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i don’t understand how cops, which effectively already have a monopoly on policing, need a union.
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Aug 9, 2022 20:26
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yummycheese posted:i don’t understand how cops, which effectively already have a monopoly on policing, need a union.
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Aug 9, 2022 20:30
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Shaggar posted:cop unions are absolutely unions No, they are not. Unions are about worker's rights, Cop unions are about ensuring non-workers have more rights than everyone else.
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Aug 9, 2022 20:33
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yummycheese posted:i don’t understand how cops, which effectively already have a monopoly on policing, need a union. forming a labor monopoly is the entire point of a union, but all public sector unions work a little differently as there are no competitors for government employment. CommieGIR posted:No, they are not. Unions are about worker's rights, Cop unions are about ensuring non-workers have more rights than everyone else. cop unions are absolutely about workers rights. the workers in this case are the cops and they are guaranteeing their rights to keep their jobs despite complaints from management. they're an incredibly effective union.
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Aug 9, 2022 20:36
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How does one form an union with management? 
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Aug 9, 2022 20:39
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management is the public employers. they arent part of the cop unions
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Aug 9, 2022 20:39
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If I form a union at my company, will my manager join? After all our employer is the company itself.
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Aug 9, 2022 20:43
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don't confuse unions for fraternal orders of police which usually exist alongside the unions and management can join and are even worseAnimeIsTrash posted:If I form a union at my company, will my manager join? After all our employer is the company itself. in computer toucher world there are much blurrier edges between individual contributors and managers, you have a lot of senior ics with one or two direct reports, etc.
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Aug 9, 2022 20:47
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Shaggar posted:cop unions are absolutely about workers rights. the workers in this case are the cops and they are guaranteeing their rights to keep their jobs despite complaints from management. they're an incredibly effective union. But its not used for worker's rights, its used to escape transparency, consequence, and accountability. Its not a union.
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Aug 9, 2022 20:53
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qirex posted:in computer toucher world there are much blurrier edges between individual contributors and managers, you have a lot of senior ics with one or two direct reports, etc. Are they a worker or part of management? I'd say worker, unless their role is directly management. Isn't that similar to a shift lead at a restaurant? Also you're right I confused the FOP and the "union", opps.
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Aug 9, 2022 20:53
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CommieGIR posted:But its not used for worker's rights, its used to escape transparency, consequence, and accountability. when it comes to police, you and I are management. We view the police as lacking transparency, consequence, and accountability. They believe we are trying to take away their rights to do the work the way they want to do it which in their minds includes things like their own personal safety. You or I might want 100 cops to die protecting children from a hail of bullets, they want to not have to do anything that puts them in danger. its a massive disconnect between management (us) and the workers (police). they are using their collective power to advocate against what we want. it is a union
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Aug 9, 2022 21:02
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Shaggar posted:when it comes to police, you and I are management. stopped reading there
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Aug 9, 2022 21:06
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https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1557031780477181953 some highlights: https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1557031803491233795 https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1557031814434213895 https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1557031819148546048 i don’t work in IT but this seems particularly nightmarish
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Aug 9, 2022 21:06
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everyone still uses CICS
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Aug 9, 2022 21:07
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:stopped reading there your midwest education is worse than i thought, smdh.
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Aug 9, 2022 21:07
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Shaggar posted:your midwest education is worse than i thought, smdh. The police answer to capital, any suggestion that you or I or any member of the public has any say or place in what they do is laughable.
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Aug 9, 2022 21:09
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The cops were doing a revolutionary act when they killed a member of management (george floyd).
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Aug 9, 2022 21:09
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AnimeIsTrash posted:The cops were doing a revolutionary act when they killed a member of management (george floyd). in their eyes 100%
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Aug 9, 2022 21:10
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CommieGIR posted:But its not used for worker's rights, its used to escape transparency, consequence, and accountability. cops are "workers" just like anyone else. they have an extremely powerful union of workers with the benefits of political protection, little public accountability, and also they have guns.
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Aug 9, 2022 21:10
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fart simpson posted:about 10 years ago, a group of 3000 workers at a chinese factory "confronted" their new boss and killed him in a conference room to protest the privatization of their factory. and they got off totally free and won, the privatization was canceled. the system works American workers are capable of killing their bosses.
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Aug 9, 2022 21:10
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FAT BATMAN posted:https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1557031780477181953 in 10 years it will be the same and their excuse will be that they dont know what happened to the $80 billion and that none of the approved vendors could provide a solution
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Aug 9, 2022 21:10
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The_Franz posted:it's 2nd grade, basically daycare where kids learn to add double digit numbers, and teachers have been like this since time immemorial, you just never knew about it. teachers are people and have lives outside of school, but it's still generally a good idea to keep your social media private because of people like this teachers are like nurses - they fuckin love mdma
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Aug 9, 2022 21:16
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it seems to me that any improvement to the IT infrastructure, no matter how seemingly minor, would be a drastic improvement over COBOL and manual entry. if you upgrade something that still needs to talk to old hardware, that’s what VMs are for, right? as long as there’s funding, there should be plenty of easy wins to make for IT. unless, I guess, all their approved vendors went out of business decades ago
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Aug 9, 2022 21:25
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CommieGIR posted:But its not used for worker's rights, its used to escape transparency, consequence, and accountability. no, you see i don't like cops, therefore it isn't a union.
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Aug 9, 2022 21:29
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That's a CICS interface and CICS is still supported and used all over the place, it all runs on VMs on IBM machines with big service contracts. It's just easy to show a text screen to your audience and say "look, how primitive" if it's a text cell interface Any lack of updating for stuff like 4+ dependents is the fault of the IRS, not inherent limitations in what they're using.
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Aug 9, 2022 21:30
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castro really hosed us over by letting a bunch of rich shitheads escape cuba
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Aug 9, 2022 21:34
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Shaggar posted:in 10 years it will be the same and their excuse will be that they dont know what happened to the $80 billion and that none of the approved vendors could provide a solution shagger was right
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Aug 9, 2022 21:40
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:castro really hosed us over by letting a bunch of rich shitheads escape cuba i agree, but i also agree with a lot of what she said
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Aug 9, 2022 21:41
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maybe the government should just employ programmers full time on staff instead
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Aug 9, 2022 21:41
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Shaggar posted:cop unions are absolutely unions Improbable Lobster posted:cop unions aren't unions; if unions were made illegal tomorrow the cops would be blowing out workers brains the same day
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Aug 9, 2022 21:43
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Asymmetric POSTer posted:maybe the government should just employ programmers full time on staff instead remember the first attempt at healthcare.gov? i could have used a chunk of that $2B contract money
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Aug 9, 2022 21:47
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Roosevelt posted:remember the first attempt at healthcare.gov? i could have used a chunk of that $2B contract money It's alright they'll give it to a small business contractor this time.
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Aug 9, 2022 21:48
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Computer was a mistake. The IRS simply learned that lesson decades before the rest of us and is leading the way.
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Aug 9, 2022 21:52
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Improbable Lobster posted:cop unions aren't unions; if unions were made illegal tomorrow the cops would be blowing out workers brains the same day i legit have no idea what you think you mean here
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Aug 9, 2022 21:56
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Roosevelt posted:cops are "workers" just like anyone else. they have an extremely powerful union of workers with the benefits of political protection, little public accountability, and also they have guns. cops are absolutely not workers, gently caress off
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Aug 9, 2022 22:04
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Stringent posted:i legit have no idea what you think you mean here Cops would still have unions even if they made unions illegal, because cop unions serve capital and aren't real unions
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Aug 9, 2022 22:05
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'special bodies of armed men' is the engels term for police/pinkertons/death squads/etc that are created to convert the power of the ruling class into force, they are distinct from workers from the marxist (and leninist and maoist and even trotskyist or anarchist and so on) perspective
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Aug 9, 2022 22:45
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atelier morgan posted:'special bodies of armed men' is the engels term for police/pinkertons/death squads/etc that are created to convert the power of the ruling class into force, they are distinct from workers from the marxist (and leninist and maoist and even trotskyist or anarchist and so on) perspective yeah, well, welcome to the US of A pal
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Aug 9, 2022 22:50
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Roosevelt posted:yeah, well, welcome to the US of A pal true, 'murica has the unique twist where they existed originally to enforce dominion over slaves and that just sort of expanded to abusing everybody else (but especially still terrorizing the descendants of the slaves)
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Aug 9, 2022 22:56
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https://twitter.com/RossMcCaff/status/1557025583162351617 phew
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Aug 9, 2022 23:00
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