Lostconfused posted:

If you don't want your carriers to sink then just don't sail them where they might sink. It's not that hard to figure out.

Mook posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/25/hong-kong-refugees-britain-hongkongers-visa-scheme-crackdown

The crackdown on the 2019 pro-democracy protests, along with the introduction of a national security law in 2020, which allows authorities to curtail civil liberties and stamp out political dissent, was a step too far for many.

Atrocious Joe posted:

88,000 people moved from HK or the UK? Dear god why the UK?

Atrocious Joe posted:

https://twitter.com/jack/status/1555963290219692033?t=HBIQ6XaAsSjXalfMNztDog&s=19

Jack is gonna take down the communists

Atrocious Joe posted:

https://twitter.com/jack/status/1555963290219692033?t=HBIQ6XaAsSjXalfMNztDog&s=19

Jack is gonna take down the communists

BrainDance posted:

The thing is, what do we actually consider "universal healthcare"? Because even with the subsidized cost (though I imagine the implementation depends on the province, I really only can speak for Henan) if you have a serious medical problem that requires something more than a doctor visit you are paying far more than you would in other places with universal healthcare.

Even with a hukou, if you need say a CT scan you are paying about 2000rmb (probably plus some extra fees.) Which is better than America, but a month's wage for a lot of people here. A close friend in Zhoukou went through a situation where her father had a major heart problem. She had to rely on donations, because the "universal healthcare" and "subsidized cost" still ended up costing hundreds of thousands of rmb for the whole thing when all was said and done. He is a farmer, it would take him decades to pay that on his own.

The same thing in South Korea, not even known for having a good universal healthcare system, if you are enrolled in the public insurance would cost you very very little. I broke my foot in South Korea and needed surgery, it cost so little I don't even remember exactly how much. The thank you cake for the surgeon after cost more.

If my wife (because she has a hukou) broke her foot like that the surgery would still be very expensive. A lot more than a cake.

It is great to only pay 5rmb to see a doctor when you got food poisoning though. Those things are covered.

Mirello posted:

it really depends. I just asked my wife that specific example (ct scan) and she said it'd be about 300 kuai.

a real life example is we came back to china in march 2020 (lol) and she has a chronic illness we thought may've been covid (turned out not to be). she was taken away from the hotel quarantine and sent to the covid hospital for 3 days, done a bunch of tests. in america (bad example but it is where I'm from) being in the hospital overnight is basically a financial death sentence. it cost her 500 kuai (80$). That was actually the price anyone would've paid, and she didn't bother to get reimbursed because she thought it'd be too annoying.

not to say people don't go bankrupt in china paying for medical care. I do think a lot of sick people come to beijing or shanghai in search of the best treatment, and that can definitely be very expensive. There are also many treatments that aren't covered by the public health insurance which can be quite bad. I do think most people who get bankrupted are examples of what that other person was talking, seeking treatment in more advanced cities that they don't have hukous in or having to go to private hospitals.

lol, as I may've said before, my wife is actually very anti china, and she also related the story of one time she was at a hospital (btw for non chinese people reading, hospitals in china are like, every dr. office, urgent care, anything medical. They're not just emergencies like america). There was some old man who didnt have insurance begging for help, saying he was in so much pain. The hospital said "we're not a charity" and didn't do anything. really radicalizing for her. Of course, I told her in america, we would've given him tylenol and charged him 600$ for the privilege, but it's not all gum drops and rainbows in the people's republic.

statistically, Xi has done really well in investing in medical care and making it more widespread and functional. I'm hoping that they'll continue to reform the hukou and medical insurance system and soon provide a "real" UHC. But for a developing country, they're doing pretty well imo.

fart simpson posted:

went to a public hospital here in shenzhen today. i havent been to the doctor in america for over a decade so things might have changed or i might be remembering wrong, but one thing that always strikes me here is how much patient throughput and how efficient the experience is here. the hospital is set up like a factory. like, to get blood drawn a doctor has to order a blood test, then you walk over to the blood testing section of the hospital and at my local hospital they have 13 windows. you scan a little code when you enter, wait for them to call your name and you walk up to the window, sit down, they stick the needle in and you're out of there in like 30 seconds. by the time you walk up they have vials with your info and barcodes already there, someone else comes and takes them away for processing and an hour later i could see all the test results show up in an app on my phone and when i walked back up to the doctor's office he was already looking at my results on his computer screen.

at least for routine stuff like that there's really an extra level of efficiency and patient throughput that kinda boggles my mind

quote:

China's National Development and Reform Commission recently announced that the household registration system, popularly known by its Mandarin name Hukou, will be streamlined to encourage urbanization. All cities with a population under 3 million will have Hukou limits removed and registration for an urban Hukou in cities with a population between three and five million will be eased.

The modern Hukou, which reached maturity in 1958, determines who has access to local social amenities, such as education, healthcare and employment. Originally, it was an effective measure that prevented mass internal migration when China had an undeveloped economy based on agricultural production.

quote:

Indeed, when it comes to building a modern socialist state, inequality in accessing these services must eventually, on principle, be transformed into a state of equality. This transformation isn't a question of "will" but "how." That is to say, there is an obvious sympathy for this principle but changes must take place pragmatically based on China's economic conditions and in a step-by-step fashion to prevent social disorder.

The plan of reducing Hukou restrictions for smaller cities first and then eventually scrapping restrictions for China's large urban centers represents this aforementioned step-by-step approach.

This will prevent a mad rush to already large cities which could overburden their social services. It will encourage even urbanization across China, creating new economic centers, preserve local culture and prevent "Londonization", where all resources get sucked into one metropolis. It also allows the central government to focus resources on smaller cities.

Atrocious Joe posted:

https://twitter.com/jack/status/1555963290219692033?t=HBIQ6XaAsSjXalfMNztDog&s=19

Jack is gonna take down the communists

Mirello posted:

I hope this helped and I didn't just write all this poo poo for nothing.

Kekeke! posted:

Wanted to jump into the thread again because my favorite China topic (healthcare) is getting discussed again. I am way too familiar with the medical system in Beijing than anyone my age has any luck to be.

Atrocious Joe posted:

https://twitter.com/jack/status/1555963290219692033?t=HBIQ6XaAsSjXalfMNztDog&s=19

Jack is gonna take down the communists

Mook posted:

So we should abandon a functional democracy for the famously "capitalism free" CCP? Hmm

fart simpson posted:

ct scans in shenzhen, at a public clinic or hospital, run about 300 rmb as of last year. one thing i have noticed is some of my coworkers who refuse to go to public hospitals for some reason, exclusively go to fancy private clinics, and then complain about how expensive it all is. like, one of them told me recently "a basic checkup in shenzhen costs 3,000 rmb. how crazy is that?"

e: gonna quote this post of mine from earlier this year because it seems relevant

BrainDance posted:

Kekeke! posted:

unwantedplatypus posted:

No matter how bad a country's healthcare system it, it's always better than the US's lmfao

fart simpson posted:

ct scans in shenzhen, at a public clinic or hospital, run about 300 rmb as of last year.

unwantedplatypus posted:

No matter how bad a country's healthcare system it, it's always better than the US's lmfao

Mirello posted:

it really depends. I just asked my wife that specific example (ct scan) and she said it'd be about 300 kuai.

Raskolnikov38 posted:

there’s two threads in different forums for the geopolitical redditors, why must they post here

Horatius Bonar posted:

A CT scan I first had to pay out of pocket for then get reimbursed had about the same price tag in Taiwan, think it was 2300 NTD.

How was the wait time between "you need a CT scan" and getting one?

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/AmbassadeChine/status/1556278347851649024?t=IE3tw5xwc-uvcG6D1LBFxQ&s=19

fart simpson posted:

around here the "wait time" is like 2 hours

Raskolnikov38 posted:

greater economic integration, geopolitical stability, and not having to buy and train on expensive and lovely american arms

BrainDance posted:

I'm not sure what accounts for that difference (I'm not a doctor and I'm not ordering tests) but I know for a fact that a CT scan of a Kaifeng resident's heart with contrast pretty recently at one of the few public hospitals in the area that takes care of these things was roughly 1500 for the scan itself, 500 for misc things (I'm assuming the contrast itself and whatever other drugs they use for that), and then there was more for the doctor itself.

For myself (though thats who knows because I do not have a hukou anywhere. I have insurance though) even more basic tests for a kinda similar thing were somewhat expensive. I'm fine and an idiot but about 500 for an ECG at a normal public Zhengzhou hospital.

Horatius Bonar posted:

Kekeke! posted:

fart simpson posted:

i also dont have a hukou anywhere, and last time idid anything significant in the hospital it was some bloodwork, radiograph of my chest, and a couple visits with a specialist, and some medicine from the hospital pharmacy and the whole thing came in for about 250 RMB

AnimeIsTrash posted:

I got yours postwork back and it looks like aids.

Maximo Roboto posted:

That’s great, maybe the PRC should go back to trumpeting those benefits to Taiwan instead whatever they’re doing right now