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Achmed Jones posted:i already wrote the signal received and part of a rubric entry for it above yes, and I just said there are safer questions that provide the same signal. why insist on asking a question that's going to have dangerous responses from almost anyone who has a family? the moment they say they don't have hobbies because they spend all their time with their kids, you've opened yourself up to liability. if you stick to work related topics, you can steer the conversation away from that poo poo.
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Aug 2, 2022 19:05
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the issue is that it can be an easy place for lovely bias to come in, as with all personal-ish questions. the solution is to either make a rubric or don't ask the question (but you need a rubric anyway so 🤷♀️)
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Aug 2, 2022 19:06
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nudgenudgetilt posted:i feel like there are two conversations going on. yeah I get that, was speaking to #1 with that post. for #2 I see that also. personally would just want some way to just shoot the poo poo with a candidate somehow but it's gotta be structured right? but I'm learning to interview right now so that may be off base.
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Aug 2, 2022 19:06
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nudgenudgetilt posted:yes, and I just said there are safer questions that provide the same signal. i mentioned the positive outcomes above. and i'm not insisting on asking, im saying that anybody with two brain cells that gives half a poo poo can make a rubric to mitigate the downsides
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Aug 2, 2022 19:08
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supabump posted:the question isn't "how do I handle being asked what my hobbies are waaah" the first thing is not in fact a given. I don't love it as a question but as long as it's evaluated reasonably (IE any answer which isn't inappropriate for a work place is good) then whatever. The best talent includes being good at making the workplace a safe, enjoyable place to be where your coworker isn't going to respond to innocuous questions in a disruptive or unfriendly manner. e: to be clear "I look after my kids" is a totally fine answer. If you're gonna mark people down for that then I don't think the question is the biggest problem.
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Aug 2, 2022 19:08
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Don't you think figuring out someone's personality might be good for a job? You work with people, wouldn't you want someone who isn't a weirdo working with you? the issue is you might be hiring for a position mostly just pushing code and branding an immigrant who doesn't speak English very well as a weirdo
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Aug 2, 2022 19:10
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being asked about your hobbies is a t-ball question designed to give you a topic you're knowledgeable about and interested in to see how you have a conversation in a non-work context. you literally pick what to discuss. You could talk about your love of the loving McDonald's value menu for all I care as long as you aren't some walking liability talking about how you go downtown trying to take upskirt pics or some poo poo
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Aug 2, 2022 19:12
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If the job you're hiring for doesn't have English as a requirement why am I interviewing them in english
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Aug 2, 2022 19:13
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people ITT being uncomfortable hiring people who don't think or act or speak the way they would in non-work contexts are making my point for me. if you really think things are better this way, that sucks for a whole lot of people and probably your own team too
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Aug 2, 2022 19:21
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the interview is a work context, and nudgenudgetilt got it right in like the first reply to what i said is this reframing it as an accent+racism thing? cause that's a separate conversation to this one but still another bias to be aware of
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Aug 2, 2022 19:24
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PokeJoe posted:to see how you have a conversation in a non-work context. but why is a non-work context relevant for work, like at all? aside from glaring liabilities ("i use meth on the weekend then rob banks"), why are you the least bit concerned about any non-work aspect of the interviewee?
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Aug 2, 2022 19:25
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Not all jobs are human machinery and many of them in fact require social interaction unrelated to the literal job itself
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Aug 2, 2022 19:27
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have you ever made small talk with a customer before
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Aug 2, 2022 19:29
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PokeJoe posted:Not all jobs are human machinery and many of them in fact require social interaction unrelated to the literal job itself can you provide an example of a situation where a computer toucher like those found round these parts would, as part of their job, be required to socially interact with others in a non-work context?
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Aug 2, 2022 19:29
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PokeJoe posted:have you ever made small talk with a customer before that is literally a work context i bet you think the barista thinks youre cute too
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Aug 2, 2022 19:30
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Share Bear posted:is this reframing it as an accent+racism thing? cause that's a separate conversation to this one but still another bias to be aware of For me, giving marginalized people fairer opportunities to represent themselves is always a thing to think about since it's one of the easiest and most important ways to improve the interview process. I agree it's a sharp turn to take in this conversation, but it's also a pretty big deal and I didn't want to leave it out.
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Aug 2, 2022 19:30
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nudgenudgetilt posted:that is literally a work context lmao
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Aug 2, 2022 19:30
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nudgenudgetilt posted:can you provide an example of a situation where a computer toucher like those found round these parts would, as part of their job, be required to socially interact with others in a non-work context? conferences and onsite high touch sales with toucher tagging along. usually you get whats called a 'sales engineer' (... lol) to do this poo poo and not bother peeps who actually make the stuff but this cant always be avoided
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Aug 2, 2022 19:31
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bob dobbs is dead posted:conferences and onsite sales with toucher tagging along these are all work contexts? interacting with people does not suddenly make it a non-work situation. computer touchers tagalongs do not talk about their hobbies at sales meetings sales people do not talk about their hobbies unless they think doing so is going to make a sale
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Aug 2, 2022 19:33
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if you think the meat of what goes on in a conference happens in the sessions, you have another one coming to you, lol. same w the onsite sales to be honest
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Aug 2, 2022 19:34
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nudgenudgetilt posted:these are all work contexts? interacting with people does not suddenly make it a non-work situation. lmfao
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Aug 2, 2022 19:35
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do you think people just talk about code all day at conferences? I'll give you a hint a full half of the people who go skip the conference and just get drunk and bullshit with each other and those people make faster and more fun business deals
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Aug 2, 2022 19:36
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I've spent more time talking about sailboats and hiking than computers in customer meetings where some client wants to talk to an engineer. It absolutely happens
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Aug 2, 2022 19:37
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supabump posted:the issue is you might be hiring for a position mostly just pushing code and branding an immigrant who doesn't speak English very well as a weirdo are you part of any of these groups? because as someone who is this sounds like a bunch of condescending bullshit to overcorrect for your own bias.
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Aug 2, 2022 20:04
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nudgenudgetilt posted:these are all work contexts? interacting with people does not suddenly make it a non-work situation. m8
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Aug 2, 2022 20:04
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i am definitely in the "i don't really share my personal life with my coworkers" camp, but being able to make small talk about what you did during the weekend, or something you are interested in is not a huge ask, it's just indicating that you're human. look, i might have spent all weekend at the nudist all male gay campground having a beer bash this weekend but that's very quickly going to be transformed into WENT HIKING WITH SOME FRIENDS IN THE WOODS, HOW ABOUT THE XFL STARTING UP AGAIN? on monday.
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Aug 2, 2022 20:20
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the hard resistance that some people are showing are demonstrative about why these questions are asked.
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Aug 2, 2022 20:21
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KidDynamite posted:are you part of any of these groups? because as someone who is this sounds like a bunch of condescending bullshit to overcorrect for your own bias.
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Aug 2, 2022 20:21
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the higher up the leadership ladder you go the more important people skills, knowing how to treat people as humans (not fungible code-generators) etc become. i dont necessarily mean management, either - im talking tech leadership
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Aug 2, 2022 20:21
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My favorite part about not sharing details of my personal life with my coworkers is when I get back from a memorial service and everybody asks me if I had fun on my vacation
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Aug 2, 2022 20:41
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KidDynamite posted:are you part of any of these groups? because as someone who is this sounds like a bunch of condescending bullshit to overcorrect for your own bias. I'm not, and I apologize if anything I said came off as condescending. However, I do a lot of work to improve this particular aspect of interviewing, recruiting, etc. and talk to a lot of people about their experiences as a part of that work. So I'm not talking out my rear end, and I'm not just trying to sell people on being inclusive for its own sake. We're nerds, so we A/B tested the process and found that a small but significant amount of real talent gets missed out on for reasons like this. supabump fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Aug 2, 2022 |
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Aug 2, 2022 20:42
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PokeJoe posted:it's basically: are you gonna make appropriate conversations in the office or are to gonna talk about your piss fetish in an interview. it's a pretty easy filter posting pals. just say you read the news in your industry (scroll yospos) and like to chat with your colleagues (poo poo post) i literally mentioned yospos in an interview once as an answer to this exact question. he made a face and said, 'so uh i've never heard of that' and i told him what it stood for. he grinned and we moved on with the interview about a week later he came up to me and said, 'so i checked out that yospos place it seems like their whole deal is switching between false bravado vs. actually providing useful and insightful commentary' i told him he understood it perfectly
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Aug 2, 2022 20:43
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Also weightlifting
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Aug 2, 2022 20:45
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lmao at the people who can't handle a softball question that amounts to "will you embarrass us if a normie talks to you"
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Aug 2, 2022 20:55
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I have both expensive sports hobbies popular with management and techy nerd hobbies so I can code switch based on the grooming standards of my interviewer.
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Aug 2, 2022 21:18
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I do the same when choosing between camping or 3-d printing as my go-to hobby
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Aug 2, 2022 21:23
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how do you a/b test an interview, give them a lobotomy and try agin?
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Aug 2, 2022 21:26
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ultravoices posted:how do you a/b test an interview, give them a lobotomy and try agin? Come in again with groucho marx glasses
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Aug 2, 2022 23:06
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nudgenudgetilt posted:these are all work contexts? interacting with people does not suddenly make it a non-work situation. brotherman, are you a robot?
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Aug 3, 2022 01:16
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Aug 3, 2022 01:24
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