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A quick Google search is failing me here: does the 10k debt cancellation also apply to graduate programs? Are there any special restrictions if it does? Edit: Just saw that it applies to graduate programs as well. small butter fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 19:30
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Chieves posted:I'm also an idiot and trying to digest this. Do public employees count as public school teachers? This will be huge for a large group of friends either way. They do, but public school teachers have always been eligible for PSLF, so they have always had an option to get them forgiven after 10 years.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:31
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small butter posted:A quick Google search is failing me here: does the 10k debt cancellation also apply to graduate programs? Are there any special restrictions if it does? Parent+ and Grad loans both count for the loan forgiveness. Grad loans don't qualify for the new loan type that caps payments at 5% of your discretionary income. They get a cap of 10% instead.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:33
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California just banned the sale of gasoline powered cars by 2035. Going to be interesting to see if there is still a weird culture war in 12 years with people driving across the country to buy their ICE cars to bring home to California and register. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1562488707952742401
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Aug 24, 2022 19:43
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It'll be funny when all the gas guzzler truck dealerships open right on the Nevada and Arizona borders like casinos and weed shops
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Aug 24, 2022 19:47
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:California just banned the sale of gasoline powered cars by 2035. About to see some combination "Gunship/ICE Pickup truck" shops popping up.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:48
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So because this is an executive order, can some of the benefits be stopped by a Republican president? For example, the 5% cap and other new terms of the current and future debt - can that be brought back to 10% and some of the other terms stripped? I realize that this EO is popular among most people so maybe even a Republican president won't do this, but it's possible, right?
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Aug 24, 2022 19:48
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I'm not sure if I had Pell grants or not (the FSA site is so slow right now), but if that's the case (and if it applies to other servicers like AES and Navient), I think I may have just had 80% of my debt wiped. Tell me there's no catastrophic catch to this. Please.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:49
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small butter posted:So because this is an executive order, can some of the benefits be stopped by a Republican president? For example, the 5% cap and other new terms of the current and future debt - can that be brought back to 10% and some of the other terms stripped? I realize that this EO is popular among most people so maybe even a Republican president won't do this, but it's possible, right? They may have legal issues voiding the existing loan contracts, but yes, they could decide to stop issuing the new income-based loan types to new borrowers if they wanted.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:53
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Youth Decay posted:They really got nothing for this do they? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQrdKtPJxI0
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Aug 24, 2022 19:53
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Framboise posted:I'm not sure if I had Pell grants or not (the FSA site is so slow right now), but if that's the case (and if it applies to other servicers like AES and Navient), I think I may have just had 80% of my debt wiped. As long as your loans are not private and you didn't make over $125k/$250k in 2020 and 2021, then there's not a catch for the forgiveness part. You might have to go online if you want to change your existing loan to the new one capped at 5% of your discretionary income, but they haven't clarified exactly how/when you can switch yet.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:55
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Whichever DOJ/DOE staff attorney came up with this legal justification needs a bonus or a raise for their creativity. I remember way back early in the term when Biden was saying he would have his people study it to see whether he had the power to do this, and how some people were nervous that maybe.... probably.... but there'd be a fight and its not certain, and how lawyers laid out all the difficulties and how courts might strike it down, and this board was just in general angry or sad that he wouldn't just ram it through immediately and then just see what happens. I'm guessing his legal advisors came back and told him that the way everyone else was suggesting would be difficult, but there was this other "one weird trick" rarely-used loan forgiveness power apparently given to the president that was extremely broad and sweeping from 9/11 laws that would probably be bulletproof, so they didn't give anyone any warning or heads up and just quietly prepared for this other legal route edit: Biden may have also wanted to wait until after reconciliation was signed to not let Manchin know this was coming. Otherwise since he seemed to be so obsessed with deficit reduction, he might have freaked out about this and demanded more cuts to the bill. Rigel fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 20:05
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Rigel posted:edit: Biden may have also wanted to wait until after reconciliation was signed to not let Manchin know this was coming. Otherwise since he seemed to be so obsessed with deficit reduction, he might have freaked out about this and demanded more cuts to the bill. Using manchin to juke republicans on the CHIPS act before turning around and passing IRA and then casting aside manchin and pushing through student loan forgiveness seems good?
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Aug 24, 2022 20:27
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Parent+ and Grad loans both count for the loan forgiveness. Excuse me for clarifying (phone posting at work) but would that qualification be a $10k on TOP of undergrad loans, or just $10k total, undergrad AND grad?
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Aug 24, 2022 20:28
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Yiggy posted:Using manchin to juke republicans on the CHIPS act before turning around and passing IRA and then casting aside manchin and pushing through student loan forgiveness seems good? Diamond Joe is back in town, my friends He just needs to bring back his biting dog
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Aug 24, 2022 20:28
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Rampant Dwickery posted:Excuse me for clarifying (phone posting at work) but would that qualification be a $10k on TOP of undergrad loans, or just $10k total, undergrad AND grad? $10k total (or $20k if you received a Pell Grant/low-income FAFSA aid). Not for each one.
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Aug 24, 2022 20:30
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OK so I know a student who has student loan debt of his own - and his parents also took out Parent PLUS loans. Can the student claim the $10K exemption & the parent also claim one? (not me: My wife & I arranged it so my son had less than $15K of loan debt; this may entirely erase what's left!)
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Aug 24, 2022 20:30
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Whichever DOJ/DOE staff attorney came up with this legal justification needs a bonus or a raise for their creativity. Out of curiosity, are you not allowed to cite multiple laws/rulings as the basis of an act like this? It has to be either the Higher Ed Act or this post-9/11 law, but not both?
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Aug 24, 2022 20:30
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Eric Cantonese posted:I'm sorry if this is a "do your own homework" question, but does anyone have a link I can share about how student loan forgiveness isn't just an unjustified gimme to people who don't work? Here's an article that might help: The Aging Student Debtors of America
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Aug 24, 2022 20:31
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Baronash posted:Out of curiosity, are you not allowed to cite multiple laws/rulings as the basis of an act like this? It has to be either the Higher Ed Act or this post-9/11 law, but not both? You can. It's just funny that the Higher Ed act was the place where all of the debate was over this authority. If they sidestepped it entirely based on this post-9/11 emergency rule, then it is needlessly complicated, but also funny that they are skipping the entire debate about the Higher Ed act entirely. Legal scholars will just have to wonder forever whether a court would have bought the argument or not.
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Aug 24, 2022 20:36
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Probably there should be a thread for all the student loan questions.
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Aug 24, 2022 20:38
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PainterofCrap posted:OK so I know a student who has student loan debt of his own - and his parents also took out Parent PLUS loans. That is a great question. They haven't put out the detailed fact sheet yet, but given that Parent PLUS loans are specifically included, are issued directly to the parents, and the forgiveness is per borrower, I think it likely does apply to both if the other standard loan is in the student's name/SS# exclusively.
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Aug 24, 2022 20:39
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Jaxyon posted:Probably there should be a thread for all the student loan questions. If someone wants to make one that would be fine. I'll sticky it too. I imagine that once all the details are out, that there won't be a ton of new news/current events to talk about regarding it, so a questions thread could be useful. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 20:41
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Chieves posted:I'm also an idiot and trying to digest this. Do public employees count as public school teachers? This will be huge for a large group of friends either way. Hear is the legislation: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/34/685.219 Government employee means an individual who is employed by a local, State, Federal, or Tribal government, but does not include a member of the U.S. Congress.
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Aug 24, 2022 20:50
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Framboise posted:I'm not sure if I had Pell grants or not (the FSA site is so slow right now), but if that's the case (and if it applies to other servicers like AES and Navient), I think I may have just had 80% of my debt wiped. The catch is that you have to admit that Biden has a significant positive impact on your life :vv: Honestly, for all that we talk of how more could be done, how more needs to happen, and argue about means testing... It's been really nice to see people online talking about "Holy poo poo, my student debt is gone/significantly reduced, just like that". A Good Thing happened. 
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Aug 24, 2022 20:51
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Rigel posted:I remember way back early in the term when Biden was saying he would have his people study it to see whether he had the power to do this, and how some people were nervous that maybe.... probably.... but there'd be a fight and its not certain, and how lawyers laid out all the difficulties and how courts might strike it down, and this board was just in general angry or sad that he wouldn't just ram it through immediately and then just see what happens. Rough timeline: Early in the Biden administration, Pelosi starts saying in strong terms that Biden doesn't have the authority under the statute in question to forgive student debts en masse, while Schumer says with equal vigor he does and wants him to forgive 50k of it. Biden himself said at one point that he was ready to do 10k but he didn't think he had authority for 50k (lol c'mon), but the administration's general stance is that they're looking at it but would rather something come from Congress. Then Ron Klain (Biden's Chief of Staff) says in an interview with Politico in late March 2021 that Biden asked his Secretary of Education to prep a memo on it, and that he hoped it would be available in a few weeks. That memo is never released, but a heavily redacted draft submitted to the Secretary from April 5 2021 comes up via a FOIA request from an outfit called the Debt Collective. Based on the little we get in terms of their internal correspondence, it does appear that the request didn't actually exist before the interview, or at least the people working on the memo didn't know about it beforehand. The draft and any subsequent revisions stay buried until, apparently, now. If anyone wants to do a cross comparison, the current memo is here (link via that tweet thread earlier) and the memo's redacted precursor from last April is here. Of particular note, the prior disclosure includes a redaction screwup making it look like they were going to lean on the same rationale the current one primarily goes with (Covid national emergency). Insofar as there's a one weird trick (this memo doesn't say that, it goes further by completely rejecting the DeVos memo), it's the same one that was in consideration last year. My pet conspiracy theory was that the administration saw the draft and planned to bury the memo for a few months, declare victory over Covid, and then that's their explanation for walking back the promise and punting to Congress. Given that the current memo rejects the one from the DeVos era in much stronger terms than I thought the redacted memo had, it disconfirms that idea as much as it confirms it, so I guess that one stays unfalsifiable fanfic unless we see something else. eviltastic fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 20:52
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:California just banned the sale of gasoline powered cars by 2035. I dont think it will be a weird culture war thing so much as a survival thing for a lot of people. Even in 13 years new and lightly used cars will still probably be impossibly expensive for a lot of people and the only option for affordable transportation will be older ICE cars. So I'm sure there's going to be a huge market for them in neighboring states like AZ that will probably never ban ICE cars.
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Aug 24, 2022 21:08
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Charliegrs posted:I dont think it will be a weird culture war thing so much as a survival thing for a lot of people. Even in 13 years new and lightly used cars will still probably be impossibly expensive for a lot of people and the only option for affordable transportation will be older ICE cars. So I'm sure there's going to be a huge market for them in neighboring states like AZ that will probably never ban ICE cars. i mean, the current car market is very abnormal and hosed in a way that hopefully is going to revert back to normal in less than 13 years. but note that CA is banning new ICE cars in 2035 - used will still be fine (for a while, until that loophole is abused too much)
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Aug 24, 2022 21:17
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I’m assuming it wasn’t enough to simply qualify for a Pell Grant, and people actually would have had to receive them.
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Aug 24, 2022 21:31
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Charliegrs posted:I dont think it will be a weird culture war thing so much as a survival thing for a lot of people. Even in 13 years new and lightly used cars will still probably be impossibly expensive for a lot of people and the only option for affordable transportation will be older ICE cars. So I'm sure there's going to be a huge market for them in neighboring states like AZ that will probably never ban ICE cars. As worded in the headline, it may be the case that California will mandate all *new* cars be zero emissions but will allow ongoing resale of *used* ICE cars. idk if this is the case and I'm not going to try to dig up the exact wording of the law to puzzle it out.
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Aug 24, 2022 21:40
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projecthalaxy posted:It'll be funny when all the gas guzzler truck dealerships open right on the Nevada and Arizona borders like casinos and weed shops still gotta register them in CA and they could jack up the cost of that a lot
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Aug 24, 2022 21:41
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The Lord of Hats posted:The catch is that you have to admit that Biden has a significant positive impact on your life :vv: It is a bit bamboozling to have to say that Joe Biden, of all people, is actually doing a socialism, small as it may be for so many people. For me though, this kind of change is enormous. That is, if I can figure out if I had Pell grants or not, I still can't get into the loving site. It is also a thing that makes Republicans REALLY REALLY mad. It's a bonus!
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Aug 24, 2022 21:47
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In non-student loan news, it seems that MTG was swatted at her home in Georgia: https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1562422730481598464 https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house/marjorie-taylor-greene-swatted The suspect (according to some articles) was a "trans activist" and the investigation is ongoing.
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Aug 24, 2022 21:59
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:California just banned the sale of gasoline powered cars by 2035. Yeah, Washington State https://twitter.com/GovInslee/status/1510034015717236740?s=20&t=0mfUWJor_S5Ksp1nljsmHA https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/wa-sets-2030-goal-to-phase-out-gas-cars/ Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 22:02
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IT BURNS posted:In non-student loan news, it seems that MTG was swatted at her home in Georgia: What are the odds that she tried to swat someone else and gave her own address by accident?
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Aug 24, 2022 22:02
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Solkanar512 posted:Yeah, Washington State banned the sale, purchase or registration of gas powered cars with a model year of 2030 or later several months ago. So the registration loophole won't even be an issue. I only mention this because of my continued annoyance at media like the NY Times continually ignoring what places outside California and the Northeast (and their associated diner safaris) are doing. These were also the same folks that were busy giving Cuomo hand jobs in spring of 2022 while Inslee was actually managing to send spare vents and open up hospital beds to those out of state. It doesn't look like WA actually required it, though. quote:The goal of selling exclusively electric vehicles in eight years is just that: a goal. The new language is not a mandate, as advocates had initially hoped for in 2017. So, the NYT is correct that California is currently the only government to mandate 0 emission vehicles sales.
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Aug 24, 2022 22:04
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Rigel posted:edit: Biden may have also wanted to wait until after reconciliation was signed to not let Manchin know this was coming. Otherwise since he seemed to be so obsessed with deficit reduction, he might have freaked out about this and demanded more cuts to the bill. An interesting point; Manchin's twitter is silent on the student loan forgiveness, and conservative media is trying to hit him over it. Manchin has previously and publicly promoted "simplifying" student loan activity and was involved in legislation to require further disclosures/transparency on the terms of student loans.
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Aug 24, 2022 22:06
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I, for one, welcome our new socialist overlord, Joe Biden. Seriously though. I have just caught up on this thread. I don't have student loans and $10,000 would be lifechanging for me, but I think it is amazing that so many people are going to recieve some form of help in this capitalist hell hole. The people that are going to be angry that some people have had some debt forgiven are already angry and probably think those people are bad because of the media they consume so its probably better to just write them off. I say "Cheers" to all those that are helped by this EO. It may be small but it is better than nothing.
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Aug 24, 2022 22:08
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So how royally pissed off is the debt forgiveness going to make people that paid their poo poo off before the pandemic? That's where the real outrage is going to come from.
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Aug 24, 2022 22:11
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get ready for millions of "opinion" articles attacking the school loan debt relief.  this will be followed by every chud screaming about it in every grocery store line. :ohwell:
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