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Should I step down as head of twitter This poll is closed. |
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420 | 4.43% |
| No |
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69 | 0.73% |
| Goku |
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9001 | 94.85% |
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chaosbreather posted:actually everything they have filed has been super careful about NOT claiming Twitter did anything fraudulent, but instead having 'inaccuracies'. if he claimed fraud that would be straight up libel. the inaccuracies are, as previously mentioned, impossible, because of the fact that they are always contextualising those numbers with their methodology and include plenty of caveats about them, and also it doesn't matter because Elon's lawyers wrote a contract saying it doesn't matter because he really really wanted to buy it just to revisit this now that i can actually search elon's filing linked earlier, the word "fraud" is used throughout. quote:Since then, Twitter’s disclosures have slowly unraveled, with Twitter frantically closing the gates on information in a desperate bid to prevent the Musk Parties from uncovering its fraud. quote:Accordingly, the Musk Parties bring their counterclaims for breach of contract and rescission on the basis of Twitter’s fraud. quote:Independent of Twitter’s fraud, since January, Twitter has suffered a Company Material Adverse Effect (“MAE”) as defined in Article I of the Merger Agreement. 172. Also, the COUNT 1 section on page 86 lists 8 instances of alleged fraud. quote:COUNT I Fraud 201. Defendants/Counterclaim-Plaintiffs hereby incorporate by reference each of the foregoing paragraphs, as if fully set forth herein. 202. so i don't know where you're getting that information about elon's legal team only referring to "inaccuracies" to avoid libel. seems wrong. e: new page i guess, document link again: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22127591-musk-public-version-of-counterclaims-answer-w-cos Bad Purchase fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 15:27
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Klyith posted:edit: basically Elon's legal team is giving non-admitted "evidence" (a different bot tracker) and saying "this proves fraud" (it doesn't). this is not how i'd characterize it, the document mostly references numbers from twitter's past SEC filings as well as the proprietary data he was given access to when he met with twitter. see items 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 14, and 16 in the preliminary statement section, several of which include actual numbers that come straight from the "firehose" API he was given access to, not a 3rd party. item 13 is the only place where the bot tracker (i think, though it's not explicitly named) is referenced in the opening.
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Aug 15, 2022 15:57
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So is there anything actually worth talking about without going in circles? I want to hear about someone arguing in bad faith, not from
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Aug 15, 2022 16:09
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Sentient Data posted:So is there anything actually worth talking about without going in circles? I want to hear about someone arguing in bad faith, not from no
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Aug 15, 2022 16:21
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Bad Purchase posted:the "past fraud" thing comes from some reporting i read on elon's initial court filings. since he waived due diligence in the buyout contract, the argument he's going with now is essentially that he was comfortable waiving diligence because he trusted that the statements twitter made to investors in the past were true. so his legal team will try to find something twitter released before elon signed the deal that they can pick apart and call a lie, and i guess they think the MDAUs number is their best shot. you should probably read twitter's response to musk's claims that they filed in court. specifically they addressed his claims that they're hiding the mdau metrics from him. they've pointed out that they tried to set up a meeting, multiple times, with the people who came up with these metrics to talk over the details. musk didn't show up to any of them and instead sent someone else. this is because he isn't actually interested in understanding any of this. he wants to make noises he believes will get him out of the deal. he's not arguing in good faith he's lying. just like he lies about everything else. for someone who's been following this thread you're giving him a lot of benefit when he's consistently shown to not be deserving of it he had a manic episode and decided he wanted to buy twitter at a dumb price. twitter tried to talk him out of it multiple times but he doubled down each time because that's what he does. now he's realized how loving dumb it was and went to his lawyers and told them to find any reason to get him out of the deal. they likely told him he couldn't but this would be his best and only shot. that doesn't mean it's a good shot
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Aug 15, 2022 16:32
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Sentient Data posted:So is there anything actually worth talking about without going in circles? I want to hear about someone arguing in bad faith, not from trial starts in two months and it's unlikely that much is gonna happen before then, so all we've got to talk about are doomerism and Musk tweets
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Aug 15, 2022 16:37
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PIZZA.BAT posted:you should probably read twitter's response to musk's claims that they filed in court. specifically they addressed his claims that they're hiding the mdau metrics from him. they've pointed out that they tried to set up a meeting, multiple times, with the people who came up with these metrics to talk over the details. musk didn't show up to any of them and instead sent someone else. this is because he isn't actually interested in understanding any of this. he wants to make noises he believes will get him out of the deal. he's not arguing in good faith i did read it, or at least the opening section. my opinion is that both parties are lying, but elon will be the one to lose because he has to 1) prove twitter is lying and 2) that it's relevant, whereas twitter doesn't have to prove anything, they just have to prevent elon from derailing the proceedings. i'm just not willing to say there is zero risk to twitter of damaging information coming out of the trial even if they win, and they may be motivated to settle if they've got something to hide. that opinion is what spawned the whole last page of debate. i'm trying to avoid going around in circles on this and only replying to stuff that's new instead of repeating myself for the 3rd or 4th time, but that's the gist of what i've been saying. PIZZA.BAT posted:he's lying. just like he lies about everything else. for someone who's been following this thread you're giving him a lot of benefit when he's consistently shown to not be deserving of it elon is a subject matter expert on lying to the SEC, so obviously he knows how to recognize fellow talent 
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Aug 15, 2022 16:43
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https://imgur.com/gallery/lS8XDbD
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Aug 15, 2022 16:45
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I guess they never trained it to interpret horse. Should have shown what it thinks it is when overtaking.
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Aug 15, 2022 16:57
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Bad Purchase posted:i did read it, or at least the opening section we read more than the opening section, here you go: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3862643&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1436#post525339761
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Aug 15, 2022 19:01
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If anything, I’m even now more confident Bad purchase is wrong despite hilarious levels of self-assuredness. So who all is buying Twitter stock now?
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Aug 15, 2022 19:48
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Flowers for QAnon posted:If anything, I’m even now more confident Bad purchase is wrong despite hilarious levels of self-assuredness. So who all is buying Twitter stock now? i got in at $36. i could liquidate now for a pretty tidy short-term profit but it's not about the money for me. i want musk to pay me
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Aug 15, 2022 19:50
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PIZZA.BAT posted:i want musk to pay me That's a good point, i might have to buy a single share for the potential moral victory
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Aug 15, 2022 19:59
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Flowers for QAnon posted:If anything, I’m even now more confident Bad purchase is wrong despite hilarious levels of self-assuredness. So who all is buying Twitter stock now? you think elon is going to win? or do you just mean there won’t be a settlement?
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Aug 15, 2022 19:59
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Bad Purchase posted:you think elon is going to win? or do you just mean there won’t be a settlement? Why would I buy Twitter stock if I thought Elon would win?
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Aug 15, 2022 20:05
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Flowers for QAnon posted:Why would I buy Twitter stock if I thought Elon would win? that’s exactly why i’m asking. you said you’re sure i’m wrong, and i’ve been saying elon will probably lose or will have to pay a big settlement. was trying to figure out what you think is wrong. sounds like the settlement part?
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Aug 15, 2022 20:10
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Bad Purchase posted:that’s exactly why i’m asking. you said you’re sure i’m wrong, and i’ve been saying elon will probably lose or will have to pay a big settlement. was trying to figure out what you think is wrong. sounds like the settlement part? I'm guessing that they're referring more to the idea that you seem to think Musk has more than a snowball's chance in hell at winning or at least prolonging this case so he can run the clock out on his financial obligations, when all indicators point to the exact opposite. Musk signed a dumb contract that's heavily weighted in Twitter's favor, nothing he's claiming in the lawsuit has any actual bearing on the deal he signed, and the particular court in Delaware and the particular judge in this case are apparently very very good at taking these sorts of cases and resolving them in short order (and more often than not in favor of the corporate plaintiffs, which is Twitter in this case). The only way Musk has a path to victory is if the judge is secretly a huge Musk fan, or if Twitter's legal team suddenly turns into a pack of goofs from a slapstick comedy, neither of which I'm guessing is particularly likely here.
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Aug 15, 2022 21:37
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If Elon Musk made a stand right here right now to ban leaf blowers everywhere and for all time I might look favorably upon him!
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Aug 15, 2022 21:54
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Sydney Bottocks posted:I'm guessing that they're referring more to the idea that you seem to think Musk has more than a snowball's chance in hell at winning or at least prolonging this case so he can run the clock out on his financial obligations, when all indicators point to the exact opposite. i’ve never said he had any chance of actually winning or running out the clock, only that the chance a settlement could be reached is not zero
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Aug 15, 2022 22:02
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Bad Purchase posted:i’ve never said he had any chance of actually winning or running out the clock, only that the chance a settlement could be reached is not zero I get Musk potentially wanting to settle (though my guess is if he actually had the money to do so, he would have made an offer to settle out of court once the suit was actually filed; that plus he's enough of a loudmouth egotist like Trump that he wouldn't want to do that in order to not appear "weak", as well as missing out on all those sweet news headlines he's been getting since this whole debacle started), but why would Twitter want to settle? The contract is weighted in their favor, and both the judge and the court have shown that in these types of cases in Delaware, they're often decided quickly and in the corporate plaintiffs' favor. They have absolutely nothing to gain from an outcome that isn't "Elon Musk has been ordered to fulfill his end of the contract and complete the purchase of Twitter".
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Aug 15, 2022 22:14
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Musk should just buy it already and then give it to Grimes see how that turns out
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Aug 15, 2022 22:16
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for the people who are still 100% convinced that the only possible outcome is elon buying all of twitter for $54.20/share in 2 months time (or perhaps slightly longer to allow his loans and telsa sales to resolve), what is your explanation for the current share price being $44.50? that $9.70 difference means you'd earn a ~22% return in just a few months if you buy now. obviously there's opportunity cost to consider, so we shouldn't expect arbitrage to close the gap completely, but a guaranteed 20% in a couple months is still extremely enticing. especially this year. so why hasn't goldman sachs already eaten that free lunch? do we know something in this thread that they don't?
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Aug 15, 2022 23:20
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Bad Purchase posted:i’ve never said he had any chance of actually winning or running out the clock, only that the chance a settlement could be reached is not zero You should really go and read all the Matt Levine columns at bloomberg about this whole shitshow. He has laid out very clearly how the bot this is no danger to twitter other than completely ridiculous scenarios like most of twitter being fake. (Also he's a good and witty writer, and possibly responsible for the recent crypto crash!) His general prediction is that a settlement is the most likely outcome, Elon does not buy Twitter, but that said settlement will not be favorable to Musk at all. And that the judge will probably be encouraging a settlement, because forcing the idiot to buy a company that he no longer wants and will probably wreck is bad for everyone. Elon just sold $7 billion worth of tesla shares so uh it seems like negotiations are probably already happening. edit: Bad Purchase posted:what is your explanation for the current share price being $44.50? People don't believe he will be finishing the purchase at $54, which is a good assumption. But note that just a few weeks ago it was under $40, reflecting even less expectation that it would happen. Klyith fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 23:42
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i've been arguing against the people who believe a settlement is impossible this whole time. i don't need convincing that elon might not end up buying twitter. also, yes, i'm aware of him selling off billions of tesla shares this week and already mentioned it a page or so ago with the exact same reasoning:Bad Purchase posted:he has sold off a few billion more of tesla stock recently, which might hint at how much he has to work with for settlement negotiations before the trial.
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Aug 15, 2022 23:49
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Bad Purchase posted:i've been arguing against the people who believe a settlement is impossible this whole time. no, you've been arguing that the bot thing was a actual possible danger to twitter if anything you are saying that a settlement might be more plausible because twitter has reason to settle. they don't, unless elon pays a shitload more than $1 billion.
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Aug 15, 2022 23:49
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Elon Musk eats farts.
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Aug 15, 2022 23:51
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Klyith posted:no, you've been arguing that the bot thing was a actual possible danger to twitter i've been saying both that a settlement is possible and that the bot issue is a possible danger to twitter. it's not an either/or.
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Aug 15, 2022 23:55
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Bad Purchase posted:for the people who are still 100% convinced that the only possible outcome is elon buying all of twitter for $54.20/share in 2 months time (or perhaps slightly longer to allow his loans and telsa sales to resolve), what is your explanation for the current share price being $44.50? Are the big shareholders selling? GS probably doesn't care about the few millions they could make flipping retail and driving the market price up.
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Aug 15, 2022 23:58
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goldman is just an example. you don't think there are any well informed fund managers looking for a quick flip?
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Aug 16, 2022 00:05
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Bad Purchase posted:i've been saying both that a settlement is possible and that the bot issue is a possible danger to twitter. it's not an either/or. So it's impossible to say if they're bad or not?
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Aug 16, 2022 00:05
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Hello Sailor posted:So it's impossible to say if they're bad or not? it's right there in my name
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Aug 16, 2022 00:06
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Bad Purchase posted:goldman is just an example. you don't think there are any well informed fund managers looking for a quick flip? well twitter share price is up 15% in the last month.
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Aug 16, 2022 00:23
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think i'm gonna dip out of this thread for a bit, at least until elon's pants fall down again or something new happens. i feel like the trial outcome and MDAU horse is long dead now and i don't want this to keep going in circles page after page. it's been too much already and i'm sorry for my part of the inevitable thread-descending-on-itself that occurs in the absence of anything external to point and laugh at.
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Aug 16, 2022 00:24
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Bad Purchase posted:think i'm gonna dip out of this thread for a bit, at least until elon's pants fall down again or something new happens. i feel like the trial outcome and MDAU horse is long dead now and i don't want this to keep going in circles page after page. it's been too much already and i'm sorry for my part of the inevitable thread-descending-on-itself that occurs in the absence of anything external to point and laugh at. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1558636751370928128
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Aug 16, 2022 00:36
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Bad Purchase posted:i've been arguing against the people who believe a settlement is impossible this whole time. i don't need convincing that elon might not end up buying twitter. also, yes, i'm aware of him selling off billions of tesla shares this week and already mentioned it a page or so ago with the exact same reasoning: You’ve been passionately arguing for pages, a position that is little more than, “I think it’s more complex than you may think” Why?
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Aug 16, 2022 04:28
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Wow, an IT Crowd reference? Way to keep up with the memes of the times, Musk-man!
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Aug 16, 2022 04:32
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Is "Econonmy" supposed to mean something, or am I just being dumb in even asking?
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Aug 16, 2022 11:25
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Durzel posted:Is "Econonmy" supposed to mean something, or am I just being dumb in even asking? I think he's just complaining about inflation and Biden with an outdated meme.
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Aug 16, 2022 12:46
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i lose a lot of sleep thinking about how inflation affects those poor billionaires
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Aug 16, 2022 12:58
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i guess costs would seem pretty high if you started learning about economies using an apartheid emerald mine
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