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Sanguinia posted:When we enter the scene, she’s again complaining about being forced to spend so much time with the Doman filth she despises because her torture victim won’t break. Gosetsu is quick to ‘sympathize’ with how unfair it is that a ‘painted woman’ (old-timey slang for a prostitute) who sold her whole nation to the most elite clients in the world should have to endure these poor conditions. She’s not impressed by the cheap insult, so he takes a more personal shot via the history he hasn’t yet told us. He pontificates that the “Orphan of the Naerui,” and the “Widow of Sashihai,” must truly enjoy all the suffering she’s been permitted to inflict on Doma through her betrayal. Whatever all that means, the tactic of invoking it… doesn’t go down as well as he’d probably hoped. (As the further enhanced interrogation of Gosetsu proceeds, I get the impression that not much more than perhaps a day at most has gone by since you left his side in storytelling.)
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Aug 23, 2022 07:48
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1stGear posted:FF14 has some of the best "crazy eyes" facial animations of any video game. All that time spent torturing Hildibrand's face model in 2.X paid off. 
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Aug 23, 2022 07:50
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That is one of my favorite dungeons just because it makes what are some basic mechanical choices for a CRPG and makes them actually fun with their focus on visuals and sound. Like the second boss and the *poof* of smoke as you transform or the sounds of the ravaging sharks if you mess up that third boss mechanics.
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Aug 23, 2022 07:58
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Sanguinia posted:That’s right; you defeat the seductive powers of an attractive young princess by BEING OLD! But seriously, this is significant and yet another massive Japanese Culture Reference. My understanding from Japanese media is that there's no one hornier than old people.
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Aug 23, 2022 08:32
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Ibblebibble posted:If anyone was curious about some of the Doman character's names we've met/heard of: Oh boy, now THIS is fun stuff. If Japanese writers love anything, it's meaningful names and playing with Kanji So, as Ibble noted and I've been told by others, apparently most names in the Japanese text are actually written in Katakana (which is the Japanese "alphabet" (it's not actually an alphabet, but I'm simplifying here) used for words borrowed from other languages), even the ones from Eastern lands. But if you go to the Chinese version of the game you can find the names written in Chinese characters, which are the root of Japan's Kanji. Now, the Japanese and Chinese readings of these characters are almost never the same, but when I plugged these into google and added "kanji," onto the search I was taken to a popular Kanji teaching website, https://jisho.org and it turns out that most of these are actually spot on in Japanese. Now here's a fun thing about Japanese Kanji: they often have two possible readings. The "kun," reading is for when the word is meant to be taken on its own as a complete noun, verb or adjective, while the "on," reading is for when the word is meant to be read as a compound. That rule can have exceptions though. For example, in Japanese, 夕 is indeed "Yu," meaning Evening, and 雾 does mean Mist, but its "kun," reading is actually "Kiri." However, there is actually a compound noun specifically referring to "evening mist," but instead of using the On form for either syllable, it simply keeps the Kun form but changed the pronunciation for the second Kanji to Giri. Don't ask me why, I don't know! But either way Yugiri's name does mean "Evening Mist." And not "Evening + Mist" because that would be Yukiri ~*~*~ The Kanji used for Doma are not pronounced "Doma," at all in Japanese. You would read them as Tame (Tah-May). They DO mean Many Agates/Onyx in Japanese though. I tried finding Kanji that could be read as Do and Ma but I kid you not there were like 30 options for each, and that's not even counting if I tried adding in a 'u' to make a long O sound. Some of the more amusing possibilities: Do - Soil or Earth, Degrees or Number of Occurences, Toil, Anger or Offense, Money Repository, Bird Cage, Slow Horse (as an idiom for a foolish fellow), the tip of an arrow Ma - An interval or space between things, Horse, Hemp, Witch or Demon, Jasmine, Truth or Reality, Measles, A type of edible mushroom, to mince something, Rope, The bleat of a sheep Final amazing note: those two characters in Chinese, read as Doma, are used behind a third symbol, pronounced "So," as one Chinese form of Sodom. As in Sodom and Gammorah. ~*~*~ Hien's name is divided between two Kanji, "Hi," meaning to fly and "Ien," meaning a Swallow, as in the bird. There's two interesting things about that. First is that when I plugged that Chinese character into Google it immediately spat out a completely different one, 飛 which is read as Hi in Japanese. I didn't even need to do any work, Google just knew which Kanji to plug in. That probably has a lot to do with the other thing: the Swallow is a VERY significant bird in real-life Samurai lore. Which means now I have something neat to talk about when I meet Hien! Assuming it ends up being relevant. ~*~*~ Yotsuyu's name can only be read using the Kun form of her Kanji, With "Yo," meaning Night and "Tsuyu," meaning dew. However, Tsuyu can ALSO be read as Tears or To Expose. Night Dew DOES seem to be the most likely reading since Asatsuyu, Morning Dew, is a pretty common phrase. But Japanese writers just LOVE to take advantage of multiple reading kanji, so "Night Tears," and "To Expose In The Night," being on the table seems worth noting. Conversely, Gosetsu's name can ONLY be read using the On form, meaning his name should be properly read as a compound noun. "Gou," can be read as overpowering, great and powerful, but when combined with "Setsu," which does mean Snow, there is a common compound noun, Gousetsu, which means "Tremendous Snow." It's that's not a proper Roe name I don't know what is! Final note, and I swear to Jesus that this is true: In Japan, Gosetsu's kanji for "Gou," is used as shorthand slang for Australia, and Yotsuyu's kanji for Tsuyu, when read in it's On form of "Ro," is the same for Russia. Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 09:12
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飞 is the Simplified Chinese form, 飛 is Traditional/Japanese. Also why kiri turns into -giri: look up rendaku, it's basically a way for sounds to flow better (kinda sorta). Simple concept, complex topic. Ibblebibble fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 09:21
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Another example is hana, or flower, occasionally getting turned into bana when compounded with another word. Like ikebana, the art of flower arrangement.
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Aug 23, 2022 09:34
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I am aware of the concept from when I was studying the language/living in Japan, I just have no idea how or why it works in any given case 
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Aug 23, 2022 09:43
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Runa posted:Another example is hana, or flower, occasionally getting turned into bana when compounded with another word. Like ikebana, the art of flower arrangement. See, I don't know anything about Japanese, I just blind translated my FFXIV Samurai's name. Hanayuki Mikazuchi.
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Aug 23, 2022 09:59
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Sanguinia posted:Chapter 13: A World of Endless Blue I shall be reading all further updates in Kronk's voice. https://i.imgur.com/aYm9odq.mp4
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Aug 23, 2022 10:00
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As a Certified Raen Player I can say definitively that Sui-no-Sato is just a village of sparkle Raen, not the entire subrace. We never actually see the normal Doman Raen.
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Aug 23, 2022 10:38
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Lord_Magmar posted:See, I don't know anything about Japanese, I just blind translated my FFXIV Samurai's name. Oh forgot to mention that rendaku affects the second word in a compound word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendaku So from the examples on that wikipedia page, ori+kami becomes origami. Now ikebana I'd already mentioned but you may be more familiar with the SAM iaijutsu that happens to have the word bana in it. Amusingly, for similar pronunciation reasons, the series Gundam Reconguista in G (or G-Reco), applies a similar consonant shift to a Spanish word because the word "reconquista" sounded awkward to pronounce using Japanese syllabics. Or, at least it did to the staff producing the show.
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Aug 23, 2022 10:48
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I think one of the Moonfire events also had recolored Shisui glamour.
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Aug 23, 2022 11:18
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Sanguinia posted:I am aware of the concept from when I was studying the language/living in Japan, I just have no idea how or why it works in any given case It's an incredibly complicated linguistic question, since the pattern isn't really obvious and was messed up with analogy. But roughly speaking, it almost only affects native Japanese roots and not loanwords or onomatopoeia (but see hanagaruta where the Portuguese-loaned karuta shows rendaku or kogaisha where it happens to the chinese compound kaisha) that don't contain another b-, d-, g- or z- row sound (so akikaze cannot become akigaze because of the z, same with kurohige or torihada) There's also an influence of the type of compound (yama+kawa shows rendaku when it means mountain river but not when it means mountains and rivers) or the nature of the components of the compound: rendaku's common in adjective+adjective (usugurai) or verb+adjective compounds (migurushii) but rare in verb+verb compounds and a mess with noun+verb compounds (hitogoroshi but inukoroshi because one's an abstract concept and the other a job). As for how this developped, it's generally thought that Old Japanese voiced obstruents (so, sounds like b d g z) weren't pronounced quite like in standard modern Japanese, but prenasalised: a "b" would start like a m and finish like a b. This led to sounds shifting from voiceless to voiced when next to a nasal sound: see how in verb conjugation the suffixes -te and -ta shift to -de and -da after a nasal root yom- + -te > yonde. This sound change didn't apply to later loanwords from Chinese (eg the Kantou region), only to native words, which looks a lot like rendaku. The usual hypothesis is that in proto Japanese there was some kind of particle containing a nasal sound that bridged compound words (think of the way there's a de in the middle of most compounds in Romance languages like salle de bain for bathroom or perro de guardia for watchdog). That particle eventually eroded away but its effect on the following noun remained. So something like pana-no-pi > pana-n-bi > panabi > hanabi (the particle being "no" is tempting but speculative). By the time the influx of Chinese word happened the particle was already gone, with non-native examples of rendaku probably being created by analogy with the native ones. 
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Aug 23, 2022 11:43
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Interestingly, the Encyclopedia Eorzea backs up the village's treatment of Yugiri for wanting to fight the Garleans. The book strongly implies that any Raen au ra PCs are probably outcasts from their own homes for wanting to fight back and wound up in Eorzea, the last bastion against Garlean aggression.
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Aug 23, 2022 12:42
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The sidequest timing is definitely one of the things that makes Stormblood the 'least good' expansion in terms of pacing. Suisei is a very cool and pretty dungeon though, and the lore in the whole area is good. Yotsuyu's scene there is... a lot, yes. Blueberry Pancakes posted:I think one of the Moonfire events also had recolored Shisui glamour.
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Aug 23, 2022 13:38
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That otter is a little bastard, I'll have you know. Spoilers for a minigame I'm not entirely sure you care much about : wasted a couple days of my time trying to get all his triple triad card drops
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Aug 23, 2022 14:02
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Despite being an optional dungeon, Shisui being the source of Bikini Armor glams means that it's pretty much always got an active queue. Between that, the relative ease of the combat, and the chill vibes, it's a pretty solid dungeon to grind on while you still have jobs in that level range. And yeah, that particular scene of Yotsuyu is pretty iconic and makes clear what her deal is even moreso than her intro. You will never hate anything in this world more than Conan hates wizards, or more than Yotsuyu hates Domans.
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Aug 23, 2022 14:03
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Even with it being an optional dungeon, it's still part of the Leveling Roulette. That roulette isn't restricted to MSQ dungeons, after all.
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Aug 23, 2022 14:22
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Onean posted:Even with it being an optional dungeon, it's still part of the Leveling Roulette. That roulette isn't restricted to MSQ dungeons, after all. True, but people hard queue it more often than most dungeons, so you generally get into it faster / see it more often in roulettes.
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Aug 23, 2022 14:28
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As for Yotsuyu, to me maybe the most important takeaway from this scene is the confirmation that even as a collaborator who's risen high enough to be named viceroy over Doma, Yotsuyu's authority and power are still sharply limited by the Garleans. She's still not seen by them as an equal and is under pressure by the people holding her leash to get the job done or else. This scene says a lot about the interlocking chains of loyalty in Doman society, and Gosetsu's and Yotsuyu's complicated relationships with ideals and practices of loyalty. In my eyes, the questions of identity and loyalty are at the heart of Stormblood. What makes a nation-state a nation, or a state? What makes a people a people? And how do these questions and conflicts play out in the people caught up in this war? What, if any, loyalty do they owe to any given idea of nation, state, or people? I don't think it's an accident that these questions are at the philosophical heart of an expansion centered on Eorzea's equivalent of Central and East Asia. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 14:49
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Good job saving Gungan Padme
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Aug 23, 2022 15:17
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OhFunny posted:I shall be reading all further updates in Kronk's voice. Ilberd: Ah yes, the poison. The poison for Nanamo. The poison especially chosen to paralyze Nanamo. Nanamo's poison... ...That poison? Lolorito: YES! THAT POISON!
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Aug 23, 2022 16:19
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I feel like Yotsuyu and Grynewaht more or less have the Yzma and Kronk dynamic. It's just that Yotsuyu being extremely  isn't played for comedy.
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Aug 23, 2022 16:27
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:It's just that Yotsuyu being extremely One big area where I depart from goons in analyzing and responding to FF14 is that Yotsuyu almost certainly was not intentionally being played for comedy, but I personally read her as a comedic character. In all seriousness, to me she feels outright performative in her hatred of Doma and Domans. That she's being consciously over the top and melodramatic. She doesn't simply hate Domans, she wants to be seen hating Domans. She's making a deliberate show of her hatred and cruelty. As Sang pointed out in her introduction, her dress and appearance are all very obviously tailored to project an image of an evil empress. I'm not at all sure that this is how all of these scenes are meant to come across. In fact, I'd er on the side of saying that they're not and you're meant to take all of this at face value. But to me, personally, there's a theatricality to Yotsuyu's character and presentation that leads me to never being able to take her character all that seriously. She reminds me a lot of Karasu Redbeak from the ninja class stories in my feeling that she's consciously playing a part and deliberately projecting a carefully chosen image, playing to the cheap seats with her 'look at what a terrible villain I am!' display.
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Aug 23, 2022 16:34
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Cythereal posted:One big area where I depart from goons in analyzing and responding to FF14 is that Yotsuyu almost certainly was not intentionally being played for comedy, but I personally read her as a comedic character. My read on Yotsuyu so far is very much that she's projecting an image, but its not for anyone but herself. That contrast between presenting herself as the perfect courtly lady and her mannerisms, accent and attitude being the stark opposite of that stereotype along with her being a traitor and usurper all made me think that she's performing for an audience of one, playing the role she wanted to be when she was looking up from the gutters. I guess I'll find out if I was right when we go forward and learn more about her and what's motivating her
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Aug 23, 2022 16:44
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I certainly can read her as being performative, maybe melodramatic, but not at all comedic. It's a very particular image that she wants to present, but she intends to inhabit it completely, without the air of mixed seriousness that other characters may present when knowingly playing a "role." There is, perhaps, the inherent comedy of taking things to a particularly strained extreme, but that lacks the support of the overall atmosphere of those she inflicts that extreme upon.
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Aug 23, 2022 16:50
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Yotsuyu rules. Stormblood rules. The sidequest problem is definitely... a problem. And it's not a problem that will disappear, ever really. There are definitely stretches of Shadowbringers and Endwalker that literally run into the same problem of "the MSQ narrative is making this an urgent matter of life or death, but we still need to have side quests." So, unfortunately, don't expect that problem to ever stop.
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Aug 23, 2022 16:55
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I mean the easiest thing is to just ignore that they exist and do them/the ones that have banners later. I still haven't done most of the HWs /SB/ShB /EW ones and probably won't do them
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Aug 23, 2022 17:23
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So this wasn't something I was expecting with patch 6.2. So they added Duty Support to a bunch of HW dungeons and you run them with named NPCs. During the last Letter From The Producer they said they made some changes to some cutscenes around the dungeons because of it, I thought this was just stuff like changing the intro to The Aery final boss since I assume you won't protect Estinien since he'll be part of your party now or something. Turns out that since Alphinaud is the healer for The Vault, they've added him to The Cutscene afterwards, with newly recorded voice acting. https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1562108658812477442?t=i8Ee2gAUtMtXo6P-0XzRyA&s=19
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Aug 23, 2022 19:18
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:I mean the easiest thing is to just ignore that they exist and do them/the ones that have banners later. I still haven't done most of the HWs /SB/ShB /EW ones and probably won't do them I think that would make the Let's Play flow much worse if Sanguinia did the MSQ of a zone and then went back through to do the side quests.
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Aug 23, 2022 21:00
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OhFunny posted:I think that would make the Let's Play flow much worse if Sanguinia did the MSQ of a zone and then went back through to do the side quests. As with all things in this game, for me it's always about what feels right. Which is why I've harped so much on this point, this is the first time that the way sidequests were laid out pushed that feeling of "doing these still FEELS ok," to its breaking point. But I'll talk about that more in the next chapter when we wrap up the zone.
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Aug 23, 2022 21:08
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OhFunny posted:I think that would make the Let's Play flow much worse if Sanguinia did the MSQ of a zone and then went back through to do the side quests. Personally I don't think it would. Most of the side quests are not particularly (or at all) related to what is happening in the MSQ at the time, and just provide flavor and background for the town or society. So keeping the MSQ momentum up by skipping side quests when time sensitive stuff is happening, and then circling around to the side quests when there's an urgency lull, would both keep the excitement up when exciting things are happening, and then provide a breather with fluffy sidequests in-between story climaxes. But I don't mind seeing the sidequests as they come up either, so obviously Sanguina should do it how they want.
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Aug 23, 2022 21:12
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Shisui is good. Shisui outfits are good.
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Aug 23, 2022 21:55
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Sanguinia posted:The Kanji used for Doma are not pronounced "Doma," at all in Japanese. You would read them as Tame (Tah-May). They DO mean Many Agates/Onyx in Japanese though. I tried finding Kanji that could be read as Do and Ma but I kid you not there were like 30 options for each, and that's not even counting if I tried adding in a 'u' to make a long O sound. Some of the more amusing possibilities: Do Ma - Slow Horse Horse
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Aug 24, 2022 00:24
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I'm a pretty big fan of Anger Measles and Bird Cage Witch myself
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Aug 24, 2022 02:08
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Did not have time to do more than skim the update this morning before work, then was busy playing the patch, so just gonna drop this here (no spoilers up to where the LP is in the vid itself): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WEozPswBlI before I go to bed.
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Aug 24, 2022 06:30
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OhFunny posted:I think that would make the Let's Play flow much worse if Sanguinia did the MSQ of a zone and then went back through to do the side quests. I don't think the Sidequests don't need to be let's played at all for the most part, tbh.
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Aug 24, 2022 06:33
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Eh, I can get you (or other people, I'm not calling you out specifically) not caring about them, but there's plenty of others that are interested in them and the world building they offer. Particularly the longer chains which have more involved tales, even with as varying as their quality can be.
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Aug 24, 2022 06:43
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Yeah, I like hearing Sang's opinion on the small stories too, as long as they're willing to run through them.
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Aug 24, 2022 14:29
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