Ridicule Audiophiles - Find the cat shit's resonant frequency

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Ridicule Audiophiles - Find the cat shit's resonant frequency

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Mr. Mercury: Aug 13, 2021

honestly the $10k USD audio cables are less ethical than that imho so yeah, p funny

# ? Aug 6, 2022 05:06

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# ? May 22, 2024 12:59

smellmycheese: Feb 1, 2016

KozmoNaut posted:

It's especially important to listen to it in mono, because of Bluetooth speakers etc., as you mentioned. A mix that sounds good in stereo can get really messed up in the downmix to mono, because of phase differences between the channels, leading to weird cancellations and warbly sound.

And yet weirdly this process is not followed in TV production. Which is what leads to the many audio complaints about muddy dialogue, and also to visual fiascos like the legendary pitch dark Battle of Winterfell GoT epsiode. Looked great no doubt in a dark edit suite in 4k. Looked like dogshit once it had been crushed down for transmission through cable and satellite codecs and then watched on cheap LED TVs with bad blacks.

# ? Aug 6, 2022 07:12

Dirt Road Junglist: Oct 8, 2010; We will be cruel
And through our cruelty
They will know who we are

smellmycheese posted:

And yet weirdly this process is not followed in TV production. Which is what leads to the many audio complaints about muddy dialogue, and also to visual fiascos like the legendary pitch dark Battle of Winterfell GoT epsiode. Looked great no doubt in a dark edit suite in 4k. Looked like dogshit once it had been crushed down for transmission through cable and satellite codecs and then watched on cheap LED TVs with bad blacks.

Even with good blacks on a plasma, it couldn't help the horrendous artifacting.

# ? Aug 7, 2022 02:49

Mister Speaker: May 8, 2007; WE WILL CONTROL
ALL THAT YOU SEE
AND HEAR

smellmycheese posted:

And yet weirdly this process is not followed in TV production. Which is what leads to the many audio complaints about muddy dialogue,

Yeah this is bizarre to me. Literally every single person I know who watches a lot of 'premium TV' and movies at home has this complaint. Loads of people turn on subtitles or switch off their receivers in favour of their TV's internal speakers; I've tried jacking up my center channel volume in fits of frustration only to be deafened by VO next time I out on a documentary.

I really don't understand it. How hard is it to keep a crap tv or even a consumer 5.1 system in your mixdown studio for reference? I also wish I'd done more research before buying my own receiver, because the 'night mode' might as well not be there at all.

Kind of makes me miss the old days of running my old computer tower as a media server and using VLC's limiter to flatten movie mixdowns. It didn't sound pretty, but it did the job.

# ? Aug 7, 2022 03:37

triple sulk: Sep 17, 2014

Mr. Mercury posted:

honestly the $10k USD audio cables are less ethical than that imho so yeah, p funny

IEM cables in particular are the biggest scam in audio if only because of how frequently new top end models are pushed out. It's at least every six months if not quarterly at this point, and people buy up every release because they really need that bass to finally be tightened up and the veil lifted.

# ? Aug 7, 2022 05:05

strtj: Feb 1, 2010

For some reason Hackaday is giving away a plasma tweeter as prize:
https://hackaday.com/2022/08/08/a-plasma-tweeter-for-ultimate-clarity/

But this technology was pretty much totally debunked in the '50s and '60s. It has ambient noise inherent in the design, it generates ozone, and it has a finite lifespan:
http://www.roger-russell.com/ionovac/ionovac.htm

Oh, and did I mention the horrible IM distortion? But in theory it's a perfect point source, so people still cling to it I guess.

I did always want to hear one, just to see how it worked.

# ? Aug 8, 2022 19:24

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

strtj posted:

For some reason Hackaday is giving away a plasma tweeter as prize:
https://hackaday.com/2022/08/08/a-plasma-tweeter-for-ultimate-clarity/

But this technology was pretty much totally debunked in the '50s and '60s. It has ambient noise inherent in the design, it generates ozone, and it has a finite lifespan:
http://www.roger-russell.com/ionovac/ionovac.htm

Oh, and did I mention the horrible IM distortion? But in theory it's a perfect point source, so people still cling to it I guess.

I did always want to hear one, just to see how it worked.

I think it falls squarely in the "cool but impractical" category, which is the endgame of like 90% of hobbies.

# ? Aug 8, 2022 19:30

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

it's hackaday, the weird and impractical is the point.

# ? Aug 8, 2022 20:30

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

speaking of which, I�ve always wanted to build an Elekit amp. Anybody try this/have any thoughts?

# ? Aug 8, 2022 21:02

TheMadMilkman: Dec 10, 2007

strtj posted:

I did always want to hear one, just to see how it worked.

I�ve heard one! I don�t remember anything about it except that it was cool that it glowed.

# ? Aug 10, 2022 06:45

evilcat: May 16, 2009

strtj posted:

I did always want to hear one, just to see how it worked.

I have heard a couple! Some types are less bad than others. They all have quite a few issues and the ones I have heard have no ability to go even slightly low. The worst I'd describe as if a speaker could be tinny and cheap while being really clear. If all your music had no frequency content below maybe 10kHz it would work.

They're a neat project I guess since there are nothing but a mountain of issues with them technically before you get to the performance.

I can't speak as to any "decent" ones though given it's a niche thing that seems to attract more electronics hobbyists than audio people.

# ? Aug 10, 2022 08:18

qirex: Feb 15, 2001

MoFi guy responds in an extremely friendly interview:

quote:

JV and RH: Why did you decide to master from DSD files rather than from analog mastertapes, as you used to do? What are the advantages of mastering from files vis-a-via mastering from tape, and what (if any) are the limitations?

Jim Davis: Some record label tape vaults changed policy regarding shipment of mastertapes. At that point our only option for those recordings was to go to the mastertapes. Once we were able to access these masters, the dilemma was how can we best retrieve the information from the master? We experimented with making analog copies from the master. Various tape stocks (�**, 1**) and speeds (15ips, 30ips) were tried but rejected. There was no way to overcome the noise-floor disadvantages of copying from one analog tape to another. When we tried DSD, it was immediately clear this was a vastly superior method for maximizing information retrieval. Developed as an archival format, DSD is sonically transparent, with a very low noise floor. Combined with the painstaking transfer process described below, the capture is a virtual snapshot of the master, revealing detail and nuance at a level that conventional methods could not. Counterintuitively, this capture yields, in our evaluation, superior sonics compared to a cut that is direct from the analog tape to the lathe.

The process of achieving these captures at a remote studio location is expensive and time consuming. We ship our proprietary gear, including our Tim D�Paravicini-modified Studer A80 tape machine, to the studio, rent studio time, and fly and lodge our engineer for several weeks at a time. The process of making a DSD capture using our techniques takes a day or more alone for each tape. These are long and exhausting days, and I�m proud of the hard work Mofi engineers put into each project and of the results they consistently achieve. I�m not aware of any other audiophile record label that puts that time and expense into each release.

Beyond the additional time, effort, and expense, I�m not aware of any sonic limitations of using this process.

Exactly when (what year and titles) did MFSL start mastering from DSD files?

The first MFSL title mastered from a DSD file was Tony Bennett I Left My Heart in San Francisco, which was released in 2011. Over time, we mastered progressively more titles using the DSD archival capture step. Sourcing-information for all Mofi vinyl titles is being added to the Mofi website daily, and a complete discography will be posted on the site.
Are any Mofi LPs still mastered from tape, or are they all mastered from DSD files?

The last title we captured and cut from the mastertape without a DSD step was David Crosby If I Could Only Remember My Name. It was released in 2022 but was captured in early 2020. All other releases since early 2020 use a DSD step in the mastering unless the original recording is a digital source. Going forward all releases sourced from analog masters will utilize a DSD step.

Could you clarify the precise process and signal chain for cutting a lacquer, from the analog mastertape to the cutting lathe?

Starting with the original tape and using our custom Tim D�Paravicini Studer A80, our engineers do a rundown of the recording, noting azimuth-alignment-settings for each splice and edit. Once there has been a thorough evaluation of the tape, the engineer captures the first song or up to the first edit. At each splice point he realigns the azimuth. This precision alignment is crucial to maximizing information retrieval from the tape. These tapes could have been recorded at different studios on different tape machines, and it is vital to mirror these machines by continually aligning azimuth. After the capture, the DSD file is evaluated in Sebastopol and returned to the analog domain. Using a Tim D�Paravicini analog EQ, the engineer makes his equalization adjustments. EQ is not done in the digital domain. This signal is then fed into the lathe cutterhead, which is driven by Tim D�Paravicini tube amplifiers.

In a conventional analog-to-lathe cut, the engineer needs to make all his adjustments, including azimuth alignment, on the fly. Azimuth alignment is a micro adjustment, and there is no way to nail it precisely while cutting on the fly. And this is a move that needs to be done at each splice, regardless of how short the duration.

Why are some titles cut from DSD64 and others from DSD256?

Any title cut from DSD64 was captured from 2011 to January 2014, using the Meitner A/D. When better technology became available, we upgraded to the Merging Technologies Horus A/D which captures in DSD256. We continually experiment with new processes, technologies, gear, materials, and vinyl formulas to obtain the best sonic results. If an advance in technology comes along, we plan to be the first to evaluate and adopt it if it provides a sonic benefit.

Why does MoFi limit the number of copies it produces, particularly when you can cut as many lacquers as you want when you are cutting from a DSD file, and wear on the precious original mastertape isn�t an issue?

Like many things in the more-complicated-than-it-appears music business, limits on production runs can be based on numerous factors, such as licensing agreements, paper management (jackets, boxes, etc.), and even material shortages. As some may be aware, the only factory in the U.S. producing lacquer blanks burned down several years ago. In the case of our One-Step releases, we based our limits on our estimates of demand. When we decided on a limit of 2500 copies for our first One-Step release, Santana Abraxas, we had no idea how many $100 records we could sell. Since that release we have consistently increased the limits of each release based on estimated demand. One principal misconception of the lacquer-cutting process is that with a DSD file we can just push play and cut a lacquer and be done. That is simply not the case. There are many additional steps between the DSD capture and before a record is complete. To cut the lacquer, the DSD signal is fed into an analog EQ. This analog domain equalization is done by our cutting engineer for each and every cut. Once the lacquer is plated and stampers made, test pressings need to be pressed, QC�d, and approved. This process is repeated for every set of lacquers. Since only one set of stampers can be made from each One-Step cut, you can see that producing ever larger quantities of these records requires a considerable amount of time and work. In addition to mastering costs, decisions need to be made on packaging well before the release date. At some point, given our large backlog of future One-Step releases, we need to move on the next title. Regarding limits on regular vinyl titles, we set them based on our estimates of demand. Many of these limits were set prior to the pandemic, which completely blew all demand estimates out of the water.

Regarding wear on tapes, we have an obligation to help preserve what are sacred documents of our musical history. These moments were captured on a now-fragile physical medium. Mastertapes are a finite resource. We are privileged to not only be stewards of these recordings for a short while but also to be a conduit during that time, to present them in what we feel is their best light.

The revelation that MoFi cuts from digital masters has suggested to many that the advantages of a purely analog chain are imaginary. How do you reply to that line of thinking?

That�s a debate that has and may continue to go on for years. I can only speak for our process. We did extensive evaluations of all aspects of the mastering process and found that using our proprietary gear with these steps yields the best sonic results. In the end it�s up to each individual listener to make his or her own decision as to what sounds best. We feel the excellent reviews from so many of our customers and the press support our point of view. For that, we are grateful.

Note they didn't ask "why did you deceive your customers for a full decade and why should they trust you after this?"

# ? Aug 10, 2022 16:09

strtj: Feb 1, 2010

qirex posted:

MoFi guy responds in an extremely friendly interview:

Note they didn't ask "why did you deceive your customers for a full decade and why should they trust you after this?"

Yeah, regardless of what I think of the "analog purist signal chain" stuff, this is a really bad look.

# ? Aug 10, 2022 17:11

3D Megadoodoo: Nov 25, 2010

Everyone who got gruft deserved it. They should've charged more.

# ? Aug 10, 2022 17:16

qirex: Feb 15, 2001

Of course the next logical step is $100 DSD files, I mean they�re much closer to the original master than the records they press are.

# ? Aug 11, 2022 04:56

strtj: Feb 1, 2010

qirex posted:

Of course the next logical step is $100 DSD files, I mean they�re much closer to the original master than the records they press are.

I really hope you're joking but I'm concerned that you're actually on the board and this is going to be what happens

# ? Aug 12, 2022 14:19

Mr. Mercury: Aug 13, 2021

I should do that

# ? Aug 12, 2022 15:07

Zorak of Michigan: Jun 10, 2006

Your analog-to-DSD gear can be proprietary as soon as you stick a piece of masking tape on it and write your name.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:30

TheGoonspiracist: Jul 24, 2002; The terrible secret of space... the Mods, they knew!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMfppnJs3vM

Anyone else watch this?

# ? Aug 15, 2022 07:15

Mederlock: Jun 23, 2012; You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it; Grimey Drawer

How much do we want to guess that he's spent on cables in his setups?

Also it's not really controversial that terrible mixes are audible with a decent set of speakers. But yeah there was a good amount of audiophile woo in that story lmao

# ? Aug 15, 2022 08:27

YerDa Zabam: Aug 13, 2016

If his ears are so good, how come he doesn't hear how unnecessary that awful Texas accent is?

YerDa Zabam fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Aug 15, 2022

# ? Aug 15, 2022 09:06

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Mederlock posted:

How much do we want to guess that he's spent on cables in his setups?

Also it's not really controversial that terrible mixes are audible with a decent set of speakers. But yeah there was a good amount of audiophile woo in that story lmao

One cable probably costs more than my Topping D10 + D10B + D50S + DX3 Pro plus, SMSL D-6, Fiio BT5 + BTA30 Pro, Aiyima A07, IK Micro Monitors, JBL305p, Wharfedale 220 combined.

And also including my 2 PCs

# ? Aug 20, 2022 00:50

TheMadMilkman: Dec 10, 2007

Mederlock posted:

How much do we want to guess that he's spent on cables in his setups?

$0.00

Given how little cables cost to produce, and the advertising value of having them listed in the �associated equipment� section of his reviews, I all but guarantee that he doesn�t pay for cables.

He�s also a complete rear end in person.

# ? Aug 22, 2022 23:10

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

TheMadMilkman posted:

$0.00

Given how little cables cost to produce, and the advertising value of having them listed in the �associated equipment� section of his reviews, I all but guarantee that he doesn�t pay for cables.

He�s also a complete rear end in person.

$10 bucks says every audio equipment vendor uses the cheapest cables they can get away with for their innards

# ? Aug 26, 2022 14:48

3D Megadoodoo: Nov 25, 2010

Palladium posted:

$10 bucks says every audio equipment vendor uses the cheapest cables they can get away with for their innards

Just remembered the garden hose full of sand or whatever cables.

# ? Aug 26, 2022 14:52

qirex: Feb 15, 2001

Palladium posted:

$10 bucks says every audio equipment vendor uses the cheapest cables they can get away with for their innards

There's a few that use branded wire internally but it shouldn't surprise you that it's product placement and they get it for free, kind of like how you could go in a dance club in the early 2000s and there would be a "wired by Monster" sign somewhere.

# ? Aug 26, 2022 17:02

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

have audiophiles discovered the exotic PCB materials they use for high frequency RF applications yet

sure that stuff only makes any difference once you're in the >10ghz range but i'm sure they could be convinced it sounds better

# ? Aug 26, 2022 18:18

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/chord-hugo-tt2-review-dac-hp-amp.36745/

it takes some serious talent to design a $6700 consumer device that looks just as ugly as a $20 Behringer UCA202

# ? Aug 27, 2022 13:27

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

With how quiet Chord have been recently I knew once I heard they were making a new thing it was going to be worthy of this thread.

# ? Aug 27, 2022 14:22

stealie72: Jan 10, 2007

Palladium posted:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/chord-hugo-tt2-review-dac-hp-amp.36745/

it takes some serious talent to design a $6700 consumer device that looks just as ugly as a $20 Behringer UCA202

That looks like a 200 in 1 knockoff Playstation from Wish. Goddamn.

stealie72 fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Aug 27, 2022

# ? Aug 27, 2022 14:34

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

stealie72 posted:

That looks like a 200 in 1 knockoff Playstation from Wish. Goddamn.

I mean how in the world can one manage to make a CNC aluminum body to look and feel as cheap as counterfeit Legos, jesus MFing christ

# ? Aug 28, 2022 00:02

Zemyla: Aug 6, 2008; I'll take her off your hands. Pleasure doing business with you!

Why does it have a buttprint on the front?

# ? Aug 28, 2022 03:51

bird with big dick: Oct 21, 2015

So your butt is correctly positioned for the track ball to make maximum contact with your anus.

# ? Aug 28, 2022 04:47

YerDa Zabam: Aug 13, 2016

It looks ugly in the review, but holy poo poo, the product page is incredible...
https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/hugott2

# ? Aug 28, 2022 05:52

dc3k: Feb 18, 2003; what.

Adolf Glitter posted:

It looks ugly in the review, but holy poo poo, the product page is incredible...
https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/hugott2

um it clearly states �with beautiful new casework by Chief Designer, John Franks�

# ? Aug 28, 2022 07:17

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

dc3k posted:

um it clearly states �with beautiful new casework by Chief Designer, John Franks�

drat i love it now

# ? Aug 28, 2022 14:04

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

repiv posted:

have audiophiles discovered the exotic PCB materials they use for high frequency RF applications yet

sure that stuff only makes any difference once you're in the >10ghz range but i'm sure they could be convinced it sounds better

this, honestly, is a million dollar idea

# ? Aug 29, 2022 02:44

triple sulk: Sep 17, 2014

Every new high end amp/DAP/cable release is the initial few idiots willing to drop the cash and then they sit in stock forever. This will be no different since the same thing happened with Chord's Mojo 2 which is a hideous $750 piece of poo poo.

Edit: though I think the TT2 has been around a while, I could be wrong

triple sulk fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Aug 29, 2022

# ? Aug 29, 2022 06:29

3D Megadoodoo: Nov 25, 2010

Palladium posted:

I mean how in the world can one manage to make a CNC aluminum body to look and feel as cheap as counterfeit Legos, jesus MFing christ

That's not plastic?!? Lmaoooooo��.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 08:14

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# ? May 22, 2024 12:59

TheMadMilkman: Dec 10, 2007

Chord has always had an 'interesting' design perspective.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 13:55

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Ridicule Audiophiles - Find the cat shit's resonant frequency

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