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pentyne posted:What do you need in order to appreciate Drakengard? A dark sense of humor. I've only played D3, but if the Nier games are tragedies then Drakengard is a comedy. But it's one of those comedies that sometimes has serious poo poo, like Friends or something.
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Aug 16, 2022 03:33
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pentyne posted:What do you need in order to appreciate Drakengard? patience
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Aug 16, 2022 03:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiu3FnGnHCg e: read all of this -> https://lparchive.org/Drakengard-3/
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Aug 16, 2022 03:44
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pentyne posted:What do you need in order to appreciate Drakengard?
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Aug 16, 2022 03:46
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Steve Yun posted:I’m not familiar with any of it outside of Automata. Are Replicant and Gestalt remixes of Nier? Nier Replicant (Brother Nier) and Nier Gestalt (Father Nier) are the same game with different main characters because marketing didn't think Brother Nier would appeal outside Japan. There's no game just called "Nier". I suppose the remaster makes Brother Nier "canon", but both are mentioned in the weapon stories in Automata.
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Aug 16, 2022 03:47
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Blaziken386 posted:patience for terrible (or, in D3's case, merely subpar) gameplay
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Aug 16, 2022 04:00
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Hikaki posted:I think the difference between the two is that in order to appreciate Automata, you pretty much need to suffer from existential dread and possibly other mental illnesses IRL. Replicant is much more universally relatable/understandable because it's essentially a sympathetic villain story, which is actually becoming quite cliche nowadays. Considering that Automata is one of the best selling RPGs of the generation, with more than a dozen times the sales that the original Nier managed, (and more than six times the announced sales for the remake), I'm skeptical of that "more relatable" argument.
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Aug 16, 2022 04:42
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While Automata has a story that doesn't fall apart the second you start thinking about character motivations (Devola and Popola make no sense in Replicant/Gestalt for instance), the original Nier just has a better cast. 2B and 9S really just don't have that much going on, and they barely ever banter in a way that felt engaging. And really I have to say, I did not really buy the romance angle at all from them. I spent the entire first half of the game thinking it was basically doing a Nier situation, with an older sister and little brother. Then they try and make it more than that in ending A and B, and I just never really bought it. The supporting cast, other than Pascal, just didn't hit as hard for me either. Compare Anemone and the camp to Nier's village with Devola and Popola, the latter just has so much more charm to it. I will say that everything to do with the machine lifeforms (except maybe Adam and Eve) was far better written than everything with the shades, though. They're basically what hold up the game for me, in the end. It is hard to beat the Nier/Weiss/Kaine/Emil dynamic, and it didn't really feel like Automata even came vaguely close to that.
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Aug 16, 2022 05:04
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One of my biggest hurdles in playing Automata was that I really don't like 9S, but now I respect it, because I believe that was the point.
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Aug 16, 2022 05:44
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Hikaki posted:I think the difference between the two is that in order to appreciate Automata, you pretty much need to suffer from existential dread and possibly other mental illnesses IRL. Replicant is much more universally relatable/understandable because it's essentially a sympathetic villain story, which is actually becoming quite cliche nowadays. Uhhh, what the hell is this? Saying you need to have mental illness just to like a video game's story and themes is pretty loving offensive.
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Aug 16, 2022 05:51
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Momomo posted:While Automata has a story that doesn't fall apart the second you start thinking about character motivations (Devola and Popola make no sense in Replicant/Gestalt for instance), the original Nier just has a better cast. 2B and 9S really just don't have that much going on, and they barely ever banter in a way that felt engaging. And really I have to say, I did not really buy the romance angle at all from them. I spent the entire first half of the game thinking it was basically doing a Nier situation, with an older sister and little brother. Then they try and make it more than that in ending A and B, and I just never really bought it. The supporting cast, other than Pascal, just didn't hit as hard for me either. Compare Anemone and the camp to Nier's village with Devola and Popola, the latter just has so much more charm to it. I will say that everything to do with the machine lifeforms (except maybe Adam and Eve) was far better written than everything with the shades, though. They're basically what hold up the game for me, in the end. 2B and 9S have a lot going on between them, but most of it is only visible in hindsight, after the last big reveal. It's a tension that suffuses just about every conversation they have, and that explains a lot of otherwise confusing behavior. Just in case anyone here hasn't finished... 2B's actual designation is 2E, and her job is to murder 9S whenever he asks too many questions. It's why you get things like the weird mix of her treating machines with way more empathy than 9S, but telling him to stop being stupid when he asks if they have feelings, or her being deeply impacted by 9S not remembering the prologue, despite them having just met. Also, while 2B and her pod don't get into Weiss style snarky banter, there is someone who 042 just constantly mocks for being an idiot, and it's great.
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Aug 16, 2022 05:56
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OhFunny posted:Nier Replicant (Brother Nier) and Nier Gestalt (Father Nier) are the same game with different main characters because marketing didn't think Brother Nier would appeal outside Japan. There's no game just called "Nier". 
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Aug 16, 2022 06:04
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Both Brother and Father Nier are canon because the drakenierverse is about history constantly repeating the same mistakes
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Aug 16, 2022 06:04
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amigolupus posted:Uhhh, what the hell is this? Saying you need to have mental illness just to like a video game's story and themes is pretty loving offensive. I don't think it's a stretch to say that a game about existential dread will resonate with people who have existential dread? It's also not a stretch to say that normal, healthy-minded people do not go around dreading their own existence.
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Aug 16, 2022 06:51
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Hikaki posted:I don't think it's a stretch to say that a game about existential dread will resonate with people who have existential dread? It's also not a stretch to say that normal, healthy-minded people do not go around dreading their own existence. I mean it probably helps it resonate more, but, like, it's certainly not required. (Anecdotal evidence: I have crippling depression and it's one of my favorite games of all time, one of my friends with no major mental illnesses really enjoyed Route A, but could not find it in him to play all the way through Route B) But, like. It's a gorgeous game with a unique art style and an amazing soundtrack. It's well written in both the "batshit crazy anime bullshit" way and the "actually hitting themes and stuff" way, with the latter hitting a good bit of themes that you don't see in AAA games that much. It pulls some serious subversions that nobody who hasn't played a Yoko Taro game before will predict, and pulls them well. (Mostly. Hey Pascal I was handling those machines just fine, really. ) The story is good for most people just on quality and novelty alone. And then, you know. Platinum games did the combat, it's loving Diet Bayonetta with RPG elements. It says something about the quality of the gameplay that I am tempted to replay it, even after it had the sort of ending that makes a game feel wrong to replay to me. Even if the themes don't resonate incredibly deeply with you, it's also a very good video game. Captain France fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 08:07
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chiasaur11 posted:2B and 9S have a lot going on between them, but most of it is only visible in hindsight, after the last big reveal. It's a tension that suffuses just about every conversation they have, and that explains a lot of otherwise confusing behavior. They have something going for them and all, but when actually going through the story they just aren't that interesting to listen to, and it ends up being a lot less fun or interesting. There are a few things that make more sense in hindsight, but I really wish they had actually had like, any real conversation at all during the game.
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Aug 16, 2022 13:48
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saying you literally "need" to have mental illness to fully appreciate nier automata is the most batshit stupid thing anyone has ever said in this thread, bar none. congratulations. i didnt know people who dont think about death frequently/have mh issues are just incapable of critical thinking, curiosity or empathy
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Aug 16, 2022 13:53
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just because im not an rear end man doesnt mean i cannot apppreciate a fine rump.
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Aug 16, 2022 13:56
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Frankly if in the year 2022 you’re not thinking about death or dying every second of your life, you’re probably just a not yet mentally developed child.
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Aug 16, 2022 14:09
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"I alone experience existential dread," I said on the Internet.
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Aug 16, 2022 14:32
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beep by grandpa posted:just because im not an rear end man doesnt mean i cannot apppreciate a fine rump. N:A probably sold like half its total lifetime sales to the anime pervert crowd
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Aug 16, 2022 15:05
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Emil's a bit gayer in the Brother Nier version too isn't he? Like he sighs wistfully about wanting to be Nier's bride.
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Aug 16, 2022 15:32
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Does he still have a crush on nier in the dad version? The age gap makes that a little hairier imo, but it's been so long since i played gestalt that I don't remember it either way i also like that we've all mostly agreed the main character's name is nier, even though i think YT has explicitly said that it's not. death of the author, etc
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Aug 16, 2022 15:37
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i'm pretty sure in the gacha brother nier is just called "The World-Ender"
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Aug 16, 2022 15:39
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Ainsley McTree posted:Does he still have a crush on nier in the dad version? The age gap makes that a little hairier imo, but it's been so long since i played gestalt that I don't remember it either way I don’t think it’s a thing in Gestalt, which makes sense, a kid in his early teens (mentally since I guess he’s like thousands of years old) having romantic feelings for a kid in his late teens is kinda cute, a dad whose daughter is around Emil’s age not quite so much whether or not it’s requited.
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Aug 16, 2022 15:46
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It's been years since I played Nier: Gestalt, but I don't recall Emil saying anything (in that version) I'd interpret as crushing on Father Nier. I later learned he had a crush on Brother Nier and said "Oh, okay" and figured it was something they expanded on in the side materials. I wouldn't be surprised if they just decided to make it more overt in the remake. Emil is still very "Attached" to Father Nier (and Brother Nier, I'd imagine), but I always read that as him latching onto a makeshift parental figure after being accepted despite what happened to him. He's an affectionate person by nature, and despite what certain pockets of the Internet will tell you, it's entirely possible for two dudes to share an emotional connection without crushing on each other (I say, but also acknowledge Emil does, in fact, like Brother Nier romantically).
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Aug 16, 2022 15:57
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Here's the English dialogue from Emil's wedding talk in the remake, which is more or less accurate to the original Replicant:quote:Emil: "Oh..." And here's the dialogue from Gestalt: quote:Emil: "Oh..." Note that Gestalt has Emil say for himself that he wants a wife rather than having it be an assumption on Nier and Weiss's parts Augus fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 16:43
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beep by grandpa posted:saying you literally "need" to have mental illness to fully appreciate nier automata is the most batshit stupid thing anyone has ever said in this thread, bar none. congratulations. i didnt know people who dont think about death frequently/have mh issues are just incapable of critical thinking, curiosity or empathy drat man I'm not trying to say that literally no one can appreciate it except for X people, but since you used the word empathy: there is a difference between empathy and sympathy. It's a difference that you can't understand without experience. I think people are interpreting this as an insult or some form of gatekeeping to people who enjoyed the game but don't have that experience. It's not. When I was a kid, I witnessed a girl break down in class because she found out she was adopted. We were talking about it and I said "I know what she feels like." Someone else said "No, you don't." That made me mad at the time but later I realized that yeah, I really didn't and I never truly will no matter how sympathetic I am. It's not an insult to my intelligence, it's just how experience works. This idea is literally in the game: you need to read the book, not download it. This is the same reason why I think Replicant is more relatable. Everyone already has the experience of having some form of antagonist in their lives. Hopefully the experience of realizing that the antagonist is also human like you was there as well. Hikaki fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 20:30
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quote:that made me mad at the time but later I realized Good now take that experience and apply it to this situation because you wrote quote:I think the difference between the two is that in order to appreciate Automata, you pretty much need to suffer from existential dread and possibly other mental illnesses IRL. which is loving stupid
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Aug 16, 2022 20:36
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I didn't think the idea of "you need to experience X to fully understand X" was such a contentious topic. Alright, I'll shut up now.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:49
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IIMO you can't really appreciate Nier Automata unless you've personally been an android fighting in a pointless forever war with a bunch of machines.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:53
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I mean, I think I understand the point. Nier is about trying to save a loved one. The entire motivation of the game is emotional - to keep your daughter alive. I don't ahve a daughter but I understand that all-consuming drive to protect a loved one. I don't know anything about Nier A except it has a sexy rear end lady protagonist but it does seem like it's trying for something a bit more abstract or thoughtful. Its vastly superior sales can probably be safely attributed to having a sexy rear end lady protagonist, as well as having gameplay that isn't total garbage like Nier's was.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:54
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I mean to be fair beep by grandpa posted:people who dont think about death frequently/have mh issues are just incapable of critical thinking, curiosity or empathy is probably true lmao
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Aug 16, 2022 21:13
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Word choice matters!
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Aug 16, 2022 21:16
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Nier Automata generally aims to be thought-provoking more than its trying to be relatable. The setting is pretty alien at first glance, you’re a weird gothic samurai robot fighting weird geometry robots. It’s trying to make the player think about things in a different way than they normally would and ask themselves difficult questions.NikkolasKing posted:Its vastly superior sales can probably be safely attributed to having a sexy rear end lady protagonist, as well as having gameplay that isn't total garbage like Nier's was. probably helps that it had Platinum’s name attached to it, was marketed more than “not at all”, and yoko taro’s appearance onstage in his Emil mask to unveil the game was the only fun and memorable part of an otherwise miserable E3 press conference and got a lot of people curious about what was up with that.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:45
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oh yeah also Nier Automata has a unique aesthetic that stands out at a glance while the original Nier had box art that looked like this
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Aug 16, 2022 22:08
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tbh i'm still mad as gently caress that the idiots at squeenix of america thought we wouldn't find out that they took out emil's queerness in the original nier release. that is a straight up hate crime what the gently caress.
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Aug 16, 2022 23:02
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ShimaTetsuo posted:tbh i'm still mad as gently caress that the idiots at squeenix of america thought we wouldn't find out that they took out emil's queerness in the original nier release. that is a straight up hate crime what the gently caress. Yes, because what the game needed was old man Nier being romantically desired by a young boy. That would have been a great look instead, yeah? Edit: seriously, the Kaine relationship gets odd enough as it is when you get to the last two endings. I don't see the game's original release as seriously investigating Emil's sexuality one way or another, and while you can argue it weakens a part of the game I'm not sure how you leave what was already there without causing other issues. Shinjobi fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 23:10
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I do not think anyone would care about that no
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Aug 16, 2022 23:19
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NikkolasKing posted:I mean, I think I understand the point. Nier is about trying to save a loved one. The entire motivation of the game is emotional - to keep your daughter alive. I don't ahve a daughter but I understand that all-consuming drive to protect a loved one. Nier Automata’s emotional climax is really the end credits. There’s no swords, no sexy girl, and a very difficult question being asked to you, the player, sitting on a couch. The other 30 hours you spent playing the game was really just emotionally preparing you for this question. I thought the experience was pretty unique!
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Aug 16, 2022 23:20
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