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It's a pretty damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation for sure, but I agree that if Pelgrane put out such a forceful statement of intent that it falls on them to actually stick to it or else the whole thing is just hollow.
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Aug 18, 2022 21:51
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Kai Tave posted:It's a pretty damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation for sure, but I agree that if Pelgrane put out such a forceful statement of intent that it falls on them to actually stick to it or else the whole thing is just hollow. Especially since 13th Age is the sort of thing where I'd expect the customer base for it to be significantly more well-informed than, say, your average 5E customer.
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Aug 18, 2022 22:22
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One D&D, One World of Darkness
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Aug 18, 2022 23:10
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Kor posted:To be fair, I am probably chicken little-ing a bit with how far I can see this going. But on the other hand this is Hasbro/WotC and this is the direction basically every content-producing business is going to (or has already gone to) regardless of how good of an idea it actually turns out to be in practice. Given how they've been dipping D&D into Magic: the Gathering, the One D&D thing is probably at least partially a realignment to get D&D caught up with Magic on the digital front and open up new "revenue streams" for it. The different Magic digital platforms have demonstrated you can make exponentially more money that way with functioning digital tools and an online storefront. Paper Magic has also endured and stuff like Secret Lairs demonstrates there's insane whale cash to be made there. D&D is even more dependent on physical accoutrements than Magic, so there's room to do a lot of similar Secret Lairs-esque prestige minis, dice sets, maps, and books on rotation. The digital tools let them port playtest rules in and "patch" a new 5.5e or 6e while spinning it as no big deal. Do a print run of the original rules and then periodically they can do a fresh prestige print when they want to integrate the errata into the core books or introductory box sets. It sucks and it's evidently motivated by turning D&D into an eternal live service game, and will probably lead to undercutting third parties like local game stores, but it makes sense because this whole stunt lets D&D build itself even more into an island unto itself away from other TTRPGs.
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Aug 18, 2022 23:50
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looks like some smart changes. the worlds #1 roleplaying game ... just levellled up
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Aug 19, 2022 00:03
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Leperflesh posted:I'm extremely skeptical that a roleplaying game could function exactly like a cloud software platform or a phone OS, but I wouldn't be shocked if Hasbro gave it a try. Players are supposed to care about characters and enemies and adventures, imagine if the VTT just worked and all you had to do was play, without giving thought to whether the monster math works or what would happen to your whole campaign if they merged STR and CON. (Of course this could lock you in to the equivalent of that OS's app store... a bonus, from Hasbro's perspective.) Yeah, this seems like it would be really hard to pull off to me with how RPGs are typically played. Like, already there's a pretty big disconnect between how most groups play RPGs and what's written in the rulebook. If the rulebook can change, that either means that it'll be asking a lot of casual players to pay attention to patch notes, or the gap will widen a bunch and different players will end with different rulesets in their heads. It's not like you open the PHB to the combat rules chapter every time a fight breaks out--pretty quickly you can just start running it from your memory. I could see this working with a hard turn towards VTTs with automated processes, though. That opens up its own cans of worms, and I'm not sure I'd be especially into that playstyle depending on how hands-on the automation is, but the design space for a hybrid digital/rpg seems like something that really ought to be explored more (and that could be potentially done way better by a studio with a big budget than by indie attempts). The projects I'm currently working on are both in that hybrid RPG/digital space--I think there's a lot of cool unexplored space around there.
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Aug 19, 2022 00:53
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Inspiration still capped at 1 and you still have feats like "add prof bonus to initiative" in the same pool as "craft items 20% faster" Never change guys 
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Aug 19, 2022 00:53
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Splicer posted:Inspiration still capped at 1 and you still have feats like "add prof bonus to initiative" in the same pool as "craft items 20% faster" uh, Alert also allows you to swap initiative with another player, it's a good feat, that actually helps the party now lol.
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Aug 19, 2022 02:18
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OtspIII posted:If the rulebook can change, that either means that it'll be asking a lot of casual players to pay attention to patch notes, or the gap will widen a bunch and different players will end with different rulesets in their heads. It's not like you open the PHB to the combat rules chapter every time a fight breaks out--pretty quickly you can just start running it from your memory. Phone and tablet apps seem pretty likely in the long run, where you can store character sheets and a quick reference toolkit that lets you search what the "stunned" condition means faster than flipping through a book would. If the rulebook changes, you can print out the errata notes. Or more realistically, they expect you to subscribe and get free patches right to your character sheet and you can print out a fresh copy of that if you use a paper one at a table. Eventually the first print run of books is outdated, sure, but that incentivizes newcomers to make sure to buy the newest Official Print Version with all the baked-in errata and maybe you even get a digital copy of the book for free on D&D Insider with every new purchase, so now you never have to worry about your books being outdated again. (In marketing spin talk.)
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Aug 19, 2022 02:29
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Splicer posted:Inspiration still capped at 1 and you still have feats like "add prof bonus to initiative" in the same pool as "craft items 20% faster" If you get more than one Inspiration you can give it to an ally however.
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Aug 19, 2022 02:36
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Roadie posted:I credit Michael Bay for helping me truly internalize this lesson. MSTK taught me this early. Also that you can absolutely roast the things you love without stopping loving them.
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Aug 19, 2022 03:22
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Warthur posted:Calling it "One D&D" is a great way to take the wind out of the sails of the 1E grogs. Just emphatically associate the number 1 with inclusive mechanics, a younger and more accepting target demographic, and streaming-friendly features. You're not even thinking about the OD&D abbreviation for the white box crowd.
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Aug 19, 2022 03:39
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would it be thread-appropriate to post about the playtest content here? do I take it to the 5e thread?
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Aug 19, 2022 04:48
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gradenko_2000 posted:would it be thread-appropriate to post about the playtest content here? do I take it to the 5e thread? 5e thread or TG Chat or just make a new thread. Unless it's the business side of things, probably not this thread.
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Aug 19, 2022 04:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:would it be thread-appropriate to post about the playtest content here? do I take it to the 5e thread? people are talking about it in the 5e thread, that'd probably be the best place to talk about specifics, focusing more on the business side is probably appropriate here. So long as it doesn't get too silly and aggro here or whatever.
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Aug 19, 2022 04:57
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gradenko_2000 posted:would it be thread-appropriate to post about the playtest content here? do I take it to the 5e thread? New thread. It's a big topic and it's not like just the 5e people care about it.
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Aug 19, 2022 05:38
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I'm already seeing friends post stuff like "can't we just move beyond editions and just call D&D D&D?" Which is just silly in terms of clarity, but it definitely shows there's a market for people that would keep buying stuff forever in an evergreen edition that wasn't technically evergreen. Though I'll also give some leeway that the folks really taking that position work in the TG space and would never commit career suicide by pointing out a big name game is bad, or a company made a mjaor misstep.
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Aug 19, 2022 07:06
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Xiahou Dun posted:New thread. It's a big topic and it's not like just the 5e people care about it. I agree with this. Especially since there's likely to be a lot of critiquing of D&D1, and I don't think it's fair to poo poo up the 5e thread with it. I say this as the sort of person who will be making GBS threads up the thread with "they named the 9th d&d d&d one"
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Aug 19, 2022 07:09
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Definitely a new thread. Including the discussion in the 5e thread seems bad for both the people who want to talk about this and the people who just want to talk about 5e.
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Aug 19, 2022 07:19
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Dexo posted:uh, Alert also allows you to swap initiative with another player, it's a good feat, that actually helps the party now lol. Yusin posted:If you get more than one Inspiration you can give it to an ally however.
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Aug 19, 2022 08:25
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Coolness Averted posted:I'm already seeing friends post stuff like "can't we just move beyond editions and just call D&D D&D?" Which is just silly in terms of clarity, but it definitely shows there's a market for people that would keep buying stuff forever in an evergreen edition that wasn't technically evergreen. Am I misremembering or wasn't this the push behind Essentials? (Before it got turned into 4e without anything you'd enjoy about 4e.)
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Aug 19, 2022 10:37
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moths posted:Am I misremembering or wasn't this the push behind Essentials? (Before it got turned into 4e without anything you'd enjoy about 4e.) Essentials was more like "this is 4.5e, but we promise you it's still 100% compatible with 4e, because we don't want to generate the fiasco that was the 3.0-to-3.5 transition again" in terms of rules compatibility, that promise was kept - it's just that, as you said, the product itself was not good
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Aug 19, 2022 10:43
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I remember that part, but I mean more the evergreen state of the line. I had a whole conversation with some friends about how we weren't going to see a 6e, and I wish I'd written it down. They're following the WoW model of iterative editions through expansions, avoiding the flashpoint of "new" by forever soft reinventing itself. You can't edition war without editions, so D&D 5.3.7 is going to be as welcome as 5.3.6 was. It's just a patch that fixes some quality of life issues and corrects an exploit or two. Of course they had to dick this up by announcing that it'll be D&D One, giving people a place to hang their angry hats.
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Aug 19, 2022 10:55
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moths posted:I remember that part, but I mean more the evergreen state of the line. I think there's a slight blurring here of Essential's promise and next's. Though you are right they were big on making sure folks knew it wasn't 4.5 Essentials was pitched as a way of fixing some of the problems with 4e and baking in some of the math improvements and rule clarifications they had made through the edition's lifespan at a 'jumping on point' for new players. So that might be where you recall it as an evergreen d&d pitch.
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Aug 19, 2022 11:15
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It got kinda weird since they massively improved the monster design while making crappier classes.
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Aug 19, 2022 11:43
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They called the twelfth D&D D&D One.
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Aug 19, 2022 11:49
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Splicer posted:Yes, that's my point. You can start with a massive combat advantage or be marginally superior at weaving baskets. Crafting is the only talent I'd say is completely silly, and in some games I've played(well okay specifically one game), it would have been pretty useful. But yeah it is a niche thing that doesn't particularly help the combat portion of the game.
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Aug 19, 2022 13:29
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There's a reason good systems make sure you can't be presented with the option to have a combat advantage or a non-combat one.
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Aug 19, 2022 13:36
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I'm being contrarian here, but I don't think a choice between a combat and noncombat option is bad per se. But in like 95% of games, combat is a defined subsystem with lots of rules and obvious stakes, while everything noncombat is loose and vague and may never come up. If the game actually has detailed rules for social combat, building stuff, domain management, etc. with clear stakes and consequences, it can work. Hell, even in an old game like Nightlife, a noncombat skill can just give you a flat amount of money every week and equipment is purchased in exact dollar amounts, so Basketweaving can get you a better gun
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Aug 19, 2022 13:58
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There's a reason good systems make sure you can't be presented with the option to have a combat advantage or a non-combat one. It's a philosophy difference but, I kinda fundamentally disagree with that. I think Crafting is a bad feat because it is just incredibly specific to a type of game with a poo poo ton more downtime and shopping than I have normally seen. However I do generally think something like skilled is a perfectly fine feat that grants utility, but no combat advantage. I don't think everything needs to help the combat Pillar, but it probably does need to be of some use in common situations. The crafting feat specifically in this case, probably does need some sort of more like "field utility" like allowing you to jury rig poo poo to help out when exploring or something.
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Aug 19, 2022 14:01
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Dexo posted:It's a philosophy difference but, I kinda fundamentally disagree with that. I think Crafting is a bad feat because it is just incredibly specific to a type of game with a poo poo ton more downtime and shopping than I have normally seen. So feats that impact combat mechanics are worth more to have down on your paper than feats that are not. There's basically 3 approaches to solving this issue in a crunchy system. 1) have the line between combat and non-combat extremely blurry and via a unified base mechanic. In the FFG funny dice systems you can spend all combat tinkering with a door lock while feeding your incidental success bennies to the guy with a big gun. 2) make each thing have both combat and non-combat aspects. Masterful crafter gives you +20% crafting speed and also you take such good care of and spend so much time customising your equipment that gain +1d6 damage or free advantage rolls etc. 3) you silo combat points pools from non-combat points pools. At first level you choose two feats, one from the crafter/skilled/linguist pool and one from the alert/gwf/shield bash pool, then you alternate. 1 and 2 are both Effort (and 2 is the one that you disagree with philosophically) but 3 is trivial, so the only reason they don't do it is because laziness and groggy tradition. Splicer fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 14:38
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Xiahou Dun posted:New thread. It's a big topic and it's not like just the 5e people care about it. Let me pitch a name for this. “One D&D: And this, is to go even further D&DBeyond.”
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Aug 19, 2022 16:34
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"One D&D: No not the good OD&D" "One D&D: One D&D too many" "One D&D: Still two D's though"
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Aug 19, 2022 16:42
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One D&D: the next essential advanced original
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Aug 19, 2022 16:49
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"One D&D: Because 5th edition minus 4th is One"
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Aug 19, 2022 16:51
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"Three D&Ds for the Elven-kings under the sky..."
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Aug 19, 2022 16:54
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One D&D: D&D One has the wrong kind of MAD
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Aug 19, 2022 16:54
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"One D&D Too Many" gets my vote.
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Aug 19, 2022 16:55
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One D&D: Ha just like the one ri*gets murdered*
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Aug 19, 2022 16:56
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More like Nat One D&D
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Aug 19, 2022 16:58
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