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leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

JamesKPolk posted:

I was kinda sorta actively looking for those kinds of jobs in 2018-19 and it didn't seem like Oregon was there... yet. But I'm in Portland and it's gonna happen here first, and actually I talked to a recruiter about something like that in Grand Rapids a year-ish ago (I don't think I faked the "I'd totally move!" hard enough for a recommendation).

I hear ya, I guess I'm more concerned how it looks wrt forward progress than culture fit type stuff? Like I can call it production tech or cultivation tech or whatever but at the end of the day its still 'left the computer-toucher jobs for the plant-toucher jobs'

Though landing one where that was actually an asset would be sick as hell

I'd probably rate weed shops up there with seeing "MindGeek" on a resume. I might ask some questions, but I wouldn't rate you negatively because of it.

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tays revenge
Aug 29, 2009

JamesKPolk posted:

Like, I can code, I want to make money doing it, how do I connect myself to the other side of that equation?

Get linkedin, apply to jobs and get hounded by recruiters at first, then its gravy train until retirement or civ collapses. Either way learn how to split large logs even without a splitting wedge. Also the boot camps at the end of the course typically set everything up with a large corporation and do a sort of gauntlet and half of the juniors get hired. Interview well, don't be a weirdo, please don't be a weirdo, and never talk about anything unless you are fully confident, people usually drill down to make sure you aren't full of poo poo.

Sign
Jul 18, 2003

Thirst Mutilator posted:

At every point in the process. I had 10 leads

The process, especially at lower levels, is highly random. Getting to the 'on site' part 40% of the time is actually doing well.

asur
Dec 28, 2012
The chance of passing an onsite is going to be low as well. I'd estimate average is around 25% with potentially down to 10% for FAANG like companies.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Yeah grind that leetcode yo

tays revenge
Aug 29, 2009

Hadlock posted:

Yeah grind that leetcode yo

That is a pretty good site for learning specific problem solving, I've never been lucky enough to get a 'whiteboarding' question that matched any of the practice ones though. I never saw much value in those in the first place, when I interview candidates I go a different route. Instead i prefer something like "here is my problem, tell me how you solve this but walking me through the planning phase" or something like that. Granted green field isn't typical when starting a new job so I see the other side as well on that one.

Thirst Mutilator
Dec 13, 2008

Sign posted:

The process, especially at lower levels, is highly random. Getting to the 'on site' part 40% of the time is actually doing well.

I've felt that way the whole way through this process, but my dad (who DOES work in tech, albeit management and almost exclusively at financial institutions, NOT fintech) was tut-tutting me for not making it to the on-sites more frequently ("I've NEVER not made it to an onsite"). I probably could have found some good research/data that aligned with my experience, but my work gap + being out of practice was a big confounding factor. Also could have chased down more leads and been more diligent about keeping track about how/when I was bounced at each point though - that might have been convincing enough.


tays revenge posted:

That is a pretty good site for learning specific problem solving, I've never been lucky enough to get a 'whiteboarding' question that matched any of the practice ones though. I never saw much value in those in the first place, when I interview candidates I go a different route. Instead i prefer something like "here is my problem, tell me how you solve this but walking me through the planning phase" or something like that. Granted green field isn't typical when starting a new job so I see the other side as well on that one.

It might have just been my experience/level (technically 5yrs, on the fringe of Senior with recruiters I was speaking to) this time around, but open ended green field implementations (design doc or coding prompt) were way more common in both technical screens and on-sites than Leetcode style problems. I don't know that I'd recommend it unconditionally, but I would have benefited from building tiny CRUD apps and familiarizing myself with building TCP applications in my interviewing language of choice before this round.

bigperm
Jul 10, 2001
some obscure reference
First time I've come across this. Can't even apply to this job from chrome on linux, but IE11 on windows is fine.

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
I found a pizza delivery website that wouldn't work on FreeBSD. The JS error message explained that it's not one of the expected operating systems in their (apparently homegrown) analytics suite, so the whole thing just stops responding.

tays revenge
Aug 29, 2009

bigperm posted:

First time I've come across this. Can't even apply to this job from chrome on linux, but IE11 on windows is fine.


you're fired

bigperm
Jul 10, 2001
some obscure reference

tays revenge posted:

you're fired

I spoofed the user-agent.

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

had a technical interview for a junior dev position, not sure how i did.

there were just 2 questions: one where i had to call an API and process a response to a json and one where i had to use regexp to get some data from a long string. i kind of botched the first one, i stupidly used a JS callback (i was on autopilot since all of the API calls i'd written so far have been in .js files, since i've only been writing them as part of event listeners) but it was a ruby file, that was pretty stupid. they asked me some more questions about it though and i managed to fix and optimize my code after i'd corrected my mistake

i wrote the regexp without looking at rubular and fixed the second question in under a minute. they said that overall i came up with the answers faster than some of their senior applicants and i think i did a decent job of narrating my own thought process. this is at a pretty big company so i hope i'll get it

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Shibawanko posted:

had a technical interview for a junior dev position, not sure how i did.

there were just 2 questions: one where i had to call an API and process a response to a json and one where i had to use regexp to get some data from a long string. i kind of botched the first one, i stupidly used a JS callback (i was on autopilot since all of the API calls i'd written so far have been in .js files, since i've only been writing them as part of event listeners) but it was a ruby file, that was pretty stupid. they asked me some more questions about it though and i managed to fix and optimize my code after i'd corrected my mistake

i wrote the regexp without looking at rubular and fixed the second question in under a minute. they said that overall i came up with the answers faster than some of their senior applicants and i think i did a decent job of narrating my own thought process. this is at a pretty big company so i hope i'll get it

This is Very Positive Feedback. Good luck, and remember to follow up with your recruiter on status after a week or after the date they said they'd follow up.

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


How plausible is it to get a job doing backend/non-JS programming for someone who has been doing mostly stats/data analysis/"data science" work after getting a CS major as undergrad? Most of the cases of amateurs breaking into software development seem to me to be web development and javascript heavy which I really have no interest in. Undergrad was at an OK state school, grades were OK (3.2) finished about 5 years ago but for various reasons didn't line up a job in the field out of school and ended up doing this instead. How would you proceed from here? Is leetcode algorithm stuff important at this level, what to put in a portfolio? I don't have a good idea of what exactly I want to be doing besides not web dev/in a strongly typed language. Mobile development/ios or android seems interesting. Just make a portfolio of CRUD apps and other random projects, and try to do something in the Android or iPhone SDKs? And finally, is there really a hiring apocalypse at the moment/near/medium term future for the field?

I guess my question is as much to do with the structure of the field as getting a job. Is it plausible to avoid web dev and javascript? Or do I not know what I'm talking about?

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Aug 13, 2022

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

leper khan posted:

This is Very Positive Feedback. Good luck, and remember to follow up with your recruiter on status after a week or after the date they said they'd follow up.

thanks, looks like i got the job, just have one more talk with the team leader

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
Avoiding JS is totally possible for someone with a CS degree. If webdev means browser code, a backend role will protect you from that. In most business settings, HTTP is inevitable, but it's not a problem in the same way as things that interact with the DOM.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Have you thought at all about embedded systems? That's generally a pretty robust job market, there's no webdev involved, and it'd be relatively easy to transition into a backend role later. You can get started with a Raspberry Pi or Arduino.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

icantfindaname posted:

How plausible is it to get a job doing backend/non-JS programming for someone who has been doing mostly stats/data analysis/"data science" work after getting a CS major as undergrad? Most of the cases of amateurs breaking into software development seem to me to be web development and javascript heavy which I really have no interest in. Undergrad was at an OK state school, grades were OK (3.2) finished about 5 years ago but for various reasons didn't line up a job in the field out of school and ended up doing this instead. How would you proceed from here? Is leetcode algorithm stuff important at this level, what to put in a portfolio? I don't have a good idea of what exactly I want to be doing besides not web dev/in a strongly typed language. Mobile development/ios or android seems interesting. Just make a portfolio of CRUD apps and other random projects, and try to do something in the Android or iPhone SDKs? And finally, is there really a hiring apocalypse at the moment/near/medium term future for the field?

I guess my question is as much to do with the structure of the field as getting a job. Is it plausible to avoid web dev and javascript? Or do I not know what I'm talking about?

Just practice leetcode in your language of choice.

Hiring has slowed, but there's still more open roles than qualified people. Mostly just orgs not pursuing as much growth due to bad terms on financing.

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

how do you build a portfolio as a backend oriented guy with no aesthetic sense? i can build CRUD apps but my wardrobe consists of white tshirts and i basically want every website to look like wikipedia, i do like messing around with trchnical frontend but i dont know how to make things "pretty" to a general audience. having absolutely no sense of visual design makes it a lot harder to present stuff

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Shibawanko posted:

how do you build a portfolio as a backend oriented guy with no aesthetic sense? i can build CRUD apps but my wardrobe consists of white tshirts and i basically want every website to look like wikipedia, i do like messing around with trchnical frontend but i dont know how to make things "pretty" to a general audience. having absolutely no sense of visual design makes it a lot harder to present stuff

If you're going for backend roles there should be no need for a visual portfolio. Honestly with relevant qualifications or experience on your CV there's no need for any publicly visible work, although if you have neither I can see how it might help. GitHub projects or contributions are probably the equivalent though.

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


ultrafilter posted:

Have you thought at all about embedded systems? That's generally a pretty robust job market, there's no webdev involved, and it'd be relatively easy to transition into a backend role later. You can get started with a Raspberry Pi or Arduino.

I feel like that is more intimidating. Does that require like an electrical engineering background? It would be mostly C based system programming type stuff right?

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

icantfindaname posted:

I feel like that is more intimidating. Does that require like an electrical engineering background? It would be mostly C based system programming type stuff right?

Raspberry pi is a pretty performant arm based computer. Has over a gig of ram and runs Linux.

Scaling down from that there's microcontrollers that would require C [or c++, rust, etc].

Neither require electrical engineering, though those roles obviously also exist in embedded.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

icantfindaname posted:

I feel like that is more intimidating. Does that require like an electrical engineering background? It would be mostly C based system programming type stuff right?

I don't know if embedded is right for you, and I can't say a lot about the entry level embedded job market in general, but I do embedded so here's what I can say:

There's a spectrum of embedded ranging from the bare-metal end of writing code that directly interfaces with microcontroller peripherals and has no built in threading. Then there's the "lovely computer" end where you're running on embedded Linux with tons of RAM. Maybe you could put phone apps into this category, but that's really become a different beast. In between the extremes is a range of systems like FreeRTOS or Zephyr, which provide mutexes and threading but not much else. In all cases, you want to write code more efficiently and won't necessarily have many libraries or tons of RAM to work with, and the systems will generally be tightly constrained to finite hardware and processors.

Being able to read a schematic is pretty useful, but not crucial, and if you come from a CS background people shouldn't expect it. My embedded systems are bare metal, so the big questions I ask entry level folks are: What communication protocols are you familiar with (simple stuff like I2C, UART, SPI), How have you interfaced with MCU peripherals (directly accessing registers is great, using drivers is ok), have you ever used interrupts and what are their pros and cons, and what do you know about DMAs. Places that focus on more powerful systems like the Raspberry Pi may get into more OS specific questions.

I program in C, tons of places do, larger places tend to prefer C++, but its not clear to me how many of the C++ libraries they use now. Rust is a beautiful dream, but I've only seen it once as a nice-to-have in a job posting.

AlphaKeny1
Feb 17, 2006

I'm scheduling an onsite right now that should have a system design interview and was wondering if anyone had tips and what to study. I've never had to do one before, but I think I understand the basics like communicate my thoughts, ask plenty of questions to get constraints, weigh tradeoffs, talk in detail about limitations and implementation, write out your API methods, draw diagrams, etc. But I've mostly been doing front end the past few years and haven't touched any back end lately so if you ask me to draw up an entity relation or actually weigh the tradeoffs in depth I would be super rusty and I hardly know a lot of technologies outside the front end nowadays.

I do have a copy of Designing Data-Intensive Applications but realistically how far can I get with that within 2-3 weeks on top of continuing practicing JS and leetcode and juggling a full time job.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

AlphaKeny1 posted:

I'm scheduling an onsite right now that should have a system design interview and was wondering if anyone had tips and what to study. I've never had to do one before, but I think I understand the basics like communicate my thoughts, ask plenty of questions to get constraints, weigh tradeoffs, talk in detail about limitations and implementation, write out your API methods, draw diagrams, etc. But I've mostly been doing front end the past few years and haven't touched any back end lately so if you ask me to draw up an entity relation or actually weigh the tradeoffs in depth I would be super rusty and I hardly know a lot of technologies outside the front end nowadays.

I do have a copy of Designing Data-Intensive Applications but realistically how far can I get with that within 2-3 weeks on top of continuing practicing JS and leetcode and juggling a full time job.

https://www.amazon.com/System-Design-Interview-insiders-Second/dp/B08CMF2CQF

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon

AlphaKeny1 posted:

I'm scheduling an onsite right now that should have a system design interview and was wondering if anyone had tips and what to study. I've never had to do one before, but I think I understand the basics like communicate my thoughts, ask plenty of questions to get constraints, weigh tradeoffs, talk in detail about limitations and implementation, write out your API methods, draw diagrams, etc. But I've mostly been doing front end the past few years and haven't touched any back end lately so if you ask me to draw up an entity relation or actually weigh the tradeoffs in depth I would be super rusty and I hardly know a lot of technologies outside the front end nowadays.

I do have a copy of Designing Data-Intensive Applications but realistically how far can I get with that within 2-3 weeks on top of continuing practicing JS and leetcode and juggling a full time job.

Since you’re in the newbie thread I’m assuming you’re still very early in your career, so don’t worry too much about Designing Data Intensive Applications. Like, if you can talk intelligently about isolation levels, do it, but that’s normally not what interviewers expect from newer programmers.

At this stage, interviewers are more interested in more basic things, and the ability to communicate those things clearly.

Like, “Here is the user. Here is the server that sends the website to the user. Here is the database that sits behind the server. Here are arrows to connect them. Now this is a list of APIs that are needed for this problem. And this is a list of tables and columns on the database.”

You can talk about technologies you know that can solve each problem, but be honest about what you know you don’t know. “I think there are databases that are good for caching, but I’ve never worked within them. But they would go in this box here to cache the most popular items.”

Ask questions. Think of an overall system, then break down the problem into small steps, and solve each one in turn. Be sure to solve all of the problem you’re given, don’t forget about anything.

AlphaKeny1
Feb 17, 2006


Awesome, thank you! I'll pick up a copy.

lifg posted:

Since you’re in the newbie thread I’m assuming you’re still very early in your career, so don’t worry too much about Designing Data Intensive Applications. Like, if you can talk intelligently about isolation levels, do it, but that’s normally not what interviewers expect from newer programmers.

Yeah, I have a little over 3 years experience in the industry but most of my time has been front end the past 2.5 years. In interviews I sell myself as like the lead on projects (I work for a big company), which is pretty true. I've worked in ruby on rails and graphql before and took cs classes in uni but nowadays I really don't think I could talk intelligently about designing an actual system. If they want me to design a front end ui and talk about why websockets might be better I'd be fine, but actually handling data and building the db and server... I have no idea.

I think what you're getting at is the best bang for my buck is to understand the high level and the basics, and not worry too much about really diving into individual technologies?

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon

AlphaKeny1 posted:

Awesome, thank you! I'll pick up a copy.

Yeah, I have a little over 3 years experience in the industry but most of my time has been front end the past 2.5 years. In interviews I sell myself as like the lead on projects (I work for a big company), which is pretty true. I've worked in ruby on rails and graphql before and took cs classes in uni but nowadays I really don't think I could talk intelligently about designing an actual system. If they want me to design a front end ui and talk about why websockets might be better I'd be fine, but actually handling data and building the db and server... I have no idea.

I think what you're getting at is the best bang for my buck is to understand the high level and the basics, and not worry too much about really diving into individual technologies?

A system design question might be something like “design a chat program”, which will have frontend and backend components. You should know the basics of the backend, but when you talk about the frontend go ahead and go crazy with trade offs of web sockets v whatever.

AlphaKeny1
Feb 17, 2006

Thank you, that's helpful for me for what I think I should try to cover in my limited time.

wilderthanmild
Jun 21, 2010

Posting shit




Grimey Drawer
If it helps most system design questions I've been asked were focused on designing a slim version of a well known system. Like "how would you design Reddit." with some set of features. Also typically one of the big things interviewers will look at in those is that you're asking the right questions and properly understanding the problem before getting started.

This cheatsheet seemed helpful prepping last time I interviewed https://gist.github.com/vasanthk/485d1c25737e8e72759f

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Reddit is good, I'll have to use that

My favorite one I've been asked is "how would you design a ticket website for the super bowl, assuming there will be a giant instantaneous rush to buy tickets"

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

This is my preferred system design cheatsheet

https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


wilderthanmild posted:

If it helps most system design questions I've been asked were focused on designing a slim version of a well known system. Like "how would you design Reddit." with some set of features. Also typically one of the big things interviewers will look at in those is that you're asking the right questions and properly understanding the problem before getting started.

This cheatsheet seemed helpful prepping last time I interviewed https://gist.github.com/vasanthk/485d1c25737e8e72759f

The initial steps in this one are good - only thing I'd add is to work out what your top level business concepts are near the start (e.g. for a chat app they might be "user", "chat room", "message", depending on requirements)


e: reading and understanding this would put you in a good place for the chat room, and similar, questions! https://discord.com/blog/how-discord-stores-billions-of-messages

ime the chat room question is very popular with system's design interviewers, possibly because it's easy to explain but has some challenging follow up qs.

distortion park fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Aug 26, 2022

Justa Dandelion
Nov 27, 2020

[sobbing] Look at the circles under my eyes. I haven't slept in weeks!

Hey all, I posted here a while ago asking for advice on breaking into software development as a bartender with self-taught coding skills and community college coding certificate. Because of the nature of my recent food and beverage work (currently a beverage director responsible for a department of 89 employees, using product and menu development choices to raise P&L to a very significant degree) I was told not to pursue work as an engineer. I think it was both because I don't have the skills to be a junior dev, and also someone voiced the concern that having a "product manager" title (even if it was in a different industry) and a current department head level role that I would be skipped over as "over-qualified" (I'm definitely not overqualified). The advice was to pursue a product manager role. I've finally shaped up my resume, I'll be working on my LinkedIn next. Looking for internship level roles as I'm technically still enrolled in the local community college and could pretty easily turn the certificate program into pursuing a second bachelors degree in computer science or project management.

Would any of you be kind enough to look at my resume and tell me all the many ways in which I am not good enough?

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP

Justa Dandelion posted:

Hey all, I posted here a while ago asking for advice on breaking into software development as a bartender with self-taught coding skills and community college coding certificate. Because of the nature of my recent food and beverage work (currently a beverage director responsible for a department of 89 employees, using product and menu development choices to raise P&L to a very significant degree) I was told not to pursue work as an engineer. I think it was both because I don't have the skills to be a junior dev, and also someone voiced the concern that having a "product manager" title (even if it was in a different industry) and a current department head level role that I would be skipped over as "over-qualified" (I'm definitely not overqualified). The advice was to pursue a product manager role. I've finally shaped up my resume, I'll be working on my LinkedIn next. Looking for internship level roles as I'm technically still enrolled in the local community college and could pretty easily turn the certificate program into pursuing a second bachelors degree in computer science or project management.

Would any of you be kind enough to look at my resume and tell me all the many ways in which I am not good enough?

I think the first thing to do is take your experience parts out of paragraph mode and make them into bullets.

I've been a product manager for a few years now and can do a bigger write up later about what we're looking for and the specific skills you should highlight.

Key skill being team communication and cross team communication.

Justa Dandelion
Nov 27, 2020

[sobbing] Look at the circles under my eyes. I haven't slept in weeks!

Strawberry Panda posted:

I think the first thing to do is take your experience parts out of paragraph mode and make them into bullets.

I've been a product manager for a few years now and can do a bigger write up later about what we're looking for and the specific skills you should highlight.

Key skill being team communication and cross team communication.

Heard and good call. Thank you! Any insight as to the life of a product manager? Is it grueling and high stress?

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP

Justa Dandelion posted:

Heard and good call. Thank you! Any insight as to the life of a product manager? Is it grueling and high stress?

Probably depends where you work but in my experience it's been a chill job. A lot of meetings but it's mostly coming up with ideas and writing coherent tickets and going over them with your development team.

Romes128
Dec 28, 2008


Fun Shoe
You can absolutely pursue work as an engineer. I had my 15 years of hospitality experience on my resume but didn't make it the focus. Bullet points as Strawberry Panda said.

Oddly enough in almost all of my interviews half the time was spent talking about my experiences working at a hotel, and I used that to talk about dealing with difficult situations, stressful workloads, and stuff like that.

So I would say think of ways to turn your experience into a conversation about how well you do your job. Even if your job was easy, talk it up.

elite_garbage_man
Apr 3, 2010
I THINK THAT "PRIMA DONNA" IS "PRE-MADONNA". I MAY BE ILLITERATE.
re systems design:

I used https://www.youtube.com/c/SystemDesignInterview to prep for some faang onsites and did well. The one thing he doesn't cover is size estimation and schemas for the api calls in the deep dives which you'll probably be expected to touch on. There's usually not enough time in 45 minute-1hr to hit it all so I would just do it on the feature(s) we dove into. Made a ton of flashcards with these and the Vol 1 of System Design Interview

Some supplementary stuff would be System Design Interview Vol 1 & 2 by Alex Xu (Vol 2 is much better about explaining design choices and more in line with systems you'll be asked to design in an interview)

Other resources I found useful are:
https://www.youtube.com/c/TechDummiesNarendraL - Tinder (for studying location based services), Netlifx, whats app (chat). Prob one of my favorites for more detailed systems that don't get overly complex
https://www.youtube.com/c/GauravSensei - Instagram (media and news feed), Tinder (again) His vids are pretty short but don't go into too much depth on why he picked certain technologies. I'd recommend this after you've studied for a bit and understand pros and cons of many of the system design concepts
https://www.youtube.com/c/codeKarle - Hotel reservation, Netflix/youtube and Instagram ones are really good, his architectures get very complex though but it gives you an idea of how to mix in kafka to hydrate other services.

Another tip I have to to get familiar with using excalidraw or whimsical as it's much easier for the interviewer to see rather than handwritten notes. They have libraries you can load with common system design items too (dbs, queues partitions etc) so you don't have to draw them by hand.

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America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.
Has anyone here used Hired to find jobs? I'm currently looking for a Front-End Web job. For me, I think Hired would be useful just to get a larger potential pool of companies I can apply for.

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