(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Raskolnikov38 posted:are we really still picking over "i met someone who lost their husband at tiananmen square once" its a big place, lots of tourists. easy to get lost
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Aug 18, 2022 00:00
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eSports Chaebol posted:here's the thing: communists have to "justify the violence" or else communism is wrong, and in fact more violence that will kill millions is better than communism, and you're a monster if you disagree; whereas liberals can just tut-tut oh boy well i dont personally support violence and that was bad but we will do better in the future! i don't support raping children but it's totally okay to have monuments to a child rapist because his heart was in the right place! hmmm true
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Aug 18, 2022 00:01
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yeah, just keep talking about tiananmen while i go to bed now, goodnight
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Aug 18, 2022 00:06
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lollontee posted:oh yeah, please continue. i actually do want to know how people justify the violence to themselves as communists, supposedly necessarily and discriminately deployed the communist party of china, since i can't, nor do i see any reason to justify them the violence doesn’t need to be justified because any government in the world would’ve met those demonstrations with deadly force. once you’ve got people torching military vehicles and lynching security forces, you’ve crossed the line from a mere demonstration and into open rebellion. innocent people get killed in the crossfire and that’s a shame, but it is what it is. deserve’s got nothing to do with it. Antonymous is right about the CPC being more afraid of those pictures than the tank man, because that kind of deadly force can be romanticized as a symbol of rebellion. Chinese people demonstrate violently all the time, but they almost never cross that line and the CPC wants to keep it that way. Was it necessary to meet reactionary violence with state violence like they did? I dunno. the Sandinistas and Venezuela have proved that you can just outlast reactionary violence by hunkering down and not reacting in a way that can be propagandized. At the time in the late 80s though, I doubt anybody would’ve entertained that as an option. Gorbachev responded to reactionary agitation & violence by doing nothing, and the end result was multiple wars, ethnic cleansings, and the greatest humanitarian disaster of the 90s. I think westerners generally have a warped view about government use of deadly force because for a long time using "less than lethal" force to abuse the public has been the domain of rich countries. First world states and their clients will shell out tons of extra money for non-lethal munitions because they have a value which can't be propagandized. We can abuse people to within an inch of their lives and that's ok, but poorer countries who have to use the military to repress demonstrations are presented as uniquely evil for doing so. If you take away the option to use less-than-lethal violence, goverrnments wouldn't stop repressing dissent it would just be way more deadly. I think you can see that kind of dynamic developing with China. As China becomes wealthier and more capable, so does their ability to dispense socially acceptable violence, which is what we really witnessed during the Hong Kong demonstrations. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 00:19 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 00:11
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no joke after 1989 China invested a lot in less lethal tactics, munitions and riot control. they didn't have rubber bullets in 1989 but they did have tear gas is what I remember. they didn't want to do it again
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Aug 18, 2022 00:21
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I guess this is whataboutism but If you are born black and male in America there is a 1/1000 chance you will be killed at the hands of the police. For all men the odds are 1/2000. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1821204116 If you just do shootings, over 1000 people are shot&killed each year by police https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ In china, beat cops don't have guns...
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Aug 18, 2022 00:27
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Dude Overton wi dow yall.
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Aug 18, 2022 00:36
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tbh i'm still surprised that the US hasn't just switched back to lethal ammunition, I honestly don't think people would bat an eye if the riot police would open fire into a BLM march or whatever
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Aug 18, 2022 00:42
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Antonymous posted:I guess this is whataboutism but I think it's a pretty clear demonstration of where our respective governments' interests lay and what kind of people have influence over them. The CPC has to be more accountable to the public, and therefore can't dispense deadly violence with impunity the way the US government can. We use less than lethal violence as a kind of kayfabe for the media, while organizers are "quietly" murdered sight unseen in "gang related incidents," and beat cops are trained to be always ready to kill anyone at a moment's notice. Grapplejack posted:tbh i'm still surprised that the US hasn't just switched back to lethal ammunition, I honestly don't think people would bat an eye if the riot police would open fire into a BLM march or whatever the tradeoff there is that if you kill a lot of people in public then you could stoke an even bigger uprising that you may not be able to control. The US government can kill as many MLKs as they want to, but the last thing it wants is another Holy Week Uprising. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 00:47 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 00:45
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Here's a nice picture of Xi smiling more warmly than one of his usual three expressions. https://twitter.com/nise_yoshimi/status/1559845869234442245
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Aug 18, 2022 01:02
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this is a great post thanks
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Aug 18, 2022 01:06
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Aug 18, 2022 01:08
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everyones talking about tiananmen but what about tiananwomen
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Aug 18, 2022 01:12
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everyone is talking about the rape of Nanjing but what about the rape of Nujing
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Aug 18, 2022 01:17
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Aug 18, 2022 01:19
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A sitcom about an activist and his son that has to move in with his brother in Beijing as they navigate through the changes of the 80s Two and a Half Tiananmen
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Aug 18, 2022 01:44
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https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1560067137728806912?s=20&t=sTo3mDnwS1XwnZjufpYZ9w
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Aug 18, 2022 02:04
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Awesome. Here's hoping the next apocalypse scare is more cinematic.
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Aug 18, 2022 02:37
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How long until the Democrats start calling Covid the China Virus?
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Aug 18, 2022 02:44
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Antonymous posted:I guess this is whataboutism but but do they get qualified immunity?
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Aug 18, 2022 02:49
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1559530185686675457?s=20&t=kP4rVSnH1TckrDqvmrWTew I know Im late, but 
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Aug 18, 2022 03:11
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unwantedplatypus posted:Somebody once defended the idea that false rape accusations are common to me by saying their dad had two allegations against them. I informed them that could be because their father raped those women. As expected they got very upset. This type of “You wouldn’t dare question my anecdote!” argumentation is common. What are you supposed to do other than ignore the emotional appeal? this owns
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Aug 18, 2022 03:26
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Telling my friends their dads are rapists for internet points.
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Aug 18, 2022 03:45
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lol oh yeah i remember i ate a week long probe in d&d partly because someone said they knew a uyghur whose couldn't contact his wife and kids because they were in a xinjiang camp and my response was that a dude being ghosted by his wife and kids might have other explanations and it wasn't really enough to prove the existence of camps
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Aug 18, 2022 03:55
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crepeface posted:lol oh yeah i remember i ate a week long probe in d&d partly because someone said they knew a uyghur whose couldn't contact his wife and kids because they were in a xinjiang camp and my response was that a dude being ghosted by his wife and kids might have other explanations and it wasn't really enough to prove the existence of camps at least 1 person owned in this situation, possibly several. bom 👍
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Aug 18, 2022 03:57
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Tankbuster posted:Telling my friends their dads are rapists for internet points. It was years ago. The conversation veered to that topic when I was expressing my frustration at recent experience demonstrating how it’s difficult to have a conversation about sexual assault without someone derailing the conversation by bringing up false accusations. unwantedplatypus has issued a correction as of 04:28 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 04:24
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crepeface posted:lol oh yeah i remember i ate a week long probe in d&d partly because someone said they knew a uyghur whose couldn't contact his wife and kids because they were in a xinjiang camp and my response was that a dude being ghosted by his wife and kids might have other explanations and it wasn't really enough to prove the existence of camps nah m8, dont you know that when it comes to china one must assume the worst possible outcome for any given scenario. smdh
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Aug 18, 2022 04:27
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KirbyKhan posted:It makes me lol knowing how many Hong Kong protest gear checklists there were floating around coolzone blm adjacent spots. It was like realizing the the taco bell and pizza hut have the same plastic silverware because both brands are owned by Yum. I'm at the protest march I'm at the COINTELPRO
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Aug 18, 2022 04:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:The "ghost cities" poo poo is one of the worst because it's just a straight reframing of practical planning into Thing Bad. yeah this particular point i have been keying on since 2014 or so when I was like "so uh, building houses in advance is bad? explain to me pls" and it was always some hamfisted potemkin village metaphor or outright perfidious orientals with their tricks poo poo none of that really explained why preplanning was bad to me, and around then i started to get what the point of it was
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Aug 18, 2022 04:55
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during the Tiananmen Massacre day, a poster spotted me rolling my eyes.
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Aug 18, 2022 05:04
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HiroProtagonist posted:yeah this particular point i have been keying on since 2014 or so when I was like "so uh, building houses in advance is bad? explain to me pls" and it was always some hamfisted potemkin village metaphor or outright perfidious orientals with their tricks poo poo ...but it's a subway station to NOWHERE, dude!!!
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Aug 18, 2022 05:07
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indigi posted:...but it's a subway station to NOWHERE, dude!!! Warriors... come out to PLAaay
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Aug 18, 2022 05:08
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crepeface posted:lol oh yeah i remember i ate a week long probe in d&d partly because someone said they knew a uyghur whose couldn't contact his wife and kids because they were in a xinjiang camp and my response was that a dude being ghosted by his wife and kids might have other explanations and it wasn't really enough to prove the existence of camps lol hell yeah
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Aug 18, 2022 05:13
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HiroProtagonist posted:yeah this particular point i have been keying on since 2014 or so when I was like "so uh, building houses in advance is bad? explain to me pls" and it was always some hamfisted potemkin village metaphor or outright perfidious orientals with their tricks poo poo shows how inefficient communism / chinese planning is. probably because no one owns property. youre supposed to have not enough housing so prices go up, enriching the property owning class. without that incentive no one lives in homes. "Accumulation through dispossession"
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Aug 18, 2022 05:45
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*puts hand to ear* all of them are occupied? oh I see This shows how china is destroying its own countryside and local cultures,
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Aug 18, 2022 05:47
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Would planetary unification under a "global NATO" really be so bad? There's a few holdout countries whose backs, so to speak, need to be broken. Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea and Cuba - I'm looking at you guys, among others. The world would be at peace, and if there really is a United Federation of Planets out there waiting for unification before first contact, we might see space travel within our lifetime!
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Aug 18, 2022 05:55
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mila kunis posted:Would planetary unification under a "global NATO" really be so bad? There's a few holdout countries whose backs, so to speak, need to be broken. Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea and Cuba - I'm looking at you guys, among others. The world would be at peace, and if there really is a United Federation of Planets out there waiting for unification before first contact, we might see space travel within our lifetime! imo yugoslavia iraq libya and afghanistan would say otherwise
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Aug 18, 2022 06:06
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mila kunis posted:Would planetary unification under a "global NATO" really be so bad? There's a few holdout countries whose backs, so to speak, need to be broken. Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea and Cuba - I'm looking at you guys, among others. The world would be at peace, and if there really is a United Federation of Planets out there waiting for unification before first contact, we might see space travel within our lifetime! wrong account, raenir
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Aug 18, 2022 06:50
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DiscountDildos posted:The HK stuff and the way US media covered and politicians talked about it was a mindfuck when I found out that actually the HK cops hadn't killed anybody, despite all the noise about the BRUTAL, INHUMANE CRACKDOWN. I remember one day there was a post at the top of reddit of some graffiti in HK that said (in English, of course): "who can we call when the cops are the killers?" To add two cents on the photo and the bolded part of the quote: I think there was one person shot by the police, don't think he died. It was a pretty typical police shooting like you'd see in the US where the cop says "Good shoot I was going to imminently die" even though the video doesn't tell that story. There was also at least one person who lost their eye, which is why LiPig and other protest mascots had eye patches for a minute there. Police were generally using the full playbook of non lethal force, though. Water cannons, beanbag / rubber bullets in more violent confrontations, and pretty much guaranteed tear gas at any demonstration of >100 folks (including hitting journalists, though oftentimes the journos were posted up on flyways / elevated pavement above the crowds). However, protestors - at least within the groups I was around - did circulate stories about police murdering people. A young girl went missing during the protests and I believe was found in the harbor, and people pointed to the police doing this (with a lot of insinuations of sexual assault). Someone fell off a parking garage after police chased them into it. Then there were the unsubstantiated, pure rumor about bodies mysteriously dropping off buildings and dismembered corpses and blacked out train cars taking protestors to secret prison sites. I believe some or all of these circulated through Reddit, as well, because there were a ton of HK Reddit commenters who were less than reliable. Having been in HK through the protests and actually engaging in them at various points (kind of became disillusioned when the "President Trump save us!" and anti-Chinese parts of the protest ramped up), it was definitely a scary situation and probably for many protestors the first time they'd seen the police deployed like this - 2014 saw police and tear gas and such but it wasn't at militarized / riot gear filled. I think this amplified a lot of people's perception of the violence and probably led to the amplified message of "cops are murderers" and stuff (HK protests also did some cribbing of slogans from early BLM / Ferguson protests). There was also some cargo culting of Tiananmen stuff - like the Liberty/Democracy goddess sculpture that was dragged around Tamar park and eventually up Lion Rock. That all said, even in the midst of it, it was really hard to figure out what was real and what was fake. Everyone talked about an underground organized resistance complete with like protestor hospitals so the police couldn't snatch you out of the wards, and there were visible protest medics and supply lines bringing stuff to the early occupation sites. The myths got amplified on Reddit and are what lives on, and I bet if you asked the average redditor or still gungho HK protestor they'd have different views on the amount of deaths vs what was actually recorded. Definitely see the same stuff in Ukraine now, where there's verifiably XYZ things happening / deaths recorded, but then there's a bunch of stuff that seems sketchy and isn't verified but quickly gets solidified into the history of the event (Snake Island)
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Aug 18, 2022 06:50
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mila kunis posted:Would planetary unification under a "global NATO" really be so bad? There's a few holdout countries whose backs, so to speak, need to be broken. Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea and Cuba - I'm looking at you guys, among others. The world would be at peace, and if there really is a United Federation of Planets out there waiting for unification before first contact, we might see space travel within our lifetime! I hope whoever wrote this has the thing they love most in the world destroyed in front of them
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Aug 18, 2022 06:59
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