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All of the comic frame transitions didn't really work but God I appreciate the attempt.
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Aug 27, 2022 01:40
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I did like how Blonski's side sounds reasonable when he just lays it out like that. Like, yeah, the US military gave him an experimental drug that hosed him up.
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Aug 27, 2022 02:48
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Blonsky was pretty clearly a psycho to begin with and if I remember right Ross didn’t give him the Abomination injection, he threatened Stern to get it. But he’s definitely got a reasonable sounding case ahout the Hulk being a threat, Ross stoking him up and ordering him into it, and the psychological affects of the serum based on Banner’s case. It seems like a landmark legal case for the legal culpability of super powered people and political catnip. I wonder what the state of the Sokovia Accords is and if they’ll come up in the series. You think that would be important but it’s been like 10 years since Civil War and I feel like we don’t actually have any indication of it since Infinity War except for a bit of the WandaVision SWORD stuff. I’ve been of the mind that it’s an unenforceable thing in the wake of the Blip and fall of SHiELD. But it would be nice to hear Jennifer explain it’s legal standing. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Aug 27, 2022 |
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Aug 27, 2022 03:00
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I wonder how he and Wong met.
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Aug 27, 2022 03:20
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STAC Goat posted:I wonder what the state of the Sokovia Accords is and if they’ll come up in the series. You think that would be important but it’s been like 10 years since Civil War and I feel like we don’t actually have any indication of it since Infinity War except for a bit of the WandaVision SWORD stuff. I’ve been of the mind that it’s an unenforceable thing in the wake of the Blip and fall of SHiELD. But it would be nice to hear Jennifer explain it’s legal standing. Wouldn't Jennifer have to sign it?
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Aug 27, 2022 03:38
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live with fruit posted:Wouldn't Jennifer have to sign it? As I said, my theory is simply that with the fall of government institutions during the Blip, the shift in public opinion towards the Avengers from Civil War to Endgame, and the increased frequency of emerging super powered peoples the Sokovia Accord is kind of unenforceable as a practical law on individuals. It was meant largely to police the Avengers themselves as an organization and we’ve seen Damage Control and SWORD both abuse power and very ineffectively trying to police supernpowered people. I think the SWORD people even specifically invoked the Accords. So like I dunno. In theory Jennifer would have to register with someone? She’s never actually done any vigilantism so I assume she hasn’t broken any laws. Going after a lawyer working for a major firm with a public persona who is directly related to one of the Avengers who saved the universe is probably not something anyone wants to do. But I’m curious to see if it’s addressed and clarified during the show. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Aug 27, 2022 |
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Aug 27, 2022 03:45
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Bruceski posted:All of the comic frame transitions didn't really work but God I appreciate the attempt. Yeah, the Ang Lee Hulk does a lot of neat stuff, there's a lot of it I like (and damnit, I love those Hulkified lapdogs), but most of the movie just doesn't come together into a decent whole. And that last fight was so dark it was impossible to see anything.
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Aug 27, 2022 03:53
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STAC Goat posted:As I said, my theory is simply that with the fall of government institutions during the Blip, the shift in public opinion towards the Avengers from Civil War to Endgame, and the increased frequency of emerging super powered peoples the Sokovia Accord is kind of unenforceable as a practical law on individuals. It was meant largely to police the Avengers themselves as an organization and we’ve seen Damage Control and SWORD both abuse power and very ineffectively trying to police supernpowered people. I think the SWORD people even specifically invoked the Accords. Actually, the whole premise of the show, that there are tons of superhumans out there, does suggest that the Sokovian Accords are less of a thing.
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Aug 27, 2022 03:55
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live with fruit posted:Actually, the whole premise of the show, that there are tons of superhumans out there, does suggest that the Sokovian Accords are less of a thing. I think there’s a definite theme of Phase 4 that the world is getting a lot more filled with powered people and aliens. And again, I think from a practical place the Sokovia Accords are kind of unenforceable. Does anyone with a power have to register or just people who actively use them? What are the penalties for violating this? Who enforces them? I think you could interpret Damage Controls actions in Ms Marvel and SWORDs in WandaVision as evidence of a very loose and abused interpretation of the Accords. But I think it’s all conjecture and speculation. There’s plenty of laws that are simply unenforced or that are enforced unfairly and inconsistently. And we’re talking about a global treaty being allied locally on individuals. That’s like 20 years of court cases or something. It’s all boring details it makes no sense to dive into in the random crisis movie or tv show. So I think it would be cool if the show ostensibly in part about the actual legalities of the MCU addresses it. We’ll see. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Aug 27, 2022 |
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Aug 27, 2022 04:00
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Bruceski posted:All of the comic frame transitions didn't really work but God I appreciate the attempt. Least favorite part: gamma poodles muscles like this! posted:I did like how Blonski's side sounds reasonable when he just lays it out like that. Like, yeah, the US military gave him an experimental drug that hosed him up.
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Aug 27, 2022 04:37
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You would think that after Endgame the accords would have been lifted. You can't even use the standard "none of this would have happened if it weren't for you super mukmuks" line because even if the stones never made it to earth, Thanos still would have wiped out half the universe, and without the Avengers nobody manages to fix it. That's got to be grounds for waiving the whole thing
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Aug 27, 2022 04:39
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CapnAndy posted:The comic frame transitions were my favorite part! also he's intentionally or not misconstruing events because he and Ross gas each other up on Blonsky taking the super soldier serum the first time and Ross even straight up tells him they put that serum in storage because the side effects are too bad for the army to accept, but Blonsky wants it anyways
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Aug 27, 2022 05:12
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Opopanax posted:You would think that after Endgame the accords would have been lifted. You can't even use the standard "none of this would have happened if it weren't for you super mukmuks" line because even if the stones never made it to earth, Thanos still would have wiped out half the universe, and without the Avengers nobody manages to fix it. That's got to be grounds for waiving the whole thing Thanos wouldn't have snapped in the first place, at least according to the consensus everyone seems to agree to in Endgame, if Steve and co. hadn't run off so that theoretically only strengthens the argument for the Accords.
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Aug 27, 2022 05:12
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I think there's a reasonable argument that the world would lift the Accords after Thanos, during the Blip, or after the Avengers save everyone. Its plausible. But I also think its plausible that there'd be a bunch of people still advocating that there was valid reasoning behind the Accords and that they didn't actually contribute to Thanos or anything anymore than just individual's actions did. I also thinks its possible public will is for lifting the Accords but everyone had bigger poo poo to deal with so there wasn't some global treaty focused on doing it. I also think its possible they're just still there but there's no one to enforce them consistently so you get random agencies like Damage Control and SWORD abusing them for their own agendas. Like I'm not sure anything we've seen gives us a clear indication what the deal is. - Wanda had multiple agencies working to stop her, they invoked the Accords multiple times, and the only reason she didn't get arrested is because who was gonna arrest her? - Falcon, Bucky, and Walker were operating at least in part with the military/government. - Clint and Kate were vigilantes working outside the law. - Spidey was being charged with crimes AND had dealings with still unexplained fake SHIELD agents. - Ms. Marvel was being hunted down by a government agency. - Shang Chi, Strange, Wong, and the Eternals were doing magic poo poo outside the reach of anyone really. So I don't think its really established what the hell the legal situation is. There's plenty of laws that are on the books that are simply unenforced or inconsistently enforced. That feels like a more story rich place to go than just a hand wave explanation that they lifted the Accords sometime off camera. Which again... this would seem like a good place to touch on that stuff both with Jennifer having to reason through new case law and maybe having to deal with it herself. But also I'm fine if it doesn't. Its just something I'm curious to see in places that make sense. live with fruit posted:Thanos wouldn't have snapped in the first place, at least according to the consensus everyone seems to agree to in Endgame, if Steve and co. hadn't run off so that theoretically only strengthens the argument for the Accords. Thematiacally obviously the narrative from Age of Ultron through Civil War to Infinity War and Endgame is that if the Avengers had actually worked together and pooled their information and resources then maybe they would have been able to resolve this poo poo. Like maybe if Nick Fury had just told them all about his beeper they could have had a better shot. But I also think there's obviously arguments to be made that the Accords were never arguing that heroes don't do good things or save the day. Just that they need some oversight so that they don't just go off half cocked and do more damage than they stop. Cap was concerned that the Accords were happening too quickly and would be abused. At the same time the very person who's actions sparked the Accords in the first place went on to do a lot more bad poo poo. So like... there's probably a lot of people on cable news pointing to that as evidence that they're still a valid idea. There's also been super soldier terrorists and the teasing and now promise of a Thunderbolts program. So it doesn't feel resolved to me. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Aug 27, 2022 |
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Aug 27, 2022 05:20
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The blip never happened. I don't know anyone that was blipped.
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Aug 27, 2022 05:34
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I meant to say... there's definitely people in the MCU insisting that the Blip was fake news orchestrated by Tony Stark and the deep state so they could drink baby blood and continue their pedophile ring or something. If you think people in our world reacts badly to a black Captain America or muslim super hero imagine what they do in the actual world that has them.
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Aug 27, 2022 05:45
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STAC Goat posted:I meant to say... there's definitely people in the MCU insisting that the Blip was fake news orchestrated by Tony Stark and the deep state so they could drink baby blood and continue their pedophile ring or something. Hopefully the New World Order subtitle means he's taking on these kind of nuts and not an actual New World Order.
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Aug 27, 2022 05:47
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live with fruit posted:Thanos wouldn't have snapped in the first place, at least according to the consensus everyone seems to agree to in Endgame, if Steve and co. hadn't run off so that theoretically only strengthens the argument for the Accords. I don't follow. Wiping out half the universe was his plan before he even knew Earth existed, let alone the Avengers.
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Aug 27, 2022 05:49
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live with fruit posted:Hopefully the New World Order subtitle means he's taking on these kind of nuts and not an actual New World Order. Hollywood Hogan's not gonna job for Sam Wilson, brother.
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Aug 27, 2022 05:49
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live with fruit posted:Hopefully the New World Order subtitle means he's taking on these kind of nuts and not an actual New World Order. Sam gonna lead a Woke Avengers of Rhodey, She Hulk, The Marvels, and Shang Chi. Crisis on Infinite Earths' Twitters.
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Aug 27, 2022 05:52
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Opopanax posted:I don't follow. Wiping out half the universe was his plan before he even knew Earth existed, let alone the Avengers. Tony blamed Steve in Endgame, saying that they could've stopped Thanos had he been there and Steve doesn't deny it.
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Aug 27, 2022 05:53
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live with fruit posted:Tony blamed Steve in Endgame, saying that they could've stopped Thanos had he been there and Steve doesn't deny it. Ah, right. Well that's a trickier one because the only reason he wasn't there to help was the accords, you could kind of make both arguments there
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Aug 27, 2022 05:57
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live with fruit posted:Tony blamed Steve in Endgame, saying that they could've stopped Thanos had he been there and Steve doesn't deny it. Its debatable if shared resources, information, and a plan of attack would have stopped Thanos. Thor and Fury at least probably should have shared more of their knowledge about intergalactic stuff. But there's a narrative point that Infinity War ends with them losing two battles fought divided worlds away - one offensive and one defensive - and Endgame ends with one united battle that they win.
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Aug 27, 2022 06:04
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They also criticize Thor for throwing his ax into Thanos' chest instead of his head from like a mile away. The Avengers have weird opinions.
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Aug 27, 2022 06:06
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Thanos won because peter quill got emotional
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Aug 27, 2022 06:08
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Again, the point is that they all tried to save the day their own way and they all lost. So they're lashing out at each other. Its guilt and grief.
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Aug 27, 2022 06:08
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STAC Goat posted:Again, the point is that they all tried to save the day their own way and they all lost. So they're lashing out at each other. Its guilt and grief. Neither Steve nor Natasha lash out. They're also the ones who handle it worst. I think we're supposed to think Tony was right.
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Aug 27, 2022 06:11
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They don't lash out because they're not the same person as Tony or Thor. Tony's an rear end. Cap is looking for a way to fix it. That's literally the argument. They're looking for a way to fix things and Tony lashes out and blames them for losing. Accepting that Tony is right is really just accepting his whole egomaniac mindset. The movie doesn't tell us "Tony is right." It literally has him change his mind and go with Steve and Nat's plan.
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Aug 27, 2022 06:32
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Not asking who his seven soulmates are and why he constantly brings them up seems kinda stupid.
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Aug 27, 2022 10:14
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theironjef posted:Seeing a lot of people say the news scene in this episode means that this takes place during Shang-Chi AND that Banner flying off back to Sakaar means WW Hulk is coming, which seems reasonable, but that does leave me wondering how long Shang-Chi was at his dad's house and training with the Ta Lo folks, since that ended with Banner being friendly and full-human again. That would sorta blunt the thrust of a World War Hulk movie, knowing he's just fine and chill again later. the post credit scene of Shiang Chi has Bruce's arm in a sling.
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Aug 27, 2022 12:59
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The bit in Incredible Hulk where Hulk just walks up to Blonsky and then boots him across the field has stuck with me since the very first time I saw it. It's the perfect combination of strength and meanness that I expect from the Hulk. I feel the point of making Civil War a Cap movie from his perspective is so you go in thinking Tony is wrong and maybe if he believed in the power of friendship things wouldn't have gone so bad. It's not Steve's fault Tony is in space when the alien threat arrives as Bruce said he would.
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Aug 27, 2022 13:37
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I can def see Steve being the bad guy from a different perspective. He's the one withholding info from Tony about his dead parents.
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Aug 27, 2022 13:43
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I can imagine if the Sokovia thing has slacked off a bit after all that happened but I’d bet anything that the accords and the DoDC go turbo mode building giant purple robots once more Ms Marvels start popping up everywhere and neighbourhoods are reduced to dust because some poor kid wakes up one day secreting acid clouds and radiation fields.
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Aug 27, 2022 14:19
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Alhazred posted:Not asking who his seven soulmates are and why he constantly brings them up seems kinda stupid. How so? They're just a bunch of random prison fan girls.
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Aug 27, 2022 16:17
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I'm pretty interested in seeing which deep cut characters the seven turn out to be
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Aug 27, 2022 16:19
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site posted:I'm pretty interested in seeing which deep cut characters the seven turn out to be Leapfrog!!
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Aug 27, 2022 16:59
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STAC Goat posted:Like I'm not sure anything we've seen gives us a clear indication what the deal is. Were they really gonna make a guy like Shang-Chi sign something anyway? All hauling him into a police interrogation room and shoving a paper under his nose that says "Reason for Accord Signature Requirements: Really good kicks." Now I'm just envisioning Damage Control knocking on like Iko Uwais' door. "Sir, we've seen The Raid, and it's probably best you come with us for reasons of global security."
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Aug 27, 2022 18:19
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Wong should just be handing out sling rings to everybody. the feds want to arrest you? just dip out
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Aug 27, 2022 18:25
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SonicRulez posted:The bit in Incredible Hulk where Hulk just walks up to Blonsky and then boots him across the field has stuck with me since the very first time I saw it. It's the perfect combination of strength and meanness that I expect from the Hulk. The other reason Civil War is from Cap's perspective is the title of the movie is Captain America: Civil War.
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Aug 27, 2022 19:12
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site posted:Wong should just be handing out sling rings to everybody. the feds want to arrest you? just dip out The Masters of the Mystic Arts are an ancient organization that even Thor didn't know about until 2017. They probably don't even get a poo poo about modern laws.
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Aug 27, 2022 19:18
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