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Yeah, it's more that this motion is so utterly garbage that even the most partial chudge can't or won't act on it. There wasn't even a coherent request to be approved or denied, it was the legal equivalent of tweeting "DO SOMETHING!"
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Aug 23, 2022 21:18
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Well Trump thinks his posts on TruthSocial are legally binding so…
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Aug 23, 2022 21:20
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If, and that's a huge if, trump would ever see a prison cell, they would have to legit put him in some black site because the chuds would be constantly trying to storm the prison to break him out.
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Aug 23, 2022 21:31
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cr0y posted:If, and that's a huge if, trump would ever see a prison cell, they would have to legit put him in some black site because the chuds would be constantly trying to storm the prison to break him out. I'm fine with just making sure it is well guarded as bait to grant the wish of criminally insane chuds who come over to volunteer to be put into prison.
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Aug 23, 2022 21:34
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cr0y posted:If, and that's a huge if, trump would ever see a prison cell, they would have to legit put him in some black site because the chuds would be constantly trying to storm the prison to break him out. He 100% will get house arrest is my guess and that as you say is a big time if.
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Aug 23, 2022 21:35
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Wang posted:He 100% will get house arrest is my guess and that as you say is a big time if. In that case, I wonder if the massive crowds of MAGA red hats outside of Mar-a-Lago would stoke his ego enough to make his stay bearable, or if the fact that only the unwashed masses come to see him and have to stay in clumps outside and across the street would drive him insane. (Hopefully the latter.)
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Aug 23, 2022 21:38
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https://twitter.com/AP/status/1562131510383329280 Pelosi's husband sentenced to five days in jail for that DUI, though in reality he's been let go with the two days in jail he spent immediately after the arrest (2 days have been counted as "conduct credit" and the other day has been commuted to 8 hours of community service). Also fined about $7000, given 3 years of probation, 3 months of DUI class, and have an ignition interlock on his car. Should have stuck to white collar crimes, we don't punish politicians or their families for those.
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Aug 23, 2022 21:46
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That seems like a really strict sentence for a DUI. I had one back in college and I lost my license for 30 days, a day of community service and like a grand in court costs (no fines)
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Aug 23, 2022 21:51
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Xombie posted:I'm not giving you my personal details, but if someone is making $40,000 a year (with 2% annual income growth) with a loan balance of $45,000, a $10,000 forgiveness would decrease their total amount paid over a 25 year period by $26,455 dollars. Interesting numbers, thanks. That's right at the tipping point where the forgiveness does help. 40k yr 45->35k 78k total repayments -> 51k total repayments = 26k saved over 25 years 40k yr 40->30k 63k-41k = 22k saved 45k yr 45-35k 68-47 = 20k saved 45k yr 40->30k . 30k person wouldn't qualify thats for ibr for paye (so loans after 2011, presumably most borrowers are now on paye) 40k year 45->35k = no forgiveness . same with reducing it from 40 to 30. for someone with 35k debt , dropping to 25k debt, it'd be 51-38k repaid , so 13k savings one funny thing is the savings per month - 26k over 25 years is 85 bucks a month. the person who is making 40k year w/ 45k debt is paying 274/mo on ibr right now ,so the trump/biden pause of 30 months = just over 8k of forgiven payments. food for thought as for why student loan forgiveness should help people without loans, thats just a political question in general. bailing out homeowners, or people with credit card debt, or just sending out an equal check to everyone trump style are all various routes to getting people money. i prefer the latter (everyone gets a check)
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Aug 23, 2022 21:52
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I wanted to come back to this, when will we know real changes in outcomes? When these kids are adults, alternate metrics like suicide rates are stupid for k-5 . Longitudinal studies like the UW one are indicating a substantial increase in behavior problems like 50% of the kids experienced them. Allow me to come back to this: I do. A large portion of my friend group is teachers including special needs teachers. You made a statement that made it sound like you had data to make your argument stronger, which you did not have. If you have a good argument, you don't need to do that. Let the argument exist on it's merits. People disagree on this topic, with you, and feel strongly about it. Including people who observe children all day.
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Aug 23, 2022 21:59
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cr0y posted:That seems like a really strict sentence for a DUI. I had one back in college and I lost my license for 30 days, a day of community service and like a grand in court costs (no fines) It actually is. California's first offender program doesn't even require jail time or probation. Just fines, IID, loss of license, and a dui class. It seems like they tried to either make an example of him/show he didn't get special treatment, but also 5 days in prison is so low in the objective sense that it looks silly.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:00
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I'm also increasingly convinced the argument over remote school serves to distract from the real issue: education and healthcare probably should've been the first priorities in terms of making sure they were available and operating at a high level. But most of the world was like, "NOPE, I WANT RESTAURANTS AND TRAVEL, PLEASE AND THANK YOU!"Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It actually is. California's first offender program doesn't even require jail time or probation. Just fines, IID, loss of license, and a dui class. How certain are we it was a first offense?
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Aug 23, 2022 22:03
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Jaxyon posted:People disagree on this topic, with you, and feel strongly about it. Including people who observe children all day. I also am related to multiple educators and my son’s godmother is Special Ed educator. Look there is also an huge variation in the experience of this geographically. Are you in a red or a blue area?
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Aug 23, 2022 22:08
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PT6A posted:I'm also increasingly convinced the argument over remote school serves to distract from the real issue: education and healthcare probably should've been the first priorities in terms of making sure they were available and operating at a high level. But most of the world was like, "NOPE, I WANT RESTAURANTS AND TRAVEL, PLEASE AND THANK YOU!" I'm both in agreement with the idea that they should be first priority and just in total disagreement with that framing. The world didn't want restaurants and travel, policy makers did. They directly benefited from that while your average person seems to have become increasingly upset about how education and healthcare have suffered. You're remembering the demands of a small minority, anti maskers and people arguing for opening it all up and letting covid spread as bigger than they were because they seem to have gotten their way. But that doesn't mean that policy was backed by actual public support.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:14
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm both in agreement with the idea that they should be first priority and just in total disagreement with that framing. The world didn't want restaurants and travel, policy makers did. They directly benefited from that while your average person seems to have become increasingly upset about how education and healthcare have suffered. Do you have numbers to back this up?
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Aug 23, 2022 22:23
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm both in agreement with the idea that they should be first priority and just in total disagreement with that framing. The world didn't want restaurants and travel, policy makers did. They directly benefited from that while your average person seems to have become increasingly upset about how education and healthcare have suffered. I can see that point, too. But, to be honest, I think a lot of very normal, not inherently evil people wanted the trappings of "normal life" back because the policy-makers did an absolutely shite job of explaining to people the consequences of their actions. I think a lot of people didn't understand the degree to which just having, for example, indoor dining back would imperil the equitable delivery of education and healthcare. The communication was incredibly poor. EDIT: To take full responsibility for my past opinions, which I consider were incorrect now: I absolutely favoured greater restrictions than I now believe are necessary. I don't think we need many restrictions at all; I think we need high-quality masks wherever practicable, good ventilation, and people to stay the gently caress home when they're ill. We don't need to close things down or forbid people from things, we need to adjust for better ventilation and air filtering and play the odds by requiring people to wear masks wherever possible. PT6A fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 22:23
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PT6A posted:How certain are we it was a first offense? It's a misdemeanor DUI charge with no enhancements, so extremely likely it is either a first offense or the first offense in 10+ years.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:24
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I also am related to multiple educators and my son’s godmother is Special Ed educator. Los Angeles. They're in LAUSD, SDUSD, and some smaller districts. I wouldn't consider SDUSD solidly "blue" btw. Yes we both have a lot of Teacher Friends(tm). You don't need to overstate your case in order to argue a position.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:26
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Some quick mod thoughts: - Goons' lived experiences are welcome. - They are not incontrovertible large-scale evidence. - Don't be a jerk about them going either direction. I mean, I think my top priority in general is for goons to be nice to each other, but getting mad about each other's anecdotes goes downhill particularly quickly.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:29
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FlamingLiberal posted:Excuse me, this is Socialism (TM) the common complaint I see and hear most often is "it would lower standards" because so many more people would go to college. But there are (still) terrible for-profit schools, unaccredited schools, actual diploma mills from which you can buy advanced degrees, private schools with massive grade inflation that cater to the upper class, kids like Jared Kushner and Trump getting into said schools via donation, less obvious college admission bribery than the one exposed in 2019 and so on. Increasing the amount of resources on tertiary education, the amount of students and thus teachers etc wouldn't hurt standards, it would likely improve them. The issue is that it goes against the bullshit idea that the US is a meritocracy despite plenty of proof already existing that it isn't. Also, it can and should be done for technical school as well.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:33
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Cranappleberry posted:the common complaint I see and hear most often is "it would lower standards" because so many more people would go to college. That's how you know it's about exclusivity and class, instead of standards. Countries that have "free" taxpaid college have evaluation exams so educational standards aren't an issue. And the people complaining could use their high-standard degree to google that in about 30 seconds.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:35
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Jaxyon posted:Los Angeles. They're in LAUSD, SDUSD, and some smaller districts. I wouldn't consider SDUSD solidly "blue" btw. LA did so poorly on special education during the pandemic that a civil rights lawsuit was filled against that district and they just settled with OCR in April. My sister and brother in law are teachers in Florida. There was essentially no covid mitigation after the initial shut down. That killed older educators all across that state, it was real bad in Broward. It was all unnecessary.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:39
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It actually is. California's first offender program doesn't even require jail time or probation. Just fines, IID, loss of license, and a dui class. He crashed into another car and injured the driver
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Aug 23, 2022 22:48
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Bar Ran Dun posted:My sister and brother in law are teachers in Florida. There was essentially no covid mitigation after the initial shut down. That killed older educators all across that state, it was real bad in Broward.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:50
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Jaxyon posted:That's how you know it's about exclusivity and class, instead of standards. Another issue is the examination and examination prep industry. High scores on entrance exams do not necessarily translate to success in college or graduate-level coursework but the tests and their prep courses make a ton of money. I'm not disagreeing with the concept because grades and program difficulty are taken into account with other factors for graduate or professional education, but they can be circumvented (less and less, in the case of some professions but it still happens). There is also the issue with limited spots for certain professional degree programs and professional positions due to artificial scarcity. But this is getting away from the point of bachelor's, associate's or technical education. Exams that test general knowledge and the ability to follow directions can also be problematic, especially with the patchwork primary and secondary education system in the US. A problem that certainly isn't solved by more money alone (proof of this can be found in what happened with charter schools in Trenton, NJ with Zuckerberg inputting a ton of money and most of it going to consultants and businesses, rather than being spent on resources for students and teachers). Plenty of students who do decently to well on tests will still drop or be kicked out for failing to keep up with coursework and god forbid we throw good money away educating people!
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Aug 23, 2022 22:51
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:He crashed into another car and injured the driver Ah, that would make more sense for why it was a relatively harsh punishment for a misdemeanor DUI.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:52
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Cranappleberry posted:Another issue is the examination and examination prep industry. High scores on entrance exams do not necessarily translate to success in college or graduate-level coursework but the tests and their prep courses make a ton of money. Don't disagree with any of this. If we(USA) have free college based on exams there's definitely going to be a side industry about exam prep.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:54
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Gort posted:What are these, out of interest? Covered by others above but the most common is probably "i didn't do it, but I know who did *and* if i say anything that other dude will have me shot " After that, " anything i say will get quoted out of context to make me look bad" Edit: blah apologies didn't realize i was responding to a hundred page old post
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Aug 23, 2022 23:50
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The schools themselves also don't care what happens to the debt after they get the money. They aren't going to reduce prices on the basis that some of their students might go bankrupt later in life. No, what will make them reduce prices is the fact that lenders will stop treating it as a risk-free return. Same thing that happens every time a housing bubble pops. PT6A posted:Also, since it came up earlier in the thread: means testing the student loan relief is dumb as gently caress, and useless. The high earners who are getting student debt relief they "don't need" are also paying vastly more in taxes to support, among other things, the student loan relief. That's how society works. You are aware that student-loan forgiveness isn't particularly progressive, right? Wharton posted:Between 69 and 73 percent of the debt forgiven accrues to households in the top 60 percent of the income distribution. Whether $10,000 or $50,000 in forgiveness is announced tomorrow, and regardless of whether it's means-tested as proposed, more benefits will accrue to the top 20% than the bottom 20%. edit: It's still regressive, but not as regressive as I said. tagesschau fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 00:35
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Ah, that would make more sense for why it was a relatively harsh punishment for a misdemeanor DUI. I'm surprised you didn't realize that, given that I remember seeing you post about the charges as a news item ITT a few weeks ago and noticing that you'd originally typed "nobody was hurt" in your summary. I typed a response correcting this inaccuracy, but refreshed the thread after typing it to be sure I wasn't making a redundant only to find that you'd edited your summary to say "nobody was killed." I had assumed that you'd just had time to more thoroughly read the article in the tweet you linked, which said outright that prosecutors were filing charges because the other driver in the collision had been injured as a result of Paul Pelosi's drunk driving, but I guess I was mistaken. At least you are aware now Personally I don't buy the idea that they're treating him unduly harsh for it, especially since they didn't actually check his BAC until over two hours after the crash and the incident report describes someone who is visibly impaired, with the only thing really saving him from vehicular manslaughter is good luck on the part of the driver he injured. You'd think a guy who killed his own brother in car accident would have more respect for how dangerous they are and not drive while sloshed, but I guess that was like 60 years ago
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Aug 24, 2022 00:37
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tagesschau posted:No, what will make them reduce prices is the fact that lenders will stop treating it as a risk-free return. Same thing that happens every time a housing bubble pops. The federal government gives out almost all student loans now. The feds aren't going to start credit checking or evaluating what major your are picking when they issue student loans. tagesschau posted:Whether $10,000 or $50,000 in forgiveness is announced tomorrow, and regardless of whether it's means-tested as proposed, more benefits will accrue to the top 10% than the bottom 20%. Your own link says that isn't the case if they have an income cap. And we know they are definitely going to have an income cap. It does benefit people richer than average more than people poorer than average, but in no scenario does the top 10% benefit more than the bottom 20% with the income cap.  
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Aug 24, 2022 00:46
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cr0y posted:That seems like a really strict sentence for a DUI. I had one back in college and I lost my license for 30 days, a day of community service and like a grand in court costs (no fines) Wow really? I had to take driver re education in MA a couple of times for non alcohol related offenses and everyone in there for DUI (first offenses)said fines, court costs, lawyer etc. all together cost them about $10k.
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Aug 24, 2022 00:49
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:I'm surprised you didn't realize that, given that I remember seeing you post about the charges as a news item ITT a few weeks ago and noticing that you'd originally typed "nobody was hurt" in your summary. I typed a response correcting this inaccuracy, but refreshed the thread after typing it to be sure I wasn't making a redundant only to find that you'd edited your summary to say "nobody was killed." I had assumed that you'd just had time to more thoroughly read the article in the tweet you linked, which said outright that prosecutors were filing charges because the other driver in the collision had been injured as a result of Paul Pelosi's drunk driving, but I guess I was mistaken. At least you are aware now It was a misdemeanor DUI, which means the injuries were likely minor and according to the WaPo the other driver was walking around at the accident and declined medical treatment. It is a pretty high sentence for a plea deal on a misdemeanor DUI charge in California that is FOP-eligible. California has significantly liberalized their DUI laws and you can still avoid any mandatory jail time at all up to the third offense. You're right that he would be majorly boned if he had killed the other driver. But, he would have been charged with felony DUI if there was any significant injury. quote:Personally I don't buy the idea that they're treating him unduly harsh for it I don't think they are treating him unduly harsh, but it is definitely higher than the average FOP DUI case with a plea. My jurisdiction has harsher mandatory sentences than California and the average FOP penalty is an IID installation, ~$2,000 in fines and court costs, and a mandatory 6-week DUI course (that the judge can optionally waive the costs for) with no jail time or probation. The cost of the IID installation and class is usually another $1k or so, for a total financial cost of around $3k to $3.5k.
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Aug 24, 2022 01:02
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Your own link says that isn't the case if they have an income cap. 14.39% (what the top 20% gets) is a larger number than 11.63% (what the bottom 20% gets). edit: It's still regressive, but not as regressive as I said. tagesschau fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 01:07
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tagesschau posted:14.39% (what the top 10% gets) is a larger number than 11.63% (what the bottom 20% gets). (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 24, 2022 01:10
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tagesschau posted:14.39% (what the top 10% gets) is a larger number than 11.63% (what the bottom 20% gets). The 80th to 90th percentile is not the top 10%. The rows above that are the top 10%. 90th percentile to 100th percentile is 2.51% of the total.
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Aug 24, 2022 01:12
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According to that graphic the top 10% get 2.51% and the bottom 20% get 11.63%, what am I missing that is making it say the top 10% get more?
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Aug 24, 2022 01:13
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The 80th to 90th percentile is not the top 10%. Whoops, I will edit. Not that giving out more to the top quintile than the bottom quintile is something to celebrate as progressive. It is also worth noting that the numbers favor high earners even more if you look at people between 25 and 35.
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Aug 24, 2022 01:16
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tagesschau posted:Whoops, I will edit. Not that giving out more to the top quintile than the bottom quintile something to celebrate as progressive. It is also worth noting that the numbers favor high earners even more if you look at people between 25 and 35. There's also the supposed "bonus" forgiveness for people on the lower end, but we don't know how much or how expansive that will actually be. But, yeah, student loan debt forgiveness only impacts about 12% of the population and that population is richer than average. Even with the income cap, it favors people who make slightly more than average. But, not wildly so. The group getting the largest benefit will be people who earn about the exact median income and those in the 10% percentile above that.
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Aug 24, 2022 01:20
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It also totally ignores the fact that people at the lower end are more likely to have had to borrow significantly more to cover expenses in school.
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