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Cabbages and Kings posted:hey CSPAM parents, advice desperately needed about an increasingly aggressively obstinate 5.5 year old. Have been told by pediatrics that our concerns are valid and while this doesn't seem "super bad", a behavioral evaluation is encouraged. Also the waitlist for that is over a year, so, here we are. I don't really know what a 5 year old is like yet, but my two year old would have an impossibly hard time only thinking about long term rewards available in 5 minutes, much less hours later. I feel like that's a good tool for teaching delayed gratification, but not immediately dealing with line-crossing behavior. What do you try in the moment? Stern voiced warning? Time outs? Redirection? Asking them to think about others?
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Aug 1, 2022 13:56
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Cabbages and Kings posted:Any advice at all is loving appreciated, I'm gonna take this at face value and tell you that we recently discovered the wonders of a CBD gummy when parenting is getting stressful (we have a 9mo son, for reference). The stress just melts away and it allows us to approach problems in a more analytical manner. We're not at "unruly child" stage yet so can't give you any more advice than that from personal experience, but what we have been doing is watching episodes of supernanny on youtube, which often involves parents in your situation. Might be some pointers in there? (big time investment i know)
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Aug 1, 2022 14:20
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Oh actually i do have something more useful to add, having read a couple books (again, no personal experience... yet)Cabbages and Kings posted:As her sister has gotten bigger, more mobile, and of course more destructive, we've seen a lot of changes in the older kid. Some might be jealousy, also, It is almost certainly this. I doubt any kind of peer influence is playing a part, if behaviour outside the home is fine. She might restrain herself when interacting with her sister but she's probably specifically mad at you both for paying attention to her sister. Maybe she can't find the language to express it, or perhaps isn't even sure why she's feeling the way she's feeling and needs to be told ("we're playing with your sister instead of you all the time and you're angry about that") A book i read covered this kind of thing, I'll see if i can find it
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Aug 1, 2022 14:29
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have you screened for adhd? emotional regulation and impulsivity can be a problem with that and it can get worse starting at that age. edit: also might be worth checking for food/chemical triggers particularly dyes some European research has confirmed R40 and B6 can cause severe issues for some kids.
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Aug 1, 2022 20:12
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Elissimpark posted:This one? That's the one!
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Aug 1, 2022 20:14
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outside of preschool how isolated are you pandemic wise?
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Aug 1, 2022 20:15
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New parent here to a just-turned-34-weeker diagnosed with NEC. NICUs are simultaneously miraculous places full of actual, scrub-wearing angels and also a very specific kind of hell. I can't believe we've only been at this for 5 days.
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Aug 1, 2022 20:38
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I'm so sorry. My sister was in the neonatal ward with my niece, which is nowhere near as bad, but still utterly terrifying.
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Aug 1, 2022 20:44
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Cabbages and Kings posted:hey CSPAM parents, advice desperately needed about an increasingly aggressively obstinate 5.5 year old. Have been told by pediatrics that our concerns are valid and while this doesn't seem "super bad", a behavioral evaluation is encouraged. Also the waitlist for that is over a year, so, here we are. FULL DISCLOSURE: This is what I do for the public school system here, so I cannot offer specific strategies without running into an ethics violation, sorry. And to be honest it probably wouldn't work because it's a trial and error type thing. Don't beat yourself up! Everything you have posted is SUPER loving COMMON right now. I think it's because of the disruption caused by covid. I had almost a dozen behavior referrals within the first month of the school year starting. You mentioned that there is a wait list for the behavior assessment, but when does she start kindergarten? You should be able to get an assessment done through the public school system. The assessment you get from pediatrics will be more detailed, but the school psychologist might be able to make some recommendations. Have you asked the preschool teacher how they do it in the room? If the aggression and defiance aren't happening in the classroom, maybe the teacher can give you some insight. Worst case is they'll just say something like "we don't know because it's never happened." Which is good! Just not helpful. gently caress man I wish I had more to say. The good news is that of all the referrals I got at the start of the year, it was the kids whose parents are doing the stuff you're doing (I thought the chart was cute) that made progress.
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Aug 1, 2022 21:01
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Today I asked my kid if he needed to use the potty and he looked me dead in the eyes and said no, and immediately poo poo his pants. cool flex I guess
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Aug 1, 2022 21:06
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lobster shirt posted:feeling a lot more nervous about getting these anatomy ultrasound results today than i was over the weekend. really hope everything is good news! i'm sure it will be. but we do live in texas so a bad result could be pretty difficult to deal with. keeping those fingers crossed. got the anatomy ultrasound results, most looks good but the fetus has a marginal cord insertion so that is a little concerning, hopefully its all fine though
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Aug 1, 2022 21:47
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Greg Legg posted:You should be able to get an assessment done through the public school system. The assessment you get from pediatrics will be more detailed, but the school psychologist might be able to make some recommendations. just went through this process and it can be super stressful too. the pandemic took a lot away from kids. I think back about the scope of the social interactions my son lost and how angry he got is justified. having a learning difference just amplified all the problems. it can get better but it’s hard work and huge emotional toll.
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Aug 1, 2022 22:03
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kecske posted:Today I asked my kid if he needed to use the potty and he looked me dead in the eyes and said no, and immediately poo poo his pants. cool flex I guess chad
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Aug 1, 2022 22:53
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Bar Ran Dun posted:just went through this process and it can be super stressful too. Oh yeah, I can't imagine what it's like for the parents at these meetings and I get frustrated with my colleagues for not considering how difficult it might be. I am not a covid minimizer by any means, but when we closed the schools, did nothing to stop the virus, and then just reopened like nothing happened we completely hosed these kids. We sent our oldest back to school as soon as we could because the social part is so critical. It's really frustrating and I am sorry.
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Aug 2, 2022 13:02
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yeah i won't weigh in on whether it did or didnt help slow the virus or what the real risk/reward was from a public health perspective, and it may well have been worth the damage that was done idk, but anyone with a school age kid will have seen firsthand that, regardless, it hosed them up badly. and just like long covid it may be years before we really understood what happened/is happening, and what the real effects are/will be.
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Aug 2, 2022 13:12
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Thanks everyone --- in no particular order:Greg Legg posted:Don't beat yourself up! Everything you have posted is SUPER loving COMMON right now. I think it's because of the disruption caused by covid. I had almost a dozen behavior referrals within the first month of the school year starting. quote:You mentioned that there is a wait list for the behavior assessment, but when does she start kindergarten? You should be able to get an assessment done through the public school system. quote:gently caress man I wish I had more to say. The good news is that of all the referrals I got at the start of the year, it was the kids whose parents are doing the stuff you're doing (I thought the chart was cute) that made progress. This is both reassuring, and also somewhat alarming because the concept of her not being able to make progress on this stuff hadn't really crossed my mind, but, of course it exists as some nonzero thing. Iridium posted:yeah i won't weigh in on whether it did or didnt help slow the virus or what the real risk/reward was from a public health perspective, and it may well have been worth the damage that was done idk, but anyone with a school age kid will have seen firsthand that, regardless, it hosed them up badly. Bar Ran Dun posted:just went through this process and it can be super stressful too. Do you mind elaborating just so I know what to be prepared for? Bar Ran Dun posted:outside of preschool how isolated are you pandemic wise? More or less, we decided pretty early on that keeping her as socialized as possible was our #1 priority and the only thing we were willing to waver from pretty hardcore COVID protocols on. This didn't mean sending her into unmaksed wee kid parties, but it did mean that even though we skipped halloween 2020* we did it in 2021 and did a number of other things for the sake of socializing kiddo, which we would not have done for our own sake. I will certainly admit we feel isolated and somewhat despondent and anxious about the state of America (more nationally than locally, for now), and I have to assume kiddo is smart enough to be picking up on that nervous energy. Wife and I are both in therapy to try to deal with our own poo poo as well as possible through all of this; our therapists as well as pediatrician think we're basically doing everything we can. *We didn't "skip" halloween, as much as, I set up a spooky LED-candle lit walk around our property withj some built in jump scares, and then her best friend came over and they walked the path with the moms while the other dad and I moved along from jump-scare station to jump-scare station, doing things like dragging heavy chains along the barn ceiling as they walked through, popping up in masks, etc. We had "candy station" and both girls liked it a lot and actually it was a cool enough thing that I thought "wow a bit more work and a little licensing and I could just charge for this as a Haunted Woodswalk". But, of course that's another project that died in my mind, given life's reality right now. Microplastics posted:It is almost certainly this. I doubt any kind of peer influence is playing a part, if behaviour outside the home is fine. I tend to agree, and, I have approached this with the following messaging more or less: "Whatever you feel is okay, even if it's painful, it's just how you feel and that's normal and we can't always control it. We do have some control over how we act, and when you feel really bad, if you can talk to us about it or draw about it or go play outside about it, that's a good response. Hitting us or throwing things is a bad response". I think I mentioned I do meditation and yoga with her pretty regularly and the kid can just sit still and apparantly watch her breath for 5-15 mins depending on the day. If she ever connects that to the way she instantly freaks out about circumstances changing slightly I think it will be a lightbulb moment for her, but, all I can do is sort of paint the door as bright as possible. When we're actually meditating, if something awful happens like her sister comes along and pulls her hair.... she's still usually able to just recenter, "remember, we're just focusing on breath, tuning out distractions is good so lets just think of your sister as a REALLY DISTRACTING THING". Zero problems with her on the meditation mat or the yoga mat afterwards. Stuff can deteriorate pretty fast after, though! ikanreed posted:What do you try in the moment? Stern voiced warning? Time outs? Redirection? Asking them to think about others? When she is really in the thick of it she can't be reasoned with. If she will walk to a timeout in her room on her own, she's allowed to take whatever toys she wants with her. If she pushes things to the point where I have to simply pick her up as gently as possible and carry her screaming to her room, then she goes with whatever toys are already there. This has about a 50% hit rate of causing her to self-recuse before being carried. As soon as she calms down and stops screaming I try to approach her gently, make it clear I am not mad but I am sad she's so unhappy and that I'd really like to try to understand why; to the extent she knows, sometimes she says things that make sense ("I am mad at my sister, she hit me! I am mad that I am not allowed to play video games!") and sometimes she either doesn't know or says things that don't track like "because I love you", "because it's funny", etc. I do then remind her about other people, I reminded her she's loved and her mom and I will never hit her back no matter how much she misbehaves but we really want to help her find better habits, and also express sympathy and empathy that she must be feeling pretty bad and confused to act like this, and, again, that's just how she feels and even if it sucks, it's fundamentally okay. I try not to raise my voice or be commanding and intimidating. I am not always good at this. My own father who I love very much did the same thing, I think to a greater extent, and by all accounts his dad was a right bastard who would really, really do the same thing in a toxic way -- his dad was a bastard hypercapitalist, and HIS dad was a right bastard who had like 3 different families he kept abandoing. I think there's a karmic trickle down here and each successive generation has been somewhat less of a right bastard.... but the tendency is far from extinguished. I am never threatening but a couple times when stuff has just been totally beyond the pale I have said pretty inappropriate stuff like "what in the name of holy gently caress are you doing?!" Iridium posted:and just like long covid it may be years before we really understood what happened/is happening, and what the real effects are/will be. I think by the time we have that data we're going to be more concerned with "NYT OP-ED: COVERAGE OF THE ONGOING CENTRAL AMERICAN "WATER WARS" WHICH ARE NOW "SPIRALING" INTO THE TEXAN REPUBLIC ARE HIGHLY DISTURBING TO YOUTH, MEDIA NEEDS TO TONE DOWN HYPERBOLE IN COVER OF THESE MILD HYDRATION RELATED DISAGREEMENTS" by Monica Ghandi.   We're also trying to address this by spending more 1:1 time with her. I have a trip out of town this week for a dr's consult and decided to bring her (after clearing it with dr, she'll just need to sit there quietly in a mask with a video game during the appt) and then the next day we're going to go to the Worcester Ecotarium together before we head back home. (I told her I think that's where we learn how to be EcoTerrorists, which got me a black look from my wife, I need to read less CSPAM before breakfast). Likewise my wife has taken her on some day trips, and might do an overnight with her. It would be real nice if we could stick kid sister somewhere for 24-48hrs and do a 3-of-us trip or staycation, and that should eventually be possible, we are at a point where we have to find childcare options for the younger kid, but god drat is everyone slammed around here, if I could stomach the thought and liability I'd open a daycare. Cabbages and VHS has issued a correction as of 14:12 on Aug 2, 2022 |
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Aug 2, 2022 13:56
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Cabbages and Kings posted:... I am of two minds about this in my parenting. I think there are situations where being mad and assertive and letting the kid know you are mad is appropriate and probably for the best. Generally I reserve this approach for when their safety or the safety of others is in danger (which may apply to your situation), and it can snap them out of their coy silliness/obtuse helplessness, and bring them back to reality where they know something is wrong and they are able to communicate with you. Obviously if there is a cycle of abuse and you want to avoid that it brings a whole lot of other factors into the mix so this isn't necessarily advice or anything just something I am thinking through. My general thought is if you are *never* mad or loud how can they know when something is actually very serious/dangerous as opposed to more gentle run of the mill attitude or behavior course corrections. Like I said, still thinking through this
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Aug 2, 2022 14:28
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AxGrap posted:I am of two minds about this in my parenting. I think there are situations where being mad and assertive and letting the kid know you are mad is appropriate and probably for the best. Generally I reserve this approach for when their safety or the safety of others is in danger (which may apply to your situation), and it can snap them out of their coy silliness/obtuse helplessness, and bring them back to reality where they know something is wrong and they are able to communicate with you. The other day when we had a get together on my street, my son was tired, hit his knee and started being hysterical that he needed to have it washed before he could play with the other kids. I was carrying his little brother and couldn't keep up to grab him before he went into the street, so I shouted at him, which was when he finally snapped back to reality. Wasn't particularly fun or a proud parenting moment, but I think you're right that it's ok to see that your parents can get upset with you.
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Aug 2, 2022 14:44
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Struensee posted:The other day when we had a get together on my street, my son was tired, hit his knee and started being hysterical that he needed to have it washed before he could play with the other kids. I was carrying his little brother and couldn't keep up to grab him before he went into the street, so I shouted at him, which was when he finally snapped back to reality. Wasn't particularly fun or a proud parenting moment, but I think you're right that it's ok to see that your parents can get upset with you. Also when someone else's safety is out at risk, or violence is used to lash out, the first thing I do sometimes is separate them and communicate "this is not acceptable" with some bass in my voice before we can delve into motivations. I'm not big mad often so sometimes it can scare the kid, but I think it may be worth it to express the gravity of the situation. I've also had friends who somehow have done very well with a gentle only approach, and some who have had good luck with strict and quick discipline, and some who ignore problematic behavior until it settles down before addressing it so there is def not one best way imo, just the best one for your combined personalities that gets the best results with the least damage. Uff this poo poo is hard lol
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Aug 2, 2022 15:05
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AxGrap posted:My general thought is if you are *never* mad or loud how can they know when something is actually very serious/dangerous as opposed to more gentle run of the mill attitude or behavior course corrections. My wife was scared I was going to throw the phone at her, or something equally unhinged. To me, there's just no world where that happens, I take poo poo out on myself and I would have gone to another room and started punching the wall until I broke my thin rear end bones, but I would never raise a hand to her or the kids. At the same time, I think she's a highly thoughtful and rational person, and so if in that moment she felt like her safety was at risk, that makes me feel super lovely and also makes me think I am projecting a level of toxicity and anger in those moments which I must learn to do a better job handling. I do remember my dad during an argument with my mom just outright throwing his cereal bowl into the ground, at his feet. IIRC, It was either a Richard Batterham bowl which he deeply loved, or one he had made himself (he was a potter), so I see a sort of similar act of "physical rage manifests as a self-sabotaging act which also scares the living hell out of anyone in the vicinity". My dad did not do this poo poo very much at all, but I think I probably remember every time it happened in some detail. We're talking 5-6 events over the 18 years I lived there, but obviously that poo poo sunk in, and obviously I carry that same toxic tendency to become unable to internalize. The hard part for us is I can feel this coming on and my gut instinct is always to flee which usually works fine, and then we both calm down and we can talk about whatever was really going on over the next few days. Where I get kind of crazy is if I feel "pinned down", as in, I am desperately trying to flee a situation before it escalates, and my partner sometimes becomes obsessed with "we have to solve this NOW or we'll never want to work through it". I am sympathetic to that, it's loving HARD to come back to something lovely a day later when everything feels better. But to me, that's the work to do, because I don't think trying to process stuff when we're both so worked up that I am trying to leave the room before I smash my phone, is healthy. Yes, I talk about all this with my therapist. I think I've actually made substantial progress on my anger issues over the years but also the world is getting hotter (literally, and politically) around me and so it's like a mad game of keeping pace and trying to fortify my coping mechanisms ever more against an ever more stressful world. God knows what poo poo will be like when my kids are my age, which is one reason I am so gung ho to teach them some meditation now. But, I am 100% doing this from the perspective of "this helps build good mental discipline that can benefit you in all areas of your life" and not as some alarmist thing -- in fact the idea of doing this occurred to me long before I had my big  moments on climate etc, simply because I speculate that if my own parents had done this it might have made my teen years better.
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Aug 2, 2022 15:08
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Baby takes their first steps and starts c walking across the house i keep a poop flag hanging out the left side
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Aug 2, 2022 18:47
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Greg Legg posted:It's really frustrating and I am sorry. that means an awful lot and is appreciated. Cabbages and Kings posted:Do you mind elaborating just so I know what to be prepared for? different categories can create very different perceptions of your child. you have to qualify under certain special Ed categories to get help beyond a 504 plan. some of the categories have reputations. be prepared to tell them things and then they don’t listen, then they do the assessments and they tell you the things you already told them. insist on a full evaluation. do your homework before starting the process and know what you need. unrelated stress and burnout are real bastards we had to change our situation, sold a condo moved into an apartment for a year , changed schools (in the same district) bought a house. you might need radical changes to get rid of the stress. Bar Ran Dun has issued a correction as of 03:44 on Aug 3, 2022 |
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Aug 3, 2022 03:36
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Cabbages and Kings posted:Thanks everyone --- in no particular order: In addition to what Bar Ran Dun said, if you go this route you unfortunately need to be forceful with the team, because you're probably going to be meeting with public school employees and your daughter is one of probably hundreds of students that need to be evaluated. They're going to try to get this done quickly because they're busy. I'm not saying they don't care, but they're trying to get everything done by a deadline. Don't be afraid to be THAT parent who asks questions, asks for clarification, and most importantly asks for time to consider some of these decisions. Unfortunately the system isn't perfect, but it works if you force it to. I hope that makes sense. Edit: For parent content, our youngest is finally eating regularly!!! It took FOREVER. I'm right now watching him use a carrot as a spoon to shovel peanut butter into his mouth. It's going to be hard to go back to work next week because I'm enjoying just hanging out with these guys all day and doing stuff around the house. Greg Legg has issued a correction as of 13:46 on Aug 3, 2022 |
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Aug 3, 2022 13:19
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oh god we just discovered today that the toddler's been sneakily sharing her sandwiches with the dog. Not like giving him a piece, but like letting him take a bite and then going back to eating it hahahahhahaha 😂🤢 whyyyyy
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Aug 3, 2022 20:18
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sharing is good though  for real maybe time to explain doggies don’t wash their hands
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Aug 3, 2022 20:19
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:oh god we just discovered today that the toddler's been sneakily sharing her sandwiches with the dog. Not like giving him a piece, but like letting him take a bite and then going back to eating it hahahahhahaha 😂🤢 whyyyyy Yup you got a toddler alright
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Aug 4, 2022 00:08
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My daughter is becoming super sharp with understanding words and directions but still insists on scraping the fork on the plate and setting my teeth on edge and dear god little Soup please HOLD IT LIKE THIS, SEE LIKE THIS, NO DONT SMILE AND LAUGH AT DAD
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Aug 4, 2022 00:13
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Good soup! posted:My daughter is becoming super sharp with understanding words and directions but still insists on scraping the fork on the plate and setting my teeth on edge and dear god little Soup please HOLD IT LIKE THIS, SEE LIKE THIS, NO DONT SMILE AND LAUGH AT DAD This behavior has not changed up through age 7 so far at least
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Aug 4, 2022 00:20
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my kid loves screaming. not yelling or crying, just randomly going AAAAAAAAAA as loud as he can. i try not to laugh and encourage it but it's pretty funny. it really hurts my ears when he randomly lets loose during bathtime though. at least he seems to enjoy screaming!
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Aug 4, 2022 00:46
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In the parenting doghouse for the first time for introducing adult topics. The four year old is reading ahead and getting bored with her books so we started Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and I didn't consider the pejorative nature of Augustus Gloop. Cut to the child gleefully and loudly sorting kids and teachers into fat and thin on the playground. Whoops. Now to hopefully model some empathy before she causes some permanent damage. Or failing that discretion I guess.
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Aug 4, 2022 14:20
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It's generally a good idea to check up on beloved children's books before introducing them, a lot of them are ...not very PC. My mom found her old books, and read a beloved Danish classic which turned out to be a guide to racist stereotypes, complete with caricatures. It was quickly hidden away again, no harm done (I hope). He's pretty chill about gender though: we're expecting a baby in November, and "we" decided we didn't want to know the genitals. So now the 5 year old (from Saturday) has declared that the baby will be something between a boy and a girl.
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Aug 4, 2022 14:59
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I'm usually pretty good about it but this one was a blind spot and I found myself censoring quite a bit in text but you can't miss the central message. Here's hoping she absorbs Veruca Salt with similar fervor.
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Aug 4, 2022 15:13
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I'm of the opinion that children need to learn how judgement works before they can mature to fair and non prejudicial judgement. Children are going to learn the wrong lesson from things sometimes, and how you deal with that is probably way more important to their development than trying to never let it happen in the first place. I'd hate to think how bad my moral judgement was at 4.
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Aug 4, 2022 15:20
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Yeah, but a lot of what we read to them also teaches them the basic framework for understanding poo poo. Stuff like "this is a [slur]. They all like doing [racist stereotype]" (which is literally what my mom's book was) will not be questioned in the right manner, just accepted as fact. I don't have any not Danish examples, but I think background stuff like "oh he's a fattie, he must be lazy and dumb" will get absorbed the same way.
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Aug 4, 2022 15:29
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Speaking of bad parenting I was letting my daughter steal my glasses off my face because she'd try to be sneaky (slowly reach out with her hands while staring directly at them) about it then cackle every time she pulled off the spectacle heist. We've got a lot of family members who wear glasses. I've created a monster. Rookie mistake on my part.
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Aug 4, 2022 16:16
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Definitely need to think ahead to "what are the long term implications" because it's never just a one time thing!
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Aug 4, 2022 16:23
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Dreylad posted:Speaking of bad parenting I was letting my daughter steal my glasses off my face because she'd try to be sneaky (slowly reach out with her hands while staring directly at them) about it then cackle every time she pulled off the spectacle heist. We've got a lot of family members who wear glasses. I've created a monster. Eh depends on what she does with them once she's got them. We have to be vigilant with our 16mo because he likes to test things to destruction. Both of us have lost frames to his furious curiosity.
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Aug 4, 2022 16:27
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my kid likes to grab the glasses off my wifes face but he never does it to me... curious.
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Aug 4, 2022 17:46
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Dear baby: Just because it's a perfect fit doesn't mean your entire finger has to go up my nose Also stop pinching my nipple it doesn't have any milk
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Aug 6, 2022 08:10
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But if they pinch hard enough it might have blood.
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Aug 6, 2022 13:45
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