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Jerusalem posted:I liked that when Matthew asked Dream if Lucifer was more powerful, Dream made absolutely no bones about stating that he wasn't even remotely anywhere in the same league as Lucifer. I first read Sandman in high school this has always irked me. In the cosmology of Sandman, gods and other mythological figures are basically glorified dreams: gods are born from stories, they thrive as long as people believe in and worship them, and they wither and fade from existence when they're forgotten. No god can truthfully claim to have created the universe, or rule it, because those claims are only true in the context of their stories. So it makes sense that Lucifer is powerful, because billions of people worldwide believe in him and fear him. But at the end of the day, he's still just an adversary/underworld figure from a monotheistic religion that's only a few thousand years old, and he shouldn't even be in the same league as one of the Endless. Except, from what we're told in Season of Mists, Lucifer actually IS billions of years old, and his creator IS actually the guy who really did start the universe. That always bugged me.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:33
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Jerusalem posted:I liked that when Matthew asked Dream if Lucifer was more powerful, Dream made absolutely no bones about stating that he wasn't even remotely anywhere in the same league as Lucifer. That is interesting, because in one of the compendium books Gaiman mentions that, when he first wrote the issue A Hope In Hell the mandate from DC editors was that in the DC Universe the Christian God existed and was the actual one true God. Therefor, since the DC universe was inherently Christian, Lucifer had to be so extremely powerful as well. (I think the whole "ruling triumvirate" thing was also a mandate from DC, since that was the status quo in hell for some of the other horror titles which occasionally visited there.) Gaiman indicated, at least to the person interviewing him for that book, that the status quo of the Sandman universe after the title moved to the Vertigo imprint was that Lucifer wasn't any more inherently powerful than any other gods or god-type entities, and was fueled more by the fact that so many people believed in him. The Endless were more powerful, or at least more essential to the existence of the universe. I think the show version seemed to indicate that Dream wasn't a match for Lucifer at that point because he was weakened without his tools. That said, having him win the game against Lucifer directly was enough to show that he could still defeat her.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:29
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Indie Rocktopus posted:I first read Sandman in high school this has always irked me. The impression I got from Lucifer and the arc with the Japanese pantheon seemed like the Gods exist independently of mortals in their own realms, but their ability to affect the material world is what is affected by worship. I don't think it's pure American Gods/Pratchett rules for Gods in this setting. The implication I got in The Sandman/Lucifer was that all of the other pantheons exist, but the universe they exist in was created by The God of the Covenant. There's been other universes, with their own creators and their own Gods/Endless, but the universe of The Sandman is one created by the Abrahamic God.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:43
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:The impression I got from Lucifer and the arc with the Japanese pantheon seemed like the Gods exist independently of mortals in their own realms, but their ability to affect the material world is what is affected by worship. I don't think it's pure American Gods/Pratchett rules for Gods in this setting. The implication I got in The Sandman/Lucifer was that all of the other pantheons exist, but the universe they exist in was created by The God of the Covenant. There's been other universes, with their own creators and their own Gods/Endless, but the universe of The Sandman is one created by the Abrahamic God. Yeah, that checks out. I don't like to rely to much on interviews and spin-offs when interpreting the text (although Lucifer is fantastic), but the way you laid it out here makes sense. The other reason, I think, is that it's a stronger story with far higher stakes because it presents Lucifer as the capital-D Devil, abandoning capital-H Hell, instead of emphasizing that he's just another semi-autonomous manifestation of our collective unconscious. So even though it bugs me, this is a case where I understand slightly fudging the rules of the setting for the sake of the story.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:54
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AndyElusive posted:I thought his voice was more Benedict Cumberbatch-like initially. I honestly didn't think it was even Sturridge's real voice and that it was modulated to a lower pitch or something at first. I really liked his voice as Dream. It was one of the best parts of his characterization. One thing I noticed was that it sounds like he's whispering, even when he's talking at a normal volume. I don't know if they added an effect or if he just has a very breathy way of speaking, but I thought it was the most appropriate way for his voice to sound. Of course, Dream would speak in whispers.
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Aug 18, 2022 21:00
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Been reading my Sandman books and going beyond what the show covers, and I gotta say, as a show it's perfectly adequate-to-excellent but I can not see this production team do Shakespeare.
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Aug 18, 2022 21:08
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My Lovely Horse posted:Been reading my Sandman books and going beyond what the show covers, and I gotta say, as a show it's perfectly adequate-to-excellent but I can not see this production team do Shakespeare. I can imagine it but they'll have to lean hard into the "play within a play" aspect of Midsummer Night's Dream. The bigger issue is that multiple pages of the comics are just lengthy text block quotes from other sources, and that just can't translate to television. They've already avoided using the "death is before me today" poem from The Sound of Her Wings, which is probably the biggest regret I have about the adaptation so far, but I don't see how it was avoidable.
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Aug 18, 2022 23:06
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My Lovely Horse posted:Been reading my Sandman books and going beyond what the show covers, and I gotta say, as a show it's perfectly adequate-to-excellent but I can not see this production team do Shakespeare. the production skimped real hard on the dreaming and hell in the first season. thinking season of mists is going to be mostly earth locations, like dream and suzano-o-miko hanging out in tokyo and dream and odin hanging out in like oslo and dream and shivering jemmy hanging out at burning man
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Aug 19, 2022 00:28
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The Voice of Labor posted:the production skimped real hard on the dreaming and hell in the first season. thinking season of mists is going to be mostly earth locations, like dream and suzano-o-miko hanging out in tokyo and dream and odin hanging out in like oslo and dream and shivering jemmy hanging out at burning man And Lord Kilderkin hanging out at International Paper.
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Aug 19, 2022 01:08
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Are they not going to be able to do Thor & Loki for Seasons of Mist? I understand why but they are such a fun part of the story - especially Loki. Marvel can't actually own those concepts though, right?
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Aug 19, 2022 02:42
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I have a feeling they'll do everything they can in the design of those characters to make them as far from Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston, and in the comics Thor and Loki look way different than the Marvel counterpoints. Jaxyon posted:And Lord Kilderkin hanging out at International Paper. Amazing. TheBigBudgetSequel fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 02:45
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Borrowed Ladder posted:Are they not going to be able to do Thor & Loki for Seasons of Mist? I understand why but they are such a fun part of the story - especially Loki. Marvel can't actually own those concepts though, right? There's no way Disney can lay claim to them. Just make Thor a redhead and Loki a blond like they are in the comics and you're good to go (though it would be funny if they alluded to their more popular recent incarnations in one or two ways as a nod to the gods being affected by mortal perception).
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Aug 19, 2022 03:11
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Jaxyon posted:And Lord Kilderkin hanging out at International Paper.
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Aug 19, 2022 03:18
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Borrowed Ladder posted:Are they not going to be able to do Thor & Loki for Seasons of Mist? I understand why but they are such a fun part of the story - especially Loki. Marvel can't actually own those concepts though, right? no, they can't, I just used odin for pantheon shorthand in my idle speculation. there's a marvel odin too
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Aug 19, 2022 03:39
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Thor and Odin are both portrayed in American Gods, so it's not like it hasn't been done before. They were obviously distinct characters based on the mythology and not the comic characters of the same name.
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Aug 19, 2022 04:05
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Yeah, it would be like DC laying claim to the idea of Hell, or the Devil.
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Aug 19, 2022 04:06
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Very tenuously tangentially related, but I love the Norse Mythology as shown in Top Ten, where they're a bunch of assholes in a bar getting into drunken brawls until one of them (Baldur I believe?) gets killed and the cops get called... and it turns out this happens EVERY night and the dead guy is back the next day to do the whole thing all over again. 
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Aug 19, 2022 04:47
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dc death and marvel death having coffee together and deadpool being very confused over his affections because in the netflix audience poll that was the second most requested thing after dream/desire incest
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Aug 19, 2022 05:06
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impossiboobs posted:Thor and Odin are both portrayed in American Gods, so it's not like it hasn't been done before. They were obviously distinct characters based on the mythology and not the comic characters of the same name. Yeah, Disney do not have the sole rights to the norse pantheon...yet.
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Aug 19, 2022 06:00
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The Voice of Labor posted:dc death and marvel death having coffee together and deadpool being very confused over his affections because in the netflix audience poll that was the second most requested thing after dream/desire incest this is the future fandom geeks want
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Aug 19, 2022 06:06
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this guy will also be named low key lye smith to get around the marvel issue
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Aug 19, 2022 06:07
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I love Erik Larsen’s full throttle Kirby mode take on Thor and the gods (Thor needs a special gauntlet to hold Mjolnir, as shown below)  
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Aug 19, 2022 06:07
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Jerusalem posted:Very tenuously tangentially related, but I love the Norse Mythology as shown in Top Ten, where they're a bunch of assholes in a bar getting into drunken brawls until one of them (Baldur I believe?) gets killed and the cops get called... and it turns out this happens EVERY night and the dead guy is back the next day to do the whole thing all over again. In Marvel's version of Valhalla, a warrior got killed by Deadpool and all the other Asgardians make fun of him for it for all eternity. A shameful fate.
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Aug 19, 2022 06:11
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They released a bonus episode apparently? I'd seen clips of them around but it's Dream of a Thousand Cats/Caliope
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Aug 19, 2022 08:27
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The Dream of 1000 Cats / Calliope episode is now live on Netflix.
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Aug 19, 2022 08:29
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Those were excellent adaptations of their respective comics, holy moly. Dream of a Thousand cats was essentially word for word and Caliope did a fantastic job setting up the story of Orpheus if they get to tell it Show continues to deliver
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Aug 19, 2022 09:16
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Man I am glad to know that this is finally out. I've known about the Dream of a Thousand Cats episode for a year now since someone in my family did work on the animation of it.
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Aug 19, 2022 09:26
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Caliope was a much improved adaptation over the comic. Well done.
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Aug 19, 2022 13:51
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Starring Kassandra as Calliope no less.
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Aug 19, 2022 14:14
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Oh man, if that's the quality we can expect from Season 2 I'm loving stoked, that was great. Plus (casting, in case anybody wants the pleasant surprise) Arthur Darvill AND Derek Jacobi!
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Aug 19, 2022 15:45
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Jerusalem posted:Oh man, if that's the quality we can expect from Season 2 I'm loving stoked, that was great. Plus (casting, in case anybody wants the pleasant surprise) Arthur Darvill AND Derek Jacobi! Are you sure about that? Darvill voices Shakespeare in the Audible adaptation, just want to be sure you're not muddling.
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Aug 19, 2022 16:56
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Per Netflix, Sandman is the most popular English show since it's premiered, and watched close to 200 million hours worth. For reference that's only slightly below Extraction and I've heard them claim that Extraction would be the equivalent of a billion dollar movie in theatres. Granted, that's gotta be some marketing bullshit in there. If they're releasing viewership data, generally that means they're happy.
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Aug 19, 2022 16:57
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Jaxyon posted:For reference that's only slightly below Extraction and I've heard them claim that Extraction would be the equivalent of a billion dollar movie in theatres. Granted, that's gotta be some marketing bullshit in there. Lmao I've never heard a single person say they watched or enjoyed Extraction.
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Aug 19, 2022 16:59
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Jaxyon posted:Per Netflix, Sandman is the most popular English show since it's premiered, and watched close to 200 million hours worth. Yeah, ok that's cool but what is an Extraction
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Aug 19, 2022 17:09
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Dream of a Thousand Cats/Calliope just dropped on Netflix as a two part Episode 11 edit: derp old news! AzureFlame fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 18:05
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I have no idea why Netflix decided to put the two episodes together into a single episode. It's not as though they are constrained by runtime or anything. Perhaps a way to pay fewer residuals? I think Sturridge really did some great work in Calliope, playing it very stoically while allowing glimpses into the depth of the emotions which Dream experiences but doesn't allow himself to convey. Dude would do great in a traditional Victorian/Gothic romance.
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Aug 19, 2022 18:22
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LanceHunter posted:I have no idea why Netflix decided to put the two episodes together into a single episode. It's not as though they are constrained by runtime or anything. Perhaps a way to pay fewer residuals? Haven't seen the new episode yet, but the originals are both a single issue of the comic, so I imagine they have to stretch out a bit just to fill the half of an hour long episode. I think it's a good way to basically show more one-off stories, which there are quite a few.
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Aug 19, 2022 18:37
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Jedit posted:Are you sure about that? Darvill voices Shakespeare in the Audible adaptation, just want to be sure you're not muddling. Yep. Darvil plays Ric Maddock, the author who purchases Caliope. The cast for both of these bonus stories has a LOT of carry-over from the Audible series. Michael Sheen, David Tennant, James McAvoy, and Gaiman himself are all in Dream of a Thousand Cats and Darvil is front and center in Caliope
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Aug 19, 2022 18:56
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The casting on this series is obscene. There hasn't been an all star cast list like this since Harry Potter started up.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:20
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LanceHunter posted:I have no idea why Netflix decided to put the two episodes together into a single episode. It's not as though they are constrained by runtime or anything. Perhaps a way to pay fewer residuals? I get why they would release it two weeks after the premiere, after word of mouth had spread a bit, in order to renew interest and driver viewer numbers up again, so that's definitely a smart move. It also makes sense to establish early on that self-contained one-off episodes are A Thing in Sandman, so fair enough. "Calliope" is also an episode that's relatively cheap to make, since you only need a handful of real-life sets and hardly any CGI, so it makes sense to pick that one, rather than, say "A Midsummer Night's Dream". Why they didn't release it as two separate episodes is still a bit baffling to me though. The only reason I can think of is that, had they released "A Dream of a Thousand Cats" all by itself, viewers might have thought "oh poo poo, it's going to be the cheap animated cash grab spinoffs from here on out"*, maybe, and not given "Calliope" a chance? Who knows. *To clarify, there was nothing cheap about this. Doing this thing photorealistically would have cost a fortune, or looked like crap, or both.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:24
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