|
It looks like a turd. https://twitter.com/newscientist/status/1509599345255100417
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 20:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 17:09 |
|
|
Star Man posted:It looks like a turd. Eat poo poo and... live?!
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 20:30
|
|
|
Elias_Maluco posted:Its so bad I keep thinking what is the secret plan with this thing? I always thought it was Zuck's obsession, and the people who actually manage Facebook encouraged him to go off and play with his dumb toy so they can make decisions without him.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 20:58
|
|
|
The thing that repeatedly amazes me about VR is that, of the numerous completely awesome things you could do with it before you even touch the horny, most companies in the space are doing none of them. Just off the top of my head: Paragliding/rocket suit Pilotwings-style casual flight sim Pokemon Snap, except you're actually on a full rear end safari Spiritual successor to Everblue/Endless Ocean (SCUBA diving "sim") Roller Coaster Tycoon, but you can ride the rides in VR (frankly it's nothing short of a crime that no one's done this) Not "let's simulate a novel setting for a meeting u guys!!!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 21:35
|
|
|
PT6A posted:The thing that repeatedly amazes me about VR is that, of the numerous completely awesome things you could do with it before you even touch the horny, most companies in the space are doing none of them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 21:48
|
|
|
Vegetable posted:Most of what you’re describing is extremely niche and has no mass market appeal. Virtual meetings on the other hand at least attempts to solve a real and painful problem that is global and growing. Not to say VR meetings are a good idea, but there’s a very clear reason why things are being prioritized in the way they are. I've been out of the workforce awhile, but last I was there, the speed of light still meant that you had noticeable, distracting lag on cross-ocean calls. All the FMV in the world can't help with that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 22:09
|
|
|
PT6A posted:The thing that repeatedly amazes me about VR is that, of the numerous completely awesome things you could do with it before you even touch the horny, most companies in the space are doing none of them. Paragliding / Rocket Suit: Rush SCUBA diving: FreeDiver: Triton Down, Ocean Rift, Subnautica Roller Coaster Tycoon but you can ride the rides in VR: No Limits 2 There's not a shortage of VR content IMO. Instead I think the three reasons VR has remained niche are that "affordable" headsets (like the Quest 2) aren't comfortable for long periods of time without significant extra purchases/mods (so only enthusiasts keep using it long term), a reasonable proportion of people find it uncomfortable not being able to see always their surroundings, especially when other people are around, and using a VR headset prevents you from casually using your phone every couple of minutes, which causes people to stop using the headset pretty quickly once the novelty has worn off. All of these are solvable problems, but we're at least a few hardware generations away and even then there's a reasonable chance for most people it ends up being a novelty. Whenever I can be bothered to set it up I enjoy working with 4 monitors in VR, but I only ever make it an hour or so before having a computer strapped to my face becomes uncomfortable enough to stop. VideoGameVet posted:Yeah, I’ve been in the video game industry since the dawn of history (my first published game shipped on cassette tape) and I’m amazed at the lack of truly wonderful stuff (ok, Beat Saber is decent). Pavlov, Onward, Wander, Youtube. It's not the content, it's the lack of users because of the deficiencies in current gen hardware and the generally weird nature of VR that (some) people just find uncomfortable. blunt fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Aug 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 22:10
|
|
|
PT6A posted:The thing that repeatedly amazes me about VR is that, of the numerous completely awesome things you could do with it before you even touch the horny, most companies in the space are doing none of them. Yeah, I’ve been in the video game industry since the dawn of history (my first published game shipped on cassette tape) and I’m amazed at the lack of truly wonderful stuff (ok, Beat Saber is decent). Besides what you mentioned, why isn’t there a decent Counterstrike like game? How about letting me travel to actual real locations that have 360º cameras so I can see the sunset on Maui or an animal preserve in Africa in real time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 22:16
|
|
|
VideoGameVet posted:Yeah, I’ve been in the video game industry since the dawn of history (my first published game shipped on cassette tape) and I’m amazed at the lack of truly wonderful stuff (ok, Beat Saber is decent). I bought my headset pretty much exclusively for flight simulation, and I have to say it's pretty much the definition of "truly wonderful VR experience." It was, if anything, extremely undersold as to how great it actually is. And I think that's the use-case for VR more generally: experiences that are expensive or difficult or dangerous or even outright impossible in real life. And I honestly don't think it has to be "gamified" per se. I'm definitely going to check out No Limits 2 and Ocean Rift, those look like they'd be really fun to chill with.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 22:33
|
|
|
I heard Half Life Alyx is pretty good too
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 23:09
|
|
|
VideoGameVet posted:Yeah, I’ve been in the video game industry since the dawn of history (my first published game shipped on cassette tape) and I’m amazed at the lack of truly wonderful stuff (ok, Beat Saber is decent). Ring would make a poo poo ton of money, allowing people to "walk around" their property remotely in VR. Or maybe for security guards that have a wide area to cover can sit back and use the headset until they see something and have to call for a coworker to check things out in person.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 23:15
|
|
|
Solkanar512 posted:Ring would make a poo poo ton of money, allowing people to "walk around" their property remotely in VR. Or maybe for security guards that have a wide area to cover can sit back and use the headset until they see something and have to call for a coworker to check things out in person. Ummm, the user interface is not the expensive part of making this realistic.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 23:22
|
|
|
Solkanar512 posted:Ring would make a poo poo ton of money, allowing people to "walk around" their property remotely in VR. Or maybe for security guards that have a wide area to cover can sit back and use the headset until they see something and have to call for a coworker to check things out in person. Sounds like someone needs to find a way to pipe an Amazon Astro's camera into VR. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8pWOu4IRk
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 23:27
|
|
|
The thing all these proposals have in common (at least the non-game ones) is that they solve an actual problem, which so far Meta emphatically does not. Yes, the tech isn't all there yet, but it's worth working towards that rather than "imagine a meeting room, but in VR. and possibly in a poorly-render version of a whimsical location!!!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 23:33
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Eat poo poo and... live?! New thread title if ever i saw one
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 01:37
|
|
|
Solkanar512 posted:This would be loving sweet actually, and use less power than a bunch of monitors. You're limited by the resolution of your VR device. Your entire field of vision had to fit into that, meaning each virtual monitor will have dogshit resolution.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 01:56
|
|
|
Yeah, I played around with Virtual Desktop or whatever that was called, I think it was a free app with the Rift? It was really bad. If they make it "as high-res as your eyes but also somehow comfortable to have on for hours a day", then maybe.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 02:12
|
|
|
Pretty much the only VR thing I've seen worth a drat is Blade & Sorcery. VR sets are still a pain to set up correctly (third party apps just to get wireless, are you kidding me), have pretty severe limitations based on your playspace (do you have a room in your house to devote to this? no? gently caress you), and most of the stuff is "like a PC game, but really bad."
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 02:36
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Yeah, I played around with Virtual Desktop or whatever that was called, I think it was a free app with the Rift? It was really bad. If they make it "as high-res as your eyes but also somehow comfortable to have on for hours a day", then maybe. Isn't that going to be even worse for your eyes than sitting in front of monitors? You go from very limited focal distance changes to no focal distance change.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 12:03
|
|
|
VideoGameVet posted:Besides what you mentioned, why isn’t there a decent Counterstrike like game? To be fair there hasn't been a decent Counterstrike like game since 1.6, maybe source.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 14:39
|
|
|
Honestly VR seems like another one of those things that's a solution in search of a problem to solve. Like, even if we take it at face value that the Metaverse stuff will take off and make billions of dollars... what is it for? I think it has to be the thing of execs hyping each other up over the tech assuming all their workers are dying to get their hands on an Oculus and go to chat to Derek from HR Mii-to-Mii instead of this rubbish Zoom nonsense. I'd only ever consider using like a virtual desk + monitors if I could do it through AR instead of VR because gently caress spending a workday depriving myself of actual vision, the primary sense I use to make sense of my immediate physical surroundings. When summer rolls around, it's a lovely pleasant day, get the windows open, oh nevermind I can't see poo poo because I've glued an opaque plastic box to my eyes so I can talk to you about this ticket. Can't wait to redecorate my home office and then spend 99% of the day in bullshit meetings in a VR chatroom with walls painted Focus Group Beige and decorated with a JPEG-artifacted version of the company logo, or logging into the meeting room to find that my manager has decided to cheer us all up by swapping the meeting room environment to a beach. Remote meetings are always going to be weirder than in-person since you can't read expressions as well or general body language, it's harder to interject if you have a relevant point, etc. VR meetings solve none of those problems and in fact remove the facial expressions you had previously. Beat Saber looks like it fuckin slaps tho.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 14:54
|
|
|
VR is like videophones. Tech has existed for a long time but was never used like sci-fi made it out to be. Eventually what this became is Zoom and Facetime. VR is probably going to look like something way different before most people give a poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 01:12
|
|
|
ozmunkeh posted:To be fair there hasn't been a decent Counterstrike like game since 1.6, maybe source. Sadly Source Mac never updated to 64bit, so I'm stuck with G.O., which is ok.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 05:27
|
|
|
Owling Howl posted:Sounds a lot like Google glass - adding the complication of another layer of technology to do things that are already simple and easy to do. "Put a screen on your face so you don't have to look at your pocket-screen." Glass at least claimed to be better as a hands-free solution but Meta seems to offer nothing apart from being more technology. I actually got to play with Glass a couple times, a friend of mine for selected to be a test user. It was very neat IMO and for some use cases extremely good, and I'll be pretty excited about trying a new version if that actually shows up. It's not a phone replacement but it's not supposed to be either. PT6A posted:The thing that repeatedly amazes me about VR is that, of the numerous completely awesome things you could do with it before you even touch the horny, most companies in the space are doing none of them. Someone posted links to games that do this, but something that takes a lot of time to get over, if you even can, is the nausea caused by the world moving while your inner ear is insisting that you're stationary, and the disconnect between the two.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 08:10
|
|
|
PT6A posted:I bought my headset pretty much exclusively for flight simulation, and I have to say it's pretty much the definition of "truly wonderful VR experience." It was, if anything, extremely undersold as to how great it actually is. And I think that's the use-case for VR more generally: experiences that are expensive or difficult or dangerous or even outright impossible in real life. And I honestly don't think it has to be "gamified" per se. Is there any kind of space flight simulator? KSP VR?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 08:18
|
|
|
Elite Dangerous is said to be incredible in VR, but it's far from ksp
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 08:21
|
|
|
Anyone who doesn't think they'll own a pair of VR/AR glasses in ~10 years is a dumbass. The metaverse is stupid, Meta is flailing about, but if one is unable to see how glasses that can create a convincing visual representation of anything you want could be useful then they're lacking even basic foresight. It's not going to be boxy low res face bricks forever, it's like looking at the C64 in it's time and saying "lmao computers will always suck".
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 08:24
|
|
|
VR is in its third decade of being a gimmick. I'm not holding my breath.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 08:28
|
|
|
Unlike the 90s and 00s where VR hardware progress was stagnant there has been considerable improvements to resolution, FOV, optics and tracking over the last decade. There was someone earlier talking about how the Rift, a PC only headset released in 2016 is useless for as a monitor replacement. The Quest 2, which is standalone, offers 4x more pixels per inch and can do a readable virtual 1080p display (at IMAX size, admittedly). Still a face brick, but then the next generation of headsets greatly reduce the depth of the optics array. Everything is a gimmick until it passes a vague, unknowable threshold when enough of the issues holding it back get fixed. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Aug 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 08:37
|
|
|
SCheeseman posted:Anyone who doesn't think they'll own a pair of VR/AR glasses in ~10 years is a dumbass. The metaverse is stupid, Meta is flailing about, but if one is unable to see how glasses that can create a convincing visual representation of anything you want could be useful then they're lacking even basic foresight. It's not going to be boxy low res face bricks forever, it's like looking at the C64 in it's time and saying "lmao computers will always suck". I've been hearing this for 30 years now. You might be right, eventually. But 10 years is too soon, in 10 years it's still gonna be a boxy thing you put on your head and for that reason alone still not become mainstream.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 08:37
|
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:I've been hearing this for 30 years now. Longer term it's holographics, though there's enough challenges there that 10 years seems reasonable. At that point the hardware is capable of being Oakley sized.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 08:41
|
|
|
I honestly can't see VR not being a gimmick until they figure out true full body life like haptic feedback. Then just watch the porn companies get on-board and drive that technology
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 08:42
|
|
|
Games are a separate thing. I like the games with simulated bodies, which typically emulate physical forces by displacing where your virtual body is from your actual body, though games draw different lines as to how far they take it with Alyx on one side of the spectrum and Boneworks on the other. There's also games that aren't strictly trying to be physically immersive but are improved simply by having 6DOF controls, like minigolf, table tennis, 3d jigsaws, that sort of thing. Outside of games the more interesting aspect of VR/AR for me is that it spurs obsolescence of the concept of a fixed size screen or display, something that has some big implications for mobile use in particular.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 08:58
|
|
|
John Carmack said he thinks Beat Sabre is so successful because your movements are supposed to just cut through things in game. A lot of the failure of VR is the lack of being able to interact with objects convincingly.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 09:26
|
|
|
Yeah, there's a lot of things that need to come into place for VR to really take off, both with hardware and with design. The potential is there, and you can see the iterative process, but it's definitely still iterating.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 09:51
|
|
|
SCheeseman posted:Anyone who doesn't think they'll own a pair of VR/AR glasses in ~10 years is a dumbass. I worked with a PhD student once who set up an experiment where people would sit at a desk and halfway across the table would be a giant high definition display that showed the other half of the table, which was actually an identical table in a different room. So, there would be a person sitting across the table from the subject, virtually. Turns out that even in such a basic setup the researchers found that, given decent enough fidelity, people would do things like unconsciously keep their legs on "their" side of the table so as not to accidentally kick the other person. If VR can improve on this feeling of mutual presence it's going to be huge. It doesn't matter if it looks basic: if you can feel you are somewhere together with other people just by wearing a headset VR will be a true game changer for a lot of people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 10:02
|
|
|
Honestly I don’t think I’ll ever be down with using VR regularly. AR is a very different matter, but I genuinely have a massive aversion to just obstructing my own vision of my surroundings which is unavoidable in VR. I like to be able to look around, gaze out of the window, look at what my cats are doing, look over and see my wife’s reaction to a major scene in a thing we’re watching, see my houseplants, even random poo poo like being able to see post-it reminders I’ve stuck on the wall to prompt me to do something. Probably a personal hangup honestly but it’s basically a dealbreaker for me. AR glasses has a whole bunch of interesting applications for things like navigation, live translation, better contextual reminders based on stuff you look at, as well as also being usable for virtual screens and so on. You could even have zoom/FaceTime poo poo overlaid in your periphery while doing other stuff. I’m sure in time AR glasses will become the default smart device instead of a handheld phone, and I’m quite okay with that as an already-glasses-wearer but aside from immersive entertainment content I can’t see any real reason to use VR over AR. Even when it comes to games and things though, it feels like there’s a lot of contrived poo poo going into how you approach the player moving around and I can’t see there ever being a satisfying solution to that. You’re fully immersed visually and your body is the controller… for not quite everything. Cockpit based games or things like Beat Saber sure, but having to click on hot-zones and be teleported there as a form of movement or still having to use analog sticks is pretty disappointing, and the weird omni treadmill things are yet another huge price/space barrier to making VR a commonplace thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 10:27
|
|
|
One of the mistakes I think Meta is making is going on and on about meetings as the business use. Technology adoption often comes from the workers, not the managers, and I can't even convince most of my team to put on their webcams. How am I going to convince them to strap on a headset for a 30 minute meeting (not that I want to).SCheeseman posted:Outside of games the more interesting aspect of VR/AR for me is that it spurs obsolescence of the concept of a fixed size screen or display, something that has some big implications for mobile use in particular. Yeah the Thinkreality A3 is a cool idea. If I was bought one Id maybe use it when remote as I hate using a single display. At home though? No as I have the space and a virtual monitor is never gonna beat a real one for resolution/refresh-rate/colour/price. And I would never buy one personally at that price, need to be 80-90% cheaper than it currently is. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Aug 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 10:27
|
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:No as I have the space and a virtual monitor is never gonna beat a real one for resolution/refresh-rate/colour/price. Never is a strong word, there's no real basis for virtual monitors not being theoretically capable of matching and exceeding the performance of flat panels. If anything the long term view is that they'll end up blowing away flat panels in terms of efficiency as flat panel displays throw out a lot of light isn't directed at anyone's eyeballs, foveated rendering is a lot easier to achieve with a HMD and has the potential to decrease graphics compute loads by an order of magnitude, pixel density is always increasing and will eventually hit the same plateau as flat panels are currently scraping against, high refresh rate in AR/VR is arguably more essential than it is on flat screens. Surprise T Rex posted:Honestly I don’t think I’ll ever be down with using VR regularly. AR is a very different matter, but I genuinely have a massive aversion to just obstructing my own vision of my surroundings which is unavoidable in VR. I like to be able to look around, gaze out of the window, look at what my cats are doing, look over and see my wife’s reaction to a major scene in a thing we’re watching, see my houseplants, even random poo poo like being able to see post-it reminders I’ve stuck on the wall to prompt me to do something. Probably a personal hangup honestly but it’s basically a dealbreaker for me. The Quest 2 has a feature where you tap the headset twice and it enables passthrough, which lets you do most of these things (albeit in a noisy, low res greyscale way so those post its are gonna be pretty hard to read). That said the context of the use of VR games is a bit different, more akin to playing a board game or a theme park ride, you're not doing a lot of post-it reading while doing either of those. Longer term: virtual post-its. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Aug 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 11:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 17:09 |
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:One of the mistakes I think Meta is making is going on and on about meetings as the business use. Technology adoption often comes from the workers, not the managers, and I can't even convince most of my team to put on their webcams. How am I going to convince them to strap on a headset for a 30 minute meeting (not that I want to). I got bad news for you about who gets to make literally all the decisions about these things.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 11:20
|
|