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The gem in the blue tree is +replenishment. If it's in the front half I always take the blue tree pretty early because it lets you recover faster to fight more. If it's in the back half I still take the blue line before the yellow (especially on a melee lord).
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Aug 16, 2022 14:52
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You people with your talk about VC are going to make me play a Ghorst campaign first if you keep this up.
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Aug 16, 2022 14:52
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Same, I've tried the "rush to the end of blue for the upkeep reduction" strat but I'd rather just get the force multiplier skills that'll turn a near defeat into a clear victory and just starts making larges amounts of the map more accessible. The other thing is that while upkeep reduction is nice, 15% isn't actually all that much in practice. When your armies are cheap, it doesn't matter, it saves you enough money to get maybe 1 more cheap unit. When you get to the point that your armies are expensive, you generally have enough income that the upkeep reduction doesn't matter. Like you said, bonuses to your troops are the best way to go in the beginning. Slightly beefier basic troops are going to have a big impact in the early game. I usually go for the lord combat skills/spells/stats after getting the buffs for my basic units.
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Aug 16, 2022 14:55
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Generally I only use blue lines for point dumps after I have gotten more effective skills unlocked. One change I would like to see for the blue tree would be the addition of mutually exclusive single point skills with respectable benefits. Essentially they'd work like rank 7 redline skills but for your lords instead. For example, after hitting rank 12 and spending 6 points in the previous tier you can choose something like: Campaigner: +20% campaign movement -20% attrition damage from all sources +5% replenishment Overseer: +15% income in local province -25% construction time +3 PO Marshal: +2 local recruitment +1 global recruitment -35% recruitment cost Just as an example, but the blue line could be a lot more interesting than what it is right now. I really liked Troy's skill trees.
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Aug 16, 2022 14:59
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DaysBefore posted:It's really hard to choose anything other than the straight-up army wide buffs in the red skills (I guess spells too if your lord is some kind of nerd wizard). +1 Public Order in my local friendly province or +3 Attack to fourteen of the twenty units in my army, hmm whatever will I choose?
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Aug 16, 2022 15:00
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jokes posted:Tyrion and Alarielle have an arrangement i'm not sure if this was a joke but they Literally Do
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Aug 16, 2022 15:01
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Finally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgUHb2GUFuo
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Aug 16, 2022 15:01
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Depending on the lord and faction, yellow line skills could be more bang for your buck with destroying enemy armies than investing more then 2-3 points in buffing a low tier unit.
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Aug 16, 2022 15:08
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I really like the animation of Skarbrand stomping on a guy and just vaporizing him
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Aug 16, 2022 15:13
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A better showcase of the blood DLC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv-W6mg0L9A
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Aug 16, 2022 15:16
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blue line has replenishment and upkeep reduction. plus for the aggro factions it has sack / loot boosting. like it's not a slam pick with every lord but it's also not on auto ignore generally I'll put some early points into red like to give my early troops a boost but like the 2nd tier of red line skills you won't even be able to use for the first 30 turns since they only affect rank 7 troops
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Aug 16, 2022 15:20
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lightning strike means your one stack can sometimes kill an ai with 4 stacks...
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Aug 16, 2022 15:22
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But then I don't get to fight all 4 stacks at once with my one stack and where is the fun in that?
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Aug 16, 2022 15:24
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bob dobbs is dead posted:lightning strike means your one stack can sometimes kill an ai with 4 stacks... Yeah but that is boring. At a certain point between AI being AI and human stack optimization being what it is, your single stack can probably comfortably take any two stacks against you. (Note: might not apply if you deliberately run some kind of themed suboptimal gimmick). But yeah, after a certain point you can take on any meaningful threat and the only difficulty your LL will run up against is if you run up against multiple stacks. And since I LIKE playing with my LL, that means skipping LS. The arrival time is a cool thing and I think they should probably ditch lightning strike altogether and just use the reinforcement timer as-is. Maybe increase the timer effect of the third skill point I guess.
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Aug 16, 2022 15:30
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AnEdgelord posted:I really like the animation of Skarbrand stomping on a guy and just vaporizing him then vaporized dude's unvaporized head is on a stick at the end I think I'm more hyped for IE than I was for the original WH3 release. This cannot go wrong
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Aug 16, 2022 15:38
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I'm rather concerned about the AI seemingly getting stuck on t1 units and building nothing more advanced. That would really crimp the mode as a whole significantly more than factions simply sitting around their starting provinces. I'm probably going to have fun with the new Lords in RoC and wait for the 2.1 patch on IE.
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Aug 16, 2022 15:41
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IE is going to be awesome, but it is also going to be completely full of dumbass AI, poorly balanced bullshit, performance issues, some technical problems, nonsensical diplomacy, and other assorted issues. It would be unrealistic to expect otherwise but people are still going to have grimgrog type meltdowns. Still, using ME as an example I think in a year or two IE may end up being my favorite game / mode of all time and from what we have seen it at least has a solid start.
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Aug 16, 2022 15:50
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So far with all the info we have on the DLC and the WoC rework does it currently seem like there's going to be no reason to use undivided units instead of marked units? That's my main worry with this dlc.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:10
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Given IE is basically locked to Easy, I wonder how many streamers will stick with it this time vs get bored and go back to WH2.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:21
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Lucinice posted:So far with all the info we have on the DLC and the WoC rework does it currently seem like there's going to be no reason to use undivided units instead of marked units? That's my main worry with this dlc. There is a cap for marked units and there are things which specifically buff undivided ones.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:23
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I had an idea for a mod (and it seems that CA has a similar idea with giving you buffs for completing the short campaign) where if you hold certain territories you can upgrade your subfaction into a more all encompassing version that let's you recruit/confederate most or all of the other LLs in your faction, gives you minor versions of their factions buffs. It's essentially the equivalent of EUIV's tag changing where England changes to U.K. after they control the whole British Isles, Castille and Aragon can become Spain after they P.U. each other, and so forth. You even get a faction name change and new CoA.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:30
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Francis posted:Given IE is basically locked to Easy, ???
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Aug 16, 2022 16:30
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Francis posted:Given IE is basically locked to Easy, I wonder how many streamers will stick with it this time vs get bored and go back to WH2. Well, the map is massive and new. there's all the factions to test. (and reworked old ones) and there's no timer or boring chaos realm to mess with you. Actually, the chaos realm and soul race is just so frustrating and boring, that IE sandbox looks amazing.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:40
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The AI is in a very bad state
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Aug 16, 2022 16:41
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Midnightghoul posted:The AI is in a very bad state yeah, I'm most of the way through day 1 of Legend's This is Total War Settra campaign and the AI is so passive. In ME, the Top Knotz are much more aggressive for example.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:49
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Jamwad Hilder posted:The other thing is that while upkeep reduction is nice, 15% isn't actually all that much in practice. You're forgetting Renowned & Feared at the end of the blue line. More importantly a lot depends on whether you have other sources of upkeep reduction such as tech or shipbuilding. 15% is three units in a 20 stack - but if you have another 50% upkeep reduction from something then it becomes six units free in a 20 stack. I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:generally I'll put some early points into red like to give my early troops a boost but like the 2nd tier of red line skills you won't even be able to use for the first 30 turns since they only affect rank 7 troops A lot depends on army composition. If I've a mixed army that uses two red line skills then it's worth spending the red line dot early to enable yourself to take the good Stand Your Ground and then upgrade it for a serious buff. But if e.g. you're running 90% State Troops it's not worth spending the second three dots in red this early.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:55
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IE is a beta release. It will continue to see improvements and changes.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:58
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Hehe, looks like the decapitated slaneesh daemon head Valkia uses as a shield has a little laugh animation to her annoyance.
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Aug 16, 2022 17:06
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I imagine there will be a mod 3 seconds after release that increases AI aggression. Just don't bring back anti-player bias, it's a garbage mechanic.
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Aug 16, 2022 17:06
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My hope is that someday corruption, attrition, and public order become important mechanics that the AI can handle enough that the player can actually use them as a tool against the AI.
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Aug 16, 2022 17:09
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99pct of germs posted:Just don't bring back anti-player bias, it's a garbage mechanic. Nah, give them all the Hun AI
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Aug 16, 2022 17:09
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All of the new Chaos LLs look really fun and powerful. Vilich’s barrier regen abilities in particular look like they could eventually scale to unkillable levels in campaign. Since all of the factions have built-in unit variety mechanics it sure seems like a package that you’ll get four pretty different campaigns out of. And the WoC rework in general seems very fun.
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Aug 16, 2022 17:11
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Regarding blue line skills. How deep / early I invest depends entirely on the faction, given how their blue line is arranged. If a faction gets + ambush chance early (so like vampire counts) I tend to prefer that over just flat lightning striking because there is still some inherent risk involved. If the enemy is coming at you with a triple stack I can ambush one out and then 2v1 the remainder and still have some element of risk, both in the 2v1 fight and also the risk of getting spotted and dogpiled. But I also always roll with the March stance movement cost mod, which really does eliminate some of the squirrelier AI behavior like sacking and March stancing away, but it also seems like it keeps them from rolling like 3+ armies deep quite as much because the backup armies will typically march in behind the lead army from quite a ways out.
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Aug 16, 2022 17:21
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Sotek is playing Valkia and she is a one-woman wrecking ball. That flies. He's on Legendary and perfectly happy sending her into a dwarf pile solo and she comes out the other side covered in blood and almost unscathed. The WoC rework and this DLC pack is pretty much exactly what I wanted from WoC 6 years ago. Worth the wait.
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Aug 16, 2022 17:22
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I've seen a couple of Tarriff videos joking about Aspiring Champions "upgrading" into Chaos Spawn. I wonder if the intent (which isn't implimented yet due to bugs) is for this to be how you recruit Exalted Heroes - The Chaos Gods pick one of of the Aspiring Champs to become an actual Champion, and the rest are made into Spawn because the gods are dicks. Because otherwise I don't see when you would ever use that option. EDIT: On another topic, are the bonus units listed on the LL selection their entire starting army or are those bonus units? SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 17:23
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Jamwad Hilder posted:The other thing is that while upkeep reduction is nice, 15% isn't actually all that much in practice. When your armies are cheap, it doesn't matter, it saves you enough money to get maybe 1 more cheap unit. When you get to the point that your armies are expensive, you generally have enough income that the upkeep reduction doesn't matter. I don't agree for a few reasons but it may also be a difference in playstyles. It's definitely not about saving 70 upkeep across a fodder stack so I can put one more skavenslaves into another stack, it's about knocking 300-500 per turn upkeep off my LL stack so they can trade T2s in for T5s, or my second stack can field another 2-3 elites. 1) Every LL starts with elites and hacking upkeep off them is real good. 2) Many factions(especially Daemons) get early access to elites(Exalted Daemonettes are T3!) 3) Many factions have been balanced by having all their barracks drop by a tier(this is especially dramatic in the likes of Greenskins) so you're not shaving upkeep off your T1 chaff alone when T2 can mean you have pump wagons and trolls and artillery going online. Your first 1-2 stacks getting upkeep reduction is significant but also I tend to play the game by riding my profit line as hard as possible. If I have extra money for a building I spend it and as long as my income is positive I improve my armies or draft another to the limit of that positive balance. If I have a negative balance but I'm on a rampager faction I give myself a few turns worth of time to go destroy and sack a city(i.e. Norsca.) The more efficient my economy is the faster I can become ascendent and make my money issues "not matter" and even then I often up until turn 100 am taking more land and building multiple buildings simultaneously, or investing in T4-T5 buildings that are 7-10k a pop each(just did Nurgle playthrough, ouch.) Basically the faster I can get 2+ stacks with meaningful elites online the better I'm doing in virtually every campaign. Also saving odds and ends to support a defensive chaff stack pays for itself because of the incredible opportunity costs saved of never having to turn my LL or my 1-2 great stacks homewards to defend from a direction I'm not pushing towards. If I save +500 a turn off upkeep reduction that's most of the Lord + 10 fodder that turn a garrison from a hard or unwinnable fight into comfortable, easy defensive wins.
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Aug 16, 2022 17:28
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I just assumed the spawn thing was just a nice flavour thing. Like yeah doing this makes no meta sense but it's also entirely accurate to the way Warhammer works so do it if you want
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Aug 16, 2022 17:30
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Hot drat... Slaaneshi Chosen (with hellscourges) with 65 melee defence, charge reflection, ITP and 10% physical resistance.
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Aug 16, 2022 17:34
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Checked my last campaign as Nurgle to see their upkeeps. Ku'gath: 5,250 (-25% blue line) Exalted Great Unclean One: 4,588 (-25% blue line) Half Chaff, Half Elite: 2,717 (10 nurglings + 9 forsaken/spawn) Defensive Chaff: 2,392 (15-16 nurglings + some beasts) Defensive Chaff: 2,272 (18 nurglings + 1 soulgrinder) Nurgle gets common access to reduced upkeep followers for plaguebearers and nurglings(probably "win a battle with x unit in army") so those values could all be drastically higher and you can see how shaving 1-2k in upkeep off my biggest stacks made it easier to get the defensive guys and the start of my 3rd stack online more easily. Knocking -25% upkeep off the Lord and Heroes helps counter their upkeep naturally rising as they level too. Those three stacks that aren't great for offensive pushing absolutely weigh down and ruin the common 20 stack's ability to beat me in a siege, though admittedly nurgle towers are busted as hell. But just having 10 extra bodies on virtually any faction + garrison gives you a robust defense force. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 17:38
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my ll stacks tend to actually have the worst units since im too lazy to move them to a different stack [ask] me about doing the final v coast battle with sartosa militia
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Aug 16, 2022 17:43
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