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Cardiac posted:Other mentions: Afs and Nyans are very much two sides of the same coin. They both only exist as a convenient boogeyman/straw man for people on either side of the political spectrum to get up in arms over. Their political relevance outside of online discourse is zero.
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Aug 13, 2022 23:37
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The funniest thing abound AfS was after they got something like 2000 votes total last election their explanation for their failure was they didn't post enough racist memes.
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Aug 13, 2022 23:47
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david_a posted:So what’s the deal with Gudrun Schyman. My vague understanding is that she reformed Vpk into V in the mid 90s and made them give up on any delusions about turning Sweden communist. The only other thing I know about her is from my aunt (RIP, an FP/M voter), who said, and I quote, “hon kan käfta!” (I think this was a begrudging compliment) She is a person who is/was excellent at exploiting media for maximal exposure. Politically she was a populist who know how to pick up on certain issues trending popular in media (equality, feminism, environment). She had personal problems which ended her various party involvements which included public alcoholism and fraud. During her reign of V, they were a loyal support party to S.
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Aug 14, 2022 05:41
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It's strange to me that you'd reduce the core themes in her political work, equality and feminism, to populistic trend-surfing. She was a feminist before it became PC. Unless you meant that she was/is good at picking up and utilizing trends within those areas which is fair. Edit: also, to be clear, her alcoholism didn't end any party involvement. She checked herself into rehab and during this time she took a break from politics. anatomi fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 10:05
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Cardiac posted:As far as I know, you are located down in Malmö as am I, so I assume you didn’t particularly like your electricity bill in January. It doesn’t particularly looks like next winter will be better in that sense and if we get rolling blackouts down here, we have officially reached the point of a collapsing system. No we have not reached a systematic collapse, Swedish electricity is still among the cheapest in Europe and we don’t use electricity for heating homes to the same degree as many other European countries. The electricity ”crisis” in Sweden is largely political hay. I can dig out my bills but I think the difference from last year was still in the degrees of a handful of cafe coffees, because I’m not a boomer in a huge villa heated solely by electricity to 25 degrees. E: correction. Southern Sweden is in parity with several other European countries, but far better off than for example the UK, Spain, Italy. Large parts of Sweden has relatively dirt cheap electricity. There is obviously a free market solution to the right wing whiners, and that is to move north, just like they expect the unemployed to do. But the way the M-Kd-Sd-L parties are painting this as a uniquely Swedish problem based on failed policies require you to refuse to look at a map of European electricity prices.  (The UK would be even darker than Ireland) To clarify: as long as Sweden produces cheap electricity, and as long as the continent got reamed by the sudden disappearance of the Putin gas and oil the depended on, Swedish electricity would increase in price as the electricity producers want to maximize profit. If we had ten new nuclear plants in Skåne, that surplus would not dump prices here, it would be sold to Germany and Denmark. As long as we are locked into a Eropean energy market we are stuck in a situation where we do not have full control of energy costs. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 11:35
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My electricity bill has more than doubled since last year and I live in a normal small apartment.
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Aug 14, 2022 11:38
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https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/senaste-nytt-om-svensk-politik-och-valet-2022quote:Andersson (S): Fördubbla straffet för grovt vapenbrott Exciting new strategy from S. Trying to win more votes by shifting towards hard right politics. Let's see how it pays off. https://youtu.be/NNv2RHR62Rs
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Aug 14, 2022 11:57
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lilljonas posted:E: correction. Southern Sweden is in parity with several other European countries, but far better off than for example the UK, Spain, Italy. Large parts of Sweden has relatively dirt cheap electricity. There is obviously a free market solution to the right wing whiners, and that is to move north, just like they expect the unemployed to do. Southern Sweden is not in parity with any other European countries, unless you do some very specific cherry-picking of certain hours/days. https://www.nordpoolgroup.com/en/Market-data1/Dayahead/Area-Prices/ALL1/Monthly/?view=table Granted, the energy companies probably gouge the customers to the max in this current market while blaming it all on politicians/the war/other externalities.
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Aug 14, 2022 11:58
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Potrzebie posted:Southern Sweden is not in parity with any other European countries, unless you do some very specific cherry-picking of certain hours/days. Ok so then let’s cherry-pick the current situation, average prices in July 2022 Europa – spotpris juli (snittpris) 2022 Södra Sverige (elområde 3 & 4) 98,58 eur/MWh* Frankrike 400 eur/MWh Nederländerna 306 eur/MWh Belgien 321 eur/MWh Österrike 359 eur/MWh *Spotpriset är genomsnittet för södra Sverige (elområde 3 & 4) som har högst elpris under juli. Elpriserna i norra Sverige är förhållandevis låga, vilket drar ner snittet och skulle ge en missvisande bild. https://news.cision.com/se/elskling/r/trots-hoga-elpriser---nordens-elproduktion-haller-priserna-nere-under-juli,c3610712 Looks like it sucks more in France. My point is not that it doesn’t suck to pay an electricity bill, rather that the situation in Southern Sweden would not change drastically if you raised Barsebäck with necromancy: the interlinked market makes other countries’ situation directly effect ours. The cheap northern electricy is mainly cheap because it is produced too far north to be efficiently sold to desperate Germans right now. Not to say that there aren’t plenty of hosed things with the energy policies, like the hosed up tax rebates for huge server halls that produce no jobs etc, but it is not those policies that are attacked by the right but rather a silly idea that resurrecting Ringhals would solve everyhing. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 12:12
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Jack Trades posted:https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/senaste-nytt-om-svensk-politik-och-valet-2022 I hate that other parties think they can beat SD at the racism game. It hasn't worked at all so far, why the gently caress do they think it'll work now? "Källarförråd, lägenhet och bil" is not very subtle. It's all about that sweet sweet harassment of browns.
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Aug 14, 2022 12:31
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Potrzebie posted:I hate that other parties think they can beat SD at the racism game. It hasn't worked at all so far, why the gently caress do they think it'll work now? Every four years, everyone tries to prove to Svenne Banan that they hate The Other more than everone else. It is pathetic yet oh so predictable.
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Aug 14, 2022 12:35
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Potrzebie posted:I hate that other parties think they can beat SD at the racism game. It hasn't worked at all so far, why the gently caress do they think it'll work now? Attefallshus, villa och båt
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Aug 14, 2022 12:57
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Jack Trades posted:My electricity bill has more than doubled since last year and I live in a normal small apartment. Mine is more of less the same, I never in my life changed my electricity provider when other ones called me and said their was cheaper though, I guess that's what's saving me now.
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Aug 14, 2022 13:11
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lilljonas posted:No we have not reached a systematic collapse, Swedish electricity is still among the cheapest in Europe and we don’t use electricity for heating homes to the same degree as many other European countries. The electricity ”crisis” in Sweden is largely political hay. I can dig out my bills but I think the difference from last year was still in the degrees of a handful of cafe coffees, because I’m not a boomer in a huge villa heated solely by electricity to 25 degrees. If we get rolling blackouts, that is pretty much the definition of a system collapse. As you know from the newspapers, some preparation for this is being made (which hopefully will not occur). Oh, and for electricity bills, I live in a new house (10 years) with top of the line insulation and heat pump, where my electricity consumption is small compared to houses of similar size. The January bill was not fun, and then I am paying less than others. So in other words, you don't live in a house? The issue with Swedish electricity is that what is produced up north cannot be used down south, which as you know are the main population resides. That large parts of Sweden have cheap electricity is irrelevant if by large parts you mean areas where people doesn't live. As your graph shows, the electricity price for Sweden two southern zones is on the average compared to European prices, which affects 90% of the Swedish population. Also, July is not the month to care about, but rather the cold months. What nuclear power provided in Sweden was stability of the energy system when alternative sources (hydro, wind, solar) were not sufficient due to the weather. And the point here is not that we should resurrect old nuclear plants, we should build new and better ones. The ones we have/had basically survived due to the status quo and should have been retired a long time ago and replaced. But the political climate where two parties have kept the issue hostage (C and MP) have made that impossible. Looking at the future, Sweden needs to produce a whole lot more electricity in order to reduce carbon dioxide and supply the growing population. LKABs planned system for carbon dioxide free steel will need an enormous amount of electricity (more than the combined vehicle fleet in Sweden uses), the move to electric cars will also require more electricity. Hydro is already maximized, the sun doesn't shine in the winter, wave power is not here yet, and you will need an absurd number of wind mills to manage this (a significant fraction of the area of Sweden in terms of 5-10%, which is extra  considering the size of Sweden. Obviously the wind is not always blowing as well). So new nuclear is the way to go, since all other alternatives are worse.
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Aug 14, 2022 13:33
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Cardiac posted:If we get rolling blackouts, that is pretty much the definition of a system collapse. As you know from the newspapers, some preparation for this is being made (which hopefully will not occur).  Your house sucks. Do you use electrical golvvärme set to 25°C all day every day or something? Seriously, get an energideklaration or something with suggestions for savings, it should be easy money unless you live in a mansion. E: I mixed up multiple slap fights over this issue. So this is in reply to things you did not claim. If you look at the price during the winter, SE4 is almost in parity with the rest of Europe. If it's Swedish politics that stand in the way of new nuclear reactors, how come the rest of the EU isn't building them either? There is a grand total of one (1) rector under construction in the EU as of may '22 (source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/513671/number-of-under-construction-nuclear-reactors-worldwide/) Electricity produced in the North is very much used in the South. The bottleneck is stamnätet and the lack of production in the South (hello Gothenburg NIMBYing wind farms). The whole idea behind the four zones SE1-4 was to incentivice new production in the South. I guess the market figured it would be more profitable to not and just increase the prices. Nuclear is dying, there are no new nuclear engineers to replace the boomers, and since it's illegal to mine uranium in Sweden we'd be Putin's bitch. Potrzebie fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 14:11
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Oh my loving god.
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Aug 14, 2022 14:27
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Potrzebie posted:Nuclear is dying, there are no new nuclear engineers to replace the boomers, and since it's illegal to mine uranium in Sweden we'd be Putin's bitch. Who are you talking to to be this wrong?
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Aug 14, 2022 14:48
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Groda posted:Who are you talking to to be this wrong? My rear end I guess regarding the bitch-part. The rest is one scoop of law and one of talking to a nuclear physicist. Perhaps he was pulling my leg and there are in fact an abundance of engineers specialized in nuclear physics below the age of 50 that would take employment in the energy sector.
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Aug 14, 2022 15:46
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I know at least one under 50 that I went to school with and there’s a bunch of nuclear PhD people on Twitter I follow. They’re definitely in existence.
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Aug 14, 2022 15:55
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Potrzebie posted:My rear end I guess regarding the bitch-part. The rest is one scoop of law and one of talking to a nuclear physicist. Perhaps he was pulling my leg and there are in fact an abundance of engineers specialized in nuclear physics below the age of 50 that would take employment in the energy sector. That Guy, tekn.lic.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:02
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2 minutes of searching at antagning.se gets me https://www.uu.se/utbildning/utbildningar/selma/program/?pKod=TKK1Y&pInr=&lasar=22%2F23, which presumably has at least some students. Hell, I'm about to do the final year of my masters in energy engineering in luleå, so I could apply for next year if I wanted to.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:05
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You can also spec in to nuclear engineering after Teknisk Fysik and sometimes Elektro.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:13
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What the hell is up with people acting like it's basically the owner's fault for having high electricity bills. Sure yeah it is if you're a rich rear end running your electrical floor heating that you installed in your glassed in loving porch - but lots of people live in old poorly insulated houses with expensive heating which they cannot afford to fix. Heating at 17-18c will save you a lot of money and it will also suck a whole bunch compared with 20 or 21c. Two years ago even most of the very worst off could get by in winter without having to walk around with jackets on while indoors. This last winter resulted in bills doubling or tripling for lots of people. That might be just a few hundred sek if you´re living in apartement but it could be thousands if you're living in a house. I had the dubious pleause of spending much of winter 2021-22 talking with people who had to choose between heating and eating. poo poo sucks. Personally I recently moved into a house running on pure electricity. Even the radiators are fully electrical. There used to be a boiler but the old owner ripped it out a few years ago. Obviously I'm planning on upgrading the heating but even being relatively well off that's still a big investment which I won't be able to afford until next year. I'm privileged enough to even be able to plan that investment, a lot of people can't. A lot of the same people also cannot afford to move. tl;dr - high electrical bill =/= rich rear end in a top hat
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Aug 14, 2022 16:13
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Groda posted:That Guy, tekn.lic. Ok so a quick Google leads to a 2018 SSM-report where they suggest ways to alleviate the lack of students specialising in their field. Is this solved only four years earlier? Or did you just decide that my anecdotal evidence is worse than yours?
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Aug 14, 2022 16:18
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Potrzebie posted:Or did you just decide that my anecdotal evidence is worse than yours? Yes.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:41
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Groda posted:Yes.  This is a stupid hill for me to die on.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:47
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Lehugo posted:
Yeah this has been rubbing me the wrong way too. It's like it's entirely informed by that DN piece with that former bank manager who heated his fancy uterum, and the only reason he got to be the face of people who heat with electricity is because DN journos are too lazy (or scared) to leave Stockholm. In reality, even people in elprisområde 1 and 2 got disproportionately high bills last winter, because heating a house to a modest 17 degrees when the outside temperature is -20 still consumes a lot of kWh. Up here, you don't need to be extravagant to end up with a usage of more than 2000 kWh per month in December and January if you heat entirely with electricity.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:53
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Lehugo posted:What the hell is up with people acting like it's basically the owner's fault for having high electricity bills. Sure yeah it is if you're a rich rear end running your electrical floor heating that you installed in your glassed in loving porch - but lots of people live in old poorly insulated houses with expensive heating which they cannot afford to fix. Heating at 17-18c will save you a lot of money and it will also suck a whole bunch compared with 20 or 21c. Two years ago even most of the very worst off could get by in winter without having to walk around with jackets on while indoors. This last winter resulted in bills doubling or tripling for lots of people. That might be just a few hundred sek if you´re living in apartement but it could be thousands if you're living in a house. I had the dubious pleause of spending much of winter 2021-22 talking with people who had to choose between heating and eating. poo poo sucks. As to the main point: If you can save a lot of money going down to 17-18°C, I think there's a decent chance you could do some renovations that would pay themselves back rather quickly. Has Sweden never had one of those tax rebate or whatever programs to get people to spend money on renovating their houses to support the building industry during downturns? In any case, I have infinitely more sympathy for people renting whose bills went up than people who have some degree of control over their heating requirements. Like, you chose to live in a place where the heating bill was 5x or more than in an apartment apparently, you kinda have to take that into account for planning your economy. Seagull Fiasco posted:Yeah this has been rubbing me the wrong way too. It's like it's entirely informed by that DN piece with that former bank manager who heated his fancy uterum, and the only reason he got to be the face of people who heat with electricity is because DN journos are too lazy (or scared) to leave Stockholm. In reality, even people in elprisområde 1 and 2 got disproportionately high bills last winter, because heating a house to a modest 17 degrees when the outside temperature is -20 still consumes a lot of kWh. Up here, you don't need to be extravagant to end up with a usage of more than 2000 kWh per month in December and January if you heat entirely with electricity.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:59
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What's the average price of a kWh of electricity up there, all included? Seagull Fiasco fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 20:07
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Seagull Fiasco posted:The price varies widely and is dependent on the invisible
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Aug 14, 2022 20:42
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Lmao i'm paying 3.57 SEK/kWh here at my apartment San Francisco, and that's without my stove, water heater or heating which are gas.
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Aug 14, 2022 21:30
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electricity heating is fine if you're in a country with a built-in electricity surplus. before our ever-tighter integration with european market, it used to be the case for both norway and sweden that we had more electricity than we strictly speaking knew what to do with. at least in norway's case, this led people to note that there was a big opportunity cost in not fully exploiting our electric power potential, and also weather-based power generation wants some relief for extreme situations, so the cables were built to couple us onto the swedish market in particular. this was fine, but we still had inefficiencies and under-utilisation, so we built more cables to europe. these cables have enough capacity that they pretty much totally normalised our prices against a germany/UK hybrid, with a society built under the assumption that electricity is basically free. it all makes perfect sense if you're a social economist in an office somewhere - it really is more efficient in a sense - but it's extremely stupid. at the moment, with europe's energy supply so precarious, one imagines that protectionist measures will be met with extreme prejudice from the EU
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Aug 15, 2022 00:39
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don't even get me started on the electricity arbitration companies. i am an anti-fjordkraft feyadeen. for a long time i didn't understand what they even did, and now that i do i hate them even more.
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Aug 15, 2022 00:41
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Potrzebie posted:E: I mixed up multiple slap fights over this issue. So this is in reply to things you did not claim. So we agree then, the issue is lack of production in southern Sweden. There will be a test SMR reactor in the coming years. And Finland just put up a new one. Also, given the Ukraine war we are in a new setting. Gas/oil is not the future due global warming. Call me a socialist if you want, but I would rather that the state guarantees the supply of cheap electricity than relying on market forces. So what is your solution then? Wind is too volatile and needs to be stabilised by other means, so what other means? Also requires an absurd amount of space. And solar have similar issues. On a second note, lowering the temperature of your house too low is an excellent way of developing new interesting mold. There have been a number of schools down here that did that to save on heating and then ended paying more to clean it up. Finally, installing solar panels now have a break even of 5 years instead of 10-15 years due to the electricity price. But you won’t be self sufficient on that, since the sun doesn’t shine when you need the electricity and batteries are expensive and low capacity. Still requires one to fork out 100-200k, which is not something everyone can do.
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Aug 15, 2022 06:54
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Cardiac posted:
Which is exactly why we need large scale solar etc. and battery banks or other forms of energy storage, instead of individual installations.
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Aug 15, 2022 06:57
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The problem is that the technology for these battery banks and energy storage on these scales simply does not exist and if we tried building it with current technology it would be insanely expensive and it would consume an utterly insane amount of resources. Large scale energy storage on the scales we need it is simply a fantasy and there are no indications it will change any time soon. It will certainly be faster to build nuclear reactors, even if they take as long as OL3 to build.
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Aug 15, 2022 07:02
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KozmoNaut posted:Which is exactly why we need large scale solar etc. and battery banks or other forms of energy storage, instead of individual installations. Energy storage is expensive and inefficient, since batteries are only increasing in efficiency incrementally. Makes nuclear appear cheap. The issue with electricity is that it needs to be consumed when it is produced, hence why a stable supply not dependent on the weather is required. But to make the whole discussion more relevant to the current Swedish election (since power supply is a long term question), in my opinion a vote for any party that will collaborate with MP is a vote for inaction in this area.
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Aug 15, 2022 07:09
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KozmoNaut posted:Which is exactly why we need large scale solar etc. and battery banks or other forms of energy storage, instead of individual installations. Cardiac posted:Finally, installing solar panels now have a break even of 5 years instead of 10-15 years due to the electricity price. But you won’t be self sufficient on that, since the sun doesn’t shine when you need the electricity and batteries are expensive and low capacity. Still requires one to fork out 100-200k, which is not something everyone can do. His Divine Shadow posted:The problem is that the technology for these battery banks and energy storage simply does not exist and if we tried building it with current technology it would be insanely expensive and it would consume an utterly insane amount of resources.
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Aug 15, 2022 07:13
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His Divine Shadow posted:The problem is that the technology for these battery banks and energy storage on these scales simply does not exist and if we tried building it with current technology it would be insanely expensive and it would consume an utterly insane amount of resources. I'm not proposing it as a sole solution, and I don't think anyone is. We need nuclear, solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, tidal, all of them in a fossil-free energy infrastructure. Storage is part of that, not the sole solution. And batteries are not the only solution. As mentioned, heat-based storage in the form of molten salt and similar systems work too, and don't require rare/conflict minerals.
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Aug 15, 2022 07:18
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If anyone cares about V's approach https://www.vansterpartiet.se/nyheter/nooshi-dadgostar-foreslar-sverigepriser-pa-el/?link_id=A6sxERiXv37E The key paragraph "Därför så föreslår vi i Vänsterpartiet idag att elmarknaden inom landet separeras från vår exportmarknad. Det skulle ge oss Sverigepris på el, som sätts efter den el som produceras för den svenska elmarknaden. Att separera marknaderna på det sättet skulle stabilisera det svenska elpriset på i genomsnitt 40 öre per kWh. Exporten skulle inte påverkas, utan skulle kunna fortsätta i samma omfattning och till samma pris som redan sker idag. Förslaget innebär ingen ändring av prisområdena inom Sverige, utan endast att den dyra elen som går på export inte ska driva upp priserna i Sverige." So how feasible is that, exactly?
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