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CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem
honestly a case would be better made to add more ram rather than faster stuff. this is roughly the same speed but twice the capacity, you'd have to order from germany but i did that with my ram specifically and it's not bad, it gets sent from the same distribution center either way:

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/ki...germany-3983882

your CPU is still not bad at all. there are upgrades available, the 5600 would be the obvious choice but if you're doing a lot of compute work which i think audacity is you might lose a very small amount overall, big gains in gaming though. no ryzen promo atm but if you wanted to retain the same core count here's the 5700X

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09VCHQHZ6?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=pepperugc03-21&ascsubtag=2387010927

not on sale or anything, 274. i think i've seen it go as low as 240ish on promo. so that's 364, leaving us with 436 for a GPU which now actually could buy it, lets see what's available, yeah as i thought that's within 3060ti territory

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/inno3d-geforce-rtx-3060ti-twin-x2-lhr-8gb-gddr6-pci-express-graphics-card-at-overclockers-3978562

you could then sell the remaining parts on facebook market and make a bit of your money back although i would expect less than you currently would get since prices are trending down in a big way. the GPU will be the biggest upgrade by a lot.

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TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.

Sanitary Naptime posted:

Hey folks, it's time for an upgrade! I hosed up and skimped on the motherboard when I first bought this, so I've never gotten the most out of my RAM, and the whole thing is like 3 years old at this point.

Current System: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/WKR3W4

All I'm looking to actually upgrade here is the Mobo, CPU (and maybe the RAM if it'll be enough of a performance boost)
I'm not wed to the current case but i'd rather not spend too much on a new one if it'll be necessary.

What country are you in?
UK

What are you using the system for? Web and Office? Gaming? Video or photo editing? Professional creative or scientific computing? Shitposting?
Games (Mapgames mostly, and VR) and Audio/Video editing. Also streaming.

What's your budget? We usually specify for just the computer itself (plus Windows), but if you also need monitor/mouse/whatever, just say so.
£800 for Mobo, CPU (and a decent cooling system probably), and if it's worth it, new RAM

If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution / refresh rate? How fancy do you want your graphics, from “it runs” to “Ultra preset as fast as possible”? Seriously answer this. It drastically changes the recommendations you will get.
3440x1440, monitor can run at like 165hz. Graphics wise i'll be putting a 2060 in, I don't think I'd have nearly enough budget wise to get a decent upgrade for that as well.

If you’re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? What’s your typical project size and complexity? If you use multiple pieces of software, what’s your workflow?
Regularly Adobe Audition, Occasionally Adobe After Effects and Blender.

echoing that you want a GPU upgrade and if you do choose to also upgrade the CPU you don't need a new motherboard or ram, a zen 3 processor like the 5600X is just a bios update for your B450

I'm seeing 3070s as cheap as £550 on pcpartpicker's search, which isn't necessarily the cheapest available but serves as an example. 3070 is about the max I would want to put into a system with a 650w power supply. The rest of the budget can go to a 5600X or 5800X (+cooler), whichever you want to afford. Not sure how much you recoup off of selling the 2060, maybe about £150? But it's a good way to extend your budget if you want to sell it after upgrading.


e: Many posts since I wrote this, yeah a CPU upgrade could fix the ram stability on the same mobo. I don't see much availability for the 5700X for the UK but there's nothing wrong with the 5800X

TheDemon fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Aug 21, 2022

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem
oh, more posts while i was off looking lol yeah 5700x makes sense to me. could be memory controller could be motherboard could be ram. more or less fuckin anything should be running over 2133.

if you had to replace a b450 they're also not that expensive right now.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem
also worth mentioning we are on the cusp of another GPU generation with rumours that it would have launched already if it wasn't for the current supply glut. so, that 3060ti i posted is trending down in price in a big way anyway, and it might be in a few months there's a card that's cheaper and performs better - very probable, in fact, but impossible to say for sure because we don't know pricing. keep that in mind.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

I'm not sure why we're trying to push a GPU on him? Map games do not need a better GPU than a 2060, but they absolutely would benefit from a faster CPU.

As for memory upgrades, I'd rather just get a second set of 2x8GB DDR4-3200 CL16 if you need more RAM. Getting faster memory wouldn't be of much benefit, and there's typically no issue in mixing and matching different sets (use the XMP profile of the set with looser timings if there's a difference)

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem
cause a 2060 is going to struggle to push 3440x1440 165hz and contrary to what he thinks he does have the budget to upgrade there. dunno if it's wise tho, like i say it's an awkward time for an ugrade right now. you mostly play mapgames but you play other games too don't you bud?

Sanitary Naptime
May 29, 2006

MIWK!


Aye, I do, but it's nothing that I think NEEDS a boost in performance right now. Graphics wise i'm fairly content at the moment (though I will keep an eye on the price of 30 series cards anyway, since i'll need to upgrade eventually, but right now graphics aren't causing me any real problems)

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem
aye fair enough, if there's hosed with your current config sort that out first. i thought you used to play apex but maybe i was thinking of mehall, lol. upgrade the CPU and see if that fixes the ram issue, if not try that with the ram, if not try that with the mobo (in terms of ease of replacement).

my general advice is twice as many GPU upgrades as CPU upgrades over the life of a machine, so from a price/performance perspective it would usually make more sense to replace the GPU before CPU but if you're a Map Gamer that make sense. you can do it in piecemeal anway, so if you upgrade one or two things and it doesn't fix the problem you still have ample budget to do more. components are SOOOO much cheaper than they were over the last two years.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:



As for memory upgrades, I'd rather just get a second set of 2x8GB DDR4-3200 CL16 if you need more RAM. Getting faster memory wouldn't be of much benefit, and there's typically no issue in mixing and matching different sets (use the XMP profile of the set with looser timings if there's a difference)

good advice but couldn't find any good promo on 8 gig kits compared to the deal i find on 2x16, most of it is like this:

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/adata-xpg-spectrix-d60g-rgb-led-16gb-2-x-8gb-ddr4-3200mhz-ps5853-with-code-at-ebuyer-uk-ltd-ebay-3981914

even on amazon they're mostly around 60 quid. if you could find it closer to say 40 or 50, i can see 2x8 3200 cl16 was as low as 46 on prime day it makes more sense there's a mild performance advantage from dual rank anyway as i understand it.

Sanitary Naptime
May 29, 2006

MIWK!


On the note of RAM for this build actually, I've not been having much luck finding much that's actually available to buy based off the Compatibility List

How much of a problem is that going to be? The RAM i'm using isn't actually on the list (though the /32 and /64 versions are, but they're not available anywhere it looks like)

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

What's a good place in the UK to get a prebuilt AMD bundle (I'm feeling lazy), nothing too heavy duty - it's basically doing office work for my wife - so maybe a 3600 with onboard graphics and 16 gigs of RAM? I tried ordering one off Amazon but they basically only seem to have one supplier who cancelled my order the day it was due to arrive, which didn't exactly leave a good taste in my mouth.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem

feedmegin posted:

What's a good place in the UK to get a prebuilt AMD bundle (I'm feeling lazy), nothing too heavy duty - it's basically doing office work for my wife - so maybe a 3600 with onboard graphics and 16 gigs of RAM? I tried ordering one off Amazon but they basically only seem to have one supplier who cancelled my order the day it was due to arrive, which didn't exactly leave a good taste in my mouth.

read the post here for some good options, fella does a roundup every so often.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/ryzen-5-5600g-16gb-3200mhz-ram-480gb-ssd-vega-system-at-ps32500-at-palicomp-3984195

palicomp doesn't have a flawless reputation but isn't considered bad, all my interactions with CCL have been lovely and AWD makes the prebuilts Costco uses over here. ebuyer sucks rear end.

Bouchehog
Dec 19, 2002

The Campaign for Badger Rights
Hey all. I'm looking to build a brand new rig; I have been meaning to get around to this for several months now but am repeatedly too tired (two young children, not much childcare, summer holidays) so I'm looking to goons to build me a parts list.

My old machine is here. I will carry over the RTX2080 (and peripherals) until it struggles, then upgrade it with something from the next gen.

I'm based in the UK, mostly use it for gaming and work. I play mostly play Civ6 and PUBG with occasional forays into Witcher 3 / Assassins Creed 27: Fish for Knives at 2560x1440 @165 fps. Work-wise I do light spreadsheet / word processing combined with quickly needing to OCR and then repeatedly search through a 3,000+ page pdfs.

I don't have a budget as such. £1,500 without the GPU but I'd listen to arguments for more/less so it's not a hard limit by any means.

The only hard stipulation is that the case needs to fit into a cupboard in my desk and can't be more than H/W/D 43 x 33 x 48cm (17 x 13 x 19" in Freedom Units). That space is deeper and has some airflow aided by two 15cm/6" AC Affinity controlled fans.

Over to you all and thanks in advance!

Fixit
Mar 27, 2010

TheDemon posted:

The way a dual PC setup works is you have one PC for the game, and then the second computer to run OBS and encode the video for the stream. This was more prominent in the days when x264 CPU encoding and lower core counts were more common and so you would bottleneck the CPU of a single PC trying to game and encode at the same time. NVENC has done a lot to mitigate the need for dual PC setups, extreme requirements excepted. There are some games where it eats enough resources that a dual PC setup is still viable, the one that comes to mind are more competitive Apex Legends streamers. Non-gaming streams would be very strange, the use case for that would be very niche. It makes no sense to not just run the video feed into obs, streamers with a dual PC setup still run their camera directly into the streaming PC.

I would strongly suggest to verify the need for a dual PC setup because unless you are gaming or doing something of similar intensity like, say, rendering 3d on the first PC, I do not understand the use case at all, and in fact it would be outright detrimental for running in a camera.

Which PC are you building then?
The stream encoding PC does not need to be that high-end. Either you get the latest generation of NVENC on the GPU (all NVENC chips of the same generation are the same so it doesn't have to be a high end card, any 30-series I think), or you ignore GPU entirely and get a good CPU. Intel is technically on top right now with 12th gen for mid-range price brackets, but it does depend on motherboard cost, shop around and if a 12400 or 12600k makes sense those would be better depending on budget, both have igpu. 12400f if you're going with nvenc. Nothing wrong with AMD's offerings if the cheaper motherboard costs make them more budget friendly wherever you are shopping. For the streaming PC you will need a capture card, as that is the typical method to go from the gaming PC to the streaming PC

The PC running the game (or other similarly intensive task) is just a normal gaming PC, so just the biggest GPU in budget and a 12400f, etc.


ALL THAT SAID I still don't understand the use-case I just hope there's enough info here to untangle it for yourself.

Ah ok! That makes a lot of sense. I will double check the need for a dual PC but highly doubt they need it.

I was building based on only needing a single PC for streaming. The friend emphasized needing lots of USB ports since they run a bunch of cameras for the stream. So I looked up an AMD motherboard and found one with lots of USB ports and hopefully not bad specs. I prefer Intel but have no brand loyalty, go with the best at whatever time building a computer.

From the discussion have had with them it seems like they would like to up their stream quality. So if I understand it correctly, get them a 12400 and then maybe a 2060 since they are not gaming and it would make it more budget friendly.

My plan of attack was to provide them a range of builds based on their budget. They have no idea how much a PC should cost and threw out being able to spend $2,000 - $3,000 USD. Was trying to stay on the more budget side.

I really appreciate this input! Thank you so much!

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
What exactly does “up their stream quality” mean?

Wibla
Feb 16, 2011

I guess they bought a Sony mirrorless that does 4K or something :iiam:

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer
If you need a bunch of USB ports just buy a USB hub.

Butterfly Valley
Apr 19, 2007

I am a spectacularly bad poster and everyone in the Schadenfreude thread hates my guts.
Supervised my nephew's build the other day and it went pretty painlessly, successfully booting first time. The Fractal Pop Mini Air is a decent enough case with a slightly cheaper feel than I would have hoped, with the thumbscrews to hold the side panel in being very tight and tough to screw in and out by hand. Some paint also stripped screwing in the PSU. Otherwise tons of extra space and storage capacity, clear instructions, 3 RGB fans and a decent overall look imo.

I found installing the Arctic Freezer 34 esports duo easy enough - quite a few steps to go through, but none of them particularly complicated or tricky. I followed CoolCab's advice and clipped the fans on before putting it in the case which was definitely the best way round to do it, except then my nephew noticed some plastic film to peel off the fans which necessitated removing one of the fans and replacing it while it was in the case, which I managed to do without bending the clips.

It was my first time installing an LGA CPU and it definitely felt a little more nerve wracking with the amount of force required to close the socket arm compared to AM4.









He needs a better monitor now as his current one is a 1080p 75hz thing he picked up in a sale a while back without my advice.



Bonus cat help.

Something else: XMP said it was enabled by default but the RAM wasn't running at the speed it should have been - the old classic of turning XMP off and on again made it work as it should.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



Butterfly Valley posted:

Supervised my nephew's build the other day and it went pretty painlessly, successfully booting first time. The Fractal Pop Mini Air is a decent enough case with a slightly cheaper feel than I would have hoped, with the thumbscrews to hold the side panel in being very tight and tough to screw in and out by hand. Some paint also stripped screwing in the PSU. Otherwise tons of extra space and storage capacity, clear instructions, 3 RGB fans and a decent overall look imo.

I found installing the Arctic Freezer 34 esports duo easy enough - quite a few steps to go through, but none of them particularly complicated or tricky. I followed CoolCab's advice and clipped the fans on before putting it in the case which was definitely the best way round to do it, except then my nephew noticed some plastic film to peel off the fans which necessitated removing one of the fans and replacing it while it was in the case, which I managed to do without bending the clips.

It was my first time installing an LGA CPU and it definitely felt a little more nerve wracking with the amount of force required to close the socket arm compared to AM4.









He needs a better monitor now as his current one is a 1080p 75hz thing he picked up in a sale a while back without my advice.



Bonus cat help.

Something else: XMP said it was enabled by default but the RAM wasn't running at the speed it should have been - the old classic of turning XMP off and on again made it work as it should.

You clearly need to throw an overclock on that cat.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Bouchehog posted:

Hey all. I'm looking to build a brand new rig; I have been meaning to get around to this for several months now but am repeatedly too tired (two young children, not much childcare, summer holidays) so I'm looking to goons to build me a parts list.

My old machine is here. I will carry over the RTX2080 (and peripherals) until it struggles, then upgrade it with something from the next gen.

I'm based in the UK, mostly use it for gaming and work. I play mostly play Civ6 and PUBG with occasional forays into Witcher 3 / Assassins Creed 27: Fish for Knives at 2560x1440 @165 fps. Work-wise I do light spreadsheet / word processing combined with quickly needing to OCR and then repeatedly search through a 3,000+ page pdfs.

I don't have a budget as such. £1,500 without the GPU but I'd listen to arguments for more/less so it's not a hard limit by any means.

The only hard stipulation is that the case needs to fit into a cupboard in my desk and can't be more than H/W/D 43 x 33 x 48cm (17 x 13 x 19" in Freedom Units). That space is deeper and has some airflow aided by two 15cm/6" AC Affinity controlled fans.

Over to you all and thanks in advance!

Is there anything you're doing right now with your current PC that leaves you wanting more performance? I ask because, from what I can tell looking at benchmarks and reviews, for everything you do aside from OCR and rapid document searching, you don't have too much to gain from a CPU upgrade right now. Intel sorta stagnated for a few generations after the 8th gen, and AMD is not too far ahead of that right now. Based on the benchmarks, you have less than 10% performance to gain when it comes to 1440p gaming, and maybe 33% in OCR (which is something TechPowerUp tests in their reviews). I'm not sure about rapid PDF searching. Technically, there are CPUs in Intel's latest generation that offer over double the overall performance, but tasks need to be heavily multithreaded to take advantage of that.

So it's hard for me to say whether or not upgrading right now would be worth it. If I were to recommend something, it would probably be something like this. One thing I'm not sure about there is the case. It fits your cubby's dimensions, with 4.5cm of clearance on the top and 4cm of clearance in width (so 2cm on either side, which isn't a lot). It might be fine, but I don't have much experience with putting PCs into cubbies like that, so I don't know for sure. But if you can make it work, the o11 air mini is a squat but capable case that can fit full ATX motherboards (achieved by moving the psu and storage drives to behind the motherboard).

But also, new CPUs are coming out in a month or two, so if you don't have a pressing need to upgrade right now, then you may want to wait.

edit: you may be able to get away with reusing the AIO, but those have limited lifespans due to gradual permeation or eventual pump failure, and there's usually no way to refill them or replace the pump. I also went overkill on the power supply because GPUs and CPUs are becoming ridiculously power hungry. And there's a cheaper white version of that case. I think there must be some availability issues or something with it, because there are a number of stores that have the black version for cheaper, but they're all out of stock.

Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Aug 22, 2022

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem
i read that question and hesitated because i don't know or care about SFF, (please don't get mad at me again thread, lol) but honestly i was chewing it over - do you move it routinely? i would be very tempted to try to build something open chassis in there as a kind of desk pc lite tbh. if it's surrounded on all sides any case is kind of irrational.

and yeah 13th gen at least is around the corner and that chip ain't bad at all, i'd wait for that at least.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem
butterfly: aesthetics are subjective but i legit like the look of that a lot, i also went for a white/black theme with colour accents and the white PSU cables look imo really good in that case. at least at 1080 75Hz he could crank the ray tracing and stuff

Lackmaster
Mar 1, 2011
Am I right thinking that recent amd CPUs pretty much overclock themselves and therefore a BXX motherboard is fine for even a higher end cpu?

Seems like compared to intel you can get amd and get a simpler board without leaving much performance on the table. Seems like a ZXX board is basically mandatory for the i7 or i9 intel cpus.

Am I off base here? This is making me think I want to go amd ryzen instead of 13th gen intel when I upgrade later this year.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Lackmaster posted:

Am I right thinking that recent amd CPUs pretty much overclock themselves and therefore a BXX motherboard is fine for even a higher end cpu?

Seems like compared to intel you can get amd and get a simpler board without leaving much performance on the table. Seems like a ZXX board is basically mandatory for the i7 or i9 intel cpus.

Am I off base here? This is making me think I want to go amd ryzen instead of 13th gen intel when I upgrade later this year.

AMD does not lock any features in the B-series chipsets, no. They may do so with lower-end chipsets, but I don't know much about those, and home builders generally shouldn't be buying those anyway. The difference between AMD's B650 and X670 chipsets will be entirely in the I/O supported—the number of USB ports, PCIe lanes, m.2 slots, etc. In fact, they both use the same chips, but B650 will use one while X670 will use two.

There are Intel Z-series motherboards that are pretty cheap, there are AMD B-series boards that are quite expensive, and the inverse is sometimes true too. So it will really depend, and you'll want to compare AMD and Intel products on a board-to-board basis instead of worrying about chipsets. Find some AMD and Intel boards with feature parity, then try to find AMD and Intel CPUs with performance parity, then compare the prices to determine which is the better value (or try to find price parity and compare performance/features). IMO, it's still a toss-up as to who will come out on top in terms of value. We don't know enough about performance and pricing to say for sure yet.

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.

Fixit posted:

Ah ok! That makes a lot of sense. I will double check the need for a dual PC but highly doubt they need it.

I was building based on only needing a single PC for streaming. The friend emphasized needing lots of USB ports since they run a bunch of cameras for the stream. So I looked up an AMD motherboard and found one with lots of USB ports and hopefully not bad specs. I prefer Intel but have no brand loyalty, go with the best at whatever time building a computer.

From the discussion have had with them it seems like they would like to up their stream quality. So if I understand it correctly, get them a 12400 and then maybe a 2060 since they are not gaming and it would make it more budget friendly.

My plan of attack was to provide them a range of builds based on their budget. They have no idea how much a PC should cost and threw out being able to spend $2,000 - $3,000 USD. Was trying to stay on the more budget side.

I really appreciate this input! Thank you so much!

With a 6-core like the 12400 just make sure they are actually using NVENC encoding in OBS but yes that sounds fine.

Wibla posted:

I guess they bought a Sony mirrorless that does 4K or something :iiam:

If it's a 4k camera like the above speculation they may require a HDMI capture card/dongle to accept live video with it, something like the Elgato Cam Link 4K (or a cheaper alternative but I am not that familiar with your options, sorry). This can go all the way up to something like the Blackmagic Design DeckLink Quad HDMI for more HDMI cable 4k cameras. It really *really* depends on exactly what the setup is, you need to know exactly how each of the cameras connects and feeds live video.

Re: USB, that's actually a pretty complicated issue if they're higher quality or framerate cameras. On a hub, even a USB 3.0 hub, if the devices are USB 2.0 they will all share 2.0 bandwidth to my understanding (I am sure we will have half a dozen people telling you how I'm wrong if that's not correct). If the devices are 3.0 it's a bit more convenient with higher bandwidth available. Even multiple USB ports on the same motherboard can share bandwidth depending on how they are connected internally, so it really depends on exactly what will be required. I would try a usb hub first, and if that + the motherboard ports isn't sufficient you may need to spend a small amount on a PCIe USB Controller card. Paying more initially for more ports on the motherboard I am a bit lukewarm on.

Fixit
Mar 27, 2010

Popete posted:

If you need a bunch of USB ports just buy a USB hub.

This is a great idea!

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

What exactly does “up their stream quality” mean?

This is what they mentioned to me "the only thing is we have 2 pcie usb 3 cards that have individually powered usbs for all the cameras, but beyond that we need a beefy computer with lots of inputs." Would getting a motherboard with PCIE slots solve this problem or because they are external and use USB to power them just need to get a USB hub?

TheDemon posted:

With a 6-core like the 12400 just make sure they are actually using NVENC encoding in OBS but yes that sounds fine.

If it's a 4k camera like the above speculation they may require a HDMI capture card/dongle to accept live video with it, something like the Elgato Cam Link 4K (or a cheaper alternative but I am not that familiar with your options, sorry). This can go all the way up to something like the Blackmagic Design DeckLink Quad HDMI for more HDMI cable 4k cameras. It really *really* depends on exactly what the setup is, you need to know exactly how each of the cameras connects and feeds live video.

Re: USB, that's actually a pretty complicated issue if they're higher quality or framerate cameras. On a hub, even a USB 3.0 hub, if the devices are USB 2.0 they will all share 2.0 bandwidth to my understanding (I am sure we will have half a dozen people telling you how I'm wrong if that's not correct). If the devices are 3.0 it's a bit more convenient with higher bandwidth available. Even multiple USB ports on the same motherboard can share bandwidth depending on how they are connected internally, so it really depends on exactly what will be required. I would try a usb hub first, and if that + the motherboard ports isn't sufficient you may need to spend a small amount on a PCIe USB Controller card. Paying more initially for more ports on the motherboard I am a bit lukewarm on.

Ok perfect! I am working on a new build with potential variances to meet whatever their budget it. I will make sure to mention that to them.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem
if you are in communication with them I would legit ask exactly what is intended to plug in. if it's a ton of high quality cameras that they want a technician to manage it might be heavier than we are assuming, and it will be non trivially difficult so ie the audio issues mentioned previous might require a soundcard solution, etc

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

TheDemon posted:

With a 6-core like the 12400 just make sure they are actually using NVENC encoding in OBS but yes that sounds fine.

If it's a 4k camera like the above speculation they may require a HDMI capture card/dongle to accept live video with it, something like the Elgato Cam Link 4K (or a cheaper alternative but I am not that familiar with your options, sorry). This can go all the way up to something like the Blackmagic Design DeckLink Quad HDMI for more HDMI cable 4k cameras. It really *really* depends on exactly what the setup is, you need to know exactly how each of the cameras connects and feeds live video.

Re: USB, that's actually a pretty complicated issue if they're higher quality or framerate cameras. On a hub, even a USB 3.0 hub, if the devices are USB 2.0 they will all share 2.0 bandwidth to my understanding (I am sure we will have half a dozen people telling you how I'm wrong if that's not correct). If the devices are 3.0 it's a bit more convenient with higher bandwidth available. Even multiple USB ports on the same motherboard can share bandwidth depending on how they are connected internally, so it really depends on exactly what will be required. I would try a usb hub first, and if that + the motherboard ports isn't sufficient you may need to spend a small amount on a PCIe USB Controller card. Paying more initially for more ports on the motherboard I am a bit lukewarm on.

There’s no way USB 2.0 will keep up with streamed high frame rate cameras, and even a USB 3.0 port will probably not run multiple on a hub due to bandwidth limitations.

This will also vary highly by motherboard manufacturer, but even at USB 3.0 speeds if you’re trying to live feed multiple cameras through the same USB 3.0 bus (as generally multiple ports will share a single lane, or even all the ports on the lower end), you could run into bandwidth limitations. USB 3.0 is capable, but not THAT capable.

Absolutely we’re talking money as hell here, but for something this complicated with this high quality should have a dedicated video device (like thatdemon said) that can take multiple inputs via HDMI (or whatever the camera supports) and switch them, so the computer only has to handle one video stream in. This is also how live broadcast TV is done for the most part.

Theoretically this is where a “2 Pc setup” could come in. But I wouldn’t trust a whole rear end PC running windows to do this efficiently when you can get what you need out of a dedicated piece of hardware that is designed to cater to that spec.


If I were setting out with the goal of designing a multi-cam 4k high bitrate live stream setup, I’d buy a video switcher that outputs to the PC via thunderbolt 4 (3 is also probably ok) and make sure I had a thunderbolt 4 port or PCI-E card. And since it’s thunderbolt connected it would likely come with manual switching buttons AND software to change inputs via the streaming PC.

Something like this.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1500555-REG/blackmagic_design_bdlkulsdmini4k_ultrastudio_4k_mini_connector.html

To get an idea of what’s out there B&H’s website will have similar stuff. Black magic is an enormous brand in this space.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/video-interfaces/ci/38060

If his stream has actual capital to burn, this is the kind of thing I’d consider hiring out to get correct. There’s a reason high quality multicam streams aren’t super common. And when they’re present, they’re generally run by a team off camera. See paymoneywubby as a good example.


Edit:

This isn’t even considering the video sync issues you would likely experience with multiple streams trying to be encoded and processed by the same PC. Or audio design and sync. Which in and of itself can be an enormously complex problem for a setup like this.

Pilfered Pallbearers fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Aug 22, 2022

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.
My impression was a lower end setup with maybe one 4k camera and a few 1080p 30fps webcams maybe. Given that it seems likely the existing setup is not very high spec if they are laymen asking a friend to build something for them, and given that they are presently using USB which would preclude the type of camera that needs HDMI cards.

But yes, the moment you add high quality cameras to the setup it needs much higher tier hardware. Not a higher tier computer necessarily, but higher tier connections and decoding.

Azmund
Mar 27, 2010
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gpdRnt

No Microcenter.

What country are you in? USA
What are you using the system for? Gaming
What's your budget? 1600 to 1700
If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution / refresh rate? Going to buy a 1440 144hz monitor soon after build.

I haven't built a new computer in at least 8 years, all my hardware is very out of date. It's time to blow some money and make a modern gaming machine. I'm not particularly interested in waiting for whatever brand new bleeding edge is on the horizon, looking to purchase and put this thing together in the next month or so. Any advice on this list I threw together is appreciated, I have very little current day familiarity with what is available.

Azmund fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Aug 22, 2022

Bouchehog
Dec 19, 2002

The Campaign for Badger Rights

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Is there anything you're doing right now with your current PC that leaves you wanting more performance? I ask because, from what I can tell looking at benchmarks and reviews, for everything you do aside from OCR and rapid document searching, you don't have too much to gain from a CPU upgrade right now. Intel sorta stagnated for a few generations after the 8th gen, and AMD is not too far ahead of that right now. Based on the benchmarks, you have less than 10% performance to gain when it comes to 1440p gaming, and maybe 33% in OCR (which is something TechPowerUp tests in their reviews). I'm not sure about rapid PDF searching. Technically, there are CPUs in Intel's latest generation that offer over double the overall performance, but tasks need to be heavily multithreaded to take advantage of that.

So it's hard for me to say whether or not upgrading right now would be worth it. If I were to recommend something, it would probably be something like this. One thing I'm not sure about there is the case. It fits your cubby's dimensions, with 4.5cm of clearance on the top and 4cm of clearance in width (so 2cm on either side, which isn't a lot). It might be fine, but I don't have much experience with putting PCs into cubbies like that, so I don't know for sure. But if you can make it work, the o11 air mini is a squat but capable case that can fit full ATX motherboards (achieved by moving the psu and storage drives to behind the motherboard).

But also, new CPUs are coming out in a month or two, so if you don't have a pressing need to upgrade right now, then you may want to wait.

edit: you may be able to get away with reusing the AIO, but those have limited lifespans due to gradual permeation or eventual pump failure, and there's usually no way to refill them or replace the pump. I also went overkill on the power supply because GPUs and CPUs are becoming ridiculously power hungry. And there's a cheaper white version of that case. I think there must be some availability issues or something with it, because there are a number of stores that have the black version for cheaper, but they're all out of stock.

Thank you - I will hold off in that case.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem

Azmund posted:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gpdRnt

No Microcenter.

What country are you in? USA
What are you using the system for? Gaming
What's your budget? 1600 to 1700
If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution / refresh rate? Going to buy a 1440 144hz monitor soon after build.

I haven't built a new computer in at least 8 years, all my hardware is very out of date. It's time to blow some money and make a modern gaming machine. I'm not particularly interested in waiting for whatever brand new bleeding edge is on the horizon, looking to purchase and put this thing together in the next month or so. Any advice on this list I threw together is appreciated, I have very little current day familiarity with what is available.

overall pretty good but - i appreciate and have read what you've said you're not particularly interested in waiting but be aware that the current rumoured launch of the 40 series is october, and like the previous generation the 70s series SKU is rumoured to compete with the highest tier of the previous generation ie the 3070 was roughly as good as a 2080ti and the 4070 is alleged to be as good as the 3090ti, although almost certainly with less VRAM. for 750 bucks, i dunno man i would seriously consider waiting. but i don't have a crystal ball either and even though afaik GPU supply is in abundance and prices are still trending downwards inflation is biting elsewhere real loving hard, so who knows what next gen pricing will look like.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem
hrm. i think my power supply is going, does this match the behavior? system is fine until it suddenly powers off during an extended play session seemingly at random (and for sure not correlated to temps), always when utilization is high. cycles back on itself fine. i think it's the 30 series pulling high spikes of power tripping OPP issue - i was hoping it was some weird apex issue since it started happening with a patch but looking over event viewer it's happened quite a few times over the past few months and today in another title where i've barely been gaming due to the heat.

i have a 650w gold, a very nice one, pushing probably slight more than i normally would because i bought it piecemeal. a 3900x, a 3070, two SATA 3.5 HDDs and one 2.5 USB HDD, 3 SATA SSDs, an NVME SSD and a few relatively high power USB perpetuals. that's slowly increased over time, in particular the storage - but i used to be able to run the machine with PBO enabled and a mild GPU overclock (+10 on the power limit) without experiencing the issue, and it seems to be getting worse - at first just turning off PBO fixed it, then turning off the GPU overclock did, now even running it at 96% power limit doesn't prevent the behavior. it's intermittent enough that it's hard to be sure, though.

i'm going to try a proper undervolt but - nothing i've added to the system is as much as +10% on a power limit, right? and as such it's likely that the PSU has degraded a bit somehow and should be RMAed under warranty as an early step, probably after pulling it out and checking connections.

CoolCab fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Aug 22, 2022

Echophonic
Sep 16, 2005

ha;lp
Gun Saliva
I've been spinning my wheels for a bit and wanted to check my planning. I'm currently at the edge of what my PC will handle gaming-wise (an OC'd i7-4790K and 32GB of DDR3 1866 with a 2060 Super) and I think it's about time to at least do a CPU/RAM upgrade. I'm currently fine for most things at 1080p, but I'd like to look into a monitor upgrade early next year. It's not critical, but I would like a bit more heft sometime in the near future. I also was planning on doing a GPU upgrade, but I figure the 2060S will be fine for a while longer. I'm fine with splashing a bit of cash since I clearly like to run systems into the ground.

I have a few (probably dumb) questions:
Since I'm still just planning anyway, should I wait for the 13th gen Intels to drop before I pull the trigger? Worst case I might be able to get a deal on an Alder Lake.

Should I go DDR5 at that point or just do a DDR4 board until a future upgrade when boards are better with it? From some reading it sounds like XMP and running 4 sticks of RAM is an issue on a lot of boards. I am fully planning on running whatever I get until I start having issues running stuff.

If I care about quiet (my current case front-runner is a Be Quiet Pure Base 500DX), is there much of a sound difference between some type of AIO and the Noctua air coolers?

I'll probably come back to this later, but I was planning on turning the 4790k and my old mobo into a new fileserver. I'd need a new case, any winners for drive bay count and compactness?

Echophonic fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Aug 22, 2022

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem

rrrrrr, coolermaster advise you are supposed to contact the retailer in the first two years and amazon won't replace only refund. so it will involve a complete teardown, and PSU pricing is terrible, ugh. while i wait for something to go on sale undervolting might help, right? and there's nothing else i could test, it's weird it broke so quickly. i've only had it since march.

Butterfly Valley
Apr 19, 2007

I am a spectacularly bad poster and everyone in the Schadenfreude thread hates my guts.
Can't you check the cable compatibility on their website and order a new/equivalent PSU, then just change the box itself and not the cables if they're all compatible?

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

Undervolting might help, but I'd also suggest unplugging some drives/components and see if you can recreate the issue. 3.5" SATA drives in particular can pull down a surprising amount of power, especially if they're 7200RPM drives.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem
the last time i added an internal HDD was a month after installing this PSU (aprilish). it ran fine for months after that, as far as i can tell the issue started in june. i also added the USB HDD around june, but the first shutdowns in event viewer are before then. it's also very inconsistent. annoying, i'll try the undervolt and if i do wind up returning it to amazon, which they've promised to make hassle free because they can't do a replacement, maybe i'll buy one with a bit more wattage.

the only other thing i could think it could be is the GPU since it's only happening when it's going. they're both currently under warranty but won't be forever, so i wanna make sure it's not one or the other.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem

Echophonic posted:

I've been spinning my wheels for a bit and wanted to check my planning. I'm currently at the edge of what my PC will handle gaming-wise (an OC'd i7-4790K and 32GB of DDR3 1866 with a 2060 Super) and I think it's about time to at least do a CPU/RAM upgrade. I'm currently fine for most things at 1080p, but I'd like to look into a monitor upgrade early next year. It's not critical, but I would like a bit more heft sometime in the near future. I also was planning on doing a GPU upgrade, but I figure the 2060S will be fine for a while longer. I'm fine with splashing a bit of cash since I clearly like to run systems into the ground.

I have a few (probably dumb) questions:
Since I'm still just planning anyway, should I wait for the 13th gen Intels to drop before I pull the trigger? Worst case I might be able to get a deal on an Alder Lake.

Should I go DDR5 at that point or just do a DDR4 board until a future upgrade when boards are better with it? From some reading it sounds like XMP and running 4 sticks of RAM is an issue on a lot of boards. I am fully planning on running whatever I get until I start having issues running stuff.

If I care about quiet (my current case front-runner is a Be Quiet Pure Base 500DX), is there much of a sound difference between some type of AIO and the Noctua air coolers?

I'll probably come back to this later, but I was planning on turning the 4790k and my old mobo into a new fileserver. I'd need a new case, any winners for drive bay count and compactness?

you should wait until 13th comes out imo given you might get a cheaper chip or 12th pricing might adjust. DDR5 is allegedly moving towards price parity in terms of performance and if you were future proofing maybe it's more compelling for you. quiet is a question with multiple good answers and depends very heavily on the thermal properties of the chip you buy, but up until a certain thermal load generally midrange AIOs and high end air coolers are similar in price and the air coolers perform as good or better, with the general eyeball rule being that water is quieter under load and air is quieter idle. if you are buying a monster chip you might need a monster radiator to keep it cool.

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Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

CoolCab posted:

the last time i added an internal HDD was a month after installing this PSU (aprilish). it ran fine for months after that, as far as i can tell the issue started in june. i also added the USB HDD around june, but the first shutdowns in event viewer are before then. it's also very inconsistent. annoying, i'll try the undervolt and if i do wind up returning it to amazon, which they've promised to make hassle free because they can't do a replacement, maybe i'll buy one with a bit more wattage.

the only other thing i could think it could be is the GPU since it's only happening when it's going. they're both currently under warranty but won't be forever, so i wanna make sure it's not one or the other.

Try an undervolt.

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