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bigbillystyle posted:Yeah that was my first thought. I honestly don't know if that guy was joking or not but I was like I don't care if its a warm child or a cold child sized object I don't really want to hit one with my car. If he's joking then his entire existence on twitter has been a really deep con for this one joke.  https://twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1557790148435140609?t=vmuuDjObkX0JbtA-cMDeQA&s=19
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Aug 11, 2022 22:38
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I don't want a child, even if the product of insane parents to be injured. But I kinda hope Mr. Mars gets mowed down.
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Aug 11, 2022 23:23
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Olympic Mathlete posted:You've posted this in the correct thread, boss. That sounds absolutely nightmarish. I mean it's fine if you don't have a problem but... Most timing chains last a significant amount of time. What has actually increased wear on most chains and chain guides is people extending out their oil change frequency or using the wrong oil. And yeah they do stretch, but usually not before 150,000-200,000 miles. By which point most people are already planning to replace the car. Good example is the Q7 TDI, which has the dreaded Audi timing chains on the rear of the motor: Audi themselves actually recommend 7-10k oil change intervals, which would be fine if they were using diesel oils like 5w40 or heavier. They are using 10w30 due to the emissions system, and it tends to result in excess chain and guide wear after 5,000 miles. If you change the oil more frequently, the wear goes down significantly.
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Aug 11, 2022 23:45
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If you can't afford an oil change every 5k miles, you can't afford to drive 
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Aug 12, 2022 02:39
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CommieGIR posted:Most timing chains last a significant amount of time. The chain tensioners will fail eventually in every single V6 TDI engine. I dont think I have seen a single high mileage Q7/A6/Touareg/etc without stretched or replaced chain. A big reason why old big Audis are relatively cheap to buy here.
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Aug 12, 2022 06:14
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This Tesla thing is never going to end, is it? Probably been the best thing to happen to this thread because yowza that lot are idiots. https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1557766648719097856?s=20&t=cdf-a4k98zQCqFsm-Zlmjw
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Aug 12, 2022 11:44
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Olympic Mathlete posted:This Tesla thing is never going to end, is it? Probably been the best thing to happen to this thread because yowza that lot are idiots. Popped up in another thread. Someone is going to run over their kid to prove Musk correct. Sigma posted:Gonna be a fun weekend for wannabe Tesla QA
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Aug 12, 2022 13:39
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fridge corn posted:Also looks exactly like some of the shithole uk garages I used to work in lol Did you notice that in the video "Lust For Life" was playing in the background One would hate life having to work on that poo poo all day long in a shithole garage
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Aug 12, 2022 14:04
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Deteriorata posted:Timing chains aren't meant to be replaced, generally. If you do need to replace a timing chain, most of the time you've got enough problems that you need to pull the engine anyway. Ask me about VE Commodores and Timing Chains.
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Aug 12, 2022 14:07
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bad_fmr posted:The chain tensioners will fail eventually in every single V6 TDI engine. I dont think I have seen a single high mileage Q7/A6/Touareg/etc without stretched or replaced chain. A big reason why old big Audis are relatively cheap to buy here. Well, yeah, they are wear items. But they tend to fail nearer to when people are already planning to replace them or the vehicle itself.
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Aug 12, 2022 14:53
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Uthor posted:Popped up in another thread. Someone is going to run over their kid to prove Musk correct. Popped up in this thread too, top of the page 
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Aug 12, 2022 15:09
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Olympic Mathlete posted:Popped up in this thread too, top of the page Oh no, a spiral of links!
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Aug 12, 2022 15:12
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If you're going to put the timing system on the back of the engine where it is muffled by the transmission case, use gears. How many heads would explode if the next GM small block had the timing chain in the back of the engine? Cam and tune suddenly gets a whole lot more difficult.
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Aug 12, 2022 16:27
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CommieGIR posted:Well, yeah, they are wear items. But they tend to fail nearer to when people are already planning to replace them or the vehicle itself. Yes, but VW does not give any mileage requirement for the replacement. Further adding to the myth that timing chain does not need replacement, as opposed to belt timing. True the chain itself might be fine, but the tensioners and guides will degrade and then require replacement. A joke is that at some point VW said that the chain "will last the lifetime of the engine". From a certain point of view, that is obiviously correct.
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Aug 12, 2022 17:09
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PBCrunch posted:If you're going to put the timing system on the back of the engine where it is muffled by the transmission case, use gears. This is the correct answer and I wish more companies used gears, but it seems to be exclusively a large engine thing like Cummins, etc. bad_fmr posted:Yes, but VW does not give any mileage requirement for the replacement. Further adding to the myth that timing chain does not need replacement, as opposed to belt timing. True the chain itself might be fine, but the tensioners and guides will degrade and then require replacement. Yeah, which is why I plan to do a full chain refresh on my TDI here in the next 20k miles.
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Aug 12, 2022 17:14
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bad_fmr posted:A joke is that at some point VW said that the chain "will last the lifetime of the engine". From a certain point of view, that is obiviously correct. This is the exact same thing as lifetime ATF or any other lifetime fluid. Yep, it sure does last for the life of the part, but not in the way you're thinking if you're coming at this assuming good intentions.
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Aug 12, 2022 17:21
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CommieGIR posted:This is the correct answer and I wish more companies used gears, but it seems to be exclusively a large engine thing like Cummins, etc. ford 300-six. vw air cooleds.
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Aug 12, 2022 17:25
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cursedshitbox posted:ford 300-six. vw air cooleds. VW Air Cooleds were designed for military application, so a reliable geartrain always made sense. When VW started producing for civilian market they changed very little. The 300-6 was heavily simplified too but was also a heavy engine, but worth noting they also eventually went to a timing chain in the end similar to others used on their V6/V8 cousins cam/crank timing.
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Aug 12, 2022 17:33
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Volvo B4/B16/B18/B20/B30 all used gears.
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Aug 12, 2022 17:37
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Nidhg00670000 posted:Volvo B4/B16/B18/B20/B30 all used gears. So I guess there was more than I thought, I stand corrected.
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Aug 12, 2022 17:37
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CommieGIR posted:The 300-6 was heavily simplified too but was also a heavy engine, but worth noting they also eventually went to a timing chain in the end similar to others used on their V6/V8 cousins cam/crank timing. Nah the 300 ran gears till end of its production in 1996.
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Aug 12, 2022 17:59
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Personally I would rather drive a car 150-200k miles and then throw it away if the chain snaps rather than drive a car 150-200k and have to constantly be changing the cambelt
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Aug 12, 2022 18:12
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fridge corn posted:Personally I would rather drive a car 150-200k miles and then throw it away if the chain snaps rather than drive a car 150-200k and have to constantly be changing the cambelt Oh man, that camshaft belt change at 100k miles and the second belt swap at 200K miles is such an enormous imposition. The GM Iron Duke also had timing gears. Was this maybe the most widely produced postwar engine with timing gears? GM had the balls to call it the "Tech 4." Low tech is still tech I guess. PBCrunch fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Aug 12, 2022 |
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Aug 12, 2022 19:16
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Looks like we have a VW exec posting in the thread.
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Aug 12, 2022 19:16
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VW actually had a gear version of the 2.5 TDI. Apparently it was only used on the T5 and Touareg which, well, both of those had plenty of other issues to make up for it.
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Aug 12, 2022 19:30
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PBCrunch posted:Oh man, that camshaft belt change at 100k miles and the second belt swap at 200K miles is such an enormous imposition. I would say the Iron Duke would have to be number one. I just came to share the International Sv line of 4 and 8 cylinder motors are gears as well and show up in a ton of trucks. I cracked the hood on a dump truck with the same motor as my pickup. The proper response to that was "woof".
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Aug 12, 2022 19:47
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Nidhg00670000 posted:Volvo B4/B16/B18/B20/B30 all used gears. Oddly enough, they used a 'fiber' gear (some sort of compressed composite), which can separate from it's drive hub and fail; there's aftermarket all steel gears available. Failure seems to be not that common, but not unheard of, but fortunately they're not interference engines and replacement isn't a terrible job.
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Aug 12, 2022 19:50
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PBCrunch posted:How many heads would explode if the next GM small block had the timing chain in the back of the engine? Cam and tune suddenly gets a whole lot more difficult. Isn't this a C8 problem, you have to pull the motor to do the cam?
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Aug 12, 2022 20:18
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ET_375 posted:Oddly enough, they used a 'fiber' gear (some sort of compressed composite), which can separate from it's drive hub and fail; there's aftermarket all steel gears available. Failure seems to be not that common, but not unheard of, but fortunately they're not interference engines and replacement isn't a terrible job. Every failure of the fiber gears I've ever heard of was in engines running higher HP than stock. Aftermarket has fiber, alu or steel gears, whichever one prefers.
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Aug 12, 2022 20:20
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I sometimes wonder how much Honda/Toyota's reliability reputation comes from using timing belts being seen as a maintenance item while so many engines have a bad reputation due to timing chain issues. If the Ford 5.4 or GM 3.6 were timing belt engines, they might have been considered reliable.
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Aug 12, 2022 20:31
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I didn't see anyone mention it, what benefit does a timing chain at the transmission end provide?
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Aug 12, 2022 21:04
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bad_fmr posted:Looks like we have a VW exec posting in the thread. I took this personally
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Aug 12, 2022 21:04
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Saukkis posted:I didn't see anyone mention it, what benefit does a timing chain at the transmission end provide? Simplified manufacturing/packaging. This is a production/assembly optimization, not one for working on the thing after the fact. So as long as it lasts through warranty.......
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Aug 12, 2022 21:05
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cursedshitbox posted:the 22R Toyota's heralded as the million billion mile engine thats unkillable needs chains every 150,000 miles and if not it eats the timing cover by the coolant pump mixing coolant and oil while also contaminating the lubricating system with metal shavings. Interestingly, my wife's '78 Celica (20R) had somewhat the opposite problem. The damned cheap-rear end reman water pump I put on it drilled a hole in the timing cover (which is the back of the water pump housing on these) and pissed coolant into the oil. I changed a head gasket before I realized that was the issue.  StormDrain posted:I would say the Iron Duke would have to be number one. I just came to share the International Sv line of 4 and 8 cylinder motors are gears as well and show up in a ton of trucks. I cracked the hood on a dump truck with the same motor as my pickup. The proper response to that was "woof". Nothing like seeing something like that, eh? My dad has a '60-something Ford F450 or 550 - single axle dual tires - that used to be a tar truck for paving. It has a Y-block Ford gasser V8 in it, same as the F-100 of the time. It made up for it with ridiculous gearing and a 2-speed rear axle. That particular truck was intended to drive like 5 MPH most of it's life anyway. Basically, the old trucks just geared way the gently caress down and were slow as balls. Motronic posted:Simplified manufacturing/packaging. This is a production/assembly optimization, not one for working on the thing after the fact. So as long as it lasts through warranty....... Motronic posted:Simplified manufacturing/packaging. This is a production/assembly optimization, not one for working on the thing after the fact. So as long as it lasts through warranty....... Yeah, that. A lot of stuff that seems dumb is that. Cars are designed to be put together, not taken apart.
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Aug 12, 2022 21:46
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Darchangel posted:
Gears make what power cannot. You can get a brand new 6.7 psd with 4.88 gears. Though its derated from almost five-hundred-horse. Just two decades ago 4.88, 5.13 or even 6.17 were the norm in the medium duties.
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Aug 12, 2022 22:40
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fridge corn posted:Personally I would rather drive a car 150-200k miles and then throw it away if the chain snaps rather than drive a car 150-200k and have to constantly be changing the cambelt What car are you thinking of that changing the belt would be such a issue? A 70's Lancia Beta that needed belts changed every 20,000kms?
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Aug 13, 2022 00:02
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fridge corn posted:Personally I would rather drive a car 150-200k miles and then throw it away if the chain snaps rather than drive a car 150-200k and have to constantly be changing the cambelt The gently caress are you on about? Italian junk built by drunk hillbillies sold to idiot Americans as high-tier goods? Japan/Germany have run 100k-mi(160k-km) cambelts for like two plus decades. Jeez even the Americans figured this out.
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Aug 13, 2022 00:12
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:What car are you thinking of that changing the belt would be such a issue? A 70's Lancia Beta that needed belts changed every 20,000kms? 944s need the timing and cam belts re-tensioned every 15k for the early ones lol. (and replaced every 30 regardless of manual or automatic tensioner)
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Aug 13, 2022 00:29
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Motronic posted:944s need the timing and cam belts re-tensioned every 15k for the early ones lol. (and replaced every 30 regardless of manual or automatic tensioner) Thats also a car that's almost 40 years old. Oh JFC the 944 is nearly 40 years WTF
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Aug 13, 2022 00:41
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Thats also a car that's almost 40 years old. lol (also, yes, I get it, but you started out with 70s Lancias and these are a full decade newer)
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Aug 13, 2022 00:42
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