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Betjeman posted:That is mental Saylor got ousted as CEO of his own company a few weeks ago for spending too much company money on bitcoins
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Aug 25, 2022 18:10
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Bitcoins are…..batteries?? Digital batteries?? Huh?
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Aug 25, 2022 18:43
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If you squint hard enough and project in the far future, using information as an energy storage medium is theoretically conceivable, so the idea of "digital batteries" is not inherently stupid. However, that does not apply to Bitcoin in any way shape or form. If anything, from that PoV, Bitcoin is possibly one of the most roundabout and miserably inefficient way to go about it imaginable. Aramis fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 18:50
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Gutcruncher posted:Bitcoins are…..batteries?? Digital batteries?? they're antibatteries, they represent a mathematically-defined unit of waste. humanity will develop the blood engine from The Matrix and plug coiners into them until we've extracted enough energy to balance their individual holdings
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Aug 25, 2022 19:01
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Aramis posted:The view I heard on this is that spending electricity on PoW is equivalent to locking gold into Fort Knox. By removing a scarce resource from the world, you transfer that resource's value onto the currency. This is useful when maybe you can't maintain the correct amount of circulating money, either absolutely or because of counterfeits and such. But becomes a burden when it can't maintain the correct amount of circulating money. Bitcoiners like to pretend bitcoin solved this problem with decimal precision but it's actually a structural problem that is still there with miners as the bankers on a fixed income in some Bitcoin based economy. Its really just gold with a new coat of paint that you can't wear or use industrially. So yes, maybe it's not gold. But as a currency it has all the same properties and problems.
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Aug 25, 2022 19:03
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zedprime posted:Its really just gold with a new coat of paint that you can't wear or use industrially. So yes, maybe it's not gold. But as a currency it has all the same properties and problems. A very important property of metallics is that, unless the issuer is cheating, the transformation is reversible, in principle at least. The fact that the power -> Bitcoin conversion is a non-reversible operation makes it a very different beast, and invalidates the comparison entirely IMO.
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Aug 25, 2022 19:15
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Aramis posted:A very important property of metallics is that, unless the issuer is cheating, the transformation is reversible, in principle at least. The fact that the power -> Bitcoin conversion is a non-reversible operation makes it a very different beast, and invalidates the comparison entirely IMO. Metallics are mined and stored in excess of their utility and you would be hardpressed to keep "reversing" the operation past a very early point. I already budged on the base utility but a big point of metallics is to keep making work beyond any useful point.
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Aug 25, 2022 19:22
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HappyHippo posted:How does PoW "back" the crypto price? That doesn't make any sense. Backing was the wrong term. But the point is that the folks with the big mining rigs are the same folks who demand Tether and the other stablecoins turn on the liquidity pump, when they're not the ones running those stablecoins themselves. The cost of PoW provides a point below which mining coins is losing money. Removing that means that coins don't really have a cost, which means it's profitable to sell them at any price, and the only thing keeping the price up is manipulation and belief. PoW maintains a fundamental cost that the price needs to beat, and therefore forces a lot of folks with a lot of skin in the game to manipulate the gently caress out of the market.
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Aug 25, 2022 19:26
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The people most excited about Bitcoin are almost always the ones who understand the least about it.
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Aug 25, 2022 19:33
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zedprime posted:Are you saying you have a productive use for the 140 million ounces of gold in Ft Knox because Uncle Sam would probably be interested in liquidating. Put it this way: I claim that if the cost/value of electricity was to double overnight, it would not cause the price of Bitcoin to raise, but instead would cause the global hashrate to plummet until a new ROI equilibrium is reached, all the while leaving the value of Bitcoin as-is. Obviously, I'm ignoring indirect market-wide disruptions caused by the sudden change in the price of power here. That's not the case for metallics. If the backing metal of a currency shoots up in value, so does the currency. And the difference in reversibility of the operation is something I'd identify as a large contributing factor. Aramis fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 19:35
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Aramis posted:Put it this way: I claim that if the cost/value of electricity was to double overnight, it would not cause the price of Bitcoin to raise, but instead would cause the global hashrate to plummet until a new ROI equilibrium is reached, all the while leaving the value of Bitcoin as-is. Obviously, I'm ignoring indirect market-wide disruptions caused by the sudden change in the price of power here. But Michael Saylor says bitcoin only uses wasted & stranded electricity, how can this be edit: his actual twitter av (click for extra cocaine energy) 
drk fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 19:52
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I m happy believing some japanese autist was annoyed at wire fees when buying model trains from england. All the drugs and rug pull and comedy are just a side effect. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 25, 2022 20:19
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Aramis posted:Put it this way: I claim that if the cost/value of electricity was to double overnight, it would not cause the price of Bitcoin to raise, but instead would cause the global hashrate to plummet until a new ROI equilibrium is reached, all the while leaving the value of Bitcoin as-is. Obviously, I'm ignoring indirect market-wide disruptions caused by the sudden change in the price of power here. The metallics part is just a tautology. If gold goes up, goldbacks go up. If Bitcoin goes up, Bitcoin goes up. There are some differences but you need to compare apples to apples to start. If there is a large power cost shift, Bitcoin miners will find a new equilibrium feeding back from the Bitcoin price and feeding forward on the new rarity of Bitcoin miners. If there is a large hash rate gain in a special sort of hash card, Bitcoin miners will find a new equilibrium feeding back from the new prevalence of rash rate and feeding forward to the Bitcoin price. But gold has similar affinities. If there is a large mining equipment cost shift, gold miners will find a new equilibrium feeding back from the gold price and feeding forward on the new rarity of gold. If there is a large revolution in mine geology making gold very easy to find, gold miners will find a new equilibrium feeding back from the new prevalence of easy gold in the ground and feeding forward to the gold price. Like don't get me wrong, if an economist with a shotgun walks up and says "hedge or die" I'm buying the gold. But that's more because there are established gold markets that aren't inextricably linked to North Korea. Its all a bunch of dumb make work at the end of the day though and a better planned society would do without all of it.
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Aug 25, 2022 20:44
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I just love that Pharod from planescape:torment is a real guy and he has spent nine years trying to find his salvation hunting for bitcoins in a landfill somewhere
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Aug 25, 2022 20:55
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zedprime posted:[...] Can you elaborate on this please? By what mechanism does this feed forward to the Bitcoin price? It seems to me like the puzzle difficulty being automatically adjusted so that the rate of mining remains constant regardless of the global hash rate precludes miner behaviour from meaningfully affecting the price beyond providing a hard floor. However, I will gladly agree with "Bitcoin is equivalent to Gold-backed currency in that it suffers from a lot of the same issues that makes the former nonviable in a modern context". The view I'm calling wrong is the one equivocating power spent on bitcoin to locked-away metal in an idealised version of metal-backed currency. Aramis fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 21:00
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guys, guys, guys, creating a house inside a computer is EXACTLY the same as actually building a real house in the real world with real lumber and drywall and shingles and poo poo. buttcoin
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Aug 25, 2022 21:20
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Aramis posted:Can you elaborate on this please? By what mechanism does this feed forward to the Bitcoin price? It seems to me like the puzzle difficulty being automatically adjusted so that the rate of mining remains constant regardless of the global hash rate precludes miner behaviour from meaningfully affecting the price beyond providing a hard floor. 2. Miners can set an order book with a floor, waiting for the market to reach what they consider the fair value, and with deep enough pockets, can wait for it to happen while other miners flake out or join their assessment of price or the other side of the book comes to meet it. My main point on gold is that a vault of gold has as much economic use as a vault of bedrock. It was hard to dig up, heavy, and is sitting in a coffin. Complete waste of time and effort.
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Aug 25, 2022 21:20
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i mean... you could take out loans against that vault of gold, though
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Aug 25, 2022 21:24
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Mozi posted:i mean... you could take out loans against that vault of gold, though
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Aug 25, 2022 21:29
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zedprime posted:You shouldn't be able to. We should discourage it like Bitcoin as economic waste. Whats the rational thing? Sheep?
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Aug 25, 2022 21:38
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So my mom (far right, q-pilled, true believer of all things) stopped over today and was going on and on about this new thing she and my uncle invested in where something magical is supposed to happen on or by September 11th? I started to press her for details but she shut it down (even though she brought it up) because I would “just make fun of her and tell her it’s a scam” (she’s correct that would have happened). Anyway it sounded like they’re just sending money to some guy and not an exchange or anything, and 9/11 (yes I appreciate the irony) got mentioned as a date of importance a couple times. Anyone have any idea what this could possibly be about?
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Aug 25, 2022 22:15
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notwithoutmyanus posted:It's possible. I saw an *enormous* amount of dumps to crypto exchanges tonight, way outside the normal. It could be correlated. 1000 BTC is not a big deal, 7000+ is a big deal and these have been happening a lot lately. just dawned on me could these coins be from the MTGOX bankruptcy pay out that was due this month?
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Aug 25, 2022 22:18
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fullroundaction posted:So my mom (far right, q-pilled, true believer of all things) stopped over today and was going on and on about this new thing she and my uncle invested in where something magical is supposed to happen on or by September 11th? I started to press her for details but she shut it down (even though she brought it up) because I would “just make fun of her and tell her it’s a scam” (she’s correct that would have happened). Just take your parents computers and phones away until sept 12th.
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Aug 25, 2022 22:18
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Uh. So what actually happens is that the price of bitcoin drops below the cost of mining and the miners switch off the least efficient rigs and then the difficulty adjusts a couple's weeks later the cost of mining does not act as some sort of "floor" to the price because that's just as dumb as it sounds also that mining sets a floor price because reasons was the stupidest bitcoiner claim until they came up with the one about the battery
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Aug 25, 2022 22:20
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Buttcoin.
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Aug 25, 2022 22:22
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tango alpha delta posted:guys, guys, guys, creating a house inside a computer is EXACTLY the same as actually building a real house in the real world with real lumber and drywall and shingles and poo poo. nobody could be stupid enough to actually put real money into an nft for real esta-  
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Aug 25, 2022 22:29
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Gutcruncher posted:Just take your parents computers and phones away until sept 12th. This would probably improve my mother’s mental health tremendously
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Aug 25, 2022 22:30
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Complications posted:nobody could be stupid enough to actually put real money into an nft for real esta- “You don’t actually own the property” seems like kind of a big disadvantage to me. I’m not a financial guru on tiktok though so what do I know
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Aug 25, 2022 22:45
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tango alpha delta posted:guys, guys, guys, creating a house inside a computer is EXACTLY the same as actually building a real house in the real world with real lumber and drywall and shingles and poo poo. Sekenr posted:Whats the rational thing? Sheep? Realist capitalist hell world? Commodities need to start as some vessel of utility and remain that way. Anything that can fit into a filing cabinet or can be locked in a vault should be under the utmost regulator scrutiny and discouraged if the hoarding becomes antisocial (gold stores, investment properties, bitcoins) or high risk (weird derivatives, loans on loans etc.). Remaining utility full is important for physical productive assets. If I say yes, sheep are the rational useful investment choice and for some reason everybody listens to me and there's a run in the sheep market, that needs stopped too. Basically just being a civil social society and trying to be productive you know?
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Aug 25, 2022 22:48
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Complications posted:nobody could be stupid enough to actually put real money into an nft for real esta- Advantage: it's crypto, baby Advantage: anyone can invest any amount of money Advantage: it's very flexible Disadvantage: you'll lose all your money That's 3 advantages to one disadvantage so, seems there's only one resolution
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Aug 25, 2022 22:54
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Complications posted:nobody could be stupid enough to actually put real money into an nft for real esta- one day real laws will catch up with digital ones and you'll certainly be rich off all your fake investments.
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Aug 25, 2022 23:01
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if you created a "coin" that was backed by video proof of its backers burning big piles of fiat cash like the KLF, would that be proof of stake or proof of work, or both?
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Aug 25, 2022 23:42
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LifeSunDeath posted:Cocaine is real, and it makes people talk like this. Yeah, I got a def upper vibe from that tweet too
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Aug 25, 2022 23:57
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Complications posted:nobody could be stupid enough to actually put real money into an nft for real esta- It's like a REIT but for marks who want to be stolen from.
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Aug 26, 2022 00:34
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Setting all you money on fire Pros: - Pretty - Warm - Saves money on storage - Anyone can do it Cons: - Stores don't accept money ash as legal tender - Other things may catch on fire - People will think you're insane
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Aug 26, 2022 00:39
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Elias_Maluco posted:I dont think these people understand what is bitcoin and how it works
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Aug 26, 2022 00:44
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cool video about helium network https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDhU295bUv4
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Aug 26, 2022 00:44
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Paladinus posted:Setting all you money on fire i count 4 good and i count 3 bad, so burning money is a good idea better buy some bitcoins
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Aug 26, 2022 00:49
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Paladinus posted:Setting all you money on fire If you took a polaroid of the pile of money as its burning, it would be worth the same amount as the money itself.
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Aug 26, 2022 01:03
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ponzicar posted:If you took a polaroid of the pile of money as its burning, it would be worth the same amount as the money itself. And thus PFts were born, Polaroid filmed trash
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Aug 26, 2022 01:13
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