|
-Blackadder- posted:At the very least Dems are taking what they learned from the PACT Act skirmish and absolutely hammering the GOP on the insulin cap. Republicans going after the IRS enlargement but the IRS never killed anyone while diabetes has
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 00:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 17:18 |
|
|
-Blackadder- posted:At the very least Dems are taking what they learned from the PACT Act skirmish and absolutely hammering the GOP on the insulin cap. We also saw Dems overwhelmingly vote down Sander’s amendments for much needed financial relief for average Americans as well as child tax credits. But Dems and their supporters lack a moral compass, as evident by their actions and this incredibly watered down bill. It’s incredibly gross that folks are not only viewing this as a major win (instead of a small step in the right direction in some areas while a step backwards in others, especially allowing the continuation of drilling in vulnerable lands) but also scolding Bernie for having the audacity to support those most vulnerable to the financial mess America is in.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 00:26
|
|
|
virtualboyCOLOR posted:We also saw Dems overwhelmingly vote down Sander’s amendments for much needed financial relief for average Americans as well as child tax credits. Giving money to private businesses to solve climate change is like adding gasoline to a lawn mower to make it fly. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Aug 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 00:29
|
|
|
Cpt_Obvious posted:Giving money to private businesses to solve climate change is like adding gasoline to a lawn mower to make it fly. https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DopeyShockingBabirusa-mobile.mp4
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 00:55
|
|
|
virtualboyCOLOR posted:But Dems and their supporters lack a moral compass, as evident by their actions and this incredibly watered down bill. It’s incredibly gross that folks are not only viewing this as a major win (instead of a small step in the right direction in some areas while a step backwards in others, especially allowing the continuation of drilling in vulnerable lands) but also scolding Bernie for having the audacity to support those most vulnerable to the financial mess America is in. I'm sorry this bill doesn't have everything you want in it, but this bill does still do a lot of good stuff, it's a bill everybody thought was dead, and the bill that passed got unanimous support from Senate Democrats....from Manchin's wing of the party to Sanders's. It is a major win, and it's ok to say that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:02
|
|
|
Most of the climate change money goes to subsidies for green power generation, new construction, and research; but here's a list of some of the consumer rebates you can get personally/directly. Some of them are automatic and don't require you to do anything, but are generally very small benefits. A few of them are very specific and require you to actively do something, but could potentially be very large (although they obviously don't benefit you at all if you don't want that specific thing). Most of these are available through 2029. The large, but specific, rebates are: 1) The big obvious one is the $7,500 discount on a new electric vehicle purchase or $4,000 on a used electric vehicle purchase. 2) There's a lot of up-front rebates for different home energy upgrades. There's a fixed amount of money for these ($4.5 billion), so they only last as long as the money is still there. quote:Installing rooftop solar: The Inflation Reduction Act provides for 30 percent off the cost of rooftop solar, which amounts to average savings of $7,000. They also approved loans for solar programs that structure the up-front installation costs so that you pay nothing up front and your energy company will cover all the upfront installation costs, but you have to agree to sell a portion of the energy you generate with your solar panels to your local power company for X years to pay them back. The most generous/significant rebates are for energy-efficient electric appliances to replace gas-powered appliances. You can get some of them covered up to 100% if your household makes less than ~$55k and 50% covered if you make more. quote:Switching to electric appliances: The Inflation Reduction Act offers homes up to $14,000 in rebates to switch over to electric appliances—covering up to 50 percent of the costs for moderate-income households and 100 percent of the costs for low-income households. The total program is capped at $4.5 billion. This includes up to: The automatic, but small, benefits: 1) If you get your energy from nuclear power, then you get an automatic 3 cent per kilowatt hour credit to your energy bill. 2) Even if you don't opt for any of the specific rebates, the IRA will reduce the average energy prices for a household by $63 on electricity bills and $105 on gas and other energy bills per year. That's only ~$14 a month on average, but you don't have to do anything to get it  Not sure how many goons are/will be in the market for any of those sometime between now and 2029, but might as well put it out there. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...ill-11659901660 https://www.businessinsider.com/what-inflation-reduction-act-means-finances-tax-health-climate-democrats-2022-8 https://www.americanprogress.org/article/5-major-benefits-of-the-inflation-reduction-acts-climate-investments/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/decarbonize-households-america-needs-incentives-electric-appliances/ Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Aug 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:14
|
|
|
I will take it over nothing. It's disappointing that the good BBB was sliced down into a much much smaller bill, but clearly the Manchins and the Sinemas weren't going to allow us to have anything better. It's just a super hosed up system and it's going to get worse as the inherent GOP advantage in the Senate due to over-representation of smaller states grows.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:15
|
|
|
Epicurius posted:I'm sorry this bill doesn't have everything you want in it, but this bill does still do a lot of good stuff, it's a bill everybody thought was dead, and the bill that passed got unanimous support from Senate Democrats....from Manchin's wing of the party to Sanders's. It is a major win, and it's ok to say that. A bill thought to be dead that does very little to combat the incredibly fast approaching apocalypse and even gives away protected land to those that hastened the destruction of the earth and its inhabitants is not something worthy of praise in my book. Maybe those that praise the Dems who voted in lockstep kill amendments that would have actual meaningful impact just see the world differently thanks to their lack of ethics. FlamingLiberal posted:I will take it over nothing. It's disappointing that the good BBB was sliced down into a much much smaller bill, but clearly the Manchins and the Sinemas weren't going to allow us to have anything better. It's just a super hosed up system and it's going to get worse as the inherent GOP advantage in the Senate due to over-representation of smaller states grows. It’s why I find it disgusting that folks would praise the party in power when they are rolling out the red carpet for fascists to remove the tiny sliver of “good” this bill does. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The large, but specific, rebates are: This will surely help families struggling with inflation and not translate to a giveaway to corporations  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Aug 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:21
|
|
|
Irl lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:26
|
|
|
I'm excited about the Electric Vehicle tax credit, what do I have to do to qualify for it? And how do I know if it applies to a car I'd like to buy?
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:28
|
|
|
virtualboyCOLOR posted:A bill thought to be dead that does very little to combat the incredibly fast approaching apocalypse and even gives away protected land to those that hastened the destruction of the earth and its inhabitants is not something worthy of praise in my book. Maybe those that praise the Dems who voted in lockstep kill amendments that would have actual meaningful impact just see the world differently thanks to their lack of ethics. The bill, climatewise, gets us to about 70% of our goals under the climate agreement. It makes Medicare cheaper. It makes sure companies have to pay a minimum tax. Maybe it's just my lack of ethics, but I think those are good things.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:30
|
|
|
Sharkie posted:I'm excited about the Electric Vehicle tax credit, what do I have to do to qualify for it? And how do I know if it applies to a car I'd like to buy? You have to make less than $150k or $300k if you file jointly. If it's an SUV or truck, it has to cost less than $80k. If it's a sedan or crossover, it has to cost less than $55k. The car has to be assembled in North America. It's applied as a rebate for $7,500 off purchase price at purchase.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:35
|
|
|
virtualboyCOLOR posted:This will surely help families struggling with inflation and not translate to a giveaway to corporations You don't have to take them and you can pay for it upfront if you want. But, yeah, it is essentially a way for the government to have the power company pay all of the upfront costs for installation and get paid back over time because they think many more people will adopt if there is no upfront cost and the goal of the program is to get as many people to install solar panels as possible.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:41
|
|
|
Does the vehicle credit re-up for cars that bad previously lost it like the Bolt and Leaf?
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:48
|
|
|
Riven posted:Does the vehicle credit re-up for cars that bad previously lost it like the Bolt and Leaf? Yes. It eliminates the cap to the credit that was applied when a company sold at least 200,000 electric vehicles and replaces it with qualifications based on price and manufacturing origin. Tesla, Nissan, and Toyota EVs will qualify again. The car now has to cost less than $80k if it is an SUV or truck and less than $55k if it is a sedan to qualify for the rebate. It also has to be assembled at least 50% in North America.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:53
|
|
|
I found this page online a week ago because I've been wanting to get an EV for my next car, and recently learned about the rebate. This is from 7/29 and has a list of cars that qualify and the amount of rebate you get. https://electrek.co/2022/07/29/which-electric-vehicles-still-qualify-for-us-federal-tax-credit/
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 01:58
|
|
|
Velocity Raptor posted:I found this page online a week ago because I've been wanting to get an EV for my next car, and recently learned about the rebate. This is from 7/29 and has a list of cars that qualify and the amount of rebate you get. Just FYI: They mention it later in the article, but that list is based on the current eligibility standards. It doesn't include the new standards. It says they will update the page when the law changes, so it is probably a good page to bookmark.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 02:02
|
|
|
Epicurius posted:I'm sorry this bill doesn't have everything you want in it, but this bill does still do a lot of good stuff, it's a bill everybody thought was dead, and the bill that passed got unanimous support from Senate Democrats....from Manchin's wing of the party to Sanders's. It is a major win, and it's ok to say that. It's also OK to say that it's sorely lacking in many ways, and that we shouldn't be satisfied with it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 02:11
|
|
|
BetterToRuleInHell posted:God drat it, who names the bills, it's such a easy target. Name it after something it will least likely do, that's not going to become fodder for opponents, not at all. The average American only reads news headlines and the person who wrote this bill understands that
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 02:12
|
|
|
Epicurius posted:I'm sorry this bill doesn't have everything you want in it, but this bill does still do a lot of good stuff, it's a bill everybody thought was dead, and the bill that passed got unanimous support from Senate Democrats....from Manchin's wing of the party to Sanders's. It is a major win, and it's ok to say that.  Fister Roboto posted:It's also OK to say that it's sorely lacking in many ways, and that we shouldn't be satisfied with it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 02:12
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:
This is definitely Manchin doing the most cynical West Virginia baiting and I can’t stop lolling
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 02:16
|
|
|
If you’re a COUNTRY BOY driving an electric TRUCK you get an extra 30k over those pussies in SEDANS who probably don’t even go HUNTING or to the HOME DEPOT
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 02:18
|
|
|
bills that are "good but not good enough" is about all we're likely to get in the near future without some serious institutional reforms (particularly re the senate)
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 02:26
|
|
|
BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:This is definitely Manchin doing the most cynical West Virginia baiting and I can’t stop lolling Alot of this conversation may be better off in the EV specific thread in AI, but the greater shift of car companies away from sedans and into crossovers/SUVs is partially to blame (because the companies are able to put a premium by lifting hatchbacks a couple inches.) In 5 years there may not be any new EVs sold in the US that meet what the US government classifies as a "sedan."
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 03:09
|
|
|
goethe.cx posted:bills that are "good but not good enough" is about all we're likely to get in the near future without some serious institutional reforms (particularly re the senate) It also describes vast majority of legislation in American history.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 03:12
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:It's also OK to say that it's sorely lacking in many ways, and that we shouldn't be satisfied with it. I don't think it'll happen, because it's kind of late in the session for a new bill to be introduced and get through, but the insulin provision got 57 votes. It just needs 3 more Republicans to pass. So it's not impossible.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 03:23
|
|
|
Why don’t these rebates ever include hybrid vehicles? Are those not better for the environment than normal cars?
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 04:01
|
|
|
ellasmith posted:Why don’t these rebates ever include hybrid vehicles? Are those not better for the environment than normal cars? They do include plug-in hybrids.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 04:01
|
|
|
For those posters who are confidently repeating the emission reduction percentage from the studies that I assume they've read, do you know if they accounted for the massive expansion in oil extraction when they did the math on the coupon book that's going to stop climate collapse? I feel like they must have but I haven't read the studies yet myself. Trying to find the time
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 05:52
|
|
|
TheIncredulousHulk posted:For those posters who are confidently repeating the emission reduction percentage from the studies that I assume they've read, do you know if they accounted for the massive expansion in oil extraction when they did the math on the coupon book that's going to stop climate collapse? I feel like they must have but I haven't read the studies yet myself. Trying to find the time I think the hope is that since fossil fuel companies already have tons of leases for potential drilling sites which they aren't using, just the fact that they're allowed to buy leases doesn't necessarily mean that they're guaranteed to use all of them. Realistically, getting this bill passed now, even if it is insufficient, is the best chance at providing something the Democratic party can point to as something they've done, in the hopes of getting enough of a higher turnout that they'll have additional Senators and won't have their agenda stymied by Sinema and Manchin. That could mean stronger climate legislation or rescinding some of the stuff Manchin demanded be in it to get this passed. (Of course, who knows how many other Democrats are standing behind those two and using them as a shield to take the fire.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 06:04
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I think the hope is that since fossil fuel companies already have tons of leases for potential drilling sites which they aren't using, just the fact that they're allowed to buy leases doesn't necessarily mean that they're guaranteed to use all of them. Oh so it's not in the math. That sucks, but it was pretty short notice. Anyway, it seems weird that the oil companies are happy about being able to buy more land to drill on in order to not drill on it, but perhaps Biden and Manchin hoodwinked them and they'll be donating to the federal government for free
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 06:31
|
|
|
TheIncredulousHulk posted:For those posters who are confidently repeating the emission reduction percentage from the studies that I assume they've read, do you know if they accounted for the massive expansion in oil extraction when they did the math on the coupon book that's going to stop climate collapse? I feel like they must have but I haven't read the studies yet myself. Trying to find the time Yes. This is the primary report on the latest version of the bill that is being cited. There is not in fact a "massive expansion in oil extraction", and the bill is not presented by anyone other than yourself as "the coupon book that is going to stop climate collapse". quote:The Inflation Reduction Act does include several notable changes to public lands policy that could affect oil and gas production in federal lands and waters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 06:40
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:Yes. This is the primary report on the latest version of the bill that is being cited. There is not in fact a "massive expansion in oil extraction", and the bill is not presented by anyone other than yourself as "the coupon book that is going to stop climate collapse". Oh okay cool. Well let's cross our fingers the "green tech" consultants and the researchers funded by ExxonMobil did all their math right, and hope that their hope that the challenging modeling that they did not do is as low-impact as they think, as well as their baseline assumption of "rational" economic behavior from all actors comes true and everyone maximizes all their coupons
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 07:10
|
|
|
goethe.cx posted:bills that are "good but not good enough" is about all we're likely to get in the near future without some serious institutional reforms (particularly re the senate) It also describes a level of action that is utterly insufficient to advert worldwide climate catastrophe To be fair it's not like that's a surprise.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 10:06
|
|
|
TheIncredulousHulk posted:For those posters who are confidently repeating the emission reduction percentage from the studies that I assume they've read, do you know if they accounted for the massive expansion in oil extraction when they did the math on the coupon book that's going to stop climate collapse? I feel like they must have but I haven't read the studies yet myself. Trying to find the time They do. It was originally going to get us ~72% of the way to meeting the paris goals by 2030. It ends up getting us 69.7% of the way.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 11:54
|
|
|
 Graham was given a very stern warning by the Dems yesterday for violating the Senate decorum rule. https://www.yahoo.com/news/graham-warned-decorum-rule-attacks-170427763.html?ncid=twitter_yahoonewst_sjwumo1bpf4
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 14:19
|
|
|
quote:- Expanding the new income limits, boosted subsidies, and $0 premium/$0 deductible ACA plans for another 3 years. Is the clawback on hold for another 3 years as well? I still don't understand the $0 premium/$0 deductible plans and who exactly is able to actually get them and how.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 14:42
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Most of the climate change money goes to subsidies for green power generation, new construction, and research; but here's a list of some of the consumer rebates you can get personally/directly. Aww man, none of the big ones are for renters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 15:26
|
|
|
When does this bill take effect? Our 18 year old second car’s engine bit the dust recently and I was thinking about getting an electric. Seeing how long I would need to hold out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 16:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 17:18 |
|
|
Apparently there are some pretty hefty caveats on the EV tax credit. For vehicles to qualify, they have to have X% of their parts made / assembled in the US and there are sticker price limits that will cut out a good portion of EVs from qualifying. And for the used EV credit, you have to have owned the EV for 2 years and the sale can't be for more than 25k, which again, cuts out a huge number. The bill seems like a massive giveaway to Tesla as it removes the 100k vehicles sold rule, which makes Tesla EVs qualify again (none qualify for the rebate now) and Tesla is US-based.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 16:31
|
|
