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Relevant to the whole discussion. https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/476E3g/oljekraftverket-i-karlshamn-ar-igang-sedan-en-vecka?pinnedEntry=939193
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Aug 16, 2022 11:59
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Cardiac posted:Relevant to the whole discussion. LOL at the hellworld where M goes "it's your fault for dismantling the nuclear power plants" and S replying "nu-hu, they only burn 70 QBM of oil per hour because it turns a profit". gently caress YOU!!!!
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Aug 16, 2022 12:34
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Sweden is so insanely neoliberal to my perspective, it's like the USA of the nordic countries. I am just wondering, do swedes feel it too? Or do they still think Sweden is this left wing social democratic country like the 70s and 80s?
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Aug 16, 2022 13:04
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His Divine Shadow posted:Sweden is so insanely neoliberal to my perspective, it's like the USA of the nordic countries. I am just wondering, do swedes feel it too? Or do they still think Sweden is this left wing social democratic country like the 70s and 80s? DF is cool with the welfare state for 'real Danes' AFAIK. My intro to Modern Danish Politics was finding a Stram Kurs leaflet jammed under my car windshield wiper here in Vestamager. Even a Danish-illiterate Canuck from Toronto could get the message where every picture was a male Muslim accused of rape. I felt slimy just holding it.
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Aug 16, 2022 13:09
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thotsky posted:Who is cleaning them? Sounds like a scam. My relatives, I'd assume. From what they described it sounded like an agreement that was fairly beneficial to them, it's just been some weeks and the specifics have slipped my mind.
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Aug 16, 2022 13:41
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His Divine Shadow posted:Sweden is so insanely neoliberal to my perspective, it's like the USA of the nordic countries. I am just wondering, do swedes feel it too? Or do they still think Sweden is this left wing social democratic country like the 70s and 80s? Sweden is full of people still mentally living with the idea of Sweden in 1965. You will literally hear people talking about "the world's highest tax rates" and "the communist S party" daily, while oblivious to the country having a pretty mediocre at best Gini %, huge tax loopholes for the middle and upper class and a privatized educational market that is extreme compared to the rest of the world. I have at least five (M-voting) colleagues who loves to claim that we're one S government away from being a Soviet state. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 13:50
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We just need to automatically rescind the voting rights for any Swede two refers to the socialdemokraterna as the "Socialists" in English.
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Aug 16, 2022 13:55
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I know the personal taxes in Norway are somewhat lower than in Denmark and Sweden, but I was pretty surprised moving here from the UK to end up paying a fair bit less (percentagewise) on a higher income. I guess the UK has the best of both worlds with high income tax and terrible public services?
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Aug 16, 2022 13:58
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big scary monsters posted:I know the personal taxes in Norway are somewhat lower than in Denmark and Sweden, but I was pretty surprised moving here from the UK to end up paying a fair bit less (percentagewise) on a higher income. I guess the UK has the best of both worlds with high income tax and terrible public services? There is also arbetsgivaravgiften which is an additional 30% of your salary that the company pays to the state. I don’t know if UK have this tax? So of your salary 30% or so (more if you are above certain thresholds) goes to your pocket and an additional 30% goes to the state. So out the total cost of an employee roughly 40-50% gets payed as tax.
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Aug 16, 2022 14:51
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UK employers also pay about 15% national insurance on your salary, I don't know whether they have any other taxes too.
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Aug 16, 2022 15:03
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big scary monsters posted:UK employers also pay about 15% national insurance on your salary, I don't know whether they have any other taxes too. https://www.oecd.org/tax/taxing-wages-20725124.htm
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Aug 16, 2022 15:19
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We've been over this before. For income levels around the national average, Swedish income tax rates (including employer social security contributions like arbetsgivaravgift) are completely unremarkable among OECD countries. Wage taxes are significantly higher in e.g. France, Germany and Italy. Old discussion from years ago ITT here; I haven't looked up the most recent numbers but I would be very surprised if they had changed significantly. Swedish taxes on capital and capital gains are also exceptionally low (see e.g. the popular ISK accounts on which capital is taxed at the staggering rate of less than 0.5%), and so are property taxes. The top marginal tax rate for wages is high on paper, but there's plenty of ways to get around it, and even then lots of people just get paid 80-100k/month in regular wages because it really doesn't matter that much to the employer at that point. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 18:14
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TheFluff posted:We've been over this before. For income levels around the national average, Swedish income tax rates (including employer social security contributions like arbetsgivaravgift) are completely unremarkable among OECD countries. Wage taxes are significantly higher in e.g. France, Germany and Italy. Old discussion from years ago ITT here; I haven't looked up the most recent numbers but I would be very surprised if they had changed significantly. While the total after taxation is similar, the difference is in the public perception. If you have salary tax of 15% on top of your salary and a 40% wage tax, the total taxation is similar to what it would be with 30% salary tax and 30% wage tax. But it looks different when you look at your wage and sees that 40% goes away in taxes, which makes 30% look much better. It is like a discussion I had with one of my siblings in UK, when they described how much they paid for daycare per month. I know how much my local daycare gets each year per kid from the commune and the total sums is roughly the same. Sometimes I would wish for better transparency in the tax system so that people would actually understand how much they get for their taxes. On the other hand, FYGM is probably going to be the norm.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:44
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Cardiac posted:While the total after taxation is similar, the difference is in the public perception. If you have salary tax of 15% on top of your salary and a 40% wage tax, the total taxation is similar to what it would be with 30% salary tax and 30% wage tax. What country isn't doing some form of payroll taxes that isn't some Persian Gulf Sun City?
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Aug 16, 2022 20:51
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McCloud posted:solutions that are workable? Make a deal now before Scandinavia and the EU becomes more desperate this winter as it becomes colder and economic conditions worsen. Less people will have a favorable view of the current energy & foreign policy this winter. The people who say that the EU shouldn't negotiate right now when the EU has a stronger position and Russia has a weaker position are effectively Russian 'useful idiots' that are working to improve the terms for Russia and promoting Russian interests.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:13
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ted hitler hunter posted:The obvious solution is to make a deal with Russia now before winter arrives. The obvious solution is to nationalize power production so that the profits from exporting our electricity (https://www.expressen.se/ekonomi/sverige-nu-europas-storsta-exportor-av-el/) goes back to the public. Then use that profit for aggressively expanding non-fossile power production in all of the country, not just the north.
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Aug 16, 2022 22:18
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His Divine Shadow posted:Sweden is so insanely neoliberal to my perspective, it's like the USA of the nordic countries. I am just wondering, do swedes feel it too? Or do they still think Sweden is this left wing social democratic country like the 70s and 80s? sweden has been deliberately targetted by american think tank money. there was a norwegian book about the rise of neoliberal think tanks called Korstoget Mot Velferdsstaten recently which documents a lot of this with the atlas network think tank flora etc. TheFluff posted:We've been over this before. For income levels around the national average, Swedish income tax rates (including employer social security contributions like arbetsgivaravgift) are completely unremarkable among OECD countries. Wage taxes are significantly higher in e.g. France, Germany and Italy. Old discussion from years ago ITT here; I haven't looked up the most recent numbers but I would be very surprised if they had changed significantly. the nordic model has always been about maintaining high profitability and redistributing wealth through centralised, well-disciplined union negotiations. tax levels have been relatively high, but not usually on stuff like corporate profits - mostly it's on personal wealth, inheritance, wages/employment and value-added taxes etc. back in the day-back-in-the-day there were extremely high upper tax brackets for certain kinds of income (of pomperipossa infamy), but *in general* social democrats have seen maintaining profitability as a policy goal with the aim of inducing investment, same as the policy of real-term wage increases and active employment policy. for a relatively quick overview on the nordic model, i have always liked rudolf meidner's essay on why it ended up failing in sweden: https://socialistregister.com/index.php/srv/article/view/5630/2528
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Aug 16, 2022 23:14
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Cardiac posted:While the total after taxation is similar, the difference is in the public perception. If you have salary tax of 15% on top of your salary and a 40% wage tax, the total taxation is similar to what it would be with 30% salary tax and 30% wage tax. this would end up with all sorts of tedious arguments about why should i, an honest working person, be paying for single mothers' subsidised living with 123kr per month or some such even if it was possible to do the accounting properly and efficiently
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Aug 16, 2022 23:16
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V. Illych L. posted:this would end up with all sorts of tedious arguments about why should i, an honest working person, be paying for single mothers' subsidised living with 123kr per month or some such even if it was possible to do the accounting properly and efficiently Which honestly is one reason why I think the current tax system is setup this way in Sweden, tragically. ted hitler hunter posted:The obvious solution is to make a deal with Russia now before winter arrives. Then again, we might come around to actually eating the rich.
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Aug 17, 2022 12:05
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8.42 DKK/kWh. Sounds sustainable. https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/de-danske-elpriser-rammer-rekordhoejt-niveau-kan-koste-en-gennemsnitsfamilie-15000
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Aug 17, 2022 22:14
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lilljonas posted:The obvious solution is to nationalize power production so that the profits from exporting our electricity (https://www.expressen.se/ekonomi/sverige-nu-europas-storsta-exportor-av-el/) goes back to the public. Then use that profit for aggressively expanding non-fossile power production in all of the country, not just the north. lol at the idea of S nationalizing anything, let alone power production. I mean, I absolutely agree with you that it's the preferable solution, but also the most unlikely. Would that even be allowed under EU law? V. Illych L. posted:sweden has been deliberately targetted by american think tank money. there was a norwegian book about the rise of neoliberal think tanks called Korstoget Mot Velferdsstaten recently which documents a lot of this with the atlas network think tank flora etc. loving Timbro och and Svenskt Näringsliv being the two most obvious examples of think tanks. Every time I see something from them it's the most lib poo poo imaginable
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Aug 18, 2022 04:25
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SplitSoul posted:8.42 DKK/kWh. Sounds sustainable. McCloud posted:lol at the idea of S nationalizing anything, let alone power production. I mean, I absolutely agree with you that it's the preferable solution, but also the most unlikely. Would that even be allowed under EU law?
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Aug 18, 2022 08:05
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well, the EU requires that nationalisation take the form of the state buying up assets at market value (i.e. normally stock price), so you cannot simply seize control of a strategic industry when it's valuable without incurring huge costs. right now, though, lots of power production is state-owned, but the market is structured in such a way as to prevent protectionist measures (e.g. according to a Commission guide, https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_5204 , you can impose price controls - but those price controls cannot apply selectively to the internal market). this is the way the EU likes to do these things, not by strictly banning stuff but by imposing a framework which makes it impractical to do. something similar can be seen in its rail policy; it doesn't strictly speaking *ban* state-owned railways, it just imposes a mode of organisation on the railways which takes away most advantages of having state-owned railway systems.
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Aug 18, 2022 10:22
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I wonder if the state could just tank the companies so their stock prices dropped. Some law changes or removal of special status or tax rebates, who knows. Then buy them out.
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Aug 18, 2022 10:26
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His Divine Shadow posted:I wonder if the state could just tank the companies so their stock prices dropped. Some law changes or removal of special status or tax rebates, who knows. Then buy them out. probably this would be considered market manipulation by some supervisory body and compensation would be issued to the previous owners, but i am not clear on which specific body would enforce this sort of thing. in EFTA countries it would be ESA, in full-on EU countries i don't know.
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Aug 18, 2022 10:52
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Apropos the energy price discussion, I just got an email from my electricity provider letting me know that the Norwegian government is increasing the price subsidy from 80% to 90% for areas where the mean price is over 70 øre/kWh. That's the south of Norway basically - I looked up the prices and Kristiansand currently has the highest with 263 øre/kWh unsubsidised, while my prices are still sitting at more than one hundred times less. The system seems bizarre to me. After having had how buying electricity works at an international level explained to me by a colleague who works in energy policy, if anything it seems even weirder.
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Aug 18, 2022 12:47
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I got an extra 400mm of insulation in my attic this week, for free, because we where supposed to have had it 8 years ago when the house was built. Never noticed until I finally went up there for another reason... Should help a lot. Looking at how much it was they probably gave us more than 400mm. At least we got it and didn't have to bitch and moan because it had been 8 years. Also a heat pump to replace the direct-electric oil radiator I use to keep my shop warm (12C).
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Aug 18, 2022 13:35
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big scary monsters posted:Kristiansand currently has the highest with 263 øre/kWh unsubsidised Help me god
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Aug 18, 2022 13:58
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Swedish election is having a normal one. https://twitter.com/SvPolMoment/status/1560327825458171904?t=qGP4cN-AKIIfHsaGKotxbA&s=19
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Aug 18, 2022 20:19
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Big LBJ energy, hashtag girlboss?
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Aug 18, 2022 20:21
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Think Pia will be hanging out with the WACL again? https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/seneste/ordfoerere-vil-rejse-til-taiwan-efter-folketingsvalget
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Aug 19, 2022 00:04
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MiddleOne posted:Swedish election is having a normal one. Equal parts funny and baffling. Meanwhile the finnish PM is getting flak for being out at parties Girlboss vs Party girl
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Aug 19, 2022 02:33
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Have we officially entered the stupid part of the election?
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Aug 19, 2022 04:50
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The Finnish PM thing reminds me of when Moxnes got flack for being too attractive.
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Aug 19, 2022 07:07
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Cardiac posted:Have we officially entered the stupid part of the election? I believe we never left
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Aug 19, 2022 07:40
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if you're PM you're only allowed to have fun in boring ways don'tchaknow
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Aug 19, 2022 09:48
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V. Illych L. posted:if you're PM you're only allowed to have fun in boring ways don'tchaknow But if you are too boring people will give you poo poo for it as well, calling you a charismatic black hole etc. This is done by both the left and the right, look at for example Ingvar Carlsson and Carl Bildt. It's a lose-lose situation since your political opponents will you attack you for either sin, either being boring or being not serious enough.
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Aug 19, 2022 10:06
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lilljonas posted:But if you are too boring people will give you poo poo for it as well, calling you a charismatic black hole etc. This is done by both the left and the right, look at for example Ingvar Carlsson and Carl Bildt. It's a lose-lose situation since your political opponents will you attack you for either sin, either being boring or being not serious enough. EBT gets a massive amount of flak in a similar way. Which takes focus from the relevant criticisms against her.
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Aug 19, 2022 11:56
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Cardiac posted:EBT gets a massive amount of flak in a similar way. Which takes focus from the relevant criticisms against her. What is this flak other than the crazy eyes?
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Aug 19, 2022 11:59
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Groda posted:What is this flak other than the crazy eyes? Obsession about her clothes, predominately from Aftonbladet.
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Aug 19, 2022 12:38
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