Total Warhammer 3: Call a Jade Wizard... but not for me!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Total Warhammer 3: Call a Jade Wizard... but not for me!

Gonkish: May 19, 2004

Third World Reagan posted:

We need an arghy lets play.

Steam -> Warhams -> Workshop -> Search "make Grimgrog less mean" -> download all mods to make Grimgrog less mean -> crash -> Workshop -> Search "make Dwarves more betterer" -> download all mods to make dwarves more betterer -> crash -> repeat.

Done.

Also, Tuesday cannot come soon enough, we're running out of Arghy-isms. The well is dry. We need Vilitch, CA. We need him.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 03:06

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 11:35

Jamwad Hilder: Apr 18, 2007; surfin usa

toasterwarrior posted:

Legit hate how people never do this and instead just complain about bad replenishment. Hire new dudes, FFS, it's not like you'll be starving for cash if you're still winning fights thanks to post-battle loot

I can understand not wanting to merge expensive/rarer units that cost a lot assuming you're low on cash and/or not in home territory, or units that have a lot of experience (gold chevrons), but generally speaking there's no reason not to merge the low/mid tier stuff and recruit new guys 90% of the time. With the right tech/items/buildings it's not uncommon to be recruiting units that start with more experience chevrons relatively early in a campaign too.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 03:09

TaintedBalance: Dec 21, 2006; hope, n: desire accompanied by expectation of or belief in fulfilment

Jamwad Hilder posted:

I can understand not wanting to merge expensive/rarer units that cost a lot assuming you're low on cash and/or not in home territory, or units that have a lot of experience (gold chevrons), but generally speaking there's no reason not to merge the low/mid tier stuff and recruit new guys 90% of the time. With the right tech/items/buildings it's not uncommon to be recruiting units that start with more experience chevrons relatively early in a campaign too.

I consistently forget how fast you can stack recruit buffs with certain factions until I really need to get some units going fast, I'm halfway through my careful merges to retain existing chevrons, then notice everyone i recruit is higher. "Wait, I start at silver 3? gently caress me, MASS DISBAND".

# ? Aug 1, 2022 03:18

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

TaintedBalance posted:

The major differences are reach, armor, and you're forgetting the fact that bloodletters have magic/fire attacks as well, which means they chew through a lot of earlier infantry better. I actually sort of think in fairness that swordmasters should be magical attack, especially since HE will actually be fighting a lot of demons. Hell, their weapons are by lore all magical and they're role is straight up hunting down the Cult of Excess and loving up Slaneesh/DElf cults in general. If they got that, then they'd be VERY similar.

High elves have all the lores of magic so in the course of a campaign you can easily give your swordmasters magic damage.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 03:24

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

DaysBefore posted:

The Dwarven start is so hard, I say, as I load up the Workshop and open palm slam the mod that adds a poorly-balanced Legendary Lord three turns away from my capital

The balance is fine, its just a skill issue.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 03:28

orangelex44: Oct 11, 2012; Definition of orange:

Any of a group of colors that are between red and yellow in hue. Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan, from Arabic, from Persian, from Sanskrit.

Definition of lex:

Law. Latin.

Gonkish posted:

Also, Tuesday cannot come soon enough, we're running out of Arghy-isms. The well is dry. We need Vilitch, CA. We need him.

On that note, do we think there will be any surprises on the extra Tuesday Newsday? Vilich on the 2nd and Valkia the 9th, with release on the 23rd that still leaves the 16th open... although it's most likely just going to be when streamers can start putting out campaign stuff.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 05:04

bob dobbs is dead: Oct 8, 2017; I love peeps; Nap Ghost

i bet itll be a teaser for valkia on the 9th and actual video on 16th

# ? Aug 1, 2022 05:05

Gonkish: May 19, 2004

bob dobbs is dead posted:

i bet itll be a teaser for valkia on the 9th and actual video on 16th

Yeah, I'm guessing CA itself will drop something like an IE map preview video on the 16th, and that (or around then) will likely also be when the content creators are allowed to go ham with the content to build hype.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 07:12

NoNotTheMindProbe: Aug 9, 2010; pony porn was here

Vizuyos posted:

Grinding infantry lines against each other and then waiting for five minutes for one unit to break (four minutes if you managed to flank one, three and a half minutes if you managed to full-on pincer one) is boring compared to blowing big holes in the lines with basically anything else

Back in the the day we would play the Europa Barbarorum mod for Rome and watch spearmanii grind up against each other for 20 minutes per battle and we liked it

# ? Aug 1, 2022 10:32

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

Back in the the day we would play the Europa Barbarorum mod for Rome and watch spearmanii grind up against each other for 20 minutes per battle and we liked it

EB1 was pretty cool though because they managed to balance units' moral stat to where if you managed to collapse one flank with a solid cavalry charge, the whole army would start to mass rout.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 11:14

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Jamwad Hilder posted:

I can understand not wanting to merge expensive/rarer units that cost a lot assuming you're low on cash and/or not in home territory, or units that have a lot of experience (gold chevrons), but generally speaking there's no reason not to merge the low/mid tier stuff and recruit new guys 90% of the time. With the right tech/items/buildings it's not uncommon to be recruiting units that start with more experience chevrons relatively early in a campaign too.

"Low on cash" should be a perpetual state of being for like the entire game until your economy is so solid that you're entering the steamroll phase. Early game sack income is good and important, but until you start stacking multipliers(which requires levels/ancillaries/tech) you'll be getting 5-10k from most sacks, which is good money but will get eaten up by either one or two buildings in your heartland or having to recruit like half a stack.

Like yeah, a lot of factions still need to merge/recruit to keep an offensive going, and it's important to know when to do it, but it's a significant financial drain that slows your building development a lot if you have to do it too much, compared to factions that have good replenishment who don't have to pay that tax. It's especially draining for factions that have poo poo access to sack multipliers and expensive units, like the dwarfs.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 11:22

ZearothK: Aug 25, 2008; I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

Back in the the day we would play the Europa Barbarorum mod for Rome and watch spearmanii grind up against each other for 20 minutes per battle and we liked it

Man, EB1 was legit awesome. I did one of my all time favorite TW campaigns in it as the Sab'ba.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 11:48

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Kanos posted:

Like yeah, a lot of factions still need to merge/recruit to keep an offensive going, and it's important to know when to do it, but it's a significant financial drain that slows your building development a lot if you have to do it too much, compared to factions that have good replenishment who don't have to pay that tax. It's especially draining for factions that have poo poo access to sack multipliers and expensive units, like the dwarfs.

Right but the other guy is complaining about how dwarf warriors (22 MA, 42 MD, 28 WS) get thrashed by skulkers (26 MA, 16 MD, 24 WS) in a straight up fight. Granted, the skulkers do have 1.6 times the models per unit, but they are also both more expensive and harder to get.

And they clearly dont get thrashed.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 12:32

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Ravenfood posted:

Right but the other guy is complaining about how dwarf warriors (22 MA, 42 MD, 28 WS) get thrashed by skulkers (26 MA, 16 MD, 24 WS) in a straight up fight. Granted, the skulkers do have 1.6 times the models per unit, but they are also both more expensive and harder to get.

And they clearly dont get thrashed.

Maybe arghy's jenga tower of mods is accidentally giving all greenskin units +50% to all stats.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 12:36

not a bot: Jan 9, 2019

Jeff the Mediocre posted:

I think they should remove the entire dwarf roster except for slayers and giant slayers.

Isn't giant slayer just a human?

# ? Aug 1, 2022 12:44

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Ravenfood posted:

Right but the other guy is complaining about how dwarf warriors (22 MA, 42 MD, 28 WS) get thrashed by skulkers (26 MA, 16 MD, 24 WS) in a straight up fight. Granted, the skulkers do have 1.6 times the models per unit, but they are also both more expensive and harder to get.

And they clearly dont get thrashed.

Don't try applying logic to arghy

# ? Aug 1, 2022 13:03

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Jamwad Hilder posted:

I can understand not wanting to merge expensive/rarer units that cost a lot assuming you're low on cash and/or not in home territory, or units that have a lot of experience (gold chevrons), but generally speaking there's no reason not to merge the low/mid tier stuff and recruit new guys 90% of the time. With the right tech/items/buildings it's not uncommon to be recruiting units that start with more experience chevrons relatively early in a campaign too.

What about when you cant re-recruit the stuff you merge because you literally cant yet (you started with those units or confederated them) or you cant re-recruit stuff because you cannot recruit it in the province your army is in? Global recruiting takes longer, is extra expensive, and you frequently get zero or no chevrons.

This is the second time this discussion got started in what feels like the past week and I think like things get conflated because people complain about slow replenishment early in the game, when you cant recruit high tier stuff, money is tight, and you're usually not in a province where you can recruit anything but poo poo tier 1 units because you're off campaigning. By mid game you can have some techs, skills, or items that help, but it is still sometimes not great. As Boris I'm not going to merge my two units of bears, as Katarin I'm not going to merge my two units of Ice Guard, and as Skarbrand I'm not going to merge my Blood Crushers because each of those take 75ish turns (unless you really focus growth) to be able to re-recruit. On top of that, each of those three units take two turns to recruit so it would be four turns to re-recruit them via global recruitment and probably more than that to march back to the province you can recruit them in, so yeah I need those units to be not-fielding mostly poo poo tier 1 units and want them to not be understrength for 10 turns if I take some losses in a tough fight. They're my capstone/flagship units but if they take losses I dont want to merge them then not have as many for however long it takes to get more, so I'm gonna want replenishment.

So yeah, re-recruiting is a viable option that is under-utilized, but its not a cure-all and should not be treated as such. The whole point of a campaign is to build up to be stronger and get more powerful units then fight battles with them, so when I get more powerful units I want to use them and not be punished for it and replenishment is the most convenient way to being able to keep using my fun units without needing to stop and re-recruit them.

AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Aug 1, 2022

# ? Aug 1, 2022 13:21

Muscle Tracer: Feb 23, 2007; Medals only weigh one down.

not a bot posted:

Isn't giant slayer just a human?

Giant-slayers, no. Giant slayers, sure.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 13:40

Whorelord: May 1, 2013; Jump into the well...

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

Back in the the day we would play the Europa Barbarorum mod for Rome and watch spearmanii grind up against each other for 20 minutes per battle and we liked it

I've been doing this with Divide Et Impera for Rome 2 and dear god I'm actually enjoying myself. My spearmanii have bows as well though which is cool.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 13:48

Tiler Kiwi: Feb 26, 2011

a large slayer is just an emo

# ? Aug 1, 2022 14:06

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

a large slayer is ME!!!

# ? Aug 1, 2022 14:16

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

Third World Reagan posted:

We need an arghy lets play.

mod challenge?

# ? Aug 1, 2022 14:25

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

do it, arghy

# ? Aug 1, 2022 14:42

TheLastRoboKy: May 2, 2009; Finishing the game with everyone else's continues

You know what you did, Arghy.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 14:56

DeathSandwich: Apr 24, 2008; I fucking hate puzzles.

While you guys were dunking on Arghy, CA released a blog with more details on the Warriors of chaos rework. https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-the-chaos-debate/

So what it looks like is:

- If you are playing one of the old warriors lords the mechanics are going to be different than the new ones. The old lords (even Sigvald) have access to the full pool of chaos undivided, the marks, and the unit ascension, but doing so incurs costs and the better upgrades are locked behind research. Sigvald has easier / cheaper access to Slaanesh upgrades.

- There is an animosity system at play that gets more severe as unit balance gets out of whack, increasing unit upkeep and reducing replenishment if you're on the wrong side of the scale (EX - if you drop a wizard or a mark of Slaanesh into a hard Khorne themed army life is going to suck for them). Archaeon largely gets to ignore this mechanic in his main army, because he is the chaos undivided guy. Looks like you are going to have Dieity specific theming on a per army basis, so you'll have the Nurgle army, the Khorne, the Tzeench, ect.

- Bel'Akor deals with all of the above, but also had access to a better pool of recruitable darmons.

- The new chaos lords are hard locked to Monogod. They only get the marks and units of their respective God, but they have significantly easier access to their gods gifts. No Nurgle sub army for Azazel like Sigvald can do, ect.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 15:28

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

Negative, check the date milord

# ? Aug 1, 2022 15:31

DeathSandwich: Apr 24, 2008; I fucking hate puzzles.

Dandywalken posted:

Negative, check the date milord

Pretty sure you guys were dunking on Arghy two or three days ago. The dunking on Arghy never stops.

DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Aug 1, 2022

# ? Aug 1, 2022 15:37

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

Dunking on arghy has been at least a year now

# ? Aug 1, 2022 15:41

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

While you were reading updates, I studied the dunk

# ? Aug 1, 2022 15:54

Alctel: Jan 16, 2004; I love snails

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

What about when you cant re-recruit the stuff you merge because you literally cant yet (you started with those units or confederated them) or you cant re-recruit stuff because you cannot recruit it in the province your army is in? Global recruiting takes longer, is extra expensive, and you frequently get zero or no chevrons.

This is the second time this discussion got started in what feels like the past week and I think like things get conflated because people complain about slow replenishment early in the game, when you cant recruit high tier stuff, money is tight, and you're usually not in a province where you can recruit anything but poo poo tier 1 units because you're off campaigning. By mid game you can have some techs, skills, or items that help, but it is still sometimes not great. As Boris I'm not going to merge my two units of bears, as Katarin I'm not going to merge my two units of Ice Guard, and as Skarbrand I'm not going to merge my Blood Crushers because each of those take 75ish turns (unless you really focus growth) to be able to re-recruit. On top of that, each of those three units take two turns to recruit so it would be four turns to re-recruit them via global recruitment and probably more than that to march back to the province you can recruit them in, so yeah I need those units to be not-fielding mostly poo poo tier 1 units and want them to not be understrength for 10 turns if I take some losses in a tough fight. They're my capstone/flagship units but if they take losses I dont want to merge them then not have as many for however long it takes to get more, so I'm gonna want replenishment.

So yeah, re-recruiting is a viable option that is under-utilized, but its not a cure-all and should not be treated as such. The whole point of a campaign is to build up to be stronger and get more powerful units then fight battles with them, so when I get more powerful units I want to use them and not be punished for it and replenishment is the most convenient way to being able to keep using my fun units without needing to stop and re-recruit them.

Well that's why you protect your good, irreplaceable units with chaff (also Kislev and khorne don't have a problem with replenishment at all)

# ? Aug 1, 2022 16:16

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Arghy posted:

Uh i'm not sure if you know this but green skin replenishment is way better than yours so as dawi if you've lost 50% of your unit then you'll be fighting a full strength greenskin army in a few turns while you'll be lucky to get back 10% of said unit. If you take massive casualties as in an unaided dwarf warrior vs a skulker that unit might as well have died because that AI army will replenish to full in a few turns so unless you can wipe it out to stop them from replenishing you're dead. I've had to restart multiple campaigns because of replenishment where 2 armies stay out of reach wearing your army down.

You have a really weird experience that does not at all match my experience playing dwarfs.

Like, I guess if you let enemies run away maybe you have problems but you can just... kill them. Like you kill the orcs and then they don't replen because they're dead. Then you take their poo poo and they can't build more orcs, then you use their gold mines to build more dwarfs, then you win.

# ? Aug 1, 2022 16:27