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Harold Fjord posted:VR is just a very specific kind of fancy monitor. I don't think we'll find anything amazing and new we can do with it that we weren't already doing with regular monitors and motion controls and the like That's... just not true. I keep coming back to this because it's quite possibly the only really solid use for VR, but flight simulation in virtual reality is leaps and bounds ahead of what it possible with any other sim under the seven figure mark. I've flown motion-platform sims with five monitors and a custom panel, I've flown full-cockpit sims with multiple projectors creating a seamless dome, and although arguably having the physical panel there is nice, the freedom of being able to simply look around blows it away (especially but not exclusively for entertainment purposes), and all for orders of magnitude less money, that you can set up in your house.
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Aug 19, 2022 18:55
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On another note, that CEO that got Twitter- and eventually meatspace-famous for giving all of his employees at an otherwise obscure and irrelevant payment processing company a minimum salary of $70k/year, amongst other more performative bullshit, resigned after being outed as a serial abuser, manipulator, and probably rapist. Scratch another ethical capitalist off the list, I suppose?
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Aug 19, 2022 19:38
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eXXon posted:On another note, that CEO that got Twitter- and eventually meatspace-famous for giving all of his employees at an otherwise obscure and irrelevant payment processing company a minimum salary of $70k/year, amongst other more performative bullshit, resigned after being outed as a serial abuser, manipulator, and probably rapist. Scratch another ethical capitalist off the list, I suppose? IIRC from a yosthread, he specifically went down to the front desk of the hotel and told the concierge that he didn't have sex because his girlfriend was tired or something, in the world's biggest "My not involved in a sexual assault t-shirt is raising questions answered by the t-shirt" move ever.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:42
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PT6A posted:That's... just not true. I keep coming back to this because it's quite possibly the only really solid use for VR, but flight simulation in virtual reality is leaps and bounds ahead of what it possible with any other sim under the seven figure mark. I've flown motion-platform sims with five monitors and a custom panel, I've flown full-cockpit sims with multiple projectors creating a seamless dome, and although arguably having the physical panel there is nice, the freedom of being able to simply look around blows it away (especially but not exclusively for entertainment purposes), and all for orders of magnitude less money, that you can set up in your house. What are you using for flight sim? I have a Quest 2 at my disposal but I feel like whenever I look into apps I just run up against people who are convinced nothing on earth could ever be half as good as Microsoft Flight Simulator. Separately, in this thread and also in the press there seems to be this weird assumption that nothing about how VR/AR exists today can ever change. Displays can't get better and more inclusive. The art can't get less dorky. AR won't happen and it will always be cartoony VR spaces or nothing. The trust and safety practices in shared spaces can't improve. Etc. Etc. I just don't understand how this one area of technology will somehow never get better when, like, we live in a world where high rollers will pay Disney out the nose to stay in an immersive "space cruiser" hotel for two days. On the other hand, if you have concerns that the businesses currently developing VR will end up using it for obscenely intimate data collection and pushing inescapable ads...I got nothin'.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:43
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Pinky Artichoke posted:What are you using for flight sim? I have a Quest 2 at my disposal but I feel like whenever I look into apps I just run up against people who are convinced nothing on earth could ever be half as good as Microsoft Flight Simulator. Yeah, Microsoft Flight Simulator with an HP Reverb G2, and a few physical controls (that's definitely the biggest flaw of the setup, you have to manipulate certain things based on feel or muscle memory).
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Aug 19, 2022 20:03
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PT6A posted:Yeah, Microsoft Flight Simulator with an HP Reverb G2, and a few physical controls (that's definitely the biggest flaw of the setup, you have to manipulate certain things based on feel or muscle memory). Ah, cool. I should dig up a PC and try that, I'm always hesitant about anything that needs additional local computers to work.
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Aug 19, 2022 20:44
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RecRoom's VR app on the Oculus Quest turns you 90º instantly. After several minutes of this I was nauseous for two days afterwards. The people who did Monument Valley (Ustwo) showed me a VR app years ago (Land's End) that accounted for issues like this. Movement was initiated by looking at an object in the distance that signified a movement opportunity. Turning was smooth and not nauseating. I expected it to do better but I think the company ran into difficulties.
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Aug 19, 2022 21:47
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There's enough non-social TV watching that I think a VR headset for that would be a viable product, if you can fix the resolution problem. Netflix to a perceptually large screen for lying in bed/on an airplane/apartment without room for a big TV.
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Aug 19, 2022 22:59
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Foxfire_ posted:There's enough non-social TV watching that I think a VR headset for that would be a viable product, if you can fix the resolution problem. Netflix to a perceptually large screen for lying in bed/on an airplane/apartment without room for a big TV. As a glasses wearer (and a clumsy person), I have bent and outright broken multiple pairs of glasses by wearing them while lying on the couch and knocking them against something, wearing them lying in bed to read and falling asleep or turning over and tbh it's just hella uncomfortable if you want to lean your head against idk, a plane window, cushion or pillow if you were glasses. Wearing any kind of VR headset in those sort of situations is going to get awkward fast. Just sitting on the couch would work for sure, or sitting up in bed - but lying down and trying to relax or w/e less so.
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Aug 19, 2022 23:10
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While there's no fundamental reason that VR technology couldn't eventually surpass monitors in both revolution and comfort, I feel like there's a significant practical limitation: advancing the technology costs money, and who's going to pay for that? VR certainly has room to get better, but it's very expensive work to push the technological boundaries of what's currently a very limited and niche market. Zuck can't single-handedly subsidize it forever. He has the money to do so, of course, but he's basically betting the future of Facebook on VR stuff and it doesn't look like that's going to pay off quickly enough for him. Reality Labs is bleeding money, and has yet to see any real return on the billions of dollars they're spending on trying to single-handedly brute-force affordable consumer VR into being A Thing. The technology isn't going to advance all on its own - someone has to put money into advancing the tech. The VR industry right now is stuck in a rather uncomfortable catch-22:
It's not an impossible situation to break out of, by any means. But when modern PC gaming and modern console gaming are right there as rivals, it takes a very bold bet. You can't just make Counterstrike but in VR, because people can already go play Counterstrike on a PC right now without clearing a space in their room and putting on a clunky headset. And in fact, 30+ million people play Counterstrike on a PC every month - more than double the Quest 2's entire install base (~15 million units sold to date)!
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Aug 20, 2022 03:49
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Don't forget the supply chain issues that mean everything new you've put all that R&D money into is going to be delayed for reasons you can't control! Even if you made a new VR rig so popular that it has the potential market as for the PS5, what if most people can't get it? You can't sell stuff you can't get to market, and you can't sell stuff on a platform that people don't have.
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Aug 20, 2022 03:53
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making counterstrike in VR is one of the safer bets if you can pull it off. the vr experience is different enough to be distinct but familiar enough to be a source of comparison. if i had a headset i would want to give it a try.
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Aug 20, 2022 03:56
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Stexils posted:making counterstrike in VR is one of the safer bets if you can pull it off. the vr experience is different enough to be distinct but familiar enough to be a source of comparison. if i had a headset i would want to give it a try. vr: the only display technology where cs players can't complain about the default frame rate
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Aug 20, 2022 05:14
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One of the more popular (in context with the size of the VR user base) VR games is Pavlov which is basically Counter Strike in VR plus a whole lot of modding madness that's reminiscent of 1.6/Source. Its existed for about 5 years and still gets regular updates.
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Aug 20, 2022 05:29
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It's a bit hard to take someone talking about the state of VR games landscape seriously when their example of a game that wouldn't work has existed for half a decade.
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Aug 20, 2022 05:35
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Pinky Artichoke posted:What are you using for flight sim? I have a Quest 2 at my disposal but I feel like whenever I look into apps I just run up against people who are convinced nothing on earth could ever be half as good as Microsoft Flight Simulator. IL-2 Sturmovik and DCS both do VR. The one is WW2 and the other is WW2 and modern. IL-2's Stalingrad pack is cheap on Steam and cheaper on Steam sales. DCS has a demo with a recon (unarmed) P-51 and the SU-25 which is in the news a lot these days. They're both pretty good for VR. Thing is, MSFS2020 actually is really good. Being able to drop a pin anywhere on Earth and air spawn there is amazing, there's lots of planes, and they actually built things to do into the sim.
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Aug 20, 2022 05:58
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I don't know, getting a surprise shotgun blast to the face from a dude leaping around the corner is one of the few real-life experiences I don't desire to replicate in virtual reality. VR scuba diving would be awesome though. all the fun of playing with a friendly dolphin with none of the many many ways to die under the sea.
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Aug 20, 2022 06:50
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DeeplyConcerned posted:I don't know, getting a surprise shotgun blast to the face from a dude leaping around the corner is one of the few real-life experiences I don't desire to replicate in virtual reality. It's a lot of fun, particularly if you are the one with the shotgun(s).
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Aug 20, 2022 07:20
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Pavlov VR . I've tried it and it's fun. But It kinda gives you those vibes of that unreal engine counter strike clone (I can't remember the name) back in the early 00s where it copies stuff over but something is just lost. Without VR it would just be another mediocre CS clone
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Aug 20, 2022 08:15
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Main Paineframe posted:It's not an impossible situation to break out of, by any means. But when modern PC gaming and modern console gaming are right there as rivals, it takes a very bold bet. You can't just make Counterstrike but in VR, because people can already go play Counterstrike on a PC right now without clearing a space in their room and putting on a clunky headset. And in fact, 30+ million people play Counterstrike on a PC every month - more than double the Quest 2's entire install base (~15 million units sold to date)! There's always a chance that someone will create the next Wii Sports or Fortnite that massively drives adoption but I think the reason for various poorly thought-out VR business applications is also that there's this hope that someone will stumble into some particular work-case that essentially jumps the barrier between enthusiasts and normal people, and also proves to be lasting vs most videogames. Like, my job involves climbing something that is, uh, sometimes the OSHA.jpg thread, and currently the marching orders seem to be "don't climb anything, particularly the really bad ones", but that's a big problem because we need to climb those things and the bad ones are usually what need it the most. I and others joke about getting drones so we can just video a lot of it (and we all want to play with drones) but a VR-controlled drone would actually be safer, probably faster, and in some cases result in more meaningful output. But I don't know if my use case has enough similar use in other industries such that it would be enough to drive the technology to the extent needed for that kind of feasibility. Zachack fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 08:17
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Zachack posted:There's always a chance that someone will create the next Wii Sports or Fortnite that massively drives adoption but I think the reason for various poorly thought-out VR business applications is also that there's this hope that someone will stumble into some particular work-case that essentially jumps the barrier between enthusiasts and normal people, and also proves to be lasting vs most videogames. VR drones, you say? Cops, guards and military would be interested, and a large enough sector to make it feasible!  
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Aug 20, 2022 08:47
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Nenonen posted:VR drones, you say? Cops, guards and military would be interested, and a large enough sector to make it feasible! Goggles are used in drone racing but I don't think it's VR in that you can't look around so it's more about putting the screen on your face for portability and usability in sunlight.
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Aug 20, 2022 09:15
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SCheeseman posted:It's a lot of fun, particularly if you are the one with the shotgun(s). valid point. team fortress in VR would be insane. A conc jump or rocket jump would be really fun,
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Aug 20, 2022 11:08
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SCheeseman posted:It's a bit hard to take someone talking about the state of VR games landscape seriously when their example of a game that wouldn't work has existed for half a decade. It's a game created by a solo dev who self-funded the game's development. It's not really comparable to modern AAA Counterstrike, being a Valve product back from the days when Valve made games. Ironically, being a solo work makes it kind of comparable to the original Counterstrike which started life as a Half-Life mod. But Counterstrike was bought by Valve and rereleased as a full game within two years, while Pavlov has been chugging along as a solo work with no corporate interest for five years. Hell, is it even on the Oculus Store yet? On Quest, it had to be sideloaded via unofficial stores last time I checked.
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Aug 20, 2022 15:58
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Zachack posted:Like, my job involves climbing something that is, uh, sometimes the OSHA.jpg thread, and currently the marching orders seem to be "don't climb anything, particularly the really bad ones", but that's a big problem because we need to climb those things and the bad ones are usually what need it the most. I and others joke about getting drones so we can just video a lot of it (and we all want to play with drones) but a VR-controlled drone would actually be safer, probably faster, and in some cases result in more meaningful output. But I don't know if my use case has enough similar use in other industries such that it would be enough to drive the technology to the extent needed for that kind of feasibility. Airbus has used drones in aircraft inspection for years now and they reduced both inspection time and safety issues a ton. I don't know about VR controllers, when I first heard about this I don't think that would've been viable but it probably is now.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:43
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The thing with VR is just how kind of clunky and intrusive it is and how much space it requires, etc. We've all seen the videos of people breaking TV's and poo poo or hurting themselves and others in their living rooms. It's like the opposite of playing a game on your phone and requires so much loving commitment and dedication that I think makes it hard to break through. When the tech gets good enough, it might rejuvenate the arcade industry a bit. I could see that. Where you have large, dedicated spaces to truly allow and augment the experience but as far as household ubiquity goes, I think we're a long way off. To me, it's similar to 3D movie technology in terms of mainstream potential and, for the foreseeable future, looks like it'll mostly be a novelty. Or even fade back like the most recent (mild) 3D boom did. And, as others have pointed out, if I'm being honest here I think that any real mainstream breakthroughs in the tech are absolutely going to be driven by the porn industry and making that scene in Minority Report an affordable semi reality.
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Aug 20, 2022 18:17
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Pinky Artichoke posted:Airbus has used drones in aircraft inspection for years now and they reduced both inspection time and safety issues a ton. I don't know about VR controllers, when I first heard about this I don't think that would've been viable but it probably is now. Yeah I don't know if it'd need a quest 3 and I have zero knowledge about drones but it feels like there is a real industrial use case for a small micropc powered by a vehicle or battery that connects to a quest either via air link cable or a dedicated wireless dongle and acts as the data/processing hub for a drone. No idea if the latency would get to high to be useful but being on site and having the ability to easily "get closer" in the way that VR lets you vs a monitor would be pretty significant. The other thing I assume is that a drone could be equipped with a laser for Zachack fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 18:32
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Don't have much to say for VR chat, aside from playing the new Tetris in VR is one of the most immersive and soothing experiences I've had with gaming. Not all VR needs to reflect 3D worlds to have merit.
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Aug 20, 2022 20:44
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eternal truth of videogames: tetris stays winning except for ubisoft somehow loving up that one for the ps4
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Aug 20, 2022 20:53
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iirc one of the problems was that it was doing friend list stuff/checks.
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Aug 20, 2022 21:24
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Main Paineframe posted:It's a game created by a solo dev who self-funded the game's development. It's not really comparable to modern AAA Counterstrike, being a Valve product back from the days when Valve made games. The creator of CS came from Action Half-Life (which was a movement from Action Quake 2), a game that labored in semi obscurity for years and then just sort of stopped. It's really a roll of the dice for which games will become big sometimes.
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Aug 21, 2022 04:43
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Volmarias posted:The creator of CS came from Action Half-Life (which was a movement from Action Quake 2), a game that labored in semi obscurity for years and then just sort of stopped. It's really a roll of the dice for which games will become big sometimes. I don't remember Gooseman/Minh Le being associated with AHL. He was involved with AQ2, though (mostly on the modeling side). CS was his first project on the Half-life engine, iirc. Doesn't really change your point, however.
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Aug 21, 2022 09:18
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Yeah CS came out before AHL and was much better. I don’t remember AHL ever really taking off, even to AQ2 levels.
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Aug 22, 2022 03:45
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https://twitter.com/kashhill/status/1561320951102558208 https://twitter.com/kashhill/status/1561323631040516098
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Aug 22, 2022 15:13
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Is it even possible to toggle cloud photo sync off in a way that means the next few pictures you take aren't synced, and then for them to be excluded from sync forever? AFAIK even if you wrote an app designed to send photos to your doctor they still end up in your photo library.
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Aug 22, 2022 15:41
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Thanks Ants posted:Is it even possible to toggle cloud photo sync off in a way that means the next few pictures you take aren't synced, and then for them to be excluded from sync forever? on android there is an option to save the photo to a secure local folder that is not automatically uploaded.
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Aug 22, 2022 15:42
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:on android there is an option to save the photo to a secure local folder that is not automatically uploaded. Good luck maintaining that or any other privacy settings between major updates or phone replacements.
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Aug 22, 2022 17:01
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BlueBlazer posted:Good luck maintaining that or any other privacy settings between major updates or phone replacements. I've switched phones three times without it being an issue.
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Aug 22, 2022 17:08
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Doggles posted:https://twitter.com/kashhill/status/1561320951102558208 Yeah, my wife is an NP, and it's both a blessing and a curse in terms of using phones to help with diagnostic evaluations, especially during Covid. When our own children were having rashes/etc., and she wanted to send it to friends of hers to help decide what to do, we were often having to make sure to position the camera just right, etc., in part to avoid any issue like this. It's especially hard because the photos can be useful long-term in case something comes up subsequently down the road and you want to compare. Ideally we could just store them locally, but then if you go to a doctor's appointment and they ask, you want to have it easily available and you have to hope you remembered to transfer it back.
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Aug 22, 2022 17:30
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BlueBlazer posted:Good luck maintaining that or any other privacy settings between major updates or phone replacements. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I've switched phones three times without it being an issue. It can be tricky and hard to keep track of. Mandatory software updates can dick around with your phone preferences and reset settings too. I'm a bisexual male and have had some rather compromising photos of myself accidentally uploaded on occasion. When I discovered it, I had to painstakingly go through my albums and clean that poo poo up. There wasn't a lot of it but I still had to scroll through thousands of images to weed out the questionable ones. Now I just simply don't take photos like that for the most part and, yeah, one has to be real careful and a little savvy with all the "save everything always" settings and mixing in things like your porn habits, sexting poo poo or whatever you get up about. I don't even like having stuff like medical insurance cards, my drivers license and poo poo like that that you'll certainly have to do at some point being uploaded in there with shots of my day to day life, family members or whatever.
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Aug 22, 2022 17:53
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