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is motorcycling awesome
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Spiggy
Apr 26, 2008

Not a cop
My crappy Bilt gloves got a hole in them, so I upgraded to some Alpinestars and it's a pretty drastic change. They feel much higher quality but the thicker material plus no break in made it a pretty awkward ride home. It's ok though because I got to rev bomb some little kids watching me during a stop light and it made my crappy last 24 hours a little better.

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Remy Marathe
Mar 15, 2007

_________===D ~ ~ _\____/

I took my first off-road ride ever yesterday (not counting pitted lawns and ditches on a 50cc scooter), it was a ton of fun and a ton of work. I'm beat to hell today. I rode the VanVan200, which remains in fine health, and was joined by a friend on his Yamaha XT250 who knew the way. We've both been riding on the streets for a number of years but he doesn't have much more experience off-road than I do, so it was a learning experience for both of us.

We were comparing notes on what our preparatory internet reading on trail riding had yielded, and the funny thing was we'd walked away with pretty opposite takeaways on braking. His had emphasized use of the rear brake and keeping weight rearward, mine had emphasized standing bent at the hips, weighting the front and using the front brake essentially the same as usual (along with getting used to your reduced traction budget on the terrain). I assume both have more/less appropriate moments and I should probably figure out those nuances. My body might already know them, there was a lot of sit/stand/sit/stand but I couldn't tell you why one sometimes felt more appropriate than the other.

Before the ride I'd read through a few beginner writeups and spent a couple weeks using my commute and gravel lots to get some practice shifting and braking while standing on the pegs, and actually steering with the bars versus countersteering. Standing bent at the hip is quickly tiring for my soft nerd wrists, particularly when taking weight off a foot to shift or reach the rear brake.

Our target was the Divide Peak OHV (Off-Highway Vehicle) trail in the Santa Ynez Mountains, and just reaching the trailhead was a ride in itself, took us a little under an hour to cover 15 miles on this single-lane paved road. Stunning views pretty much the whole ride there, sometimes on both sides as this is the crest of a mountain ridge behind Santa Barbara and neighboring towns.

The OHV trail itself was listed at 13 miles, and while I had every intention of playing it by ear, I was silly in hindsight to think that we'd get anywhere near the end. A couple riders we talked to at the parking area before the trailhead said we could probably make it a fair ways in, and seemed to suggest it'd be pretty obvious to us when we needed to turn around. We never reached that limit, we got ~4 miles deep, and spent about an hour getting there. Even the brief fire trail to the trailhead was sketchier ground than I'd ever ridden. It was a pretty well-worn trail, with some rougher patches ("baby head gravel" is apparently a phrase) and things that could seriously gently caress you up if you weren't paying attention.

The attention drain was my biggest takeaway, not a surprise except for its scale: Street riding in traffic is tiring enough when you're exercising due vigilance. 5 minutes on the trail was like an hour of city traffic. An absolutely constant fight to push my attention further up the trail, plot a line (and the next one if I was lucky), adjusting as things got slippy, and tearing my gaze away from menacing rocks as they approached closer to me than expected in order to...push my attention further up the trail, plot a line...

Way more fun than that sounds. The vanvan on its side below is an object lesson in target fixation, which was also an indicator that fatigue was starting to set in. Another such indicator was that I'd started sitting through things I'd have previously stood through. After dropping my bike, we crested the next hill, took a snack/water break and did the 4 miles back out of there.

How it happened:
1) Coming around a corner, there was a sketchy wash-out of the trail (left of my friend's random thumb there in the pic). Off-frame to the right is "you're hosed" angle mountain slope.
2) I gave that wash-out just slightly more and longer attention than I should have, because whatever I saw it and was already past it. Brain wasting time on "wow sketchy wash-out!"
3) That attention cost me time planning for the ditch on my right, which was increasing in width, and my bike was working its way toward it.
4) Target Fixation: the ditch got inside my brain, really got in there. I 100% would not have dropped the bike if I'd done what I was doing the rest of the time, torn my attention up and forward to where I wanted to go, and kept the rear wheel turning.
5) But instead there was only ditch in brain, I knew I wasn't doing what I needed to do, and watched as my lizard brain stopped the bike rather than double down on this "doing nothing about the ditch" business.
6) I don't actually remember #6, tried really hard right afterwards but couldn't. I stopped the bike easily. You can see my front tire is still on the trail, so is my rear. Friend riding behind me saw my right foot on the hillside, left on the left peg, straddling the bike as it went over.

So yeah, both tires still on the trail, I was not yet ensnared by the ditch, and plan B (stopping) would've worked fine too if I had just planted my left foot instead of my right.

Here's what we did AFTER:
7-Considered my own health, including the possibility that anything was hurt/twisted that I wasn't feeling yet on account of adrenaline. I was fine.
8-Looked under the bike for any leaking fluids or risk of starting a wildfire that might warrant hasty action on my part. Thinking a fire extinguisher would be smart to pack in.
9-There being no immediate danger, we checked out the bike's state and planned out how we'd lift it back up without anyone throwing their back out.
---- Here's where my friend had the foresight to put the sidestand down, to prevent it going over the other way. Not that the vanvan's very heavy.
10- We brought it up, and then I started it and carefully used the throttle from the side to move it up the trail and away from the ditch; the rear tire was juuuuust starting to go into the ditch.

In this case my bane was also a blessing- that ditch also prevented pretty much anything on the right from getting broken or bent. The handlebar was buried an inch or two in the hillside, and the mirror would later swing free on the ride back and make me glad I brought a crescent wrench. But the VanVan was otherwise unscathed.

10/10 look forward to doing it again. Here's a pano my friend took from our turnaround point, that's the trail we came up back there:https://imgur.com/a/6g7Bukc

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Remy Marathe fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Aug 9, 2022

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

Remy Marathe posted:

I took my first off-road ride ever yesterday (not counting pitted lawns and ditches on a 50cc scooter), it was a ton of fun and a ton of work. I'm beat to hell today. I rode the VanVan200, which remains in fine health, and was joined by a friend on his Yamaha XT250 who knew the way. We've both been riding on the streets for a number of years but he doesn't have much more experience off-road than I do, so it was a learning experience for both of us.

We were comparing notes on what our preparatory internet reading on trail riding had yielded, and the funny thing was we'd walked away with pretty opposite takeaways on braking. His had emphasized use of the rear brake and keeping weight rearward, mine had emphasized standing bent at the hips, weighting the front and using the front brake essentially the same as usual (along with getting used to your reduced traction budget on the terrain). I assume both have more/less appropriate moments and I should probably figure out those nuances. My body might already know them, there was a lot of sit/stand/sit/stand but I couldn't tell you why one sometimes felt more appropriate than the other.

Before the ride I'd read through a few beginner writeups and spent a couple weeks using my commute and gravel lots to get some practice shifting and braking while standing on the pegs, and actually steering with the bars versus countersteering. Standing bent at the hip is quickly tiring for my soft nerd wrists, particularly when taking weight off a foot to shift or reach the rear brake.

Our target was the Divide Peak OHV (Off-Highway Vehicle) trail in the Santa Ynez Mountains, and just reaching the trailhead was a ride in itself, took us a little under an hour to cover 15 miles on this single-lane paved road. Stunning views pretty much the whole ride there, sometimes on both sides as this is the crest of a mountain ridge behind Santa Barbara and neighboring towns.

The OHV trail itself was listed at 13 miles, and while I had every intention of playing it by ear, I was silly in hindsight to think that we'd get anywhere near the end. A couple riders we talked to at the parking area before the trailhead said we could probably make it a fair ways in, and seemed to suggest it'd be pretty obvious to us when we needed to turn around. We never reached that limit, we got ~4 miles deep, and spent about an hour getting there. Even the brief fire trail to the trailhead was sketchier ground than I'd ever ridden. It was a pretty well-worn trail, with some rougher patches ("baby head gravel" is apparently a phrase) and things that could seriously gently caress you up if you weren't paying attention.

The attention drain was my biggest takeaway, not a surprise except for its scale: Street riding in traffic is tiring enough when you're exercising due vigilance. 5 minutes on the trail was like an hour of city traffic. An absolutely constant fight to push my attention further up the trail, plot a line (and the next one if I was lucky), adjusting as things got slippy, and tearing my gaze away from menacing rocks as they approached closer to me than expected in order to...push my attention further up the trail, plot a line...

Way more fun than that sounds. The vanvan on its side below is an object lesson in target fixation, which was also an indicator that fatigue was starting to set in. Another such indicator was that I'd started sitting through things I'd have previously stood through. After dropping my bike, we crested the next hill, took a snack/water break and did the 4 miles back out of there.

How it happened:
1) Coming around a corner, there was a sketchy wash-out of the trail (left of my friend's random thumb there in the pic). Off-frame to the right is "you're hosed" angle mountain slope.
2) I gave that wash-out just slightly more and longer attention than I should have, because whatever I saw it and was already past it. Brain wasting time on "wow sketchy wash-out!"
3) That attention cost me time planning for the ditch on my right, which was increasing in width, and my bike was working its way toward it.
4) Target Fixation: the ditch got inside my brain, really got in there. I 100% would not have dropped the bike if I'd done what I was doing the rest of the time, torn my attention up and forward to where I wanted to go, and kept the rear wheel turning.
5) But instead there was only ditch in brain, I knew I wasn't doing what I needed to do, and watched as my lizard brain stopped the bike rather than double down on this "doing nothing about the ditch" business.
6) I don't actually remember #6, tried really hard right afterwards but couldn't. I stopped the bike easily. You can see my front tire is still on the trail, so is my rear. Friend riding behind me saw my right foot on the hillside, left on the left peg, straddling the bike as it went over.

So yeah, both tires still on the trail, I was not yet ensnared by the ditch, and plan B (stopping) would've worked fine too if I had just planted my left foot instead of my right.

Here's what we did AFTER:
7-Considered my own health, including the possibility that anything was hurt/twisted that I wasn't feeling yet on account of adrenaline. I was fine.
8-Looked under the bike for any leaking fluids or risk of starting a wildfire that might warrant hasty action on my part. Thinking a fire extinguisher would be smart to pack in.
9-There being no immediate danger, we checked out the bike's state and planned out how we'd lift it back up without anyone throwing their back out.
---- Here's where my friend had the foresight to put the sidestand down, to prevent it going over the other way. Not that the vanvan's very heavy.
10- We brought it up, and then I started it and carefully used the throttle from the side to move it up the trail and away from the ditch; the rear tire was juuuuust starting to go into the ditch.

In this case my bane was also a blessing- that ditch also prevented pretty much anything on the right from getting broken or bent. The handlebar was buried an inch or two in the hillside, and the mirror would later swing free on the ride back and make me glad I brought a crescent wrench. But the VanVan was otherwise unscathed.

10/10 look forward to doing it again. Here's a pano my friend took from our turnaround point, that's the trail we came up back there:https://imgur.com/a/6g7Bukc



This is great and riding on dirt is the best.

This is my favorite channel for basic skills. https://www.youtube.com/c/CrossTrainingEnduroSkills/playlists

He even has a playlist for basic skills although I think you should probably start on video 4 on body position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZnKp981LqQ

There's also the IRC moto tire guy who's quite good but a little more advanced although for some reason his body position video is also not #1 on the list (it's 12). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGzJpP0hW1E

Standing is the best and "right" way to do things but it is a lot easier to stand if you have big pegs. Aftermarket pegs made a huge difference for me on how easy it was to stand. I've also been standing up in a race and gotten passed by a tremendously obese man sitting down and seeming like he was having a grand time of things while I was absolutely dying so...

Tires make a huge difference too as does bike weight. But tires are easier to change. Knobby tires will have much better traction. Baby head rocks are terrible to ride on but usually that's rocks the size of a baby's head as opposed to gravel? Fine gravel can also be a bit like sand to ride on and be quite difficult at first with the added bonus of hurting more if you fall.

Braking - you want to use both brakes. Lots of folks just use rear brake on dirt and that's OK but it's not as good as also using front. When you get better you'll start using brakes to turn a little bit too but not yet. Remember that if you have some power, a dirt bike on dirt can be more like a boat in terms of steering than a motorcycle. Just keep it pointed the right way and the back can wiggle around a lot. That's probably for later and a different bike though.

Looking up is, as you have discovered, also super important. I still have moments when my brain gets full of stuff to do that I stop looking ahead and it is bad and not good. Just always look up and forward and trust your suspension. Your bike can go over something that's just under half the size of your front tire. Your brain will absolutely scream "OH GOD NO STOP" way before anything gets that big so you can generally just give the bike a little throttle and go over stuff you think you can't.

It's expected to crash on the dirt in a way it just isn't on the road.

And, to repeat myself, riding on dirt is the best and this is great.

builds character fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Aug 9, 2022

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!
Re: boaty dirt bikes and sliding rear ends: one of the most fun things to do for me personally is to initiate a turn on wet sand (i.e., beach) and get on the throttle so the rear slides out. You can do this going fairly fast.
Don't be behind me, though : paddle tire rooster tail of wet sand hurts.

Was out riding in dunes/beach again last Sunday. I spent most of it practicing wheelies. My distance improved a little.

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!
College Slice
My stepfather was riding a CRF450RL. He's been a motocross racer for decades. We were riding in the street, on a pretty steep incline stopped.
I always put my left leg down, right leg on brake. Right hand focuses on throttle when it's time to go.
He was using the front brake, which is harder.

The CRF450RL is both a very tall bike and very easy to stall in first gear.
He stalled it and dumped the bike, got hurt.

The bike has suspension settings for preload, sag, and damping. I don't see anything for ride height.
We are both the same height. Can't really touch the ground at 5'8. Slightly leaned it's fine.

Uhh, in rough terrain I have almost strained my calf I guess on my versys 300, it is also kind of tall, not as tall as this. You shouldn't ever have to put your foot down when moving, I have on a few occasions like tried to stop the bike with the middle part over a hole or dip in the dirt and it is shocking. Have not dumped it yet. I have put my foot down going really slow...rarely. I feel bad if I ever have to do it. The CRF450RL with its height it would not be an option if unstable. You'd have to stop completely and shift your weight and lean to one side, very relaxed.

Is it advisable to put a ride height linkage on the CRF450RL? Or just like get good?
Like I saw exactly what he did wrong. Left foot on the ground on an incline when stopped is almost always the easiest and best thing to do.

Some day I want that bike, but the amount of stuff I'd want to do to it is long, and maybe lowering it an inch or two is on that list.

Or is adjusting sag enough?

The bike has an unforgiving clutch which makes technique stopped on a hill even harder. Not slipper, barely a cush drive. The clutch pulls kind of hard and has a very narrow like actuation area where it slips vs fully engaged.

Is like wanting to do some mods regarding ride height and clutch feel normal, or is it just like a not-beginner friendly high end expensive enduro best left stock in those areas?

Like I got on the bike and rode it around for 10 minutes, I really want one as a sumo bike. Yoshi exhaust. Road tires. Power commander. Maybe a longer clutch handle IDK. Maybe an inch lower. Would be amazingly fun at the track and around town. Not doing distance on it.


SSH IT ZOMBIE fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Aug 11, 2022

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:

My stepfather was riding a CRF450RL. He's been a motocross racer for decades. We were riding in the street, on a pretty steep incline stopped.
I always put my left leg down, right leg on brake. Right hand focuses on throttle when it's time to go.
He was using the front brake, which is harder.

The CRF450RL is both a very tall bike and very easy to stall in first gear.
He stalled it and dumped the bike, got hurt.

The bike has suspension settings for preload, sag, and damping. I don't see anything for ride height.
We are both the same height. Can't really touch the ground at 5'8. Slightly leaned it's fine.

Uhh, in rough terrain I have almost strained my calf I guess on my versys 300, it is also kind of tall, not as tall as this. You shouldn't ever have to put your foot down when moving, I have on a few occasions like tried to stop the bike with the middle part over a hole or dip in the dirt and it is shocking. Have not dumped it yet. I have put my foot down going really slow...rarely. I feel bad if I ever have to do it. The CRF450RL with its height it would not be an option if unstable. You'd have to stop completely and shift your weight and lean to one side, very relaxed.

Is it advisable to put a ride height linkage on the CRF450RL? Or just like get good?
Like I saw exactly what he did wrong. Left foot on the ground on an incline when stopped is almost always the easiest and best thing to do.

Some day I want that bike, but the amount of stuff I'd want to do to it is long, and maybe lowering it an inch or two is on that list.

Or is adjusting sag enough?

The bike has an unforgiving clutch which makes technique stopped on a hill even harder. Not slipper, barely a cush drive. The clutch pulls kind of hard and has a very narrow like actuation area where it slips vs fully engaged.

Is like wanting to do some mods regarding ride height and clutch feel normal, or is it just like a not-beginner friendly high end expensive enduro best left stock in those areas?

Like I got on the bike and rode it around for 10 minutes, I really want one as a sumo bike. Yoshi exhaust. Road tires. Power commander. Maybe a longer clutch handle IDK. Maybe an inch lower. Would be amazingly fun at the track and around town. Not doing distance on it.

Get good is the real answer for you. Once you're better you'll be able to go to one side or the other and put a leg down just fine. For the clutch, maybe get a MME clutch lever if they make them for the CRF - it basically takes a segment of clutch activation (you choose which through adjustment but ideally the part where the clutch engages...) and then spreads that small segment out over the whole pull.

If you want to lower a bike, start with a beta - they're a little lower from factory and have factory lowering options. But if you already have the CRF450L... Some folks will say DO NOT LOWER IT YOU'LL RUIN THE GEOMETRY but those folks aren't the ones falling over in the street so just get it lowered, the geometry will be fine. You should be able to send it to a suspension place like factory connection and get it lowered. Suspension places for dirt bikes are great because you can call them and they're usually happy to talk to you. Don't adjust the sag as a stop gap because sag is for suspension and not for height. Do get a short seat first too as it will make a real difference. I had one of these on my ktm 450 and it was great. https://seatconcepts.com/collections/crf450l/products/copy-of-honda-2017-19-crf450r-rx-2018-19-crf250r-rx-2019-crf450l-x-comfort-low

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!
College Slice

builds character posted:

Get good is the real answer for you. Once you're better you'll be able to go to one side or the other and put a leg down just fine. For the clutch, maybe get a MME clutch lever if they make them for the CRF - it basically takes a segment of clutch activation (you choose which through adjustment but ideally the part where the clutch engages...) and then spreads that small segment out over the whole pull.

I'm good with that answer. My current bike isn't much shorter. A year or two more of riding I would be OK with the extra height in all scenarios. Just can't panic when your feet don't touch because you are on uneven ground. It's something I'd want fully out of me before I get on that bike every day off road or in all scenarios. The bike handles like a dream, I was able to do low speed moves fine too on flat ground.

The clutch lever sounds nice - it doesn't need to be over the whole pull. I've liked the clutch feel on any other bike I've been on - cbr500r, 1000rr, ninja 250, katana 750, my china bike, versys 300 etc. I feel like that is more of a preference than a get good thing. I don't know why they made the clutch so tight and narrow engagement on the crf450rl.

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:

I'm good with that answer. My current bike isn't much shorter. A year or two more of riding I would be OK with the extra height in all scenarios. Just can't panic when your feet don't touch because you are on uneven ground. It's something I'd want fully out of me before I get on that bike every day off road or in all scenarios. The bike handles like a dream, I was able to do low speed moves fine too on flat ground.

The clutch lever sounds nice - it doesn't need to be over the whole pull. I've liked the clutch feel on any other bike I've been on - cbr500r, 1000rr, ninja 250, katana 750, my china bike, versys 300 etc. I feel like that is more of a preference than a get good thing. I don't know why they made the clutch so tight and narrow engagement on the crf450rl.

Maybe I’m not explaining the clutch lever well. It basically fixes the narrowness. Which can be useful off-road if you’re constantly trying to slip the clutch to modulate power for traction - it’s then easier to stay in that slipping range.

If x is the full range of engage/don’t engage, then it’s kind of like a microscope that focuses in on that section only. Actual engagement hasn’t changed below, just how how much of the pull moves the lever on that part.
Old Pull: [——x——]
New pull: [-xxxxx-]

Sorry, that explanation isn’t great either but I think you might really like it once you got it tuned in.

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!
College Slice
Yeah no that is a perfect explanation and exactly what I want.

right arm
Oct 30, 2011

also it’s a dirt bike so you’re not really riding unless you fall over :D

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

I'll just add that lowering linkages are a crutch for children and generally ruin whatever you put them on. Scooped out seat or a different bike are the right solutions to the problem.

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!

Slavvy posted:

I'll just add that lowering linkages are a crutch for children and generally ruin whatever you put them on. Scooped out seat or a different bike are the right solutions to the problem.

Tried a lowering link on a new KLX300R, can confirm it was terrible. Took it off after one horrible ride and decided to deal with the height.

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

builds character posted:

Some folks will say DO NOT LOWER IT YOU'LL RUIN THE GEOMETRY

Slavvy posted:

I'll just add that lowering linkages are a crutch for children and generally ruin whatever you put them on. Scooped out seat or a different bike are the right solutions to the problem.

:buddy:


Don’t worry though, I got you. https://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/7078

This is one of the reasons Betas are better for it - you can get them lowered factory and they do front and rear and make sure geometry is still good.

T Zero
Sep 26, 2005
When the enemy is in range, so are you
Tried out a couple more bikes recently.

Svartpilen 401: This bike had a Rekluse clutch, which I never got used to. You had to have the revs in a very narrow range to upshift, even with the clutch lever pulled in. When I did get the revs right and did clutchless upshifts, it would shift very abruptly and the bike would jerk. I was mainly riding on streets and highways, so I'm guessing this isn't really the use case for a rekluse.

As for the bike itself, its riding position was very upright compared to my CBR 250 and the handlebars felt really wide. On the highway, it felt like the wind could blow me backward off the bike. Turning took a lot more shoulder movement. I did like the engine and throttle. It felt very punchy and responsive, basically exactly what I wanted on the highway (my own bike is underpowered in this regard). It also felt competent on rougher roads. Probably the most fun street bike I've ridden.

I think I would prefer the Vitpilen version of the bike with lower bars.


Rnine T: I really wanted to like this bike, but ended up not being a fan. It's the most powerful bike I've ridden to date, but it just felt heavy and sluggish. It accelerated and shifted competently, but it didn't seem like it was using all of its power effectively. This is petty, but I didn't like the way the bike vibrates. There was still significant vibration when the bike was cruising and it just felt unpleasant and tiring. I've complained that my CBR is really buzzy on the highway, but even that felt better and more comfortable than the R9. Not a complaint, but the turning radius is wider and takes more effort to initiate a lean, which took some getting used to. I did like the seat too.


General thoughts: Compared to these bikes, my CBR has more of a crouched riding position and it has a small windscreen, and I didn't appreciate how well this combo deflected wind until I tried out these other bikes. I think if I were to buy another bike, I'd want one with a bit more of a forward leaning riding position as I'm quite comfortable holding a crouch for a long period.

Not looking to trade-up anytime soon, but so far, I'm most inclined toward a CB/CBR500 or a Vitpilen as a next bike.

As for other bikes to sample, I'm looking at a Sportster S and and FTR to try next.

MSPain
Jul 14, 2006
interesting stuff about the svart clutch. where do you go to try out bikes?

Toe Rag
Aug 29, 2005

MSPain posted:

interesting stuff about the svart clutch. where do you go to try out bikes?

A Rekluse clutch is an aftermarket thing. It's a centrifugal clutch and mostly installed on trail bikes afaik, so you don't have to worry about stalling out. I've never used one, so I couldn't say if the behavior described is normal, but sounds like something is off to me!

You can rent bikes on Twisted Road and Eagle Rider. Eagle Rider is mostly Harleys, but they have some other stuff, depending on where you are. There may be others, but those are the only two I know. I have not used either.

T Zero
Sep 26, 2005
When the enemy is in range, so are you

MSPain posted:

interesting stuff about the svart clutch. where do you go to try out bikes?

I've been using Riders Share, which is basically like Turo, but for bikes. It's a peer-to-peer service that you book like Air bnb. Depending on the bike it costs between $50 to $120 a day to rent.

quote:

I've never used one, so I couldn't say if the behavior described is normal, but sounds like something is off to me!

It is distinctly possible that this was a worn out or poorly adjusted clutch.

T Zero fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Aug 15, 2022

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!
College Slice
The CBR500R is a nice bike. It's like a ninja 300 or 400, only a little bit more power, but lower rpms. Friend had one for a year before going to the CBR1000RR. Very easy to ride.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Rekluse on a 390 sounds like a recipe for a really rare and unusual disaster, very bizarre.

You have discovered that sport touring bikes are in fact the best kind of bike there is if you want to do any kind of speed or distance without the pretense of off-road capability.

A cbr500 is pretty much exactly like you're imagining in that it's exactly like your 300 but just 50% more in every respect including refinement, they are an excellent example of Just A Bike.

SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:

The CBR500R is a nice bike. It's like a ninja 300 or 400, only a little bit more power, but lower rpms. Friend had one for a year before going to the CBR1000RR. Very easy to ride.

This goes a long way to explaining why he upshifts into corners.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Slavvy posted:


This goes a long way to explaining why he upshifts into corners.

I prefer the grom to cbr1k rider pipeline.

I did a long ride today, ~225 miles, 5.5 hours on the bike with breaks. I think this is the longest time riding in one go. I wanted to give this a test as I plan to take a weekend trip to HWY 191 and part of this route that I did today.

I’m coming to realize that I’m happiest at around 60mph for these longer rides, too much eating wind otherwise. Also time to finally plunk down for the RF1400, this hjc is loud af.

Russian Bear fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Aug 15, 2022

UCS Hellmaker
Mar 29, 2008
Toilet Rascal

Toe Rag posted:

A Rekluse clutch is an aftermarket thing. It's a centrifugal clutch and mostly installed on trail bikes afaik, so you don't have to worry about stalling out. I've never used one, so I couldn't say if the behavior described is normal, but sounds like something is off to me!

You can rent bikes on Twisted Road and Eagle Rider. Eagle Rider is mostly Harleys, but they have some other stuff, depending on where you are. There may be others, but those are the only two I know. I have not used either.

There's a few decent choices near me but god time :negative: that and I really should go get my endorsement, never had a chance due to school and working 90 hour weeks basically the last decade. This really seems like a great way to try out bikes you normally might not see, and definitely would have been nice to have when I was looking before (I do not regret the Valkyrie but it would have saved a headache in some choices)

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!
College Slice
Hm. One thing I am noticing is my grom clone handles like doo doo compared to my versys 300.
Like it leans a lot, so much I can scrape the footpegs - but like doesn't turn as much as the versys with less lean?

And after the track day I did, I guess body weight shifting matters a lot, can reduce lean angle and get the same turn radius. The china bike footpegs would probably snap if I tried.

Is it because the china bike has wide 12 inch tires? The versys has 100-90-19 in the front. China bike 120-70-12.

The tall skinny tire actually seems to turn more when the bike leans.

Proportionally skinny tires don't make a bike turn better given the same lean angle, do they?

I feel like it's also a weight thing. Not sure if I can find stronger footpegs so I could put more weight over the edge of the bike.

I am not tracking the chinabike but what if I ever needed to evade something?

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:

Proportionally skinny tires don't make a bike turn better given the same lean angle, do they?

They absolutely do, the only reason anything has fat tyres is because of big power and associated big brakes. Handy demonstration:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEYEn_fpv-4

Skinny tyres are the only advantage the air cooled clown bike has, draw your own conclusions.

Your china bike will have garbage suspension that causes it to squat down at both ends under even moderate cornering load, it will also have very lazy geometry to avoid you getting thrown off at motorway speeds because the wheelbase is so short. It looks like a recipe for fast cornering on paper but it is actually trash.

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!
College Slice

Slavvy posted:

They absolutely do, the only reason anything has fat tyres is because of big power and associated big brakes. Handy demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEYEn_fpv-4

That is amazing 😂

UCS Hellmaker
Mar 29, 2008
Toilet Rascal
Everything about that video is amazing and you look closer and see so much more poo poo that is jawdropping. A comment says the dude just needs his visor cracked and a cig lit to top it off and it's perfect.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


You can also practically see this with how much more motogp bikes have to lean versus moto3 bikes around the same track.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Russian Bear posted:

You can also practically see this with how much more motogp bikes have to lean versus moto3 bikes around the same track.

Lean more, while going slower in the middle of the corner!

If you want to see some truly absurd corner speed look up some old 125 or 250 races. It pretty much explains the existence of Jorge Lorenzo.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:

My stepfather was riding a CRF450RL. He's been a motocross racer for decades. We were riding in the street, on a pretty steep incline stopped.
I always put my left leg down, right leg on brake. Right hand focuses on throttle when it's time to go.
He was using the front brake, which is harder.

The CRF450RL is both a very tall bike and very easy to stall in first gear.
He stalled it and dumped the bike, got hurt.

The bike has suspension settings for preload, sag, and damping. I don't see anything for ride height.
We are both the same height. Can't really touch the ground at 5'8. Slightly leaned it's fine.

Uhh, in rough terrain I have almost strained my calf I guess on my versys 300, it is also kind of tall, not as tall as this. You shouldn't ever have to put your foot down when moving, I have on a few occasions like tried to stop the bike with the middle part over a hole or dip in the dirt and it is shocking. Have not dumped it yet. I have put my foot down going really slow...rarely. I feel bad if I ever have to do it. The CRF450RL with its height it would not be an option if unstable. You'd have to stop completely and shift your weight and lean to one side, very relaxed.

Is it advisable to put a ride height linkage on the CRF450RL? Or just like get good?
Like I saw exactly what he did wrong. Left foot on the ground on an incline when stopped is almost always the easiest and best thing to do.

Some day I want that bike, but the amount of stuff I'd want to do to it is long, and maybe lowering it an inch or two is on that list.

Or is adjusting sag enough?

The bike has an unforgiving clutch which makes technique stopped on a hill even harder. Not slipper, barely a cush drive. The clutch pulls kind of hard and has a very narrow like actuation area where it slips vs fully engaged.

Is like wanting to do some mods regarding ride height and clutch feel normal, or is it just like a not-beginner friendly high end expensive enduro best left stock in those areas?

Like I got on the bike and rode it around for 10 minutes, I really want one as a sumo bike. Yoshi exhaust. Road tires. Power commander. Maybe a longer clutch handle IDK. Maybe an inch lower. Would be amazingly fun at the track and around town. Not doing distance on it.

Maybe this will help?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yCGAE7ihY8

Toe Rag
Aug 29, 2005

Slavvy posted:

Lean more, while going slower in the middle of the corner!

If you want to see some truly absurd corner speed look up some old 125 or 250 races. It pretty much explains the existence of Jorge Lorenzo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9ikCAnZxew&t=300s

Johann Zarco doing laps in the background. It's wild to see how much he actually slows down. Like the overall corner speed is of course very high, but the "slowest point" is way slower than you'd think.

edit: wrong rider :o:

Toe Rag fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Aug 16, 2022

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Yep. Can't have corner speed and a 200 section tyre, all superbikes are point and shoot.

Invalido
Dec 28, 2005

BICHAELING
Last night I learned that steep downhill corners are indeed tricky. I've heard it said and read about it but never experienced it for myself before so it never registered properly. I still don't know what to do about it but at least I know to slow down next time I encounter one, maybe try to feel what the bike is actually doing. Yesterday all I really noticed in the terrifying moment was that the bike went "nope" and felt low and stiff and didn't steer right when I hit a patch of rough asphalt mid corner. Maybe I bottomed out the fork or something and slid the front tire, I dunno. Didn't crash at least so that's good.

Remy Marathe
Mar 15, 2007

_________===D ~ ~ _\____/

What I find harder about them is gravity helping the bike speed up, so you're gaining speed through a turn that has potential to be tighter than a similar right-hander (if you ride on the right lane). And when you hit it too hot and start to feel nervous, it's really easy to cringe back from "steady throttle" down to what's basically engine braking or even actual braking, and making the front dive.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Invalido posted:

Last night I learned that steep downhill corners are indeed tricky. I've heard it said and read about it but never experienced it for myself before so it never registered properly. I still don't know what to do about it but at least I know to slow down next time I encounter one, maybe try to feel what the bike is actually doing. Yesterday all I really noticed in the terrifying moment was that the bike went "nope" and felt low and stiff and didn't steer right when I hit a patch of rough asphalt mid corner. Maybe I bottomed out the fork or something and slid the front tire, I dunno. Didn't crash at least so that's good.

Do you remember how you set up for the corner?

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Invalido posted:

Last night I learned that steep downhill corners are indeed tricky. I've heard it said and read about it but never experienced it for myself before so it never registered properly. I still don't know what to do about it but at least I know to slow down next time I encounter one, maybe try to feel what the bike is actually doing. Yesterday all I really noticed in the terrifying moment was that the bike went "nope" and felt low and stiff and didn't steer right when I hit a patch of rough asphalt mid corner. Maybe I bottomed out the fork or something and slid the front tire, I dunno. Didn't crash at least so that's good.

Were you on a shut throttle? It is absolutely crucial to avoid doing this on downhill turns as you're putting heaps of weight on the front.

Imo there are two strategies:

1. Go extra slow, extra wide, ride through on a steady throttle and manage the unintended acceleration by dragging the rear brake

2. Cut the corner as straight at possible and ride down on the front brake

Invalido
Dec 28, 2005

BICHAELING
Not sure what I did or didn't do honestly. I was probably a bit spooked and off mentally from gravity induced speed increase and weirdly angled asphalt and I'm sure I did dumb things. I've ridden this road twice before but always uphill. I'll make sure to revisit this corner repeatedly as soon as I get the chance.

Geekboy
Aug 21, 2005

Now that's what I call a geekMAN!
This is basically what I was talking about a few weeks/a month or so back.

I’ve been engine braking more on those curves and leaning on the rear brake more than the front brake, but using both when the engine and rear aren’t quite cutting it.

The hill I go down is really steep and really slow, so it’s good practice for these techniques.

I have not been coasting and just using the brake because Slavvy told me I was the literal devil for doing so. It’s steep enough and twisty enough that I could turn off the engine at the top of the hill and never go below the speed limit.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

I mean if you're coasting and using the brake you aren't coasting, you're braking...?

On most bikes, only using the rear on a steep down hill will lead to an easy lock because it has less weight on it that usual. On a Milwaukee pig it's probably fine because you have so much weight and wheelbase, you'll just also have zero ground clearance so you'll have to go super duper slow, which is totally fine.

You can solve most difficulties by just going way slower.

Slavvy fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Aug 22, 2022

Geekboy
Aug 21, 2005

Now that's what I call a geekMAN!
I had it in neutral and you said that was a terrible way to do things (and I listened, so I don’t do it anymore). That’s what I meant by “coasting.” Sorry I wasn’t clearer.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Ok yeah being in neutral is a crime lol

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Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
How terrible of an idea would it be to buy a bike with a salvage title as my first? I just passed the MSF, and was checking out the local options, and one caught my eye.

Supposedly it was dropped, busted the fairings enough to total it, then converted to a naked (a style I prefer). According to the seller, there was no mechanical damage, and the salvage title brings a newer bike with abs into my price range so it’s pretty tempting.

I haven’t looked at it yet, but assuming it passes muster (I’m fairly mechanically inclined, just with no experience with bikes; I would bring a friend who rides as a sanity check) how likely am I to make a terrible mistake?

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