Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

The inflation bill has tons of incentives for all of that. Dryers, stoves, heat pumps, water heaters. It even includes cash for panel upgrades.

SpartanIvy posted:

E2: I found a news article claiming the rebates are only available to households below 150% of AMI. So while that's more generous than usual, it's still going to exclude a lot of people because there's a lot of low income people that drag the AMI down, and the people in houses in a position to even think about upgrading are probably above that 150% threshold. I guess if you're a Boomer on social security and a bunch in savings this'll help you upgrade your McMansion or whatever.

Qwijib0 posted:

For those who do not qualify for these rebates, the Inflation Reduction Act will grant tax credits for a heat pump installation (up to $2,000) and other energy-saving installations, like an induction stove or new windows or doors (up to $1,200 a year).


Out of curiosity I looked up the AMI for my city and 150% for a single person would be 75K, there are huge swaths of homes around me that would benefit if the census data by zip is to be believed.

SpartanIvy posted:

I realize I'm being pessimistic but I'd wait until the fine print comes out before I sign any installation contracts. I can easily see them throwing in provisions that you have to have a 5 ton or greater heatpump installed to qualify, or a minimum of 30 windows, or something asinine to that affect.

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

The inflation bill has tons of incentives for all of that. Dryers, stoves, heat pumps, water heaters. It even includes cash for panel upgrades.

Qwijib0 posted:

For those who do not qualify for these rebates, the Inflation Reduction Act will grant tax credits for a heat pump installation (up to $2,000) and other energy-saving installations, like an induction stove or new windows or doors (up to $1,200 a year).


Out of curiosity I looked up the AMI for my city and 150% for a single person would be 75K, there are huge swaths of homes around me that would benefit if the census data by zip is to be believed.

Danhenge posted:

Last i heard the panel upgrade incentive was capped at 150% of the median local income.

Edit: I see we've gotten there.

Edit 2:

Thought about this some more. What's the median home value in your area? Is it actually in reach of someone making 75K?

slurm posted:

Everything has to be electrified eventually and items with mass-produced drop-in replacements are an obvious place to start, but talk about a drop in the bucket if you're just doing stoves and not heating, dryers, water heaters, etc. all at once.

Vim Fuego posted:

Yay, Samsung dryer stopped heating again. Looks like the last time I tore it down and replaced the heating element was 2018. I guess 4 years isn't bad for a replacement part.

I've ordered a replacement element, fuse, and thermostat kit so ideally I only have to take it apart once, diagnose, and then put it back together.

His Divine Shadow posted:

It's not like even the video claims it's gonna fix climate change so that's a complete strawman... But if you're changing stoves why not look into alternatives? Gas kinda has a lot of real disadvantages that are not climate related. Particularly their inefficiency and spewing heat around the room and also around the pots and pans itself and any utensils you might leave in the pan, small annoying things like that. The only reason I could see for gas was if I had a lot of old non induction pots and a bad electric supply. But if I had a decent electric supply I'd chose an electric stove over gas personally. I've cooked on those all my life and never had a problem. I was pretty surprised to hear that an electric actually boils a pot of water faster than gas at the same rating.

In my world gas is mostly relegated to the grill or camp stove.

His Divine Shadow posted:

It's not like even the video claims it's gonna fix climate change so that's a complete strawman... But if you're changing stoves why not look into alternatives? Gas kinda has a lot of real disadvantages that are not climate related. Particularly their inefficiency and spewing heat around the room and also around the pots and pans itself and any utensils you might leave in the pan, small annoying things like that. The only reason I could see for gas was if I had a lot of old non induction pots and a bad electric supply. But if I had a decent electric supply I'd chose an electric stove over gas personally. I've cooked on those all my life and never had a problem. I was pretty surprised to hear that an electric actually boils a pot of water faster than gas at the same rating.

In my world gas is mostly relegated to the grill or camp stove.

SpartanIvy posted:

I don't think anyone is against induction or electric cook tops in general, but the sensationalism about how bad gas stoves are for you and the world and how evil natural gas providers are for existing is just over the top. Gas stoves are fine. Natural gas for residential use is fine. Everything will be electric eventually but there's no hurry to get there assuming your stove and stuff is setup right.

I personally like my gas because when ERCOT fails I can still cook food, heat my house, have hot water on tap, and run my little generator.

SpartanIvy posted:

Gas stoves are fine. Natural gas for residential use is fine.

quote:

To guage the impact of these emissions, researchers measured three key gasses from stoves in 53 homes across seven California counties. The team chose two gasses—methane and carbon dioxide—because of their contribution to climate change, and selected nitrogen oxides because of their known risk to human health. The scientists set up plastic partitions between the kitchens and other rooms and used instruments that measure wavelengths of light to determine the concentration of certain gases.

To their surprise, they found that more than three-quarters of the methane emissions happened when both old and new gas stoves were turned off.

The most significant health risks happen when the stove is lit, the authors note, because the process creates nitrogen dioxide as a byproduct. Increasing airflow by using a range hood can help reduce the personal health risk of natural gas-burning appliances, but most individuals report rarely using their ventilation system.

In a small kitchen, it only took a few minutes of unventilated stove use to generate emissions levels above national health standards. According to a meta-analysis from 2013, children living in homes with gas stoves were 42 percent more likely to experience symptoms associated with asthma, and 24 percent more likely to be diagnosed with lifetime asthma.

In addition to health risks, natural gas burning stoves also imperil the planet by releasing methane. While carbon dioxide gets the most attention in conversations about climate change, methane is a huge contributor to planetary warming. Following carbon dioxide, methane is the second most abundant greenhouse gas that humans have pumped into the atmosphere, accounting for about 20 percent of global emissions. Although methane dissipates more quickly than carbon dioxide, it is especially concerning because of its heat-trapping power, which is more than 25 times as potent as carbon dioxide. The team estimated that stoves emit between 0.8 and 1.3 percent of the natural gas they consume as unburned methane.

Arsenic Lupin posted:

A new study came out this year.

actionjackson posted:

you also can only use a range hood if you have ducting available that goes from it's location to outside, which not a lot of people do (or it's cost prohibitive)

SpartanIvy posted:

Well if you want to bring cost into it, what do you think is cheaper? Running a 50 amp circuit to the kitchen or putting in ventilation ducting?

devmd01 posted:

Getting a proper vent hood installed is on the to-do list, but I’m gonna pay someone for that. Should be easy, it’s a punch straight out the wall scenario above the stove but brick exterior makes that a bit more of a pain in the rear end.

actionjackson posted:

most people have an above range microwave that has ventilation, which is not ideal but better than nothing. so there's really no additional cost as this is pretty standard in american housing at least

DaveSauce posted:

When we're talking about combustion gasses, a recirculating fan is not the same as an exterior vent. Unless you have non-standard filtration, all you're doing is moving

Those are meant to capture grease and maybe some smoke/odor if they have a charcoal filter, not methane or CO2.

Motronic posted:

Microwave vent hoods can be exterior vented. Every single one I've ever removed or installed has provisions for both. So simply being a microwave vent hood doesn't mean it's recirculating.

DaveSauce posted:

Because while most OTR microwaves CAN be exterior vented, the vast majority are not in my experience.

DaveSauce posted:

Maybe I misread the post, but I was assuming the word "most" in the context of the conversation was meant to say that in the absence of external ventilation, then at least the built-in fan was better than nothing.

Because while most OTR microwaves CAN be exterior vented, the vast majority are not in my experience.

SpartanIvy posted:

Read back in the thread a bit and you'll see all these points argued already.

The tldr is that people need to use a vent hood and that residential gas cooktop use is such a small piece of global warming it's inconsequential and basically just industry trying to shift the perceived burden of global warming onto consumers.

Arsenic Lupin posted:

You missed the part about the increased rates of childhood asthma, I take it.

actionjackson posted:

Arsenic Lupin posted:

A new study came out this year.