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Could take a glance at Circadian Dice. It feels pretty lightweight but I do like how short the runs are.
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Aug 17, 2022 11:37
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HopperUK posted:Could take a glance at Circadian Dice. It feels pretty lightweight but I do like how short the runs are. Forward is a game in this vein, lightweight card fighting 'dungeon' crawler https://store.steampowered.com/app/1766390/FORWARD_Escape_the_Fold/
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Aug 17, 2022 12:05
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Actually for shits, since I've been playing a lot of them lately, here's my full list of 'deckbuilders' (sorta) from Steam's recently played: Alina of the Arena - A+ deckbuilding tactical combat, love this, great music and presentation, fun to play and not too lengthy. Nowhere Prophet - What if Hearthstone but with a tactical grid. Superb aesthetic and music. Vault of the Void - Slay the Spire meets... MtG maybe? It's cool, try it. Heavy emphasis on retooling your deck for each fight on harder difficulties - static decksize but you can swap cards before every battle. Gordian Quest - Yuck. Arcanium - I like this game's aesthetic and it's getting closer to release, but something about the moment to moment gameplay doesn't keep me coming back Roguebook - see Arcanium Everyone's already heard of Slay the Spire, Monster Train, and Griftlands I think
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Aug 17, 2022 12:11
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Of interest there’s also One Step From Eden, the elevator pitch here is that it’s a real-time grid based action game (inspired by megaman battle network) where your verbs are driven by StS style cards and deck building.
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Aug 17, 2022 12:32
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victrix posted:Nowhere Prophet - What if Hearthstone but with a tactical grid. Superb aesthetic and music. Hearthstone's now-abandoned Dungeon Run mode is my favorite deck builder bar none so this immediately grabbed my attention.
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Aug 17, 2022 12:35
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ConfusedPig posted:Of interest there’s also One Step From Eden, the elevator pitch here is that it’s a real-time grid based action game (inspired by megaman battle network) where your verbs are driven by StS style cards and deck building. I found the deckbuilding aspect of that game to be very unsatisfying. The game seems to be mostly focused around dodging enemy patters and then mashing one button to attack and most of the "deckbuilding" is just you trying to get a few synergistic cards while removing everything else.
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Aug 17, 2022 12:44
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Jack Trades posted:I found the deckbuilding aspect of that game to be very unsatisfying. that's not really the case, it's a very skill-intensive game with how fast it is but the strength of your deck makes a massive difference, to the point that you can build decks on the base difficulty that require 0 skill to pilot and barely need you to dodge, regardless of what character you play. nearly every character needs to build their deck as their main offense, a few characters have strong attack buttons but those generally take a lot of work to set up (e.g. one does half the damage of your current money, one has a weapon that restores mana on hit [to cast more spells]) and need to be supplemented by a strong deck, either for DPS, control, or defense, or probably a mix of all three, also depending on what artefacts you get on a particular run. if you're a character with a good weapon you want a big fat deck anyway, every uhh 5 spells i think? increases your mana regen by +0.1/s and the weapons use mana. but most of the characters just have a utility weapon that won't get you far without a good deck. it's a pretty deep game and it's a lot of fun to experiment in.
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Aug 17, 2022 12:57
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Things do eventually start to homogenize a bit at insane difficulty levels simply because everything is so loving fast and deadly that you have to build an omnicidal njghtmare deck that largely plays itself unless you have inhuman reflexes, but that doesn't matter that much anyway since the ultra-high difficulty options (full looping, max Hell Pass, etc) are strictly the province of masochists anyway
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Aug 17, 2022 13:09
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that is definitely true but most deckbuilding games seem to end up in optimisation hell when you start scraping the ceiling of the difficulty, though i guess eden is a bit more egregious about it since it's harder and faster than most roguelites/likes and the hell passes gradually peel away every bit of shelter until it's a tornado of death coming at you the whole run.
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Aug 17, 2022 13:22
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victrix posted:Actually for shits, since I've been playing a lot of them lately, here's my full list of 'deckbuilders' (sorta) from Steam's recently played: What didn't you like about Gordian Quest? I think it's pretty decent for a looter/deckbuilder, there's just a lot to keep track of and the UI could use some love.
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Aug 17, 2022 15:25
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Oh wow gently caress these later curses in backpack hero. I just lost a promising bow run because I didn’t know placing a 2x2 curse would permanently erase my items.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:08
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Gordian Quest is fun I dug it
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Aug 17, 2022 17:16
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victrix posted:Vault of the Void - Slay the Spire meets... MtG maybe? It's cool, try it. Heavy emphasis on retooling your deck for each fight on harder difficulties - static decksize but you can swap cards before every battle. VotV has great "turn by turn" gameplay thanks to the card retain / purge mechanics and the fact that you block the turn after taking damage so you can make yourself pretty RNG proof on that front. It shows you an entire floor of card rewards at once so you can plan your build way in advance and starting a new floor is a very fun exercise in choosing your path to pick up various cards or upgrades, shops, etc. I think the forced 20 card deck is a great way to keep card rewards interesting and avoid the issue of card removals always being super optimal (to clarify: VotV only has card removal for its equivalent of curses). I also like that the metaprogression is extremely light touch, only giving you a bit more flexibility with your card picks each run. The game gives you a lot of card upgrades (unless you really don't go out of your way to pick them up) and some of them are extremely strong, so you can make even a weak deck much stronger without adding new cards. Similarly, void stones are basically like extra text you "attach" to cards which gives stuff like "draw 1, discard 1" or "play this card twice" - nothing particularly novel for the genre, but the game does it well. The downside is that it lacks the ability to make really bullshit decks like you can in StS and each of the characters only has a few general ways to play, and often your deck might do most or all of those things at once to some degree. Rares are really drat rare and it's very possible to get ones that don't fit your deck at all; a problem with StS also has sometimes but VotV rares feel significantly rarer, and also are much less frequently build defining. Relics are mostly forgettable, even the powerful ones, and there are a LOT of "when you do x counter increases; when counter hits y, reset and z happens" Generally speaking the game is fantastic from the perspective of providing fun and challenging gameplay every turn but lacks the crazy synergies and sudden power spikes you seem to get in a lot of other deckbuilders; although you can craft a very powerful deck it's usually through getting a few strong cards with the right void stones on them, and then having enough card draw to keep playing them repeatedly. Oh and I guess it's worth mentioning that the characters all have their own individual gimmicks which are meaningful enough to make them different, even ignoring the different card pools, although to my eye the Hidden and Tempest are similar enough that there is some overlap - Tempest's gimmick is generating tons of energy (and getting extra bonuses from using lots of energy in a single turn) and a debuff called "shock" which adds damage when you attack an enemy, Hidden's gimmick is stacking "combo" which makes cards play multiple times, and bleed, which is StS bleed. I find the two play pretty similarly, playing defensively to build up your resources / debuffs and then doing tons of damage all at once. But I'll admit I kind of dislike and am bad at playing the Hidden so I'm probably just being biased. The Daughter and Enlightened are very unique though.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:17
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I'll second Indies' Lies - it has pretty good art by the standards of the genre and a huge amount of content. The one major caveat is that you have to beat the game like 10-15 times to claw your way up to a difficulty that's on par with StS ascension 0; you have way too much control over your deck size before then, since you can straight up replace cards instead of having to find opportunities for removal. The lower difficulties aren't even teaching you good habits at that point it's just a completely different game. e: Vault is also pretty cool but it definitely feels like an Early Access game - balance across the characters was way off when I was playing a couple months ago. Or I just really suck with the Daughter, also possible. It felt impossible to lose with the other three at difficulties where I really needed the stars to align to make it with her. Irony.or.Death fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 17:19
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Irony.or.Death posted:e: Vault is also pretty cool but it definitely feels like an Early Access game - balance across the characters was way off when I was playing a couple months ago. Or I just really suck with the Daughter, also possible. It felt impossible to lose with the other three at difficulties where I really needed the stars to align to make it with her. The dev's in the middle of reworking all of the classes' cards, the Daughter just got done recently, Tempest is generally recognised as being the strongest character overall so the changes were generally aimed at bringing up the other classes to the same level. Daughter is definitely the hardest to play.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:30
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Is Erannorth the closest I'll get to a modern version of the Microprose M:tG game?
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Aug 17, 2022 17:43
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Gordian Quest is one of those meaty games with a lot of stuff going on that you spend like 4 hours on and you suddenly realize you actually don't like playing because the flow feels off and what kept you going was the differences from other games in the genre, well to me anyway
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Aug 17, 2022 18:09
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Speaking of deckbuilders, has anyone tried Nadir? https://store.steampowered.com/app/1535100/Nadir_A_Grimdark_Deckbuilder/
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Aug 17, 2022 18:35
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tokenbrownguy posted:Speaking of deckbuilders, has anyone tried Nadir? https://store.steampowered.com/app/1535100/Nadir_A_Grimdark_Deckbuilder/ As a general rule of thumb, anything advertising itself as 'grimdark' is not worth looking at. It hasn't steered me wrong yet. (I have not played the game.)
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Aug 17, 2022 18:54
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I have no goddamn idea what I'm doing in Erannorth Chronicles. I made a necromancer and haven't really interacted much with the standard deck play parts because I just keep throwing undead at the problem. Editing in my Gordian Quest review: GrandpaPants posted:I played a bit of Gordian Quest over the weekend since it just got out of EA and it's alright, but ultimately I don't think it's worth buying. I didn't play the Realm Mode, which I think is more the STS-like structure, but the campaign, at least Act 1 and some of Act 2 that I played, was chock full of filler fights where one of my dudes (probably overpowered) just destroyed on his turn, to the extent that the other two members of my party basically do nothing unless there's a boss, in which case they still basically do nothing compared to the one dude. As a result, anything that provides Guard is basically useless and anything that summons is also not that great, as summons are essentially dots that can also tank some damage. This is all on Normal and Acts 1-2, so maybe I need to jack the difficulty up, but fights just become tedious when I'm doing something for hours (Act 1 took me like 6 hours to beat...) with very little gain. Really, any card that needs set up (i.e., this attack does +20% damage for each have token XYZ you have) just becomes wasted. The rest of the adventuring is also pretty tedious, including camping and adventuring, where like, again, you just sorta do the same things over and over again with very questionable gains (except Camping, where inexplicably you can upgrade 2 of your cards in the party, which is a pretty huge gain?). GrandpaPants fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 19:05
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Deakul posted:What didn't you like about Gordian Quest? I think it's pretty decent for a looter/deckbuilder, there's just a lot to keep track of and the UI could use some love. I've played a lot of it and I'd say that the campaign mode(which they spent a ton of dev time on) is incredibly boring and bad and the StS knockoff mode is okay to decent. The campaign suffers really badly from there being pretty much no incentive to change up a character's build meaningfully. This is fine in most deckbuilders because a "run" is like 2-3 hours long at absolute maximum, but the Gordian Quest campaign is easily a double digit number of hours even if you're zooming. This means that if you start with Monk Guy at the beginning, Monk Guy's deck will change and develop for the first couple hours as you fill out with better cards/upgrades and then will basically be finished for the rest of the game with no meaningful movement besides passive stats going up and maybe swapping out gear pieces. It's really easy to have a party that is "finished" by like, the start of Act 2 and there's 4 acts. The combat is also balanced around this, too - you can switch party members in and out, but the power shift between bringing a finished character and an unfinished character is fairly huge, so the fights punish you pretty bad if you bring in characters that are too far behind the curve. The StS mode is a lot better because builds don't have time to wear out their welcome so it has a lot more variety and dynamism, but it suffers from the progression systems being built around a much longer campaign. A "quick run" in the StS mode - intentionally about the length of an actual StS run - simply won't let your characters level up enough to actually utilize a lot of the customization levers. I think it's a 6 or 7 out of 10 game overall. It's not horrible and you can definitely get fun out of it, but it's not super awesome either.
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Aug 17, 2022 19:09
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Quixzlizx posted:Is Erannorth the closest I'll get to a modern version of the Microprose M:tG game? What's the difference between Chronicles and Reborn?
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Aug 17, 2022 19:28
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DrManiac posted:Oh wow gently caress these later curses in backpack hero. I just lost a promising bow run because I didn’t know placing a 2x2 curse would permanently erase my items. Yeah, Backpack Hero seems really unfriendly to block builds since curses are so punishing. You have to dedicate a lot of space to armor/buildings and then you need even more space so that you have room for curses. You can take damage to skip the curse but it goes straight through block, it scales each time you get cursed so it eventually becomes unsustainable, and if you have enough healing to overcome the curse then you probably don't really need that much block in the first place. Actually in general it feels a bit underbaked to me. Too many passive bonuses, so once your build starts to come together the game encourages you to just sit on the same loadout forever with very incremental adjustments, which makes both the combat and inventory management get very repetitive. After the first couple floors the game usually turns into mindlessly clicking through combats to get loot drops that you will just discard anyhow.
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Aug 17, 2022 19:29
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Prism posted:As a general rule of thumb, anything advertising itself as 'grimdark' is not worth looking at. It hasn't steered me wrong yet. The aesthetic looks pretty sick from the screenshots, they've got a great art style going. It isn't like a warhammer ripoff or anything as the term implies
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Aug 17, 2022 19:32
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Jack Trades posted:Speaking of roguelike deckbuilders, what the gently caress happened to Monster Train? It's like the best game in it's genre and they only released one medium sized DLC for it and then it's been radio silence ever since. Ask and ye shall receive https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/inkbound-is-an-upcoming-turn-based-roguelike-from-the-monster-train-devs
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Aug 17, 2022 19:39
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Zero Punctuation did Cult of the Lamb, coming to more or less the same conclusion I did. https://www.escapistmagazine.com/cult-of-the-lamb-zero-punctuation/
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Aug 17, 2022 19:49
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Prism posted:As a general rule of thumb, anything advertising itself as 'grimdark' is not worth looking at. It hasn't steered me wrong yet. The Darkest Dungeon VA guy has a lot to answer for.
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Aug 17, 2022 20:03
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Angry Diplomat posted:Things do eventually start to homogenize a bit at insane difficulty levels simply because everything is so loving fast and deadly that you have to build an omnicidal njghtmare deck that largely plays itself unless you have inhuman reflexes, but that doesn't matter that much anyway since the ultra-high difficulty options (full looping, max Hell Pass, etc) are strictly the province of masochists anyway This is not true. Well, it's true of looping, but looping is a silly bonus round that no one takes seriously. From what I have seen, most good players build flexible, "good stuff" decks with only light synergy at high levels. Certainly this is how I play. These decks take advantage of shield spells, which are very strong in the base game, and allow the player to make more mistakes than they would with a small deck. They're also more consistent to build. What is true is that deckbuilding is very much a secondary skill for success, and it's not nearly as important as it is in the turn-based deckbuilders like Slay the Spire. A good player will do much better with a bad deck than a bad player will with a good deck. The deckbuilding mechanic functions mostly as a way for players to get to cast spells they like, and to keep fights mechanically interesting by asking the player to mix up their positioning to be able to use different attacks effectively. I wouldn't recommend the game to a player who is mostly interested in putting together strong combo decks.
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Aug 17, 2022 20:21
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I'm pretty sure we're saying the same thing. I was specifically describing looping (and max Hell Pass, which is really brutal in its own right even though it technically preserves the core run's pacing). Everywhere else, there's room for moment-to-moment decisions, and part of building a deck is deciding how much time and attention you can afford to dedicate to weighing and making those decisions. That margin of error gets narrower as you progress, but, as you pointed out, you can widen it again by putting some good shield options into your deck. The core dynamic is really good, even if it takes a while to click for some players. It's just the goofy optional bragging-rights challenges that force you into optimization hell, simply because they require reflexes and processing speed that most humans just do not have 
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Aug 17, 2022 20:30
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Angry Diplomat posted:I'm pretty sure we're saying the same thing. I was specifically describing looping (and max Hell Pass, which is really brutal in its own right even though it technically preserves the core run's pacing). Everywhere else, there's room for moment-to-moment decisions, and part of building a deck is deciding how much time and attention you can afford to dedicate to weighing and making those decisions. That margin of error gets narrower as you progress, but, as you pointed out, you can widen it again by putting some good shield options into your deck. Oh, yeah, you may be right. Only a few can live up to how great I am  My only objection is that I think most people can get really good at a game if they really want to. It's not a matter of talent or born reflexes. I think most people would be able to clear the higher difficulty levels fairly regularly (that is, at least 25% or 35% of the time) if they put 50 hours into the game. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with choosing not to do this, but there's something very satisfying about becoming an expert at a game.
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Aug 17, 2022 21:01
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Jack Trades posted:Anyone played Across the Obelisk? I played it a while ago, I haven't personally played the multiplayer mode but I have a friend who has, and from what I understand the co-op is mechanically identical to the single player with the only difference being that the characters are split up among the players. If that's what you're looking for, it's a pretty reasonable deckbuilder that I sunk, uh, let's see, 43 hours into, and I remember it being fun but in a vague nondescript way. I did really like the world map, though, which is mostly fixed, so once you'd been through it a few times you could actually plan out your route pretty well. e: actually thinking about it I think the way the world map worked was my favorite part. It has the usual forwards-only progression that these games tend to have and the contents of a bunch of the nodes are random, but the layout is always the same and there are fixed quest/event nodes that give you quests or known rewards which lets you have some certainty in your build. I think higher level gameplay mostly focused around stacking up hilariously high numbers of status effects on yourself or your enemy, but I never got past the first few ascensions before I put it down. MuffiTuffiWuffi fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 22:23
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The irony is the Flow, in a sense, for Gordian Quest's StS'ish mode probably works better if you choose the ironically metaprogression enhancing Solo Mode option instead of a merry adventure to the optimization weeds with a full party.
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Aug 17, 2022 22:26
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Picked Rift Wizard back up after many moons and 100%ing the achievements and I've forgotten most of my bullshit
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Aug 17, 2022 22:46
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Megazver posted:Path of Champions, the free deckbuilder mode in Legends of Runeterra is really, really good. Wild that I didn't know this existed, I played a shitload of Runeterra for the first 8 or 9 months it was out, I'll have to check it out. I've been checking out Erannorth and, just, god drat. Yeah, this game loving rules so hard. So far I've had the most success by building characters around Seduction and Shadow Magic since Drain is good sustain and Seduction often doubles as enemy removal and ally creation. I've tried a few others and have found that if the deck doesn't have easy access to Defend or some method of healing my runs are usually, uh, quite short, so any tips on either early survival in that regard or building to deal with it would be cool. I really want to make a big fuckin' Minotaur Berserker work but between the lack of armor and self-stacking Vulnerable their DPS hasn't been able to make up for it.
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Aug 17, 2022 23:49
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I think the biggest weakness in Backpack Hero (at least relevant to Purse) is that it seems really hard to plan a build. Like I feel like I typically don't have enough slots to keep random poo poo to play around with, especially for things that need to be built around like cleavers, bows, and structures, especially when "Get Vorpal Sword, get as many things that give +dmg as possible" seems much easier to do! It's obviously still in EA, but I hope there're different starter sets/heroes to like, "seed" a build. Also, is there an end to the sandbox campaign of Erannorth? Is it basically just go until you die?
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Aug 18, 2022 00:42
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Can someone link to the Erannorth that they're talking about? As far as I can tell there is Chronicles and Reborn and the descriptions for each sound almost identical at first glance.
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Aug 18, 2022 01:01
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chronicles is the new game e: and the steam workshop also just has stuff reborn had but chronciles doesn't that you can add in Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 01:03
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GrandpaPants posted:Also, is there an end to the sandbox campaign of Erannorth? Is it basically just go until you die? There's are a few quests that end the game at the highest levels. Sab Sabbington posted:I've tried a few others and have found that if the deck doesn't have easy access to Defend or some method of healing my runs are usually, uh, quite short, so any tips on either early survival in that regard or building to deal with it would be cool. At the beginning, you want to make sure you can either Stun/Freeze to selectively CC highest threat targets while whittling down the mobs, something like Weakness to turn high threat into nerf bats, or Defend/heal to be reactive. Before you leave on your first quest, make sure to grab some stuff like bedrolls and feathers or whatever is available and cheapest from the consumables. If you can, sell some unused cards and buy yourself a defensive item, since equipment is drawn each turn you can reliably have X amount of Defend that you can try to get the incoming damage under. Later on, you can diversify and have different strategies to deal with the mob turn including just straight up murder before they get to go, but at the beginning you will not be able to kill them fast enough without crowd control or defense of some kind. Also, a little bit of damage is not a big deal, you can camp and recover pretty easily as long as you don't eat too much poo poo in one encounter, especially if you have one of the outdoorsy skills so you autosucceed at finding rations and wood. fake edit: by consumables I don't just mean healing stuff either. At the beginning your cards might be limiting factor more than AP, so pulling a wand out of your bag and blasting a near death fool means you don't take its damage next turn
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Aug 18, 2022 01:16
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wait a minute is this some kind of sequel to that titty card game with titties?
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Aug 18, 2022 01:27
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victrix posted:wait a minute In an alternate timeline where CD Projekt Red had financial trouble after Witcher and more into 'romance cards', that'd be Gwent. Or, looking on steam now, Furry Cyberfucker 2 LordSloth fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 01:38
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