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A Buttery Pastry posted:I mean, I get that renewables = less stable, but I'm not sure why the problems associated with an increase in gas prices should be laid at the feet of renewables. Like, would we be better off being more reliant on gas? The dude even says that coal is not a viable alternative in Germany due to low water levels. https://twitter.com/BurggrabenH/status/1554969281972113408?s=20&t=WeiIdL18ErQL7VMl_tzZdw He is right tho, coal, gas and nuclear go all day merrily, wind and solar do not. His point is that you need a real baseline to keep the factories working which cannot be done by the most common kind of renewables(and you cannot sink Europe with new hydro lakes).
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Aug 6, 2022 17:01
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Well the point of that is to have battery reserves. Something we could also do with fossil fuels.
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Aug 6, 2022 17:56
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Renewables = gas or other fossil fuel backups when hydro is not available, which it's not in anywhere near enough capacity. Renewables are a big part of why gas is so important to Germanys energiewende and why they fought to make it classified as greeen even though it's fossil fuel as gently caress.
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Aug 6, 2022 18:13
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Tesseraction posted:Well the point of that is to have battery reserves. Something we could also do with fossil fuels. Battery reserves = fossil fuels at this point and there's no real workable large scale alternative in existence yet and there won't be for decades. Pinning your hopes on battery storage to fix renewables intermittency problems is like pinning your hopes on fusion at this point.
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Aug 6, 2022 18:15
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SlowBloke posted:https://twitter.com/BurggrabenH/status/1554969281972113408?s=20&t=WeiIdL18ErQL7VMl_tzZdw His Divine Shadow posted:Renewables = gas or other fossil fuel backups when hydro is not available, which it's not in anywhere near enough capacity.
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Aug 6, 2022 20:07
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His Divine Shadow posted:Battery reserves = fossil fuels at this point and there's no real workable large scale alternative in existence yet and there won't be for decades. Pinning your hopes on battery storage to fix renewables intermittency problems is like pinning your hopes on fusion at this point. Is your point that we need fission as the backup? Because I agree, at least in the short to medium term.
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Aug 6, 2022 23:17
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Fission is good. Tidal is also underrated. Difficult/expensive to set up but the one thing that nobody can say about the tides is that they're unreliable. (Except for that UK MP who claimed tidal was unreliable a couple years back, but there's always one.)
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Aug 6, 2022 23:21
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Guavanaut posted:Fission is good. Tidal is also underrated. Difficult/expensive to set up but the one thing that nobody can say about the tides is that they're unreliable. (Except for that UK MP who claimed tidal was unreliable a couple years back, but there's always one.)
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Aug 7, 2022 05:16
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Gas is cheap and reliable, who knows when the moon is next going to come around? - Conservatives, 2018
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Aug 7, 2022 13:41
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Turns out Germany is loving with their emissions numbers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD0sq5GN7xc So basically if they're burning coal and solar comes online to cover for the coal, they just disconnect the turbine of the coal plant from the grid, but they're still burning the coal! They just don't report those emissions.
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Aug 10, 2022 08:53
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His Divine Shadow posted:Turns out Germany is loving with their emissions numbers Ah yes, Volkswagon 2: Carbon Boogaloo
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Aug 10, 2022 11:18
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hosed up if true. I mean literally, it's just some guy on a mountain saying it. I thought it's easier to ramp coal up and down with demand but maybe it's specific to lignite.
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Aug 10, 2022 12:16
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Depending on the type of coal technology 9 hours or so with the possibility of failed starts. Many boilers will need to burn heavy fuel oil or natural gas to get them up to temperature before solid fuel is introduced, and environmental measures (SO2 scrubbing and baghouses) might not be working at full efficiency until the boiler is heated. The boiler will be using a lot less coal when that steam isn't going anywhere though, so it may be the case that it's more efficient (cost and energy) and paradoxically better for the environment to keep the boiler hot with a low amount of coal while the solar is producing. Especially if it's using natural gas for the preheat and there's an eye on reserves.
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Aug 10, 2022 12:31
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I think most people probably thought a coal plan could just burn more or less coal and that was how it throttled the things, but I guess once it's up and burning there's a lot of inertia and it's not like you can just put it out directly. Makes sense the stack or whatever it's called is slower to react so they throttle using oher methods. That should definitely be included in figures though even if it does not produce power. If mountain guy is correct.
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Aug 10, 2022 12:34
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https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1557771709083799552 Is the explicitly far right anti immigration party not far right enough anymore
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Aug 11, 2022 20:06
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Badger of Basra posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1557771709083799552
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Aug 11, 2022 20:16
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Badger of Basra posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1557771709083799552 X Æ A-11.2 Musk
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Aug 11, 2022 20:49
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Badger of Basra posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1557771709083799552 I'm having a hard time coming up with other positives about there being that many racists in Denmark. 
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Aug 12, 2022 08:51
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I suppose the best that can come from this is that it splits helps split the vote between the racists? Maybe, but I'm sceptical. If mainstream political parties continue business as usual and it means the media will devote more space to white grievance politics, you could end up with both together taking a bigger voting share than back when it was just one neo-fascist party. Especially when one of them can put on a more respectable face and looks more 'moderate' by comparison. It's happened in the Netherlands, in Flanders and in France, as far as I know.
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Aug 12, 2022 18:52
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Pope Hilarius II posted:Maybe, but I'm sceptical. If mainstream political parties continue business as usual and it means the media will devote more space to white grievance politics, you could end up with both together taking a bigger voting share than back when it was just one neo-fascist party. Especially when one of them can put on a more respectable face and looks more 'moderate' by comparison. It's happened in the Netherlands, in Flanders and in France, as far as I know. Add Italy to the list, there has always been a far right party to blow smoke and a handful of slightly less right parties to look presidential in the last three decades at least.
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Aug 12, 2022 19:13
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Pope Hilarius II posted:Maybe, but I'm sceptical. If mainstream political parties continue business as usual and it means the media will devote more space to white grievance politics, you could end up with both together taking a bigger voting share than back when it was just one neo-fascist party. Especially when one of them can put on a more respectable face and looks more 'moderate' by comparison. It's happened in the Netherlands, in Flanders and in France, as far as I know.
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Aug 12, 2022 20:14
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støjberg's also a genuine political talent and not a literal brain-damaged moron like paludan, and she has government experience and managed to spin getting convicted for knowingly breaking the law so she could be extra mean to asylum seekers as some kind of martyrdom DF is really missing pia kjærsgaard about now. thulesen dahl was a non-entity and morten messerschmidt has a very obvious patrick bateman energy to him and is quite off-putting. støjberg has impeccable racist bona fides as well as appearing more respectable, so she's able to carve out space for herself in a presently rather weak right-wing space.
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Aug 12, 2022 21:27
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The pattern seen in Australia is that the mainstream conservatives parties gleefully take white grievance politics and racism onboard to fend off rightward challengers, until even the left-liberal social democrat parties consider policies like refugee concentration camps to be standard and their reversal to be unthinkable loony left nonsense.
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Aug 13, 2022 06:29
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So here's another video on europe by Mark Blyth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWjKvehIumg The long and short of it seems to be the EU is locked itself into a failing business model, the german export model. It's failing because the places we wanna trade with want to run export surpluses themselves. The EU needs to orient away from being one big germany that exports to the rest of a world that less and less wants to import our stuff and instead want to make their own stuff. In that vein, the EU should refocus it's own economy to be more about domestic consumption as well and that could actually be a pretty drat impressive economic block if we could put our minds to it, we got more people than the USA here.
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Aug 14, 2022 06:21
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His Divine Shadow posted:So here's another video on europe by Mark Blyth Unfortunately I imagine that'll run into the usual roadblock of requiring them to spend money on things, like building things and paying people.
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Aug 14, 2022 10:01
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I have zero faith in the EU to do the right thing, particularly when the right thing is investing in Chinese green technology while the Yanks protest
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Aug 14, 2022 11:28
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The right thing to do is developing your own tech and not being dependant on the US or China for either tech or resources, didn't we just learn that lesson from Russia? Don't get dependant on others, it does not create peace through trade, it just makes you an easier target. The EU is as large as either China or the US, plus we have Greenland via Denmark. We could well become independent on rare earths and minerals using our existing resources for instance.
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Aug 14, 2022 11:54
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Gosh, I wonder how it came to be that Europe has literally zero domestic tech industry footprint and is wholly reliant on its (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 14, 2022 12:57
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His Divine Shadow posted:The right thing to do is developing your own tech and not being dependant on the US or China for either tech or resources, didn't we just learn that lesson from Russia? Don't get dependant on others, it does not create peace through trade, it just makes you an easier target. yeah imagine if china shut off the solar pipelines
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Aug 14, 2022 13:59
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His Divine Shadow posted:The right thing to do is developing your own tech and not being dependant on the US or China for either tech or resources, didn't we just learn that lesson from Russia? Don't get dependant on others, it does not create peace through trade, it just makes you an easier target. This is one hot potato, cause exploitation of rares in Greenland would produce uranium. And the danish and greenlandic government are quite opposed to that at the moment.
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Aug 14, 2022 19:57
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vuk83 posted:This is one hot potato, cause exploitation of rares in Greenland would produce uranium. And the danish and greenlandic government are quite opposed to that at the moment. I know, but Greenland was the best example, it's obviously up to the greenlanders to decide and hopefully with some form of state owned business or department if it ever happens to make sure the profits mainly go to the greenlanders. There's no reason rare earths couldn't be mined in continental europe though. Uranium is something we might need (reprocessing existing waste on a large enouch scale could make mining obsolete, just mining is cheaper) and at least Sweden has uranium deposits.
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Aug 15, 2022 04:11
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mortons stork posted:Gosh, I wonder how it came to be that Europe has literally zero domestic tech industry footprint and is wholly reliant on its Is it really true though? Europe does have tech industry, or how do you define tech industry? We're lagging behind in areas but for sure we have tech industry in several forms. Even in very high tech areas. Nuclear for instance, France is one of the very few countries today who can make large nuclear pressure vessels, they also maintain a load of high tech industrial sectors with leading edge competence. Another example I recently learned of is TSMC in Taiwan, their chip fab processes are all dependant on a european tech company called ASML, their EUV light source is the key to modern chip fabbing. That's a european company in the veyr bleeding edge of technology. In europe we also have the large hadron collider and we're working on ITER here and the germans also wendelstein 7-x is worked on in germany. Just to mention a few examples. Seems to me we do have lots of tech industry and plenty of it is world leading. The EU has also taken steps to reduce dependency on external sources in 2022 when it comes to semiconductors, remains to be seen how it pans out. So I dunno how you mean we lack a tech industry, do you mean an equivalent to google and facebook and similar? That's one area we're lagging in yes.
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Aug 15, 2022 08:24
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But all we get to be is middlemen, especially as regards computer and software engineering. Part of a process that starts overseas and ends overseas. Chip fabrication is in China, but the companies doing the designs, R&D and engineering are not based in Europe, they are American, or based in Asia. This is the crucial poo poo that we don't control. It's the same story with the algorithms that now rule our lives, as well as AI development, that work gets done elsewhere, we just pick the scraps falling off the table. It's true that American companies are not (yet) fully vertically integrated in their supply chain, but they at the very least control the top. So do the tech giants from Asia more or less.
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Aug 15, 2022 09:14
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mortons stork posted:But all we get to be is middlemen, especially as regards computer and software engineering. Part of a process that starts overseas and ends overseas. Chip fabrication is in China, but the companies doing the designs, R&D and engineering are not based in Europe, they are American, or based in Asia. This is the crucial poo poo that we don't control. It's the same story with the algorithms that now rule our lives, as well as AI development, that work gets done elsewhere, we just pick the scraps falling off the table. One of the biggest IC producer in the world, STMicro, is the result of an italian-french merger, and has several plants in continental europe. They are just working on a B2B basis rather than selling consumer wares.
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Aug 15, 2022 09:22
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A lot of industrial tech is in the EU as well. Think all the stuff Siemens, Bosch, Kuka make. think the issue is that most visible consumer facing tech is US based, like Apple, MS, Google, Facebook, Amazon. They also happen to be printing money in a way none of the European companies are.
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Aug 15, 2022 09:32
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Because the Americans make the baseline stuff on which the rest of business is built, eg Microsoft makes both software and hardware that is then the basis for functioning of most commercial enterprises in the world. Oracle, for another example. Remember that when Russia got sanctioned from American software like 70% of their business sector relied on its support. Any advances we make are tied to the limits of that platform, which we don't own. European tech is not competing in the same field, hierarchically.
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Aug 15, 2022 09:51
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I would argue more that the current predicament of the tech sector is a self inflicted wound. Computing since time immemorial has always been seen as a academic past time with only very limited industrial interest in development(it it doesn't improve production it can gently caress well off). Patent protection on algorithms and code is very recent and most algorithms and code of value in Europe were given away in academic papers anyway. We are in the poo poo on computing because we didn't give it the attention it needed when the time was right so we are now in a desperate race to claw back some clout(and failing badly at it).
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Aug 15, 2022 10:05
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mortons stork posted:But all we get to be is middlemen, especially as regards computer and software engineering. Part of a process that starts overseas and ends overseas. Chip fabrication is in China, but the companies doing the designs, R&D and engineering are not based in Europe, they are American, or based in Asia. This is the crucial poo poo that we don't control. It's the same story with the algorithms that now rule our lives, as well as AI development, that work gets done elsewhere, we just pick the scraps falling off the table. This has real reasons that have nothing to do with conspiracy nonsense like Joe Biden keeping the poor European business man down. Most of western Europe is just not really a regulatorily or culturally competitive environment for tech startups. Nor do most countries even really have the investment industry infrastructure for it. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is debatable, but we made our own bed here so no reason to complain unless we want to change that. mobby_6kl posted:A lot of industrial tech is in the EU as well. Think all the stuff Siemens, Bosch, Kuka make. think the issue is that most visible consumer facing tech is US based, like Apple, MS, Google, Facebook, Amazon. They also happen to be printing money in a way none of the European companies are. You'd be amazed how often some world market leader/monopolists of some high tech piece of equipment or technology turns out to be a random rear end hidden champion 50-200 employee family business in rural Germany that nobody has ever heard of. It's kinda scary sometimes. Entire global industry depend on some rigidity rear end shop where IT security is handled by the owner's nephew and one of the business critical contractors is some old university friend who works from his basement at night and misses half of the project meetings because they slept in.
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Aug 15, 2022 10:15
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I would not say that Joe Biden personally conspired to keep the european tech sector down, more like american monopoly capital has achieved dominance decades ago, currently controls the gears and infrastructural pathways that make our economies work, and has never been reigned in. If you wanna argue that the fair competition obsessed EU apparatus just couldn't figure out the problem of NOT allowing american monopoly capital to do what I said it did, and thus is staggeringly incompetent as opposed to politically subordinate to washington that's your call to make. You don't get to dismiss the issue as conspiracy talk lol
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Aug 15, 2022 10:42
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mobby_6kl posted:A lot of industrial tech is in the EU as well. Think all the stuff Siemens, Bosch, Kuka make. think the issue is that most visible consumer facing tech is US based, like Apple, MS, Google, Facebook, Amazon. They also happen to be printing money in a way none of the European companies are. Yeah. It's mostly the latter, because I can even think of some consumer niches that are visibly dominated by European companies/brands, like luxury goods.
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Aug 15, 2022 15:05
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