenged or rebutted, what's the point of calling it a debate forum? I don't think this have ever been the case with an active topic thread. Topic threads that don't have debate turn into news threads which turn into dead threads or mock threads. If a topic can't support a thread maybe it's one of those stale topics that the rules refer to. But don't most people agree with each other in CSPAM (in that it's a sub-forum with a broad ideological position)? I don't see a lot of dead threads there.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:35
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A big flaming stink posted:honestly im kind of resigned to dnd being an awful place to post but i get really bent out of shape on the recent focus of aloofly debating whether or not queerphobia is cool and good that has been present as of late, but koos has made his position on that clear so what ya gonna do Is this related to that Monkeypox thing?.is there a link to that each story I hear about it sounds more exaggerated then the last I'd like to see it for myself.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:37
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Herstory Begins Now posted:perhaps we need a forum for discussing history And hell, one for Herstory.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:38
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Fritz the Horse posted:I unironically tried this with a "Weekend Debate Club" topical thread, the idea was to get folks to dig deep into historical issues that are well-documented, the topic I chose was regarding Civil Rights as it was MLK Day weekend. It went okay but didn't get a lot of engagement. history forum, not history thread
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Jul 31, 2022 20:38
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not trying to spam this, i won't bring it up again, but i did want to make sure it didn't get lost in the pressStringent posted:the china thread needs an ik and i think ronya would be the best (only) candidate
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Jul 31, 2022 20:39
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socialsecurity posted:That's just not true though, I disagree with the disreputabledog on everything he says but he typically tries to make a current or fresh point. I'm fine with people posting about new ways the Dems suck or some poo poo bill they did or didn't pass what is stifling to discussion is people wanting to relitigate 2008 dem majority didn't pass enough or trump is all Hilarious fault endlessly etc. This is why I feel the stale argument rule is good because otherwise news/events threada get bogged down in the same stupid slapfights. I mean it's fair to say that the Dems are *still* hurting lefties for no reason, however I have yet to hear a good reason as to why separating this issue into a thread would be containment. Other issues, like Jan 6, Gun Control, Immigration, SCOTUS are all still unsettled debates, they all have their threads, and nobody deems them to be containment. Why would the state of the dems be any different? Majorian mentioned it would end up with people on one side of the debate being alone there. Is it because people don't want to be challenged? Or is it because most people don't want to interact with the other side of that debate for some reason? Or is it because most people simply don't care? Whichever it is, does it really justify letting it take over the main thread over and over? World Famous W posted:it's kinda funny that there are posters saying 'there are posters who just want to yell at others for not agreeing with em' and immediately follow that by complaining about their political beliefs Fair enough!
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Jul 31, 2022 20:39
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Stringent posted:not trying to spam this, i won't bring it up again, but i did want to make sure it didn't get lost in the press It has been noted and brought up for an internal discussion by Fritz already. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jul 31, 2022 |
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Jul 31, 2022 20:42
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cinci zoo sniper posted:It was been noted and brought up for an internal discussion by Fritz already. 
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Jul 31, 2022 20:42
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Gros Tarla posted:Majorian mentioned it would end up with people on one side of the debate being alone there. Is it because people don't want to be challenged? Or is it because most people don't want to interact with the other side of that debate for some reason? Or is it because most people simply don't care? Whichever it is, does it really justify letting it take over the main thread over and over? To be clear, you seem to be advocating for viewpoint oriented discrimination in the main thread for talking about current events because somehow when something you disagree with is posted there you are 'forced' to interact with it and it 'takes over' so as long and as there's another thread somewhere you don't have to read it's justified to do this. There's a regular pattern of threads withering as they got silo'd off. Posters who think "but we need cops" want to post that once in the police discussion thread, strawman a bit, then leave until the next time cop murders start "derailing" current events with discussions of what to do about it. A lot of D&D threads are pretty much going dark. No climate news gets posted in climate change yet there's lots of it every day.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:47
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Koos Group posted:And hell, one for Herstory. 
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Jul 31, 2022 20:47
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World Famous W posted:it's kinda funny that there are posters saying 'there are posters who just want to yell at others for not agreeing with em' and immediately follow that by complaining about their political beliefs I'm not sure I follow the gotcha here. The people complaining about posters who just want to yell at other who disagree with them, are presumably annoyed with having to hear about the political beliefs of the posters doing the yelling for the Nth time. That seems pretty self-evident to me.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:49
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socialsecurity posted:Is this related to that Monkeypox thing?.is there a link to that each story I hear about it sounds more exaggerated then the last I'd like to see it for myself. the last time we had one of these koos went hard on defending earnest questions about whether or not trans femmes should be allowed to compete in sports, and this was a followup on the monkeypox comment from walensky, yeah.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:52
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Harold Fjord posted:To be clear, you seem to be advocating for viewpoint oriented discrimination in the main thread for talking about current events because somehow when something you disagree with is posted there you are 'forced' to interact with it and it 'takes over' so as long and as there's another thread somewhere you don't have to read it's justified to do this. DND threads aren't "dying" and not every forum needs to have threads that move at 1000+ pph, most of which are people going "lmao." Instead of complaining that no one wants to talk about all the new climate news in the climate change thread, why don't you go there and post it? have no idea how people keep up with the thread paces in cspam. There's a few threads I enjoy but due to the nature of my sporadic browsing, I am seeing maybe 200 out of every 2000 posts. It's okay and even good for DND to be slower in contrast. There is no need for USCE to be an unwieldy clusterfuck of deep into the weeds discussions that could easily be taken to a thread with a more specific focus, or create one if none exists. On the other hand, if anyone wants to get deep into weed discussion, I am all for it.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:54
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Jarmak posted:I'm not sure I follow the gotcha here. The people complaining about posters who just want to yell at other who disagree with them, are presumably annoyed with having to hear about the political beliefs of the posters doing the yelling for the Nth time.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:55
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Harold Fjord posted:To be clear, you seem to be advocating for viewpoint oriented discrimination in the main thread for talking about current events because somehow when something you disagree with is posted there you are 'forced' to interact with it and it 'takes over' so as long and as there's another thread somewhere you don't have to read it's justified to do this. I think you are unfairly conflating disinterest with disagreement. Threads withering away from disinterest seems to be fine. Sometime people simply aren't interested in discussing something. If there is new news then nothing prevents you from posting that news in a dedicated thread and seeing if people want to discuss it. You could even make a new thread on a specific topic! Amazon deforestation is obviously intertwined with climate change but could easily support a thread on its own due to other interweaving factors.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:56
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if anything d&d refuses to die
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Jul 31, 2022 20:57
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Harold Fjord posted:To be clear, you seem to be advocating for viewpoint oriented discrimination in the main thread for talking about current events because somehow when something you disagree with is posted there you are 'forced' to interact with it and it 'takes over' so as long and as there's another thread somewhere you don't have to read it's justified to do this. I'm advocating for a thread where that debate can be structured a bit. Many people here have mentioned how important that issue is, how harmful it is to a lot of people to ignore it, and how many people were looking forward to discussing it. The current approach of bringing it back to USCE clearly leaves everyone unsatisfied: on the one hand, people that don't want to discuss it get mad it keeps getting brought up, and the people that want to discuss it are mad that people are ignoring it. And it all usually devolves into a screaming match and a whole bunch of people getting probed, on both sides of the question. Nobody wins, except those that enjoy thread making GBS threads, because that's what it always ends up turning into. And I'm not blaming one side or the other here. It's just bad faith, snarky bullshit all around. I just don't understand why putting that question into its own thread would be containment, or viewpoint oriented discrimination. The reason that question remains unsettled is that nothing on that topic has been productive within USCE, or USPOL. What's wrong with trying something else? Now, you mention that other topics are going dark. I get you, but there's a finite amount of people posting, a finite amount of time to post and an infinite amount of topics to discuss. It seems normal that thread activity would fluctuate over time with all the poo poo going on. Hell, even USCE has been fairly quiet lately. I don't think it invalidates the creation of threads, unless one is really obsessing over something and needs a constant flow of posts on that specific topic to exist at any given time for them to consume, but that would probably be fairly unhealthy. Gros Tarla fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jul 31, 2022 |
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Jul 31, 2022 21:00
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Professor Beetus posted:DND threads aren't "dying" and not every forum needs to have threads that move at 1000+ pph, most of which are people going "lmao." Instead of complaining that no one wants to talk about all the new climate news in the climate change thread, why don't you go there and post it? have no idea how people keep up with the thread paces in cspam. There's a few threads I enjoy but due to the nature of my sporadic browsing, I am seeing maybe 200 out of every 2000 posts. It's okay and even good for DND to be slower in contrast. There is no need for USCE to be an unwieldy clusterfuck of deep into the weeds discussions that could easily be taken to a thread with a more specific focus, or create one if none exists. One other thing I forgot to add here, Dems bad discussion is totally fine anyway! If you see some bad thing that is new or notable to point out in the thread, go ahead, post it. But here are a couple caveats: since the dnd threads are so "dead," please go back 3-4 pages and make sure that you're not posting something that's already been posted and discussed. It leads to circular arguments that can then come across as tired because they happen 3-4 times in a row. This is another reason it's good to have threads that don't move at such a breakneck pace, because they encourage people to keep up with the thread rather than just popping in to shitpost. Which leads me to my last point for the moment: it's okay to lurk too. I am not as well informed or smart as some of the posters I like to read here. I chime in with commentary or make dumb jokes as I see fit, but I'm 99% sure I post less than nearly any other DND moderator on the site, with the possible exception of Vilerat. I like to read thorough, detailed posts on subjects I'd like to know about. People going back and forth endlessly with "I disagree and anyone who disagrees with me is a fascist/nazi etc," which is obnoxious and performative.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:04
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speaking of, if any of you have archives and some spare time it's well worth reading through 2003 era dnd posts about iraq
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Jul 31, 2022 21:07
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A big flaming stink posted:the last time we had one of these koos went hard on defending earnest questions about whether or not trans femmes should be allowed to compete in sports, and this was a followup on the monkeypox comment from walensky, yeah. yep, the stated position and intent behind the current ruleset and moderation environment is that bigotry is fine as long as you have something you consider to be an argument for it; if you're trans or gay it's permissible to assert and/or imply you are a groomer and possibly monkeypox vector - in defense of koos and the mod team here, this lines up ideologically with what the democrats stand for as a party. the fact that i personally find it to be inhuman and morally abhorrent has no affect on either the democratic party or the mod staff. so I really see no reason for me to engage further with either. c'est la vie.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:08
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World Famous W posted:if you can't see why complaining about something and then doing just that in the same breath aint funny, I don't know what to tell you Ahh, so you just fundamentally fail to understand the complaint. The issue is not whether disagreeing with people is okay, it's whether you should be able to turn any thread into a thread about your pet issue because people are sick of hearing about it and don't want to come to your thread on the topic. Engaging someone on a topic that they were literally the ones to bring up is not an example of that.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:08
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Re: forum dying, the "users browsing" is consistently around 300 during peak posting hours and drops to around 100 late at night. It's been like that for at least the last year, year and a half. Readership went up massively when the Ukraine war first started, we actually had more viewers than CSPAM for a few weeks (>1000). It will also increase with election seasons, particularly presidential elections. Last December I crunched some numbers on USPol/US CE threads as far back on the active forums as I could go. Here is the general pattern: Pre-Trump and 2016 election, threads are about the same pace they are today. 2015 primaries and Trump election, absolutely massive surge in readership to the point that the main US Politics thread was getting 2,000 posts per day. CSPAM is created. Through 2020 readership gradually slows and currently we're back to about the same activity as D&D had pre-Trump. My interpretation of that is Trump and the 2016 election kind of crack-pinged a lot of SA users who previously weren't all that engaged in politics posting. It "broke" D&D in a sense and spawned CSPAM. Now we're reverting to the mean, more or less. edit: I should also say, not only did Trump/2016 cause a surge in posting, the most-active posters also turned over. Pre- and post-2016 D&D have quite a different set of most-active posters. I think this supports my notion that Trump/2016 election got a ton of SA users interested in politics that weren't very engaged before. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jul 31, 2022 |
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Jul 31, 2022 21:09
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the idea that siloing off to other threads stifles things is silly. Much of it can be attributed to the discussion reaching its conclusion, either from interest waning, or the topic not having anything new to actually add. You can only keep rehashing the same story so much before it becomes redundant, and many times that actually is what happens, the interest in it wanes and people move onto the new flashpoint. The idea of branching out topics is sound, it can allow the focus to be on that topic and let people discuss it, instead of it getting mixed into a fast moving thread that can result in people getting confused on the topic, or taking something as offense because they dont know the background of the topic. I don't think the idea that the mods stifle anything is the point that needs to be taken, and Beetus hits the nail pretty well. DND not having 1000 pages threads that grow at 20 pages an hour is good, and also helps to prevent some weird poo poo from getting missed that can fester or be uh, gross as gently caress (remember the old games done quick chat thread?) DnD doesn't need to or should emulate the loose posting of cspam, it already exists. And koos, you brought up that DnD used to be and should be for helping to increase knowledge of topics and provide info, that really is what DnD was at its basis and what always was a big draw. The presidents thread still is one of the best threads we have had here in a long time and is an example of how good DnD can be on some topics.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:11
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Main Paineframe posted:
No not really, you've either misread one or both if them if that's what you got from it. Maybe I wasn't clear but my feedback is not that I want heavier handed modding. It's heavy handed enough already. My feedback is that there are a couple of rules that are vague and frankly bad and impossible to enforce consistently. And sure enough enforcement is haphazard and arbitrary, you don't have to look too hard to find posts that break them aren't aren't punished even in threads mods actively post in. If these rules are so beneficial why aren't they being enforced, if enforcement isn't necessary in most cases, then the rule should be reevaluated. So far the only answers from mods about this inconsistency is that we all need to go through and report all those posts so they can hand down a bunch of probes consistently and evenhandedly. That would probably work. It would also probably be awful for everyone mods included. Perhaps it would be better to drop the rule or majorly rework it rather than blame posters for haphazard enforcement and tell us all to be hall monitors about it. I hope that was more clear. I also hope my feedback hasn't come across too negative, I've pretty much only talked about a couple of rules that I think are bad, but that's only because everything else is mostly fine, so take it as a compliment that this is the only major criticism I have. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jul 31, 2022 |
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Jul 31, 2022 21:15
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Jarmak posted:Ahh, so you just fundamentally fail to understand the complaint. The issue is not whether disagreeing with people is okay, it's whether you should be able to turn any thread into a thread about your pet issue because people are sick of hearing about it and don't want to come to your thread on the topic.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:16
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Jarmak posted:Ahh, so you just fundamentally fail to understand the complaint. The issue is not whether disagreeing with people is okay, it's whether you should be able to turn any thread into a thread about your pet issue because people are sick of hearing about it and don't want to come to your thread on the topic. you are just misreading a pronoun World Famous W posted:it's kinda funny that there are posters saying 'there are posters who just want to yell at others for not agreeing with em' and immediately follow that by complaining about their political beliefs "their" means the complainers, not the yellers
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Jul 31, 2022 21:16
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Harold Fjord posted:A lot of D&D threads are pretty much going dark. No climate news gets posted in climate change yet there's lots of it every day. The Biosphere Collapse thread in cspam is consistently one of the best threads on the forums, check it out if you haven't. It's dark and super pessimistic, which is the sober and honest way to be at this point.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:26
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World Famous W posted:Lol, I understand you fine, still find the pot complaining about the kettle funny That's not what's happening, that is the point. This is a dumb "being intolerant of my intolerance makes you the intolerant one"-style gotcha. XboxPants posted:you are just misreading a pronoun Not misreading anything. Poster is trying to play a game where acknowledging the yeller's political beliefs with a negative framing is the exact same thing as the yellers bringing it up in every thread they post in regardless of its topical proximity.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:27
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Jarmak posted:Poster is trying to play a game where acknowledging the yeller's political beliefs with a negative framing is the exact same thing as the yellers bringing it up in every thread they post in regardless of its topical proximity. bronze this.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:29
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Jarmak posted:That's not what's happening, that is the point. This is a dumb "being intolerant of my intolerance makes you the intolerant one"-style gotcha. People posting different political opinions isn't you bring intolerant of intolerance. You really are exactly the thing you're describing dude.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:36
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Gumball Gumption posted:People posting different political opinions isn't you bring intolerant of intolerance. You really are exactly the thing you're describing dude. That's not what I'm describing.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:41
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